In less than 3 weeks, I am taking a group of 5 VERY excited 1st timers on their 1st Africa hunt.. It is going to be a blast to say the least getting to spend 2 weeks in Africa with some of my best buds in Africa with guns in hand!!

That said, on another site, one of my buds has caught a rash of shit all because he is deciding to take a trip and hunt the EC. It seems that the person who like to dole out the crap like to use the guise that there are little to no native game animals endemic to the region. My bud has taken it all in stride, but in reality, this has just seemed to have gotten under my skin a bit more than it has my bud's!! Why piss on another's parade? Especially a 1st timer's trip? I never understood that mentality.
I know the reason behind the guy is because he has financial ties to Limpopo and likes to downplay any other hunt or area in RSA. I'm only a lurker on that other site, so nothing has been said to the guy..


My bud's list has EC kudu, impala, springbok, heartebeast, black wildebeast, wartie, blesbok.

My personal list for the hunt has the following: Vaal Rhebok, mtn. reedbuck, blue duiker, Cape grysbok, Cape bushbuck, and EC kudu.. If I don't find a super kudu (have 3 great ones already, although not EC variety), I'll try for a gemsbok.

All the other guys who are going all have similar to the 1st list.. Mine is just a bit diff because I've already taken most the species they are hunting.

So can anyone here on AR give us all a breakdown of the truely native species to this region of RSA? I've never been in the Cape at all, so this hunt is going to be new for all invlolved. I'm just looking forward to seeing a new area that is supposed to be beautiful with good friends and the hopes of making some new ones with the outfit we're hunting with.

With that said, what animals can truely be called native to the EC region? Some are very easy to call non-native such as the red lechwe, giraffe, simitar-horned oryx, fallow deer, aoudad sheep, sable, roan, etc.. I am just not sure as to the species that are on my friends' list are. Some of those on the list have home ranges that come mighty close to the EC area from several diff directions (N Cape, coastal Zulu, etc).

Thanks gents and I look forward to the response.

Of all the animals on your friend's list warthog was introduced to the eastern cape in the early 1980's.

Since then they have become a problem animal in the eastern cape destroying a lot of crops.

The EC Kudu you talk about is still the Southern Greater Kudu (Tragelaphus strepsiceros strepsiceros) in generally they are smaller in body size and horn size than what is found in the Limpopo province but I have seen some big boys coming from the EC.

Same story with the Bushbuck (Tragelapus scriptus sylvaticus)

Gemsbok is an introduced species to the EC.

Enjoy the hunt with your friends and very minute of the trip...

I would not let it worry me. I love hog hunting and they aren't native to Texas.

Good luck and enjoy your safari.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:


That said, on another site, one of my buds has caught a rash of shit all because he is deciding to take a trip and hunt the EC. It seems that the person who like to dole out the crap like to use the guise that there are little to no native game animals endemic to the region. My bud has taken it all in stride, but in reality, this has just seemed to have gotten under my skin a bit more than it has my bud's!! Why piss on another's parade? Especially a 1st timer's trip? I never understood that mentality.

Would you still have trouble understanding "that mentality" if the poster in question was warning someone who was talking about heading to SA to hunt lion?

I know it's not the same thing, but some people do feel that there is little difference.

JBrown

weren't lions once found in the Cape as a native species back before whites landed? I'm not sure..

Frankly, I could care less about who wants to chase lions in RSA.. I have no interest in lion hunting at all, and as such, I could care less if you want (can) spend 100K+ in Tanzania, Zambia, etc. or want to be taken out to the back paddock in RSA to blast ol' fluffy head for 15K because either A: it's all you can affrord, B: you are ignorant as to the lion hunting issues in Africa, or C: are just lazy and want easy, assured satisfaction and gauranteed success on your "hunt". It is of little consequence to me.
I'll keep my opinions of lion hunting in Africa from east to west, north to south, to myself..

