Whilst buffalo hunting this season we were presented with this situation...... what would you do??? Brain it or not??

Range is difficult to determine from a photo, and it looks like he's shooting an open-sighted double. I'd pass...following up on wounded Buff is a bit dicey.

With my rifles from the apparent distance, I’d be comfortable taking the shot, but I would leave the decision to my PH.

Lots of other issues go into the call on if it’s a shot attempt or not and that’s what we pay them for.

If the client is confident, I say brain it. I agree though that following in that thick bush would be interesting.

I tried a similar shot two years ago later in the season, when the bush wasn't as thick. Shot a bit too low and missed the brain. Made for an interesting follow-up that thankfully ended in our favor.

What did you guys decide to do in this case?

Hi Richie,

No.

If the shot does not kill, there will be no opportunity for a follow-up shot, even from the DR. Same with the PH. At the shot the Buff will immediately turn left and disappear into the thick overhead bush. The follow-up is not something anyone should be confident of, given the conditions of the bush.

A brain shot on Buff is not easy, even under ideal conditions, which this presentation is certainly not. I would not take the shot on this presentation.

It’s an interesting situation and I think depends on the individual and their confidence levels.
I think if I were personally on the sticks in that situation and felt very confident in the shot, then yes
If not, then certainly no....
I do believe there would likely be a follow up however because even a slight miss I would believe would result in a definite “knock down” (but of course that too depends on the miss and how close)

So....spill the beans Richie...what did happen? I doubt it was a clean brain shot of there wouldn’t be a discussion

Looks risky to me, but in this case the heavy boss is not in the way, and if the distance is as close as it looks, unless the PH had doubts I think I'd take the shot if left up to me!

I have to agree, however, that a follow-up would for sure be a bit dicey in that green!

..................................................................

Let's see the pic of the brained buff!

Pass, to easy to have a wounded animal in very thick cover.

No

I had a PH once put up a 2 inch circle on tree and ask me to plug it at close range. I did.

Later that day he told me to brain a buff that was standing on an anthill 45 yards away in tall grass; he dropped at the shot. PH then said he asked me to shoot the disk to see if I could brain one - he said the tall grass was making life difficult.

Really, is it any different than braining a hippo in the water?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

Really, is it any different than braining a hippo in the water?

Not the shot no. But the consequences of botching the shot and wounding and the potential risk associated, yes.

We have no idea of the distance, but if you are confident enough, shoot him.

Many times I have taken similar shots, but I am using a scope.

Following a wounded buffalo is in a class of its own compared with following a wounded hippo.

I have never followed a wounded hippo, but have heard several stories of it by PHs who have experienced both. And not one of them compared the two as similar.

Funny how we never see Mark Sullivan doing this

From the photo, it looks like you can clearly see his eyes and forehead. The distance looks like it could be less than 20 yards. If that is correct it is a perfect shot in my opinion. I would take it.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
No

Renee could.....

Go for the head shot at that range and the PH be ready for a quick back up shot.

The unfortunate reality is this-

The best shooters are usually not hunters.

The best hunters are usually lousy shooters.

It's a reality that I've seen from Elk camp to bear hunting in AK...hunters just don't seem to like shooting all that much unless it's plinking cans with a 22.

I tried to explain true Zero with a rifle once at deer camp and it was like I was speaking a foreign language...holds...windage...slope/angles.

I had one guy say he hadn't shot more than 20 rounds through his rifle in his entire life...and he was in his 40s. He had a wall full of mounted bucks.

That's the reality of the hunting world when it comes to rifle marksmanship.

The shot is going to depend on your zero and how well you know it. When I zero, I walk it out from 25 yards to 200 in 25yd increments, getting data on POI vs POA for each. Then, walk it back doing the same all the way to 25...3 shots at each line.

Then do this for each position you are likely to shoot from.

Then add a 300, 400, and 500 yard shot group to confirm. I usually do these from a bench.

At the end of that, the rifle is zero'd.

It takes a day. It's worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by lockingblock:
The unfortunate reality is this-

The best shooters are usually not hunters.

The best hunters are usually lousy shooters.

It's a reality that I've seen from Elk camp to bear hunting in AK...hunters just don't seem to like shooting all that much unless it's plinking cans with a 22.

I tried to explain true Zero with a rifle once at deer camp and it was like I was speaking a foreign language...holds...windage...slope/angles.

I had one guy say he hadn't shot more than 20 rounds through his rifle in his entire life...and he was in his 40s. He had a wall full of mounted bucks.

That's the reality of the hunting world when it comes to rifle marksmanship.

The shot is going to depend on your zero and how well you know it. When I zero, I walk it out from 25 yards to 200 in 25yd increments, getting data on POI vs POA for each. Then, walk it back doing the same all the way to 25...3 shots at each line.

Then do this for each position you are likely to shoot from.

Then add a 300, 400, and 500 yard shot group to confirm. I usually do these from a bench.

At the end of that, the rifle is zero'd.

