Topics such as this make belonging to this forum all worth it...Black female PH questions, misogynistic responses, and Halle Berry fotos are not what I come in here for.

Mark excellent post. Kim, wonderful response. Now my thoughts: When I first got into safari hunting, clothing wise I thought that I had to look like one of those guys from the old day Roosevelt Safaris. That safari bush jacket lasted about five minutes. I took that damn thing off and told myself, "Hell it's time to start hunting." I'm pretty much now an enigma, preferring a line of clothing that suits me and my hunting style. Khaki or brown pants with padded knees for all the crawling.

A bolt and a double on each safari, with a preference to shoot everything with a double when i can. I've found it doesn't matter what gun a hunter carries, shiny barrel, synthetic/wood, duct tape on butt stock, it don't matter! What matters most is that it shoots straight. Become intimate with your rifle and know its tendencies with each load.

Each country and outfitter are different. In Botswana with Johan Calitz, I felt the throwback and entered camp with a more nostalgic approach. In Ethiopia with Jason Roussos, nostalgia got thrown out the door. It was all about climbing hills, keeping up with the the marathon running like Ethiopian trackers and functional gear.

In Tanzania with Gerard Miller and Danny McCallum, it was back to nostalgia, Very old school British-African-Swahili flavored safari; Clean your rifles each nite, campfire every evening/morning and coffee every morning.

So it runs the gamut with me,probably leaning more on the nostalgic side; I've found out in many ways however, the ways of the nostalgic old dudes, don't fit the necessities of modern day hunting, so it's left up to the individual to create what best suits him.

for me its very simple , i want gear that works , if there a choice for a particular piece of gear and both do the same job and one is more traditional , i go traditional ..

truth is traditional gear is not as tough as much modern gear and often not as practical ,

i will never be less comfortable or less prepared just to look right.

wonedr what type of sunblock teddy roosevelt used (i use a 60+ thats meant for babies and comes in a pink and blue bottle !!!!!)

seriously there is some awesome gear out there but there is a lot of marginal stuff too

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
laugh at HD if you will, but check their profitability status with Forbes sometime. In the top thirty every year for Pre and Post Tax profits and PE ratio.
It's why Robbs has all those articles on the rich folks riding Hondas...NOT!!

AZ, I know what you mean about cars; the Panamera is sitting outside right now.

Rich

HD is a marketing machine, no doubt. I guess I get a little tired of the obnoxious noise. Guys who have them think they are cool, but I find HDs just really obnoxious - why do I have to listen to that crap? One city in AZ started writing tickets on HDs because they violated a noise ordinance. Bill C made a comment about loud obnoxious guys in airports talking about how many animals they are going to kill. Same thing.

The bike I prefer is the one you pedal. Better for keeping in shape.

But no doubt, HD is a great company. Struggling a bit lately.

What is a Panamera?

Very often, traditional meant hunting shirtless "a la Sharp"............ and barefoot

Seriously........... once you have had sleeping sickness traditional goes out the window.... Long sleeves, jeans or other tough trousers, broad brimmed hat, good shoes and lot's of Ivan Carter Special baby sunblock!

Oh, I forgot, and one of those hunting belts with a hundred different gadget pouches, "just in case".......

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
Topics such as this make belonging to this forum all worth it...Black female PH questions, misogynistic responses, and Halle Berry fotos are not what I come in here for.

Yes!!! Clearly the off season ridiculousness has started early this year!!!

Brett

Africa is all about the EXPERIENCE. From the attire to the guns, to the airport(s) and all of their "nuances", Africa IS different. If I could get the same experience and satisfaction right here in the states, I wouldn't have gone.....4 times. I've never had a whitetail or mule deer charge...although that might be fun. I HAVE had a buff do that...on my first DG hunt. If all I did was tote my double thru the bush and crawl up to buff, it's an experience that cannot be truly explained to someone who hasn't done it. Somehow wearing my camo outfit and scent-free boots that I wear while deer hunting would seem tremendously out of place in the African bush. I LOVE Africa....and ALL of the experiences...good and bad.....but shorts, gaiters and a good cotton safari shirt are the way to go....thorns, scratches and bug bites be damned!

Haven't tried Ivan's sunblock, though......might be useful in Florida!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

For me, tradition is important as long as it works. My experience is based on two trips to Africa. I prefer shorts, no infections from scratches so far and the tetse bites are not that bad. Shirts are cotton, mostly from Cabelas but I wear UnderArmor tee shirts. Russell boots, wool socks and gaiters from Long Grass. I have one of the Texas Hunt Co belts that I carry a Surefire and Skin so Soft, but I use a leather shellholder on the belt that I prefer. I have a Tilley hat but did not like it in the thick jess, a ball cap worked better. Leica Binos on the "bra" strap. While preparing for the hunt I walked with everything including my double to make sure everything worked and fit Ok after a long day.