My question was geared more towards merly eduacting myself as to the species that are endemic to the Cape region. I merely want to know which are/which aren't. I'd take a big gemsbok in the Cape even though he isn't a "native".. same goes for nyala.. That red sand country isn't too far away..same for those thick coastal hills in zululand...close enough for me.
I've taken lots of game in areas they aren't native.. hogs, axis, blackbuck, nligai, auodad, red deer, tahr, chamois, etc.. ALL were great hunts that I'd re-do all over again, given the chance.

The Eastern Cape is a great place to hunt Bush Pig as well if the Outfitter have them available and yes they are native to the EC

Scottyboy

I was speaking about educating a hunter about canned lion, not arguing about lion being native or non-native to an area.

I know that I was not answering your question. Truth is, I don't know about the game in the EC.

I was just trying to point out that the poster in question might have felt he was doing your friend a favor by education him.

I really don't understand how some jerk hunting fenced game in the Limpopo feels the need to rain on someones parade because he may be hunting introduced game in a different area.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

I really don't understand how some jerk hunting fenced game in the Limpopo feels the need to rain on someones parade because he may be hunting introduced game in a different area.

Exactly, amigo!! That's what kinda pissed me off. Hence the question on here.. I just want these guys to have a great introduction to Africa. Hopefully, they'll get the bug too and I'll then have ele and buff hunting partners for future hunts!

The guy was for sure NOT just trying to educate him as to the native/non-native game where we are heading. He was pissing on the parade in a vain attempt at making himself/his operation/area look better.

I lived up in the Limpopo for a year and I saw TONS of non native game taken up there in the course of that year.. Went to lots of game sales and auctions too..went and trapped game and helped move them, etc. so I know full well that the EC isn't the only place that has/hunts non native species..
I've just never been in that part of the country (the EC area), hence my queston as to which species are natives there.

Thanks guys.

quote:

I really don't understand how some jerk hunting fenced game in the Limpopo feels the need to rain on someones parade because he may be hunting introduced game in a different area.

I have to say, I personally prefer hunting the Eastern Cape to the Limpopo. I find that the ranches are bigger down here and the hunting has been less commercialised. YOu find guys who are not just in t for the money and will get some of your best value for money hunting.

Tell you buddy to tell Limpopo guy to "stop being a poes" and "gaan krap in iemand anders se gat" - Translation "stop being a cunt" and "go find another hole to dig in"

Above all tell him to ignore the bullshit, he will have a great hunt down in the EC and you can go after truly free range and Native Springbok, Blesbok, Bontebok, Eland, Kudu, Duiker, Vaal Rhebok, Common Reedbuck, Mountain Reedbuck, Bushpig. Not that I have a problem with Fences at all, but as Ivan Carter mentioned some time back the Eastern Cape is one of the last real wilderness areas in the country(area dependant) and make for some good hard hunting (outfitter dependant).

Now go have your cake, and eat it, and dont let the ever present flies shit on it.
Good luck
Ian

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:

I have to say, I personally prefer hunting the Eastern Cape to the Limpopo.

+1

quote:

The Eastern Cape is a great place to hunt Bush Pig as well if the Outfitter have them available and yes they are native to the EC.

+ 1.

The Eastern Cape is a great place to hunt! Period.

Yes, there are nyala on offer in EC, and a few exotics and introduced species mentioned. But just ignore these and enjoy good hunting there.

Andrew McLaren

Scottyboy, I'm pretty sure I know the site, and the gent you are talking about. You nailed it on the head about him. Just ignore his BS, and go have fun. You and the other guys will forget all about him, when you are there having the time of of your life.

Mad Dog

I like how posters are now putting disclaimers in the posts there about EC hunting and not to piss on their parade.....

As a paying advertiser JJ must get his panties in a wad evertime someone doesn't book with him;asks about another SA outfitter,or posts a glowing trip report with another outfitter....

Good luck to you and your friend.

Scottyboy--The Eastern Cape is a wonderful place to hunt. I'm going back for my third time in October with the same outfitter.

