I saw this on a commercial. I thought to myself, "That's not cool."

So I went out to their website and there it is in Black and White the same statement. Though it may indeed be historically true, and probably has been done. So what. I personally do not think it is wise. I'm certain a lot of folks here don't think it's a good idea either.

I think it's irresponsible and misleading marketing.

Here's the quote.

quote:

The incredible knockdown power, accuracy and reliability of Brenneke® slugs have been proven around the world...on huge wild boar, European stag, bears, even African buffalo and lion.

Here's the link. Select ENTER on the page to get to the quote.

Brenneke USA

Don't get me wrong, I like shotgun slugs. They are good for some things. But equivalent to a real big bore they simply ARE NOT! I really don't want to hear this quoted as evidence IE. "You don't need a big bore to hunt that stuff if you have Brenneke Slugs"

But because I KNOW some of us ARE gonna hear just that. I thought I'd give folks a heads up.

There is a growing number of Hunters who are taking DG with a muzzle loader. And with the introduction of newer "high powered" muzzle loading rifles, I think we'll see a trend very soon. At close range, I'm not sure (if forced into a choice) I wouldn't opt for a shotgun slug. One of my rigs is a Remington 870 Wingmaster with a Hastings rifled barrel. Shooting Remington solid copper hollow point slugs, this gun kicks a lot harder than a .416, and is serious on large Deer, giving full length body penetration. I'm in no way advocating hunting DG with a shotgun, but I wouldn't fear using a semi-auto on Buffalo. Five shots using solid copper slugs wouldn't be bad??? Interesting point BigGuy. LDK

The Brenneke slugs are very good, as long as they are used for the purpose they were origenally intended! I have a S/S cape gun 8X57JR/16Ga that I use for hogs, and anything up to Moose, and they are flawless, in accuracy, and effectiveness in my gun. However, in Africa, I might follow-up on a Leopard with the Brenneke slugs, and would have no problem with most of the plains game useing this cape gun.

Lion, and Buffalo? Give me a rifle with some poop behind a large bullet, and I wouldn't even think of useing any slug gun on Hippo, Rhino, or elephant.

So I guess what I'm saying with this long winded response is, I love the Brenneke, and it is the only slug I use, but it has it's place, and pointed at a lion , or cape buffalo, ain't that place! Still as you say, some dummy will try it, because Brenneke said someone did it! I look at it like this, you can kill a cape buffalo with a 22 lr, but that doesn't make a 22 lr a cape buffalo chambering!

I don't have any experience in this area i e DG with a shotgun, but if the recoil of my Mossberg 835 shooting 3 1/2 #4 for turkey is any indication wow. I agree with LDK it kicks the snot out of you, yes worse than my 416T.

I'm not taking sides one way or another but, I have seen the results of 12 Ga. slugs fired at an automobile. Three fired at the side of an old "Detroit Iron" completely penetrated side to except the one that hit the offside frame. That's a lot of tough!

I can tell you that rifled slugs in a rifled barrel kick much worse than slugs through a smooth bore. It really torques you and yes, it's worse than big bore rifles. What will really get your attention is shooting turkey loads sitting down against a tree. I like big guns but that just plain hurts.

I used to shoot Brennek slugs through a rifled barrel on a 11-87 Remington. Up until three years ago they were the most crushing, devistating projectile I had ever seen hit flesh. Even more destructive than a .375 H&H I was using around that time. I did not find more destructive power until I purchased a .458 Lott. Many times around the poker table me and buddies still talk about whacking shit with those Brennek slugs. They were down right rude.

i used brennek slugs in my drilling fro many years, on wild boars bears even wolfs in some situations,they penetrate very well,and i cannot think off better slugs,with my 9.3x74r rifle and brennek slugs in other barell makes good combo

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
There is a growing number of Hunters who are taking DG with a muzzle loader. And with the introduction of newer "high powered" muzzle loading rifles, I think we'll see a trend very soon. At close range, I'm not sure (if forced into a choice) I wouldn't opt for a shotgun slug. One of my rigs is a Remington 870 Wingmaster with a Hastings rifled barrel. Shooting Remington solid copper hollow point slugs, this gun kicks a lot harder than a .416, and is serious on large Deer, giving full length body penetration. I'm in no way advocating hunting DG with a shotgun, but I wouldn't fear using a semi-auto on Buffalo. Five shots using solid copper slugs wouldn't be bad??? Interesting point BigGuy. LDK

Not that slugs would be in any way my first choice for DG, I agree wholeheartedly that the Remington Copper Solids are great penetrators. I still have 9 rounds out of the case I bought years ago of the 1 3/8 oz version which is/was the best. Currently only the 1 oz is in production.

My old man killed a big blue wildebeest bull stone dead with a Brenneke slug from his Browning B25. Also, my local gunnie here in Pretoria killed a big buffalo bull stone dead with one Brenneke slug from a Miroku side-by-side in the Luangwa Valley in 1968.

Having seen and hunted the big boys, however, I'll stick to a .404 or .375. I just don't think a Brenneke slug has the all-round performance for a buffalo.

Just my opinion.

