Chaps,

With the exception of tusk less females what is the pricing for let us say a good bull up to 40lbs and then pricing for safaris for ivory that would go 50 plus. Obviously a real heavy weight would be a bonus to the hunter in this category.

So a non trophy bull of 40 and under and trophy bull of let us say 50 plus.

What is a respectable minimum weight on an elephant hunt and how much does the quality of the hunt count.

I've yet to hunt elephant, so that's a major caveat for all that follows.

It's in the planning stages and has been for years, but keeps getting put off by some opportunity for buffalo in the Selous, or Masailand. So, elephant is probably next for me and I've done a lot of thinking and investigation on this issue.

To me, quality of the hunt, only shooting a truly mature animal and having a legitimate opportunity at a trophy animal are the key. If any one is lacking, I'm gone. I don't want to go on a "community" shoot where they shoot the first bull they see for meat like they conduct in some places in Namibia.

Nor do I want to go somewhere where the hunt is not a tracking hunt. "Spot and track" as I've heard was sometimes conducted (perhaps in the past)in some places in Botswana has little interest to me.

Nor do I want to hunt someplace that has no possibility of producing a "trophy" bull, or where there are trophy bulls, but you can't shoot them if you cut their tracks, as in some places around Kruger in South Africa.

Now what is a trophy? -- we all think in terms of weight and I think that's simplistic, depending on the area. I like Tanzania's system better. As far as weight, most places I'd say 50 pounds is a trophy, but in East Africa, to me, it's really length more than weight that I'm looking for.

Don't know much about elephant hunting in Zambia since it has reopened, but feel free to educate me. Price is a relative thing. I look for value. Definitely not going bargain basement, nor am I looking to be extravagant.

If you've got something you are putting together, I'm interested in hearing about it.

Hi Andrew,

50 pounds is the "magic" number. 50# per side (average) makes the record book and anything under does not. In most of my safari hunting, including elephant, anything under 50# is one fee and anything over 50# is a higher fee, and in many cases the fee rises in 10-15# increments beyond that magic number. It wasn't always this way, but this seems to pretty much be the norm today.

Typically, east african elephant ivory is longer and thinner than that found on southern african elephant, which is shorter and thicker. There is a length requirement in Tanzania. I find any ivory in the 35# and up category to be quite nice and certainly acceptable, especially when broken off. I have never been on an easy elephant hunt, although some are certainly more difficult than others.

I return in August for a ration Elephant.

In Zim, I'd say about 25k, all in, for a hunt with a reasonable expectation of 40 lbs and 50 lbs as a possibility. More like 35-40k in the Zim areas where the large ivory typically comes from.

In Bots and Moz, at least 50k for a hunt where mid 50s per side is the bottom of the range and add another 10k per 10 lbs of ivory on the largest tusk and you are picking in the right patch. Basically, a 100 pounder would be 100k.

I hear there are some special spots in TZ that a well known operator takes his clients for 80 to 90 lbs elephants at 250k per pop.

Quality of the hunt is paramount IMHO. This is more true with an elephant than any other animal. Again, MHO.

Trophy size is relative to area. As far as common language among hunters, 50 lbs is the magic number.

Interesting and I presumed a big tusker would just be a bonus on the hunt.

I have one on quota and Frosbit is having first dibs and I want to be fair on the pricing and whether it be 40 or 100 is irrelevant. I am not pricing to suit the weight of ivory. My Kafue area is small compared to the vast government concessions but we get a constant stream of elephant moving in and out the Park and I have seen what I consider to be big ivory. My offer is rather an upgrade.

I agree with Will on price. In Zim, 25K and up with an expectation of 40lbs +/-. I've only hunted them in Zim so that's what I'm familiar with.

Don't really understand the objection to "spot and track". My hunts in Makuti have been spot and stalk but rest assured, there has been a tremendous physical effort exerted to get a shot. My Bull hunt in Tuli was tracking for the first 3 hours or so until we came upon a small kopje. We climbed it and spotted the herd in the distance and then made a dash to catch them. "Track, spot, and dash" I think you might describe it! The 5 days prior were all tracking.

They have ALL been some of the top hunts I've done with only Buffalo coming close IMO. For me, the hunt was much more important than the Ivory on my bull hunt. I've done 2 tuskless hunts as well and those can be real nail biters because you never know what you're getting into with those cows!

I've got another tuskless booked in Oct. and a bull booked in April. One thing is for sure, I love hunting them!

It seems that Frostbit is getting a heck of a deal! Good deal with lion, and now the elephant. Good on you!

On a more serious note, it seems that most elephant that I have seen as far as trophy (not a big sample, but I was starting to look) seemed to be around $12-15 K for a no sliding scale trophy elephant in areas that have not been proven to have good ivory. This is in Zim/Moz (Tanz is similar, but they really charge for daily rates... as you know)

Given that this is an add on, and that Frostbit tends to do a good job with writing things up (thus, PR) I would think a $18-25K add on to the base safari trophy fee would be what I would think of as "fair"- less than an all in hunt, but more than just a straight TF.