For me hunting in Africa is about the whole experience and "looking" the part is part of the experience. I guess I am a modern traditionalist.

IIRC it was Ian Nyschens that wore a lion cloth at times. Now that is a traditionalist.

We can debate this all year, and into 2010 and not find consensus.
Some of us are pragmatic, some are romanticists.
For me, it adds to the joy by dressing the part; and making that link to the great hunters of the past. For others, it seems not to matter.

In the end: just go and have fun hunting the Dark Continent. And start planning the return trip on the long flight home.

Rich

Next time I'm wearing a lion loincloth......I like Ian's thinking. Now is that with or without undergarments?

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
Next time I'm wearing a lion loincloth......I like Ian's thinking. Now is that with or without undergarments?

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Now that is up to you, but that could be a very painful tetse fly bite.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
For me, tradition is important as long as it works. My experience is based on two trips to Africa. I prefer shorts, no infections from scratches so far and the tetse bites are not that bad. Shirts are cotton, mostly from Cabelas but I wear UnderArmor tee shirts. Russell boots, wool socks and gaiters from Long Grass. I have one of the Texas Hunt Co belts that I carry a Surefire and Skin so Soft, but I use a leather shellholder on the belt that I prefer. I have a Tilley hat but did not like it in the thick jess, a ball cap worked better. Leica Binos on the "bra" strap. While preparing for the hunt I walked with everything including my double to make sure everything worked and fit Ok after a long day.

For me hunting in Africa is about the whole experience and "looking" the part is part of the experience. I guess I am a modern traditionalist.

IIRC it was Ian Nyschens that wore a lion cloth at times. Now that is a traditionalist.

I have always worn shorts and not had a problem. I usually wear sneaker type shoes. I am pretty good at avoiding thorns since I spend so much time in the desert.

This is a topic similar to one in the past: what do you wear when you fly?

Anyway, good topic Mark. What is your next good one?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter: This is a topic similar to one in the past: what do you wear when you fly?

I remember this...wasn't it you who said that you wear a "big black velour jump suit with chrome stitching"

Anyone know where I can get a double Terai broad-brimmed felt hat like Philip Percival (and Stewart Granger) used to wear?

Very Important.

I love traditional stuff, BUT first and foremost it HAS TO WORK!!

For example...

I wear Danners on all my hunts from Tanzania buff hunts to Wyoming elk hunts. I have been getting them issued to me for the last 12 years and I have worn them in very hostile environments where an equipment failure can potential cost me a lot more than a trophy fee. I would see no reason to use anything else just "to look the part"

One point I don't think anyone else has brought up is that in MY experience African hunting requires that you have less high speed equipment. Generally speaking you don't deal with extremes in weather or terrain that you may have to deal with in North America. Most animals are shot WELL inside of 200 yards. And most of the terrain ranges from flat to rolling hills at moderate elevation.

You can do just fine in Africa in 95% of the time with cotton clothing, comfortable boots, a brimmed hat or ball cap, a camel-back and a rifle that is effective on the game you are pursuing and a camera.

If you try that on a sheep hunt in Asia or a elk hunt in Wyoming the results will likely range from a failure of a hunt to DEATH!

That said I own double rifles and other such things simply because I wanted one.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
Next time I'm wearing a lion loincloth......I like Ian's thinking. Now is that with or without undergarments?

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Now that is up to you, but that could be a very painful tetse fly bite.

Ouch!!!! I don't even want to think about that!

Brett

Brett......neither do I....scratch the loincloth!!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
When I first got into safari hunting, clothing wise I thought that I had to look like one of those guys from the old day Roosevelt Safaris. That safari bush jacket lasted about five minutes. I took that damn thing off and told myself, "Hell it's time to start hunting." I'm pretty much now an enigma, preferring a line of clothing that suits me and my hunting style. Khaki or brown pants with padded knees for all the crawling. In Botswana with Johan Calitz, I felt the throwback and entered camp with a more nostalgic approach. In Ethiopia with Jason Roussos, nostalgia got thrown out the door. It was all about climbing hills, keeping up with the the marathon running like Ethiopian trackers and functional gear. I've found out in many ways however, the ways of the nostalgic old dudes, don't fit the necessities of modern day hunting, so it's left up to the individual to create what best suits him.