I know a hunter who killed several dwarfbuffalos in Cameroun with slugs. And i know a couple of hunters who love to shot slugs on wild boars.

Up until 1980, the only firearms that could be obtained in Rhodesia without alot of paperwork were .22 rifles and singe shot or double barreled shotguns - and a 12g was what most rural peasants owned. American style foster slugs were never available here (I saw one for the first time in 1999 in the USA)- we got brenneke's. I have seen 14-15 lion killed with a shotgun- most with buckshot but a couple with slugs - If the lion is shot from ambush or otherwise taken unawares, a shotgun is (just) adequate. I have also seen several crop raiding elephants bought down with a slug. There was very little 'poaching' by rural peasants until relatively recently- the game they shot was in self defence or in defence of their livestock. Commercial meat poaching took off once .303 rifles were sold off in 1989 - consiquently I never saw a buffalo shot by a tribesman with a 12g, but one idiot did bring one on a bufalo cull. It killed several cows and left two wounded bulls for us parks guys to follow up- that is nearly as good a statistic as the idiot who bought a .22 Hornit...

From side on, a 12g Brenneke is sufficient for a heart shot on lion, buff or ele. It is not a 'stopper', and not the thing to have in your hands should you need to shoot from front on...like facing a charge. Still a brenneke slug beats buck shot any day.

I have shot several black bears with Brenneke slugs, the bears weighing between 300 and 500 lbs. All were one shot kills but one which fell upon being hit in the lungs, got up, was shot again in the same place and duplicated the getting up/getting shot thing once more before dying about 5 yards from the place of the initial shot.

Of the six or seven shots with Brenneke's I've made on bears, none exited, all expanded well and most were under the skin on the far side of the animal. On little whitetails we have here in South Georgia, you always get a shoot through, even if you hit a shoulder, btw.

My slug gun is a 12 gauge 3" Mossberg bolt with a 2.5 Leupold scope and a rifled choke screw-in tube. It is a 3" 100 yard gun.

I think I'll leave it home on my next trip to Africa, though.

Many years ago in Guns and Ammo magazine, John Wooters did a write up on shotgun slugs. There were pictures and a write-up about him killing a Cape Buffalo using slugs from an over/under shotgun. There may have been other African animals he killed with slugs also, but I remember the buffalo.

George Hoffman [of 416 Hoffman fame]killed a cape buff with slugs.

He used the Remington Sabot slugs.

I've never shot a cape buffalo with a shotgun slug or any other shotgun shell, but if a shotgun was all I had in my hands when that need arrived, I'd hope it was stoaked full of Brenneke slugs! I have used Brenneke slugs on a lot of wild hogs up to 300 pounds, and two black bear of about the same weight. They work far better than any shotgun slug I've ever used on game of that size.
I have no problem shooting Cape Buffalo in close quarters with even a little 9.3X74R double rifle, and would take on a charge with a 375 H&H without a peep, but if I had my choice when holding any shotgun, with a lion or a Cape Buffalo that wanted me, show me a good climbing tree!

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
I can tell you that rifled slugs in a rifled barrel kick much worse than slugs through a smooth bore. It really torques you and yes, it's worse than big bore rifles. What will really get your attention is shooting turkey loads sitting down against a tree. I like big guns but that just plain hurts.

Errr...what? F=MV every day of the week, right? I mean, I don't understand how a rifled barrel has any effect on recoil.

First off, I have zero experience on game with Brenneke slugs so I don't pretend to be an expert.

But about 10 years ago I was load testing my 870 Remington 18" smoothbore from sandbags at 100 yards with every slug load I could lay my hands on and had a 3-9 Leupold afixed. I obtained a small supply of Brenneke slugs and noted two things compared to all the other slugs; the recoil was light and they hit ~6 inches lower than everything else. The only conclusion I could draw from this was they were lower in velocity. Whether that translates to better penetration and killing power I cannot attest.

By the way, Remington 2 3/4" 'Sluggers' gave me the best consistent results (about 3" groups)and were the cheapest.

I've subsequently went to a Savage 220 20 gauge and on my first trip to the range it gave me a 3-shot group slightly under 1" with Federal 3" sabots.

Actually, a lower point of impact (at short range) is probably indicative of shorter barrel time ie higher velocity.

I know a guy who killed an elephant with a 12 bore paradox gun, shooting a 750 grain slug at around 1150 fps. Brennekes shoot faster than that, I believe.

I have killed an Eland with a 20 bore paradox gun shooting a 500 grain slug at about 1050 fps.

These large short slugs with their sharp shoulder but a big round hole. The penetration is not the greatest but if you avoid the large bones, they work admirably.

If I were restricted to owning just one gun, it would be a 12 bore rifled choke gun.

JudgeG: Who makes the rifled choke tube you have on your Mossberg? There used to be an outfit called Cation that made these. Heard they were actually quite effective at stabilizing the slug for accuracy purposes.