The property we hunt is wilderness, by and large. One of the things I truly like about it is that you can scan the horizon for 360 degrees, and it is rare to see a fence or structure of any kind. If the animals there don't qualify as wild, I don't know what it takes to get the qualification, as they are born and bred on the property.

You and your friends are going to have a great hunt.

Scott,

If your going to hunt introduced species I don't see why hunting a gemsbok in Limpopo is any different than hunting nyala in the Cape. Neither is an indigenous species to that area. I do think a guy going to hunt these areas should be aware of what is introduced and what is not just to have a better idea what he is buying.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Scott,

If your going to hunt introduced species I don't see why hunting a gemsbok in Limpopo is any different than hunting nyala in the Cape. Neither is an indigenous species to that area. I do think a guy going to hunt these areas should be aware of what is introduced and what is not just to have a better idea what he is buying.

Mark

Mark,

Excuse me butting in but I suggest we wish them well (as first timers) and Africa will then be in their blood and we can bleed them dry at a later date - joke.

I read this safari as mates getting together in good country with a few rounds of ammunition and many more of whiskey & beer.

Andrew

Mark
the only species that were mentioned that MIGHT be hunted and are introduced is a gemsbok.. and that was by me. I think the other trophies on my list more than make up for the "non native" moniker the gemsbok has in the EC. All the rest are endemic to the area. The gemsbok is only going to come into play for me if I don't see a kudu that really turns my crank.

And as for the list of species on all the other guy's lists, ALL are native too it seems (hence the question in the 1st place in the original post) other than the warthog (which was a suprise to me).

Andrew has the right idea.. All these guys are 1st timers (minus me). This will be my 6th time across, hence I've been drained many a time over and will continue to be on an annual basis!!

After this trip, I'm hoping these guys will have the bug as bad as I do and will then have some guys who can see the perfectly good reason to drop a seemingly insane amount of cash to chase big critters in up in Zim and beyond. Well worth it, IMO!

The trip that's coming up is more about them having a blast and me drinking their fair share of Castle and watching them take some great heads.

quote:

and watching them take some great heads

'drinking their fair of castle and watching them take some great heads'

Lucky boys and let us hope you get some good hunting in between.

Mad Dog and Disdale... you guys may be onto the right track here.. I'm not mentioning names OR sites!

Sounds like the hunt is going to be a blast.. I have full confidence in the booking agent as well as the outfitter we're hunting with.. Both are class acts and stand up guys.

Guys,

Heavens! Adjust that hair trigger to about 2.5 pounds. As it is your firing with no provcation. I was agreeing that the guy stating that the Limpopo was somehow better than the Cape was basically full of crap. In either area you can hunt a pile of species some of which never occurred naturally in RSA. That is fine in my book but I think as I said that I guy should be aware of what he is buying. There's nothing wrong with being educated about your upcoming hunt. I wish Scotty and his friends only the best on their hunt.

Sincerely,

Mark

No worries, Mark.. I misread your post comepletely. My mistake!

It matters not to me where people hunt, but it should matter to them with enough knowledge about the game they seek to learn about it.

Would you hunt Moose and Dall sheep in florida or texas? It's entirely up t the people with the checkbook and nobody else. It's only fair that your crew understands that the game is primarily introduced and farmed. It's not the same as hunting them in natural wild habitat they belong in.

If that is Okay with the guys going then by all means go have fun. Hundreds of people are doing this in Texas every year hundreds of animals are killed there and they are not there by Gods hand either.

There is nothing wrong with hunting exotics in Texas or Africa. It's just something that is fair for the hunter to fully understand about the trip......right? ??

Some folks would never consider shooting a cape buffalo in Texas as it's just not the same. There are those that if they knew that the game they were hunting was raised/introduced/ bought at auction and released before you arrive would not want that either.

And then some don't really care. It's not "raining on somebodies parade" it's education, how else would anyone now this unless it was pointed out?