Good response, Moja. Now I'm just trying to decide if you're a 'pragmatic romanticist' or a 'schizophrenic utilitarian'. Whatever it is, it's obviously working for you!

By the way, I'm looking forward to picking up your latest video at the DSC Convention - 'Best of Bwana Moja'. At 3 1/2 hours long, I trust the viewer will be able to see a variety of traditional/contemporary kit options! Will you have a booth in Dallas this year?

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
When I first got into safari hunting, clothing wise I thought that I had to look like one of those guys from the old day Roosevelt Safaris. That safari bush jacket lasted about five minutes. I took that damn thing off and told myself, "Hell it's time to start hunting." I'm pretty much now an enigma, preferring a line of clothing that suits me and my hunting style. Khaki or brown pants with padded knees for all the crawling. In Botswana with Johan Calitz, I felt the throwback and entered camp with a more nostalgic approach. In Ethiopia with Jason Roussos, nostalgia got thrown out the door. It was all about climbing hills, keeping up with the the marathon running like Ethiopian trackers and functional gear. I've found out in many ways however, the ways of the nostalgic old dudes, don't fit the necessities of modern day hunting, so it's left up to the individual to create what best suits him.

Good response, Moja. Now I'm just trying to decide if you're a 'pragmatic romanticist' or a 'schizophrenic utilitarian'. Whatever it is, it's obviously working for you!

By the way, I'm looking forward to picking up your latest video at the DSC Convention - 'Best of Bwana Moja'. At 3 1/2 hours long, I trust the viewer will be able to see a variety of traditional/contemporary kit options! Will you have a booth in Dallas this year?

Not to completely highjack the thread, but Marc was kind enough to send me a copy of this video and I liked it a lot. The "live action" hunting footage is much better in my opinion than "recreated scenes". He also has a leopard hunt in Tanzania with Gerard Miller. The footage from the hunt ranks up there with the Mountain Buffalo DVD footage! Gerard is a cat master and the hunt in itself is worth the price of the DVD! He also has a top ten countdown of his 10 best shots. Holly crap were some of them impressive! Now I think I may have to pick up a copy of his Botswana safari, so I can see a tracking lion hunt!

Brett

Kim: Thanks. Might be in Dallas but won't have booth. Definitely booth in Reno---#1107. Password is "AR" for any member. He or she is entitled to a gift from Sable Trail Productions. (Almost wrote "free gift", but I hate it when I see that in print!) Got the new DVD, book and lifesize Cape Buffalo shooting target available this year.

Idaho Sharpshooter:

I disagreed with you on another thread (about the virtues of the 45-70)but it was only on reading this thread that I realized that you are a romantic. Nothing wrong with that (I think I'm one myself) but you should always realize that you are living in one or two centuries late.

Some good responses to the topic.However I must admit that I am a bit of a romantacist for the old safari traditions.Africa set the trend for what safaris should be all about - remember in the old days it was always about the journey, adventures into the unkown and the experiences that went with it - The modern day hunter seems to have lost these values - where the hunt has now become a shoot, and the success of a safari is judged on the amount of kills in the shortest possible time. Hunting gear and kit has changed a lot over time - however it should still be simple, functional and durable and not a fashion statement. I agree with KPETE camo, and ball caps are not traditional attire in Africa - and I still believe that khaki or green is the practical choice for Africa - it just has the feel of being on safari ! The resurgence in the demand for double rifles has also reawakened the nostalgia in todays hunters of going back in time, and to emulate the hunters of old in their quest for adventure on the dark continent. Long may the tradition be kept alive !
KPETE - Hope you and Claudia are well - look forward to seeing you in Dallas. Will PM you soon.

What Mark said! Plus One!

Rich

I too, am a romanticist, and I love it that way!

I think hunting in Africa has changed the way I hunt here in Texas more than my past hunting experience in Texas has changed how I hunt in Africa. I find myself more in"africa" atire with my posibility bag than I do in Camo now. It seems almost silly now when our band of Texas bubbas head to the deer blinds in all matching camo patterns from hat, jackets to I would bet their skivies just to sit in a deer blind and ride 4 wheelers. Growing up reading the books many of us read to light the flames of our passion for africa,,,,,dressing the part doesn't hurt anything ,,so I guess the hunting shows and books on Africa have influenced my "traditional" kit on all my hunting and the answer is "YES" a traditional kit does add to the enjoyment on safari.

quote:

'pragmatic romanticist' or a 'schizophrenic utilitarian'.

