The Accurate Reloading Forums
Which Scope
26 October 2010, 20:53
h kittleWhich Scope
I have recently acquired a Winchester Model 70 in 416 Remington. I need to put a scope on this rifle. It will be probably be used on an elephant hunt next October.
Any suggestions out there as to what scope I should consider installing. I am leaning toward a Leupold or a Trijjicon.
Thanks
26 October 2010, 20:59
ddrhookbrand is a individual thing but get a low power 1x3 or something like that.
26 October 2010, 21:07
Tracker49I have never had any problems with my Leupolds, and have not used a Trijicon, so am somewhat biased but I can't change from what has served me well over the years.
26 October 2010, 21:19
Stephen PalosGet a Swarovski 1,5 - 6 X 42 and you'll never regret it......
26 October 2010, 21:28
aliveinccI set my 416 Taylor up w/ 2 ready to mount scopes. A 2.5 x 8 Leupold for longer shots and a 1 x 4 Leupold for shorter shots.
26 October 2010, 21:33
LabmanI have a Leupold Vari X III 1.5x5 on my 416 Rigby and it works just fine. So far no problems with it holding up to the recoil.
Tom Z
NRA Life Member
27 October 2010, 00:02
drwesI have a trijicon 1X4 with german style cross hairs,, great in low light,, not a real fan of the accupoint triangle but many here are. Over a 100 rounds with a 416 rigby this summer and no adjustments required so far,, it recently went to Austraila and back and still dead on.
you can make more money, you can not make more time
27 October 2010, 00:05
ivan carterChifuti has several camp rifles for clients use - they have trijicons on them and work well, based on the fact that they are "rentals" they dont get much TLC and they hold their zero well - there is a mixture of reticles so people can choose which they like , german crosshairs seems to be the most popular - all the scopes are 1-4.
27 October 2010, 00:07
larryshoresI have a Swarovski 1.7x10.
Great low magnification field of view with more magnification on the high end than most scopes put on big rifles. It replaced a Leupold 1.5x5. I am very happy with the change.
27 October 2010, 00:11
Die Ou JagterI like Leupold 1X4 on all of my scoped big bores.
27 October 2010, 00:29
safari-lawyerI have a 1.25-4 X 24 Swarovski on my model 70 416. It is mounted in Leupold QR rings. Good buffalo gun and I plan to try it on ellie in July.
Will J. Parks, III
27 October 2010, 00:31
LionHunterI have Leupold 1.5-5x on both my .416Rem and .458Lott, using the illuminated circle/dot reticle. Leupold QR rings. I've tried other brands over the years but always return to Leupold. Outstanding service should it ever be needed, which is unlikely.
Mike
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27 October 2010, 03:09
armorerI concur with Lion Hunter. My .416 Rem. M-70 has a Leupold VX-1 2X7, the less expensive model. Leupold told me the durability is the same regardless of price and a variable as durable as a fixed power. Given that a long shot on dangerous game may be 100 yards, the cost of better optics is moot. Leupold QR rings and bases are rated by Leupold as strong as their dual dovetail model.
27 October 2010, 04:40
JBoutfishnUsing a VX3 1.75-6x32mm on 416 M70 using QR rings. Never a problem.
Jim "Bwana Umfundi"
NRA
27 October 2010, 04:42
dogcatquote:
Originally posted by ivan carter:
Chifuti has several camp rifles for clients use - they have trijicons on them and work well, based on the fact that they are "rentals" they dont get much TLC and they hold their zero well - there is a mixture of reticles so people can choose which they like , german crosshairs seems to be the most popular - all the scopes are 1-4.
During the Boddington on Buffalo video, Chifuti had Swarovski on top of Dakotas or Rugers.
27 October 2010, 05:02
butchlocins the 32-40x range so you can hit the tick on his forehead at 500 yds
27 October 2010, 06:40
retreeverHartley
Seriously, you may want to consider this... Both eyes open and red dot in front of your eyes. 4MOA
http://www.trijicon.com/pdfs/RMR_Specs.pdf Mike
Michael Podwika... DRSS bigbores and hunting
www.pvt.co.za " MAKE THE SHOT " 450#2 Famars
27 October 2010, 07:50
L. David KeithLeupold. After speaking to X test lab, I asked them what scope held up the best in their large bore testing (375 and up). They told me Leupold held up better than all the rest. I tend to agree. Also, your .416 is quite capable of 200 yard shots should you decide to use it for some PG hunting. Your options for power settings do not have to be limited on the lowest power. Many use 1.5-5 or 2-7 power, but if your strictly using it for Elephant, open sights are an option.
LDK
Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris
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Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running......
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27 October 2010, 08:51
Russ GouldI agree, you don't need a scope for elephant ...and it may get in the way. Think about a ghost ring ... fast, works even if your eyes are older than 45, won't break, and it's accurate enough for 150 yard use.