There are a lot of outfitters in the EC that offer hunts for about 1/2 of the hunts in the Natural indigenous lands. Why do you think that is?

The answer is right there in front of everyone but it's ignored based on price. You know Steve another PH and frequent poster on both sites said to me one day. This is his quote not mine " nobody hunts the EC because it's good , they hunt there because it's cheap"

Every hunting and safari choice made should come from educated research and knowledge. I was asked,.. and helping to make clear some of the questions on the other site and pointed out the indigenous aspect of the game. If that hurt somebodies feelings then maybe they have their panties in a wad? Are they shopping for the cheapest hunt as the priority. Nothing wrong with that, we all have to live within our means. You will have a great time Shooting your game, everyone does regardless of the Location.

So whats the answer to the original question?

I think that Mad Dog does indeed know the gent in question, and I know that Dinsdale does. I had a couple of email and phone conversations with that lovely chap when I was in the planning stages for my African hunt. I was in the market for a week of plains game and a week of buffalo hunting, and he informed me that buffalo were a hugely overrated game animal that most visiting hunters found extremely disappointing and boring to hunt. I was dumbfounded!

I did A LOT more research, wound up hunting with two fantastic outfits that delivered the goods, in Namibia and Botswana. I even managed to stay awake long enough to get my buffalo!

Enjoy your trip! You know your buddies will.

I'm not going to make a "quote" to answer somebody, but frankly you are full of S**t. People go to Africa, especially on their 1st hunt to experience the "dark Continent". All the species are "native" some where. Ya wanna start a pi**ing match, how about the difference in prices between land owners , and the prices between somebody that "leases" the ground? The game sales at auction, ain't no different than the ones in Texas. Same s**t, different day! So take yer crap and go home! The boys will have a great hunt in the EC. Nuf said!

Mad Dog

Scottboy, all of the species on your friend's list are indigenous to South Africa and many other parts of Africa. They are African animals and he is going to hunt them in Africa.Happy Hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by JJHACK:
Some folks would never consider shooting a cape buffalo in Texas as it's just not the same. There are those that if they knew that the game they were hunting was raised/introduced/ bought at auction and released before you arrive would not want that either.

I guess all the game on your high fenced ranch was born and bred on there? Oh, so it's different to plant native, auction bought, game....

lal

thank you.. In the end, that is what I wanted to know... If the following species were natives to the Cape.. because it was THIS list that was in question on the other site..
East Cape Kudu
Black Wildebeast
Impala
Springbok
Blesbok
Red Heartebeast
Warthog (this one was new info to me about NOT being a native)

The species on my list were chosen because I already knew that they were indeed natives to the area. The only exception being if I decide to take a gemsbok in the place of the kudu (guess I could always start back up putting in for them again in NM!!)

It will be a great hunt with great buds in a great area. I am sure we'll all walk away with some wonderful trophies and some even better memories.
I envy all of them.. Ya only get one 1st time!!

Scottboy my pleasure.I find this very interesting. A couple of years ago I visited the Camdeboo National Park outside Graaff Reinet in the Eastern Cape. I was surprised that the Cape Bushbuck was not on the list of animals found in the Park, yet no more than a couple hours drive away south I have hunted many in the past. Interesting isnt it? Happy Hunting!

I'm headed to the Eastern Cape in August.

Here is what is on my wish list:
Eastern Cape Kudu
Black Wildebeest
Blesbok
Mountain Reedbuck
Springbok
Cape Bushbuck
Cape Grysbok

If a chance presents itself:
caracal and bushpig

I'd consider them all native and won't hesitate to pull the trigger on any of them!!!

Have a great hunt Scottyboy!!! I'm taking two 1st timers myself.

Thanks Gray!!

I may be coming up to CO this Sept to chase muleys with a buddy.. If do, I'll buy ya a cold drink.

Best of luck on your EC hunt in the meantime!

On a side note JJ, I happened to go through your site..