Hmm? That's a tough one Kim? I'm probably the schizophrenic utilitarian. And I must admit as far as safari hunting garb goes, I feel bad about all the shirts I've "de-sleeved", but I just find no usage for sleeves when hunting in thick bush. The thorns ripping into the flesh and scraping across the skin, while more painful, provides quicker passage through vegetation in Africa. The sleeveless look is much quieter too.

There's a belted bush jacket I left snagged somewhere in Limpopo province in 2000 in a sweet thorn bush. I didn't want to rip it, so I just unbelted it and pulled my arms out. Never went back to get it. Never. Had to keep up with the rhino. Don't know how Hemingway hunted in one of those.

The sleeveless safari shirt will be part of the new Bwana Moja safari clothing line. KPete, Brett Adam Barringer, Buzz, Bill C, AnotherAZWriter, and John Sharpe will be my introductory hunting fashion models I use to launch the product. Not available in camo, sorry.

will you issue a set of rippling heavy muscled pec's with each one? John Sharpe's pictures just kill me. He reminds me of Hulk Hogan or the big guy on Dog&Bounty Hunter or whatever it is.

Funny, all the time I spent in Vietnam, and I never once saw a guy rip the sleeves out of a jungle fatigue shirt...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
The sleeveless safari shirt will be part of the new Bwana Moja safari clothing line. KPete, Brett Adam Barringer, Buzz, Bill C, AnotherAZWriter, and John Sharpe will be my introductory hunting fashion models I use to launch the product. Not available in camo, sorry.

I guess I'm going to have to redouble my lifting and swimming efforts with Bill C and John Sharpe bringing the cannons! Which way to the gym?

Brett

the procession of camo'ed urban Texans into rual Texas amuses me every fall.
gotta give the camo compamies credit in their successful marketing.

Tradition is very important for me when hunting in Africa. The experience, the atmosphere, the romance (poetic license, eh?) of safari are just as important for me as the trophies (maybe even more). And since I'm paying for the hunt I'll wear what I want to make me feel that experience. Here's what I wear:



And since I've gotten my zebra, I am entitled to wear a zebra hat band if I want (but I don't).

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:

quote:

'pragmatic romanticist' or a 'schizophrenic utilitarian'.

Hmm? That's a tough one Kim? I'm probably the schizophrenic utilitarian. And I must admit as far as safari hunting garb goes, I feel bad about all the shirts I've "de-sleeved", but I just find no usage for sleeves when hunting in thick bush. The thorns ripping into the flesh and scraping across the skin, while more painful, provides quicker passage through vegetation in Africa. The sleeveless look is much quieter too.

There's a belted bush jacket I left snagged somewhere in Limpopo province in 2000 in a sweet thorn bush. I didn't want to rip it, so I just unbelted it and pulled my arms out. Never went back to get it. Never. Had to keep up with the rhino. Don't know how Hemingway hunted in one of those.

The sleeveless safari shirt will be part of the new Bwana Moja safari clothing line. KPete, Brett Adam Barringer, Buzz, Bill C, AnotherAZWriter, and John Sharpe will be my introductory hunting fashion models I use to launch the product. Not available in camo, sorry.

Sign me up.

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
Brett......neither do I....scratch the loincloth!!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

If you don't scratch the loincloth, you will certainly be scratching something else!
............

Good point Mac!!!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I can't afford to be a traditionalist, so I hunt a Model 70 or a Ruger actioned custom bolt rifle, boots called Silent Stalkers I bought from Cabela's fifteen years ago for deer hunting which give great ankle support and are very quiet, and a leather Boyt cartridge holder that I Lexol the hell out of to keep soft. I hunt in jeans and T shirts if it is temperate or slightly warm or cargo shorts if it's really warm, and I wear a fifteen year old black Patagonia fleece if it is cool. I hunt a battered green boonie hat a PH gave me in the Selous in '05 because the American tradition baseball cap I brought had the tops of my ears frying. It has enough brim to ward off the sun and doesn't get caught in the thorns, most of the time. I don't know how some guys hunt those big, wide brimmed jobs, including you, Ivan...