This is probably a bit rich, but Zambia is a bit more expensive as a whole than Zim or Moz. and you also have seen what look like good elephant to you, so that is my minimally educated opinion, for what its worth.

My only objection ot "spot and track" was the custom of spotting a bull at water and "tracking" him until he was a suitable distace to be shot. Does not aound anything like your hunt, Todd.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
My only objection ot "spot and track" was the custom of spotting a bull at water and "tracking" him until he was a suitable distace to be shot. Does not aound anything like your hunt, Todd.

No. Agree with you on that one. I wouldn't want to hunt that way either! I also wouldn't care to do the night thing.

Fairgame,
I have a problem with an incremental price increase for the size of the animal. (any animal) I think it would be great if you fiqure out how much the hunt will cost you, add in the profit you want to make. Then offer the hunt as, were going to kill the biggest elephant we can find. Within reasonable expectations for the area of course. I.E. we should be able to get a 50 pounder but if we run into an 80 pounder it is your lucky day.

quote:

Originally posted by Thunder Head:
Fairgame,
I have a problem with an incremental price increase for the size of the animal. (any animal) I think it would be great if you fiqure out how much the hunt will cost you, add in the profit you want to make. Then offer the hunt as, were going to kill the biggest elephant we can find. Within reasonable expectations for the area of course. I.E. we should be able to get a 50 pounder but if we run into an 80 pounder it is your lucky day.

I absolutely agree with the above post, but we all know that is not going to happen today in most cases. The incremental priceing Was started in Texas, which is all private land, years ago, and It only made me hunt New Mexico where there is 96 million acres of public land!

.......................................................................

I too detest the incremental pricing scheme. The PH doesn't have an investment in growing the elephant to trophy status and didn't work any harder to take him. I beleive you establish the daily rate and pay the government established trophy fee. The only possible additional cost I can see is the cost of recovery.

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
I too detest the incremental pricing scheme. The PH doesn't have an investment in growing the elephant to trophy status and didn't work any harder to take him. I beleive you establish the daily rate and pay the government established trophy fee. The only possible additional cost I can see is the cost of recovery.

The above should therefore apply to Lion as well when the animal is not pen-raised

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
I too detest the incremental pricing scheme. The PH doesn't have an investment in growing the elephant to trophy status and didn't work any harder to take him. I beleive you establish the daily rate and pay the government established trophy fee. The only possible additional cost I can see is the cost of recovery.

The above should therefore apply to Lion as well when the animal is not pen-raised

Trophy fees

2 year old lion - $250,000
3 year old lion - $100,000
4 year old lion - $75,000
5 year old lion - $25,000
6 year old lion and up - $7,000
Pride holding male - $250,000


Is that what you are looking for?

This thread on Elephant is now officially hijacked.

Why don't we try for the two year old?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:


So a non trophy bull of 40 and under and trophy bull of let us say 50 plus.

Do you have 2 elephants on quota this year, Andrew? Are they crop raiders?
If Frostbit doesn't want them, we have to go next week

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Why don't we try for the two year old?

Because we are better than that.

quote:

Originally posted by Caracal:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:


So a non trophy bull of 40 and under and trophy bull of let us say 50 plus.

Do you have 2 elephants on quota this year, Andrew? Are they crop raiders?
If Frostbit doesn't want them, we have to go next week

Reserved.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Why don't we try for the two year old?

Because we are better than that.

Indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
I too detest the incremental pricing scheme. The PH doesn't have an investment in growing the elephant to trophy status and didn't work any harder to take him. I beleive you establish the daily rate and pay the government established trophy fee. The only possible additional cost I can see is the cost of recovery.

Absolutely, and just imagine a safari where your trophies are dictated by the inch or the pound?

As you may or may not know - I just got back from my trophy Elephant hunt in Botswana. I booked it in 2009....It was one of the most rewarding times of my entire hunting career. IF I HAD TO DO IT OVER....knowing what I know now, I would have booked it at twice the price -which is just about what I would have to pay today !!
Sad isn't it. I am glad I got to go once!

As Will (Safari-Lawyer) alluded to above, I see Elephant hunting differently than hunting most other game. To me, the hunt IS THE TROPHY. I don't need to bring home a couple tusks, regardless of size. I'd much rather do 3-4 separate Elephant hunts than put that same money into one "trophy" hunt.
There is nothing quite like it.

that's exactly why i bought Karl Stumpfe's DSC donated non-exportable bull hunt in the Caprivi for this Oct. i could care less how big the elephant is or whether i could bring anything home. THE HUNT IS THE TROPHY! if someone measures the quality of their hunt in ivory poundage- well too bad for them as they are missing what makes an elephant hunt special.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
that's exactly why i bought Karl Stumpfe's DSC donated non-exportable bull hunt in the Caprivi for this Oct. i could care less how big the elephant is or whether i could bring anything home. THE HUNT IS THE TROPHY! if someone measures the quality of their hunt in ivory poundage- well too bad for them as they are missing what makes an elephant hunt special.

Agreed but the trophy fee has to be consideration.

You should be able to secure a Zim bull for 25-28K. Adding larger fees for larger bulls is chickenshit and I won't do it.I consider it the luck of the hunt as to what size you end up with.