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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Do the SCI awards/record book standards affect your hunting?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Or giraffe.... | |||
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We are just some minority Maybe some won't admit it here but I think we who said we don't, mean we don't " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Two perspectives. Over the years I never had clients that was hunting for the record book. Some of them hunted animals that did qualify for Rowland Ward and/or SCI. I always recommend to them to enter their trophies in the record book because it gives us a record of what animals was hunted in the past that met certain criteria. Some did and some did not. I believe it is all about the hunt and if you are the lucky person to hunt an animal that qualifies, it is your decision to register it or not. On my personal hunts I hunt for meat. The only trophy I have an obsession over is that elusive Kudu bull. I am not looking for inches, I have a specific shape that I am looking for, one day my dream will come true. I also love playing a game with myself, I score the inches and later measure it to see how close I was. I have never entered anything in a record book, if I take a really exceptional trophy I most probably would, but I am not hunting for that. Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips. Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation. Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984 PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197 Jaco Human SA Hunting Experience jacohu@mweb.co.za www.sahuntexp.com | |||
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Those folks are probably too busy pursuing a record book 3 horned golden lesser yak to complete their Middle Asia slam. | |||
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When I shoot the number 1 head, I'll probably submit it. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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SCI is a shit wad group that funds the higher ups from the mentality of the "little people" who must have their name in "the book" even though the book's standards are so low many females can make it in the listings. That said, the book will make good toilet paper on a hunt (a bit scratchy, however). Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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There's no need to sugar coat it, Cal. Tell us what you really think. . | |||
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One may degrade people who hunt that way but I would not judge them as hunters by that.If one is to judge them as inferior they may be in for a surprise some time.Nothing wrong with setting your goals high and going after a big one. | |||
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I have no interest in SCI awards or any other but I do have an interest in what an animal measures just for broadening and improving on my ability to judge trophy quality. I certainly don't run up with a tape measure after the animal is down but after close inspection of an animal, paying the proper respects, and taking pics we usually have a discussion about horn length. I could care less what something measures as long as it's a mature animal but I like to be able to get better at judging stuff. Its unbelievable to me at how quickly Thierry Labat can accurately judge an animal from a quick look and ALWAYS be very close. Especially with all the variables, i.e.: mass, horn curvature/curl whatever. Amazes me every time. | |||
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While i am absolutely opposed to the awards and i don't give a damn if my target makes the book or not, I do see some value in the record book. I have used it as a reference on several occasions . For example , before my first tahr hunt , I used the book as a reference . I had no idea what a big tahr was, what a juvenile was , etc. The record book gave me some idea of what I was looking at. The record book can be a valuable resource. The awards are a major black eye for our hobby. | |||
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Yes, if it was simply the record book for research and scientific purposes then I have no problem with it and would probably enter many of my own animals...but it is so closely associated with the awards and pinnacles that I stay away...far away. | |||
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There is no shame going for the book. For some it simple sets a standard or goal. No need to bash SCI or Rowland Ward and both publications make for interesting reading. Occasionally an outstanding animal will be taken and we all want to hear about it. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I have never entered an animal in the book even thought I have several that would rank pretty well | |||
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1) No 2) No It is rewarding to come across an animal that I'm told would 'make the book' and a stalk is successful, however I'm not into flogging myself over it. Hunting is just as rewarding taking an old animal as it is a trophy. | |||
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I find this thread interesting... I would have thought more members here were entering their animals and participating in some of the reward programs. Or maybe they are just laying low. Each to his own..its just not for me. | |||
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Andrew I agree with you however the one SCI measurement method that does not promote good practice when hunting is for buffalo- just have a look at the pics of the top 10 buffalo and you see 7 odd are terribly young. If only they could put more emphasis on boss or horn girth say 3 inches from the end of the horn . In this way the old dugga boys past their prime would be more sort after! | |||