It takes a day. It's worth it.

I zero my hunting rifle to be less than 2 inches at 100 yards.

That is it.

I have used it to kill animal at over 500 yards.

Basically one has to know his rifle, and his own abilities, and judging distances.

No magic in that at all.

The range looks very close, many would have head or neck shot plenty of other animals at that range unsupported let alone off a rest. The client has gone to Africa with a double gun to hunt so called dangerous game not rabbits. If he feels confident to take the shot he should. I likely would have pulled the trigger before time for a photo.
If we thought about what happens if the shot is not immediately effective all the time there would not be much game shot.

At least it's not a cow

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
The range looks very close, many would have head or neck shot plenty of other animals at that range unsupported let alone off a rest. The client has gone to Africa with a double gun to hunt so called dangerous game not rabbits. If he feels confident to take the shot he should. I likely would have pulled the trigger before time for a photo.
If we thought about what happens if the shot is not immediately effective all the time there would not be much game shot.

At least it's not a cow

Agreed and a double tap a couple of feet to the right of his nose would slow him down a bit. This would be a good example of where a PH would offer to back up.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lockingblock:
The unfortunate reality is this-

The best shooters are usually not hunters.

The best hunters are usually lousy shooters.

It's a reality that I've seen from Elk camp to bear hunting in AK...hunters just don't seem to like shooting all that much unless it's plinking cans with a 22.

I tried to explain true Zero with a rifle once at deer camp and it was like I was speaking a foreign language...holds...windage...slope/angles.

I had one guy say he hadn't shot more than 20 rounds through his rifle in his entire life...and he was in his 40s. He had a wall full of mounted bucks.

That's the reality of the hunting world when it comes to rifle marksmanship.

The shot is going to depend on your zero and how well you know it. When I zero, I walk it out from 25 yards to 200 in 25yd increments, getting data on POI vs POA for each. Then, walk it back doing the same all the way to 25...3 shots at each line.

Then do this for each position you are likely to shoot from.

Then add a 300, 400, and 500 yard shot group to confirm. I usually do these from a bench.

At the end of that, the rifle is zero'd.

It takes a day. It's worth it.

I zero my hunting rifle to be less than 2 inches at 100 yards.

That is it.

I have used it to kill animal at over 500 yards.

Basically one has to know his rifle, and his own abilities, and judging distances.

No magic in that at all.

Maximum point blank range and minute of chest gets it done...no doubt.

Range seems like 25/30 meters max and for a DR with open sights is fair game.
What's the point of hunting DG if you are uncertain of taking a brain shot on this golden opportunity?

To make any sense of it one has to be prepared for those scenarios upfront and discuss it with PH before the hunt - once on the sticks it is already late. When you have dealt with it in theory it is an instinctive decision not a conscious one...not enough time nore space...if it feels right you take it, if it doesn't - you don't.

Hunting under those conditions won't offer you many more opportunities - even less on a proper Buff like that.

To catch a bull like that at that range in that stance, surely that is the pinnacle of dangerous game hunting, most would stand and shoot but I guess some may crap and run

It is good to have practiced a lot and to be a very good shot but if you want it to be always 100 percent sure then I think that takes all the challenge,and excitement out of hunting.That is hunting-we sometimes shoot and miss.If you want to play it safe all the time then stay home and hunt whitetails.

.

Day 1 - right barrel straight up his nose !

Day 10 - right barrel straight up his nose and have PH put in an immediate back up !

And did the hunter pull the trigger ?

.

Once in Makuti on a double buff hunt we spotted a lone dugga boy about 400yds away in a field of dry grass between some hills.I was asked if I wanted to have a try at taking him.They glassed him and told me he was an old bull with large, polished horns.I said yes.We stalked to within 10yds of him all the while keeping ourselves low in the grass.At one point I lifted my head and saw his head above the grass him looking at me just 10yds away.He was a trophy bull.Immediately they told me to get down and we walked further but he just disappeared.A few minutes later we saw him but he was miles away into the hills and moving fast in that heat.I feel that if I was given the green light and took the shot the moment I saw him I would have had him.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It is good to have practiced a lot and to be a very good shot but if you want it to be always 100 percent sure then I think that takes all the challenge,and excitement out of hunting.That is hunting-we sometimes shoot and miss.If you want to play it safe all the time then stay home and hunt whitetails.

If there is any doubt in my mind I don't take the shot.

I had a similar shot opportunity last year in Tanzania.

We tracked up the Buffalo, got to within 35-40 yards and got busted. The buffalo stood in a very similar position to the picture.

The PH threw up the sticks, waited. He looked at me and I said, I'll pass. He grabbed up the sticks and walked back to the truck giving me shit the whole way back.

I wound up telling him to GFY. He may be a PH but he's not my boss and certainly not my father.

Point is, don't feel pressure to take shots that just don't feel right.