Since when are Nyala, Gemsbok, White Blesbok and common Blesbok native to the Ellisras region? And seeing how you are into education, please do enlighten the rest of us...

Nice hogs taken by your hunters.

What makes you assume that We utilize a single location for anything? We hunt across the country, and have had business on a grand scale in Zimbabwe in the past, and have booked hunts and used Zambia as a resource as well. There is absolutely no limits on where we go for any particular species.

Lephalale/ Elisrass is not but a single one of many locations we utilize with our hunters. In 2009 we had only four hunters shoot less then 20 animals in that area. The remainder of the hunters were several hours away hunting. Funny that an internet chat site would somehow "ASSUME" they have all the inside scoop and details with enough confidence to make such assumptions!

No worries on my end with all of this. Folks that wanna try and bash another business, or guy even with me as the target are fine, Chat away, It's what the internet does best. With this resource try and find a guy that has not had the time of his life hunting with us! There were some too We have had some people that were not at all happy. However they came to drink away from the wife, and it's not easy to hunt successfully starting at noon with a hangover! We have had pushing 500 hunters now in our camps since 1993/1994. Believe me when working with the public I don't care who you are or what business you have you will be challenged when working with the public with so many cultures and countries involved. Add in the "experts on the net" and you can have a never ending level of entertainment thrown in the mix!

I care about the people who have hunted and loved the experience with us, far more then those who have no idea what that was about and want to bash another guy without a single shred of firsthand knowledge. But carry on here as you wish.

IF the thought that all game as long as it's indigenous to earth regardless of where you hunt it is appealing , then they should go forth and be happy with the experience.

I would suggest that the very great majority of folks( hunting with us) are more of the purist personality. They would prefer if going that far to experience Africa to hunt the game where is natural. This conversation comes to me every week with people calling and emailing me. They want a Nyala from Natal, the want Black wildebeest from the Drakensburg, they want Gemsbok from the Kalahari, etc etc.

This is by a large margin the most common request and concern. Even though SA Gemsbok were originally migratory and spent much of their lives between desert and bush. With the roads and infrastructure growing between the natural migration paths and the enormous agriculture in between, millions of Gemsbok have been unable over decades to migrate now.

There are two different kinds of Gemsbok the bush Gemsbok and the Kalahari. All you need to do is learn a bit. and even experience this. Bush Gemsbok are natural in the Northern Province, Kalahari are not. Once you see both it's obvious that the design and evolution of the hooves are completely different. The sand hooves of the kalahari version stand out from the Bush species quite a bit.

Things like this are part of the whole picture. Easy for a "web chat site" to be filled with all knowing experts. Everyone who has been there a single time becomes an expert by web standards! If it were your health involved or a serious legal matter would you get your life and death information from a web chat site? Or would you talk to a guy who has lived and been schooled properly with just shy of two decades of experience in his chosen field for Advice?

There is an enormous need for the EC to remain in business and stay successful. It would be a horrible even disastrous event to eliminate that area or even how they operate. No different then any other business. There needs to be a balance of cost to level things a bit. If they were to change the laws and be exactly like Natal and Limpopo which does not allow the hunting to be conducted as it is in the EC the costs would rise quickly out of control and would make the hunting of plains game priced more in line with Botswana prices.

So the EC is a good thing and offers something that gives people an option. So long as the person going actually understands what is really happening and what exactly he is paying to get. Then it's all good. This has been taken way off the chart out of context. If you were about to spend many thousands of dollars because you did not have all the information wouldn't you have preferred to know all the details?

Maybe not? From the sounds of this thread some would prefer to just be uneducated and go forth blindly with what ever bill of goods that has been offered. Your mileage may vary!

So I'm no expert.....

And with all that...why don't you answer the original question,and educate me (and the OP)?

What are the native game in the East Cape?

And do you go there to hunt them when requested,if there are any?

