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Ok, I need a definitive answer ;-) The 30-06 is the rifle for North America (have one) The .375 Holland & Holland is “the one rifle for one planet” (have one) The question is what is the African rifle cartridge? The real question is what do I get next? And yes I know I don’t need any more rifles according to my wife, but that never stopped me before. Ps if this is in the wrong topic section, admin please feel free to delete Next? Jordon | ||
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458dia I think the 375 H&H is about as close as you can get to "The African Rifle Cartridge". Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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A bolt gun in 404J or a fine English double in? Maybe 450 3 1/4? Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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458dia, you could run the gauntlet and buy any one of the big bores, but I agree with Mark; hard to beat the .375 H&H. I did watch Aaron Neilson stone a trophy Ele bull on the GHR video series (which by the way is a great series) with his .375 RUM. He was using a Barnes solid and it penetrated the front skull and exited above the right shoulder...impressive for such a pea shooter...lol. Buy what suits you, they all do a job. Good hunting, LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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get a double if your wallet can take it but my "other" rifle after the 375 due to a smaller wallet was a 416 rigby,, and I love it. guess I will stay "bolt trash" you can make more money, you can not make more time | |||
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Good post and a man can never have too many rifles. I have (in larger bore) a .404J,.458WM and a .470 NE and have ordered a .500NE from Peter Nerving. The .458 is a great hitter at close range and has never failed me. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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There is, never was and never will be "too many rifles" in a hunter's selection Only rifles to accompany me to Africa have been a .22-250, a 7mmMag, a .375RUM and a .416Rigby but I hope to take others! | |||
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????? I'm not aware of that... Maybe in RSA? Or Zim? With one or two exceptions, the only 30-06 rifles I've seen around were in the hands of short term visitors (and a guy on a 2-3 years contract with an embassy or NGO is a short-term visitor in my opinion). Almost all the rifles I've seen in the hands of Africans were .375, .404, 9.3 and the like, with a large number of .22. A great deal of old .303 lie around as well. The most common calibers showing up at informal "local" hunts are still the .375 and .458. The 30-06, moreover, is banned in almost all the ex-French colonies (like all so-called "military rounds"). Of course the 7.62x39 is out of the equation. Philip | |||
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Selby's choice- the 416 Rigby says Africa to me, with the 470 Nitro Express close behind. | |||
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The real Rifle of Africa is an open-sighted B-Grade Oberndorf Mauser chambered for the 9,3x62, in my opinion. There were hundreds of them in use before 1939 and they shot tons and tons of big game during the old days in places where people have never heard of a .416 Rigby. | |||
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I suppose we have to define what we mean by African rifle cartridge, all game or the dangerous game, probably we think of the dangerous game in terms of Africa as the plains game are no different than similar animals in other parts of the World, e.g. deer, antelope, pig, etc. There were of course the BP cartridges and then the early nitro cartridges for double rifles but if sticking to bolt action cartridges it would surely have to be the first off the block, real cartridge designed for the dangerous game that came out in 1905, the .404 Jeffery. The 416R, 425WR, 500J, 505G, etc all followed later. The .404 was not just a flash in the pan and went onto be one of the most used and endearing cartridges in Africa and still is. Others gained fame and notoriety through the romantic safari writings of some and the mystique associated with the very big bores although they all did get the job done, but the .404J just quietly worked away in the back ground on the tasks in hand for the hundreds of game rangers and hunters over the last century. | |||
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In the RSA, for many years, the biggest sellers were .303 Br, .243 Win and 30-06 Springfield.  SUSTAINABLY HUNTING THE BLUE PLANET! "Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful, murder respectable and to give an appearence of solidity to pure wind." Dr J A du Plessis | |||
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This is true!  | |||
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Dear 458 For PG would go with one of the following. Open dry land a 300WM For thicker bush areas a 338 Both will work well have taken about 20 game animals with each. I do not hunt Africa with my own rifle. In saying that my 11 year old son shot 5 animals with a 243 last year. Just shown it is not what you use but were you place the bullet. Regards Mark | |||
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Nakihunter here, posting from my wife's account. I have never been to Africa but desperately want to. My rifles for Africa at the moment are 6.5X54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Carbine, 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schoenauer and 9.3X62 Mauser. My next rifle will probably be a Mauser 404 Jeffery (locally built up). If I can afford it I would love to own a double rifle in 450/400 or a 450 NE 3.25inch. | |||
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A double in one of the big nitro express cartridges or a Mauser in .404 Jeffery or .416 Rigby. With those you smell the smoke and dust of Africa! Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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Hello the African members, What about the 7x57 there? Is it commonly used by locals as a general game cartridge as well? Thank you! PH | |||