Regarding toughness, there are very few scopes that hold up to a lot of pounding on a heavy caliber. The more complicated/heavier the scope, the more likely it is to break. If you must scope it, think about a fixed power scope eg 1.5x or 3x.
Regarding brands, everyone has an opinion but not too many critics have a statistically significant sample to work with. I don't either. But I did read a very good article in a magazine (NRA?) written by a gunsmith that specialized in heavy cal bolt rifles. He didn't give Leupold an unconditional endorsement, although it and one other were the only two "American" brands he would consider. The brand "Swarovski" was the top of his list, as I recall. Zeiss also.
He also cautioned that whatever the brand, be careful not to clamp the front ring over the objective lens (assuming a straight obj.)
Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns
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27 October 2010, 09:22
jetdrvrquote:
Originally posted by dogcat:
quote:
Originally posted by ivan carter:
Chifuti has several camp rifles for clients use - they have trijicons on them and work well, based on the fact that they are "rentals" they dont get much TLC and they hold their zero well - there is a mixture of reticles so people can choose which they like , german crosshairs seems to be the most popular - all the scopes are 1-4.
During the Boddington on Buffalo video, Chifuti had Swarovski on top of Dakotas or Rugers.
That was before the sponsorship change. I'd wager Chifuti didn't pay for those Trijicons.
27 October 2010, 09:35
surestrike[/QUOTE]
That was before the sponsorship change. I'd wager Chifuti didn't pay for those Trijicons.[/QUOTE]
Careful Jet,
You wouldn't want to bring down the furious and voluminous babbling of Mr. Dave Fulson by uttering the slightest non approved blasphemous remark about the the holiest of safari companies AKA Chifutti.
27 October 2010, 09:37
jetdrvrDave and I have chatted a bit and we got along famously, but you know how sponsors are...
27 October 2010, 11:49
Idaho SharpshooterNot to take sides, but I would wager a reasonably large amount of yankee dollars that if Ivan Carter has a product in his camp he has 100% confidence in its reliability under any conditions. You don't dick around much hunting Elephants these days. Guys here dedicate entire threads trying to figure out what rifle, etc clients are using on TAA every week.
It is always fashionable to play "Connect The Dots" when a product is shown on TV. The other side of that coin is: do you want to know what PH's are using and what works?
This is a "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't." scenario.
Rich
DRSS
27 October 2010, 17:26
R.JollySwarovski Z6i 1.7-10x42. You will never need another scope in your lifetime. It will do everything from driven pigs, through poor light leopard to long range prairie dogs. But take it off for your ele and do it up close.
27 October 2010, 17:53
GunsCoreFor elephant a nice big ghost ring sight works best and can still be used productively by tired eyes. If you have to use a scope, then consider the Leupold Euro 1.25-4 with the bigger 30 mm tube and practice shooting with both eyes open. Good luck on your hunt.
STAY IN THE FIGHT!
27 October 2010, 20:16
ledvmOn my old Model 70 .458 WM...I have a 1.25 X 4 Euro 30 mm scope. But a 1.5 X 5 VXIII would be fine too.
Only get a Leupold and for that rifle one of the above too would be my choices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
27 October 2010, 20:46
ledvmquote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
I agree, you don't need a scope for elephant ...and it may get in the way. Think about a ghost ring ... fast, works even if your eyes are older than 45, won't break, and it's accurate enough for 150 yard use.
Regarding toughness, there are very few scopes that hold up to a lot of pounding on a heavy caliber. The more complicated/heavier the scope, the more likely it is to break. If you must scope it, think about a fixed power scope eg 1.5x or 3x.
Regarding brands, everyone has an opinion but not too many critics have a statistically significant sample to work with. I don't either. But I did read a very good article in a magazine (NRA?) written by a gunsmith that specialized in heavy cal bolt rifles. He didn't give Leupold an unconditional endorsement, although it and one other were the only two "American" brands he would consider. The brand "Swarovski" was the top of his list, as I recall. Zeiss also.
He also cautioned that whatever the brand, be careful not to clamp the front ring over the objective lens (assuming a straight obj.)
I used to have a friend that worked for the OLD Dakota. He tested lots of rifles that came back for accuracy problems.
He told me that the ONLY brand of scope he RARELY saw have problems with on heavy recoiling rifles was Leupold.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
27 October 2010, 22:43
Use Enough GunLeupold 1.5 X 5.
Get something with enough eye relief. Started to put my 1.5 x 5 Swaro. but eye relief not as much as 1.5 x 5 leupold
28 October 2010, 04:48
ivan carterquote:
uote:
Originally posted by dogcat:
quote:
Originally posted by ivan carter:
Chifuti has several camp rifles for clients use - they have trijicons on them and work well, based on the fact that they are "rentals" they dont get much TLC and they hold their zero well - there is a mixture of reticles so people can choose which they like , german crosshairs seems to be the most popular - all the scopes are 1-4.
During the Boddington on Buffalo video, Chifuti had Swarovski on top of Dakotas or Rugers.