I'm into hunting, not looking like a fashion plate. I guess I'd like to have a pair of Courtney's but what I have works. Last hunt I couldn't fit my boots into my one suitcase 'cause I was going to be out for thirty days, at least and packed for it, so I hunted a pair of New Balance 974's that I wore over on the plane. No problem.. As Paddy Curtis hunts the African equivalent of Tevas and a pair of cutoffs, I don't feel out of place at all.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
I can't afford to be a traditionalist, so I hunt a Model 70 or a Ruger actioned custom bolt rifle, boots called Silent Stalkers I bought from Cabela's fifteen years ago for deer hunting which give great ankle support and are very quiet, and a leather Boyt cartridge holder that I Lexol the hell out of to keep soft. I hunt in jeans and T shirts if it is temperate or slightly warm or cargo shorts if it's really warm, and I wear a fifteen year old black Patagonia fleece if it is cool. I hunt a battered green boonie hat a PH gave me in the Selous in '05 because the American tradition baseball cap I brought had the tops of my ears frying. It has enough brim to ward off the sun and doesn't get caught in the thorns, most of the time. I don't know how some guys hunt those big, wide brimmed jobs, including you, Ivan...

I'm into hunting, not looking like a fashion plate. I guess I'd like to have a pair of Courtney's but what I have works. Last hunt I couldn't fit my boots into my one suitcase 'cause I was going to be out for thirty days, at least and packed for it, so I hunted a pair of New Balance 974's that I wore over on the plane. No problem.. As Paddy Curtis hunts the African equivalent of Tevas and a pair of cutoffs, I don't feel out of place at all.

I concur. Myself and two friends went in the gear we use during deer season in TX plus a few cold weather items worn in Iowa for our first South Africa hunt.

Our guns were made up of an Encore .300 Win. Mag, a Model 700 .30-06, .30-06 Encore handgun, .308 Encore handgun, .454 Casull revolver and .480 Ruger revolver. Not quite traditional.

I don't feel like I missed out on anything wearing my Bass Pro rain gear and hunting boots. It was the experience and not the gear that has me clammering to head back again in the next couple of years once the bank account is recharged. It is just so invigorating to get to hunt that part of the world with all of the past writings, tv show, etc. What a blast.

Yes, but now you know better! What would you have thought if your PH appeared wearing a Harley-Davidson of Johannesburg T-shirt every morning and Paisley print Bermuda shorts? Oh, yeah, and Argyle socks. Your choice of clothing says much about you. Of course, if you looked like...

Ah, never mind. As has been said, you want the ambience or you don't. I am going in April again, trying not to look too much like I bought my clothes at a Wal-Mart 50% off sale.

Rich

Rich

Rich,

You'd have turned around and gone home if you'd met my PH for my lion safaris in Zambia. Disco shirts(really), cutoffs, bright green ballcap or wide brimmed straw native hat, sandals or tackys. I don't think he owned a pair of socks. Guy worked his ass off on the first 21 days and we had so much fun I booked 34 more days with him.

He learned his trade from old Cotton Gordon who shot a leoaprd off him once. He conducted the last black rhino safari in Zambia and was one Hell of a great guy in the bush. He knew every animal, bird, snake and plant. He was the guy to be in bush with and I would have done anything he told me too. He was that good. He could give a shit about this clothes. He didn't need to impress anybody.

Oh! He was a fat guy and shot a scoped 375 for everything. If this guy doesn't fly in the face of the picture of tradition I don't know who would.

The point is he was very good and that's what counts. All the rest is window dressing.

BTW I bought my safari pants this year at Wal Mart and I think they were on sale.

Mark

To date, I have seen Buzz Charlton and Myles McCallum, whom I hunted with on safari in Zimbabwe. Neither of them had earrings, gold jewelry, sleeveless shirts, sneakers, or any new age garbage. They looked like Professional Hunters! They put on a traditional camp, tents under thatched roofs. Big veranda, eating area, and all the things that make a quality experience.
I like that ambience, and I enjoyed every minute of every day and evening with Myles. I teased him a little about his "small bore RSM in 416 Rigby. He said he didn't need anything bigger since I had my 450 Dakota and 550 Gibbs. Besides, he was out of ammunition for his RSM 458 Lott. The only thing that could have improved that experience was if he had had a big honking Double Rifle. I had so much fun, that I do not see myself going after Dangerous Game with anybody else.

Rich

We had great traditional camp with Paddy and Franco as fantastic hosts. Franco wore kahki pants that made it easier for him to scrape the peppper ticks off with his knife blade. I did wear some green longsleeve shirts on several days because it was cool at 4500 MSL, but safari chic just isn't my bag. I carry a Canon A 620 in a belt pouch, ten rounds of ammo in the Boyt and I wear thick socks with the New Balance shoes to help with the thorns. But jeans are great because they are thorn resistant. I own an expensive pair of Beretta thorn pants, but didn't wear them.

I usually carry an EagleTac flashlight in my pocket in the afternoon in case we get stuck out at night and always, always carry a Swiss Army knife. That is the handiest piece of gear I own, and I have carried one all over the world for 40 years. Never leave home without it.