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
I was in the market for a week of plains game and a week of buffalo hunting, and he informed me that buffalo were a hugely overrated game animal that most visiting hunters found extremely disappointing and boring to hunt.

I haven't been paying enough attention to figure out exactly who you are refering to, but it's fairly obvious that he doesn't offer buffalo and thinks he is losing clients because of this. It is a huge red flag to see so little faith in his own operation. If the operator thinks he runs a second class outfit, you have question why you'd even think about booking with him.

Dean

quote:

Originally posted by JJHACK:
This is by a large margin the most common request and concern. Even though SA Gemsbok were originally migratory and spent much of their lives between desert and bush. With the roads and infrastructure growing between the natural migration paths and the enormous agriculture in between, millions of Gemsbok have been unable over decades to migrate now.

There are two different kinds of Gemsbok the bush Gemsbok and the Kalahari. All you need to do is learn a bit. and even experience this. Bush Gemsbok are natural in the Northern Province, Kalahari are not. Once you see both it's obvious that the design and evolution of the hooves are completely different. The sand hooves of the kalahari version stand out from the Bush species quite a bit.

JJ,

I found this portion of your reply very intersting.

Since I'm obviously a novice about Africa, I'd like for you to teach me something, so I can learn a bit.

You mentioned there are two different gemsbok and their hooves are obviously different. You mention this is because of human expansion and cutting off of natural migration routes. Yet, African growth and infrastructure has only occured within the last 100 years, or so, so much that it might actually inhibit the migration of such species. So, you're trying to tell everyone that so much evolution has occur within the last several decades that hooves of gemsbok have already changed. I find that pill a bit hard to swallow. Maybe it could be that the natural wear of the hooves, sand vs bush life, makes them appear different. Evolution doesn't take place in just a few decades.

So, I'll ask you a question about the following species I intend to hunt in August in the EC.

Which of these are not indigenous to the Eastern Cape?
Eastern Cape Kudu
Black wildebeest
Blesbok
Springbok
Mountain Reedbuck
Cape Bushbuck
Cape Grysbok
Caracal
Bushpig

Also, don't go into any rant about you care about your clients and where they hunt blah blah blah. Just answer the question.

Good luck Graybird!

JJ just because Gemsbok from the Kalahari and Gemsbok from the bushveld differ slightly it does not mean they are a different species. Kudu from various parts around South Africa also have minor differences such as body weight,colour of the coat, horn length as do many other species like bushbuck and springbuck etc. Animals adapt to their environment.

Scottyboy and Graybird, as the agent who booked you both into the EC I can only say have fun, who cares and enjoy the trip. No one need pour rain on anyone's parade. I have no problem making this claim as your agent. You will have the time of your life, period. Don't let anyone ruin it. There are hundreds of years of safari experience on this site and you have heard from many people besides me. Of course I am biased because I represent Kei River Safaris. Andrew is one of the best at what he does and you will see first hand. If the hunt is bad or good I encourage you to report it on these pages. I am confident your experience will be positive. Rarely do I engage in these threads, but I hate to see it when others try to damage the fun of another. Finally, this hunt was set up to give guys a break in this economy and allow them to visit Africa reasonably. Send me photos when you return. I am certain Andrew's and my reputation will be fully intact, and our credibility strengthened by your reports. Thanks for your trust in my business.

Wade Derby
CrossHair Consulting
www.crosshairconsulting.com

Wade..
getting to know you over this past year and a half has done nothing but strengthen my belief that all the guys in my group will enjoy their first trips' to Africa!!
I am looking forward to hunting in a new corner of Africa with good friends with a new outfit that we can hopefully all call friends too.


I have many more trips planned with you (Asia and the great frozen north) in the not so near future!

Wade,

I have no doubt my trip won't be rained on! I just wish it was sooner rather than later!!! But, I'm still having fun with load development at the moment, which is still part of the trip in my opinion.

I just hope JJ hasn't hunted hogs in TX and had fun because that would be a no-no!

Thanks,