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Well if I lived in Africa...was involved with hunting and hunted myself...and could only have one rifle...it would be a .416 Remington Magnum. With 2nd choices being .416 Rigby, .375 H&H, or .416 Taylor respectively. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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+1! Even the elephant and hippo are most typically taken with a brain shot, which doesn't require a caliber larger than .30-06. I'd venture to say that a somewhat greater number of elephants have been killed by culling with an FMJ from a .30-06 or .308 than have been taken by hunters with calibers like .458's, .460's, or .470 Nitros. By their nature (and the target they present) buffalo probably merit a larger caliber than nearly any other African game. A .375 is on the lighter end of the spectrum for buff (although many have been taken with lesser cartridges.) Although I've not hunted them, I'm told by those who have that one of the most lead-absorbing species is giraffe. If they had a propensity to run toward you instead of away, then they would merit a very large caliber with a very expansive bullet (assuming the target is the washtub-sized heart). Eland bulls, which are somewhat larger than buffalos, might conceivably take ample lead; but since they're not known for challenging their pursuer a .30-06 will do just fine for them, too. | |||
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I wouldn't know about that, but I do know that Fred Everett used a .30-06 Brno to cull many elephants, using 220 grain solids. And, about 13,000 elephants have been culled in the Kruger park using R1 (FN FAL copy) rifles and FMJ bullets. The stanadrd issue military FMJ was later replaced with a .308" monolithic brass solid produced by the SANParks gunsmiths. I read about this in Bruce Bryden's book. However, Everett was an excellent shot and clearly had nerves of steel and culling in the Kruger was done from a helicopter. But your point is still valid. | |||
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Good posts Alf, sometimes romance & nostalgia obscures facts. Out of Africa:  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Between the 30-06 and 308 for which is ammo more available? SSR | |||
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PLEASE full pics on that rifle PLEASE  SSR | |||
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ALF Thanks much SSR | |||
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Can't argue with any of that or any of ALF's data either...but...if I could only have one rifle and lived in Africa and hunted regular...I would opt for a .416 probably Rem Mag due to availability of ammo. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I am looking at it from what caliber is my best fallback. I would hunt primarily with a 416 like you but if things get tight whats the lowest common denominator and that appears to be the 30-06 to my suprise. I bet most americans would guess the 375 H&H. SSR | |||
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ledvm:  I lived in South Africa most of my life! in 2007 I sold up my own stash of 416 Rem to a shop in Pretoria, (Some of the guys here on AR, who worked there at the time know what I am talking about and will confirm ) At that time there was not a single large gunshop and I'm referring to the big names and importers all the way from Cape Town to Johannesburg who had a single 416 Rem cartridge for sale. There were plenty of Norma 416 Rigby to be had ( at huge prices I must add) but not a single 416 Rem and that included Kalahari arms who for years held the Remington import licence. When last did you go hunting for 416 Rem Ammo anywhere in Africa? or anywhere in the world for that matter ? In spite of it's popularity amongst the AR tribe it is becoming like the dodo...... very dificult to locate! | |||
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Well in that case...I would opt for a .375 H&H. But I have a buddy (a Rhodesian) who is a PH who has a home in Bulawayo and in Jo'berg. He hunts Tz 60% of his time Uganda 30% of his time and Zim the rest. He wags a custom .416 Rem Mag around most of the time...albeit...he does not use much ammo. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I think I could be comfortable enough with the .375 H&H for all of my African hunting but I dread the thought of not being able to use my .416 Taylor or .458 Lott if the situation warranted it. Speaking strictly in quantity, I think I saw more 7.62x39 weapons in Africa than any other caliber and I understand that those are being used daily to bring down game of all sizes.  . | |||
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I bought the 416 rigby based largely on input from members on this site and it was because "they" said you could find ammo in most countries in Africa for a 416 rigby,, plus,, it is somewhat of a nostalgic cartridge from many of the writers,,,,,,plus I didn't have one you can make more money, you can not make more time | |||
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.303 British. I bet that has shot more African game than anything else! | |||
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8x57. Most of the African colonys were German or French. We only hear about the British colonys and British hunters as they use the same language we do. Taylor in his books mentions the natives armed with old mausers, but the SMLE gets very little mention. Add the 8x57 and .303 together however and you probably have the vast majority of animal deaths accounted for. | |||
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for me: 470 NE in a double. 416 Rigby in a quality CRF bolt gun. Rich | |||
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Very cool photographs, ALF. Many thanks! (Love that Mauser .30-06, too, fla3006.) I am surprised that the 9.3x62mm died as you say it did. Did not RWS make and distribute ammunition? It's truly a great caliber, IMHO. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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