Actually in the way of penetration and effectiveness you have; the sluggers are the old foster style (soft lead and hollow base), Berennekes (hard cast lead with felt wad attached), then the copper soild sabots (these penetrate like crazy and have wings that expand). Barnes (Federal)and Remington both make the copper soilds. Think X bullet for rifled slug gun. I bought 7 boxes of the Remington Buckhammers. 1 3/8 oz hardcast with a flat point like the northfork or gs design, but I have not been able to shoot them yet.

31/2 and Buckeye...get a copy of WW Greeners book, the gun and its development - I have seen it in the refrence section of several libaries in the USA.

Greener made a very comprehensive study of penetration on elephants and recoil of smooth bore vs rifle. He cocluded (and provides pretty good proof) that a) a smoothbore penetrates better than a rifle - as has more recently been applied to anti tank guns and b) a rifle kicks more than a smoothbore fireing the same charge with the same weight bullet. (and the bullet will end up going slower than out of an otherwise identical smoothbore)

Grecomended smoothbores for elephant- (pre the .450 NE) as penetration with any lead projectile was marginal and you needed every inch of penetration you could get. He built of 50 4 bore's for african and indian use- all were smoothbores. His biggest rifle was a 6 bore uilt for a man named Viljoen in Rhodesia, otherwise his biggest rifles were all 8 bores.

at early 1970s i met a french old timmer which had lived in french african colonies at 1930s. he showed me a kind of brenneke slug loaded shotshells with a steel cap on the top of the slug and said this kind of slugs were made and loaded by brenneke for african use against dangerous game and was called stahlcap brenneke by germans. these slugswere much heavier than normal slugs and loaded to enrgy requried by law for DG hunting. if anyone heard of this or had a picture of one . please send a picture and info,
regards
yes

quote:

Originally posted by 31/2Makesmelaugh:

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
I can tell you that rifled slugs in a rifled barrel kick much worse than slugs through a smooth bore. It really torques you and yes, it's worse than big bore rifles. What will really get your attention is shooting turkey loads sitting down against a tree. I like big guns but that just plain hurts.

Errr...what? F=MV every day of the week, right? I mean, I don't understand how a rifled barrel has any effect on recoil.

See Ganyana's post above. F=MV everyday, but it does not equal felt recoil. There are many factors that contribute to an equal force contributing to unequal felt recoil.

A few common examples, stock drop, stock length, stock cast, F/time - which is why recoil pads work and some work better than others and why an auto, say, shotgun, produces less felt recoil.

For two guns one rifled, one not, but otherwise similar, shooting similar load with equal force, I suspect it is F/time that creates the difference in felt recoil.

JPK

Yes, the is a difference in felt recoil, but actual recoil is not going to be any different.

Having owned two 6 bore rifles and a smooth bore 4, I can tell you...it is alot more fun to shoot a 4 bore with a 2050grn slug and 300grns FFg than it is to shoot a 6 in a rifle with an 1800grn slug and 270grns FFg.

And the one six bore (being a double) weighed more than the 4..which was a single shot, underleaver.

It also makes a considerable difference which way the rifling goes. The Hollis and son had (still has but I have no idea where it is) English left hand rifling. The rifle turns into your face when you fire giving you a hard smack in the teeth. The Greener had right had twist rifling, which turns the rifle away from my face- one hell of a lot more pleasnt to shoot.

True, it is only on 'bore' rifles I have ever noticed the turning effect of big bullets hitting the rifling but it is there to a greater or lesser extent on all rifles. And total free recoil is largely irrelevant. It is speed or recoil or felt recoil that matter to a shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
31/2 and Buckeye...get a copy of WW Greeners book, the gun and its development - I have seen it in the refrence section of several libaries in the USA.

Greener made a very comprehensive study of penetration on elephants and recoil of smooth bore vs rifle. He cocluded (and provides pretty good proof) that a) a smoothbore penetrates better than a rifle - as has more recently been applied to anti tank guns and b) a rifle kicks more than a smoothbore fireing the same charge with the same weight bullet. (and the bullet will end up going slower than out of an otherwise identical smoothbore)

Grecomended smoothbores for elephant- (pre the .450 NE) as penetration with any lead projectile was marginal and you needed every inch of penetration you could get. He built of 50 4 bore's for african and indian use- all were smoothbores. His biggest rifle was a 6 bore uilt for a man named Viljoen in Rhodesia, otherwise his biggest rifles were all 8 bores.

Thanks for the suggestion on the book. I'll give it a read. I'm not educated on a difference between smooth and rifled bores except to say I've shot slugs in both. I do think there is quite a difference in the quality of the slug (projectile) and it was with that in mind that I posted my observations.

Where's Ed Hubbel and his 12ga From Hell when you need him

Here is a great thread on the different variations of shotgun slugs and cartridges designed for bore rifles and paradox guns. It seems that some slugs are designed to be much better medicine for large game than others. All very interesting reading with great pictures to boot!

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...09526&page=4&fpart=1

quote:

Originally posted by the_captain:
Here is a great thread on the different variations of shotgun slugs and cartridges designed for bore rifles and paradox guns. It seems that some slugs are designed to be much better medicine for large game than others. All very interesting reading with great pictures to boot!

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...09526&page=4&fpart=1

That is a very good thread! Thanks!