That was before the sponsorship change. I'd wager Chifuti didn't pay for those Trijicons.
actually if you watch the video closely , or any of our programs actually the clients featured in those hunts are for the most part using their own rifles and there is a mixture of all kinds of optics on top of the guns - same applies to boddington on leopard , boddington on elephant etc etc - clients hunting with their own rifles exercise their own choices with regard to gun and scope makers -
i dont know who paid for the trijicons that they offer in their camps right now but does that change weather or not they are good scopes
always seems to be an issue with people saying good things about their sponsors products - there would be no TV and very much less dvds without sponsors - personally i like the trijicons , i have been given a few and purchased a few and i am very comfortable recommending them.
(ps trijicons also all have scripture on them next to the serial # which is cool
)
28 October 2010, 07:44
Larry SellersAnd why would ANYONE care whether loaner/renter guns and scopes were purchased, gifted, donated by the manufacturer, donated by a client, traded for a hunt or whatever means by a Safari Company??? It really has no effect one way or the other. I am sure Jdriver and some others will come up with something to say it's illegal!! Geez!!
Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member
28 October 2010, 08:15
trapmonkeyi use the leupold vx 2 1x4 on a 416rig with b square mounts... it has held up well, i hear the trijicons are the new in thing, but until my leupold crashes, i'm not in the market for a new scope
"one of the most common african animals is the common coolerbok(or coleman's coolerbok). Many have been domesticated and can be found in hunting camps, lodges and in the back of vehicles."
28 October 2010, 09:53
jjsquote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
I agree, you don't need a scope for elephant ...and it may get in the way. Think about a ghost ring ... fast, works even if your eyes are older than 45, won't break, and it's accurate enough for 150 yard use.
Regarding toughness, there are very few scopes that hold up to a lot of pounding on a heavy caliber. The more complicated/heavier the scope, the more likely it is to break. If you must scope it, think about a fixed power scope eg 1.5x or 3x.
Regarding brands, everyone has an opinion but not too many critics have a statistically significant sample to work with. I don't either. But I did read a very good article in a magazine (NRA?) written by a gunsmith that specialized in heavy cal bolt rifles. He didn't give Leupold an unconditional endorsement, although it and one other were the only two "American" brands he would consider. The brand "Swarovski" was the top of his list, as I recall. Zeiss also.
He also cautioned that whatever the brand, be careful not to clamp the front ring over the objective lens (assuming a straight obj.)
I used to have a friend that worked for the OLD Dakota. He tested lots of rifles that came back for accuracy problems.
He told me that the ONLY brand of scope he RARELY saw have problems with on heavy recoiling rifles was Leupold.
I have several heavy rifles and over the years had only two scopes fail...both Leupolds, a 2.5x fixed and a 1.5x5...possibly that was just a bad run for Leupold.
28 October 2010, 11:29
FrostbitIf it ends in ski there's no extra fee.
That should be their ad line. Swarovski stands directly behind everything they make and in my experience that doesn't matter whether you are the original owner or not.
That being said I have only ever returned one item to them. A 22 year old pair of binoculars. They sent me a new pair with apologies.
28 October 2010, 12:29
huskyGo for an AIMPOINT Micro T-1
-the best invention since bubble gum.
28 October 2010, 23:20
daleWHunting elephant? consider open sights. you have a year to practice. If you can hit a clay bird size object everytime at 20-70 yards...that is your new scope.
There is no shame hunting with a scope...any of the modern day scopes are excellent...but open sights are better for a number of reasons for big game.
29 October 2010, 00:15
DCS MemberI have a 1.5-6 x 42 Swaro on a rail mount on my .375. If I had to replace it, I would go with the 1.7-10 Swaro to have that extra magnification. Your .416 will also reach out there and you may want to take some PG while over there.
I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills.
Marcus Cady
DRSS
29 October 2010, 01:47
JabaliHunterSwarovski Z6i 1-6x24EE
29 October 2010, 21:11
StonecreekAny form of iron sights are slower and more difficult to use than a properly mounted low power scope.
If you could find one, the perfect scope for anticipated close range large game would be the old fixed power 3X Leupold M8. Watch the premium one brings when one comes up on the market and you'll understand what I mean.
I would agree that if you want a scope that costs less than your hunt your best bet is a Leupold. Anecdotally, there seem to be fewer recoil failures with the older design of the "II" line than with the newer "III" line. However that might well be attributed to more people opting for the more expensive III over the II for their large bore rifles. At any rate, a simple Vari-X II 2-7 has performed flawlessly on my very light weight .375 H&H for the last 15 years and I would not be leery of using the same or similar scope on a .416.
29 October 2010, 22:36
ledvmquote:
Originally posted by Frostbit:
If it ends in ski there's no extra fee.
That should be their ad line. Swarovski stands directly behind everything they make and in my experience that doesn't matter whether you are the original owner or not.
That being said I have only ever returned one item to them. A 22 year old pair of binoculars. They sent me a new pair with apologies.
And Leupold's garantee is even better.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.