Steve,

That would have been the last time that PH guided any of my clients. As to would I have taken the shot in the original post MAYBE. If the shot was as close as it appears, I was not out of breath, I was completely steady on the sticks and the PH was ready with a follow up I'd probably try it. I think it's another one of those things were you can't be 100% sure what you would do unless you were actually presented with that scenario.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

Day 1 - right barrel straight up his nose !

Day 10 - right barrel straight up his nose and have PH put in an immediate back up !

And did the hunter pull the trigger ?

.

The way I see this shot in the picture is, where the hunters is on the sticks the shot is just under and about two inches to the right of the bulls right eye! Off the sticks this is not a difficult shot with iron sights! A shot on the middle of the nose will exit low and will miss the brain entirely!

................Just one mans opinion!

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It is good to have practiced a lot and to be a very good shot but if you want it to be always 100 percent sure then I think that takes all the challenge,and excitement out of hunting.That is hunting-we sometimes shoot and miss.If you want to play it safe all the time then stay home and hunt whitetails.

If there is any doubt in my mind I don't take the shot.

Absolutely. It's not just your ass that you are taking chances with. You owe it to the animal, Your crew and your self to make the safest cleanest shot you can.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It is good to have practiced a lot and to be a very good shot but if you want it to be always 100 percent sure then I think that takes all the challenge,and excitement out of hunting.That is hunting-we sometimes shoot and miss.If you want to play it safe all the time then stay home and hunt whitetails.

If there is any doubt in my mind I don't take the shot.

Absolutely. It's not just your ass that you are taking chances with. You owe it to the animal, Your crew and your self to make the safest cleanest shot you can.

Jeff

Very true.

But I have seen people screw a shot with the whole animal visible

It is also knowing where to hit the animal!

The number of stories one hears of hunters missing the brain on many animals at close range, including buffalo and hippo!

I know someone who actually shot an animal in the balls!

That is not hard to imagine, but, the animal’s rear end was hidden behind a tree!!!???

I was there, and so were several other people.

Years later, we still have no idea how he managed that incredible feat!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie64:
.

Day 1 - right barrel straight up his nose !

Day 10 - right barrel straight up his nose and have PH put in an immediate back up !

And did the hunter pull the trigger ?

.

The way I see this shot in the picture is, where the hunters is on the sticks the shot is just under and about two inches to the right of the bulls right eye! Off the sticks this is not a difficult shot with iron sights! A shot on the middle of the nose will exit low and will miss the brain entirely!

................Just one mans opinion!

My opinion as well.

.

I had a similar shot on a buff at about 22 yards. I took the shot and hit the buff right between the nostrils. It knocked the buffalo over on his back and I thought the game was over but the buffalo scrambled to his feet and took off. I was stunned until my PH took off after him. It took 3 more shots from my Lott to bring him down. It was quite a hunt!

Last June in Bubye I had the same 20 yard shot with the buff lying down. A group of 3 dugga boys were caught napping. Perfect wind and cover for a great stalk. My PH was comfortable with a brain shot but I waited until he stood up and turned for a good heart/lung shot. Ran 40 yards and died.

Hi All,

Interesting reading all your opinions...

And no sorry I do not have a photo of a brained buffalo!!!!

For those who do not know me I am a PH in Zim, I appreciate all your comments, firstly this bull I have been after the whole year and this was the closest we got to taking him and yes he is still alive!!!!

The range we were at about 30 yards, do I think this shot was possible.....YES very but like many of you have said if the shot is not right that will be one pissed off buffalo with nothing in his vitals.....

Did I trust the clients shooting, YES I did but at the time we got on the sticks the bull did not know we were there and as he was lying down in the grass I thought we would just wait for him to stand up for the "PERFECT" shot, well we all know what 'THOUGHT THOUGHT", the bull went from lying down to MACH 3 in a flash and that was the last time we had a chance at him that hunt.

Hindsight YES we should have brained him as I was confident and the client was confident but it was my call not to shoot and wait, and so I take responsibility for the call, but hey that meant we got to hunt buffalo more!!!!

One thing I will say and I know its hard to talk about every scenario but like many of you have said is to discuss things like this with you PH before hand, especially back up shots as we all know this can be a sore subject to some.

Cheers

quote:

I know someone who actually shot an animal in the balls!

Now, now Saeed, don't start that one again.

Hi Rich! Fun post.

I am the client that did not take the shot.

It's been very interesting and informative to read all your posts. Lots of experience on this forum.

I've replayed this in my mind hundreds of times, wondering if I should have asked Rich to go for the shot. I was steady on the sticks and knew where to shoot, but it's an all or nothing shot. The buff went from invisible, to the head up you see, to GONE in not too many seconds, not a lot of time to contemplate and converse.
I actually felt he was a bit closer than 30 yards!!
So, this is the one that got away. But he gave me a great stalk, a tremendous thrill and a great memory.

We had a lot of great stalks and good times on our hunt.
I later took a very nice old solid bossed Dugga boy.
Thanks Rich !!
Larry

Sounds like an exciting stalk. Truth is, I sometimes hesitate and miss a good shot.