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For me, the value,if there is any in a record book; is in knowing what a truly mature animal looks like. Two positives in the book, first, one does understand that most of those entries were past the breeding stage. Secondly, they have a place of honor, and with as much dignity in a (generally) humane death, as opposed to being pulled down and eaten by hyenas or a pack of wild dogs. See you all in three days... | |||
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I would submit that AR members are a very small part of the hunting community. Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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Agreed. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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This hits the nail on the head. | |||
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Actually, that is not strictly true. It is great to know what trophies have been shot, by HUNTERS! What made the above true is the fact that SCI created a competition for rich people to glorify themselves. It went so far as they were buying so called trophies from farms and transporting them outside to shoot so they can have their one upmanship! And we all know how THAT has affected SCI among the real hunters. | |||
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SCI, and DSC as an offshoot, merely copied Rowland & Ward in this area. One of those "monkey see, monkey do..." things. | |||
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This is true of many horned species. An oversight that is probably impossible to correct now. It is no error that Buzz does not get clients who do not chase record book spots, nor I. Or that those who do are not posting in this topic. 'They' are a very small minority. Unfortunately if more people did enter their trophies (not for bloody awards) it would be more of a valuable resource for some species. But they do not. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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1) Mass and MATURITY 2) NO! My destination decisions on based on new areas and when available indigenous mature species to the areas. | |||
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We are seeing that trend mate and keeping spreading the word. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I'll be honest and have three in the SCI record book and one in RW (Warthog, Kudu, Waterbuck, Nyala). The one in RW was my very first African species. My wife has 2 recorded in SCI (Springbok, Blesbuck). They were recorded into the books in 2010 and 2011. On our hunt we told them we only wanted mature animals (even though they said we were paying clients and would allow us to take young or old). All those animals harvested were mature. Our PHs' did not pressure us to enter them but, thought it would be a nice thing to do for their business. We were brand new members to SCI at the time. Little did I know my feelings towards them would change dramatically in the following year. I became disillusion with them after seeing the awards issue. The ego trip that comes with the awards is mind-boggling. I can give a rats ass about what level of Platinum Diamond awards someone has. The Pantheon Award! Are you 'F'ing serious!? Someone man up and do away with all those tier level awards. Why can't they just base it on a simple RW, B&C, P&Y, etc? Why can't SCI just target the general hunting public? We let our membership lapse and have no intention of renewing. So, yes. We have book entries but, they are the last. Would I like to? Don't know. Some of our members use it as a reference. I used it because I never hunted Africa before and didn't even know what a 50 inch Kudu looked like. Some on areas and types of environments. I can see it as a educational tool but, the different awards/levels/criteria, etc. is horrible. My wife and I are very fortunate to have hunted RSA twice on our budget. We went again in 2014. My wife took her dream animal during the trip (Common Sable). The weather was horrible for the trip to archery/crossbow hunt. The hunt has us looking for 8 animals but we only taken 3 and we were over the halfway point of the trip. We decided to forgo the rest of our listed animals (halfway through the trip) and go after a Sable. She tried to talk me out of it. She said you won't be able to hunt after this. I was perfectly fine with the decision and told her one day you can repay the favor. Fortunately the winds played right and she took a great Sable with well excellent mass, worn and broken tips. It would rank in the top ten with a crossbow but, it's not being entered. I'm a AR member that has animals recorded in the books but, those days are long gone. MSG, USA (Ret.) Armor NRA Life Memeber | |||
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The SCI must have money to function - especially to pay the high-dollar lawyer fees needed to lobby in our best interests as hunters. We hunters are under attack by the anti's more than ever, indeed we are slowly but surely losing the battle. There is a reasonable $35.00 administrative fee to make an entry into the record book, but the various awards are more expensive and are clearly intended to raise money. Although I find it objectionable, I realize the award fee is basically a money-raising scheme and an unpleasant fact of life these days. Apparently, asking for voluntary donations has failed to fully fund the organization, but I'm not surprised...given our basic narcissistic nature. PS. I also find lawyers objectionable, but also an unfortunate necessity of life on Planet Earth. | |||
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You seem to be confusing the record book with the awards program - they are two separate things. The awards program could be disbanded tomorrow and the record book would still exist - but not vice versa. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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No. Just want a good animal. | |||
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Just like to hunt. Pretty simple. As far as a record book, they would probably misspell my name anyway.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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1. I prefer a representative specimen of the species, but the older the better. Never entered anything for the book though. 2. I'll admit my lifetime goal is to hunt the spiral 9, the original spiral 9, not the SCI spiral horn award. I have a slightly different view of the awards program than most here. One thing about the SCI awards program is that it started with the groupings that hunters started; I'm pretty sure "Big 5" grouping started long before SCI did. Not sure if Tiny 10 and Spiral 9 did. If someone wants to go after one of the awards for the sheer challenge of it, like someone trying to climb Everest, that's a great reason. If they're just doing it to show off for each other I'm against it. Caleb | |||
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I've never paid attention to any of the record books. | |||
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I haven't got as much experience as a lot of you and have never entered anything in the book, although the guy at Skulls Unlimited in OKC said my spotted hyena would have been in the top ten. (After SU got through with her, she looks impressive on my bookshelf) I have always equated the record books to the "Who's Who in America" whatever series of books. Virtually anyone with the cash can get their name in the books. I just like to hunt large animals and take fully mature representatives of a species. However if there is a choice, I will definitely shoot the bigger one. Dick Gunn “You must always stop and roll in the good stuff; it may not smell this way tomorrow.” Lucy, a long deceased Basset Hound " | |||
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Jim: How could anyone at SCI misspell Shootaway? Just wonderin'. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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 Although I do score my trophies just to see what the score is, I have never entered any in the book. I do see some value in the book though in terms of identifying what areas might have good genetics. None of that, however, influences my shoot/don't shoot decision. For me, the only criteria that matters (and I learned this the hard way) is that I feel good about taking the animal - that the hunt required sufficient effort and skill and that the animal was taken in a fair chase manner. Regarding inner circles and all that: I think people buying themselves trophies and publicly lauding themselves is an embarrassment and detrimental to the long-term viability of our right to hunt. USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Not a wit. Although, like most hunters, I would like a very nice trophy, I am more interested in having a really good typical specimen with symmetrical horns/tusks, than a record-book animal with weird horns, broken tusk, etc. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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I'm going on my first safari to the Eastern Cape in June. I'll be bowhunting, and REALLY REALLY want a Kudu and Bushbuck with my bow. Anything else will just be icing on the cake. I don't have an SCI book, don't know the minimums, and won't be basing my decision to shoot on that. I will shoot what seems right at the time. I like maturity, length, then mass. I'd shoot a broken-horned massive bushbuck ram in a heartbeat and be damn proud of it. But weirdly, probably wouldn't shoot a broken-horned old kudu. I love to look at a big animal on the wall too If I kill a book qualifier, I frankly don't know if I'll enter it. I've entered several animals in P&Y. I imagine if there's a measurer close by, that I would probably enter the animals into SCI if eligible. We'll see. I just want to have fun and run an arrow through a couple animals. | |||
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I have submitted a few animals to SCI in the past. It wasn't a deciding factor in the animals I shot or passed up...trust me. I entered them for 2 reasons: First, I believe the record books can offer a lot of data for different locations, outfitters and guides that may give you a better opportunity at a mature animal which is representative of the species. Second, PHs, guides and outfitters can refer potential customers to the record books to show them the quality of animals taken in the past. It is a reference only. SCI sends me invites each year offering me the OPPORTUNITY to buy some trophy or another for spiral horned antelope, gold awards, etc. That is all a fund raising scheme that is over the top in my book. Matt | |||
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Have fun on your first safari...and post a hunt report if you'd like when you get back. Also study up on the animals you plan to hunt, field judging them can be quite challenging on your own. Maybe you will have a guide in the blind with you but if you don't it can be confusing. You have the right attitude and thats what makes a good hunt IMO. | |||
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Heym 450/400. . . No problem. I plan to post a hunt report for sure. I don't know the minimums, but I've looked at so many dang pictures in books, magazines and on-line, that I think I can get a reasonable idea of trophy quality. The tough part will be the Cape Kudu. I'm afraid I'll mis-judge one as too small, because most of the pics you see and drool over are aren't the Cape variety. | |||
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