Hi all. New to the forum. Lets see what I can do about not making an ass of myself.

A bit of background. Been hunting my entire 31 years on this planet. Pretty much just big game in NH. Have shot 13 whitetails, 8 Black Bear, 2 Moose (yes..won the lotto twice) here in NH. So many coyotes I have lost count..well over 100. The hunting here is all close range stuff..50 yards is a long shot. Have used the same rifle since 16. A savage 340 bolt in 30-30..please don't laugh. Yes..I killed both moose with it..and yes..one shot kills.
So I have finally saved up enough money to start my hunt plans in Africa. And clearly the old savage isn't up to the task. My plans are for some not so common field game..really want a Hyena and a Baboon (lots of baboons actually)..and the more common stuff A Cape Buff, a Leopard, and a Lion. No Jumbo. No plains game except for bait..prefer a Zebra.
Being early March..what better time to get my new rifle in order..use it on deer and blacks this upcoming fall here in NH. And retire the savage. Making this new gun my numero uno. Being as I haven't shot alot of what most would consider hard kickers. Save the scatterguns. I will need some time to get this new rifle under control and test it in the field etc. I don't reload which puts alot of cartridges to rest from the get go. This and my reluctance to beat my fillings loose seems to be a bit of a damper on what to choose.
I am leaning towards a Ruger #1 in 375, or 458. I have a feeling the 375 will be a little lighter on my shoulder, and my wallet (remember..factory loads only) over the long haul. I plan on that, and call me crazy..but an eotech on top. Having used these first hand in the the USMC..they are no toy. Not really traditional I suppose, but would seem to be a very effective combo.
Comments, suggestions, questions?

I realize a great deal of practice will be needed to effectively learn to reload the #1 in a timely manner. This is something I am willing and able to do.

NHbwana

The 375 is a good choice. Should be pleanty for your lion and buff. It didn't get famous over the past 100 yrs by accident. Not sure I'd go with the #1 though. Have a look at the Browning A-Bolt, Rem Mod 700, Ruger RSM and the new Ruger Hawkeye. The bolt will be much easier to get a 2nd (& 3rd, & 4th) shot if your lion or buff is not a cooperative as your moose have been.

Welcome. And congrats for getting your priorities straight and piling up your money to make them a reality at the age of 31!

For starters, since you asked , I will say that a single shot would not be my first choice, even for plains game.

If I were in your shoes, and planning to hunt what you are, and wanted one rifle to do all of it, I would choose a .375 H&H Mag. bolt rifle mounted with a low to mid range variable powered scope. Three or four or five extra rounds a few quick bolt throws away are nice to have, and sometimes essential.

I would probably go with either a Win. Model 70 classic or a CZ 550 Mag. and send it off to a good gunsmith for bedding and tuning.

Whatever your choices, good hunting and good luck!

Same advice. Get a .375 H&H. It will do for all that you have on your list at the present time. Make is up to you, but the Ruger Magnum Safari would fit the bill. I too would stay away from the single shot. Africa is not North America and the animals there can bite, claw, gore, stomp, charge, etc. etc. on a more regular and frequent basis.

Seeing as how you are used to a bolt rifle I too recommend you get a 375 Bolt.
A scope in the 1-6 or the 2-8 power range would work just fine. I would get one with an illuminated reticle, I have found them quite useful.

I wish you would reload as you could load practice ammo very cheaply, but If you do not I would suggest the following.

Go to a couple of gunstores and fine one that will order you 400 or 500 rounds of Federal Classic [not Premium] 270 gr ammo at near their cost, not retail, to use for practice.

I would take some kind of "Premium" ammo to Africa, but you do not have to pracice early on with the high dollar stuff.
Also this Federal 270 Classic ammo would work just fine on any game in the lower 48.

Welcome to AR.

Welcome!

I don't know, winning the lottery twice for moose; not sure if we want to talk to you!

The 375 will do everything you need it to do on your African shopping list. There is a sizeable difference in recoil between the 375 and 458, and if this is your first big bore, it is a much better round to adjust to. It will also be a little gentler on game in NH than a 458. You also get a good range of factory loaded ammo in different bullet weights with the 375.

I am with the rest of the crew here in thinking that a good bolt action would be a better choice over a single shot, especially in Africa. It would be a real downer to lose a wounded animal for the lack of a timely second shot - and if you wound it, you bought it.

It also gives you a lot more flexibility in hunting cape buffalo - load the first round or two with a soft point with the rest solids.

If you don't have your heart set on a brand new rifle, there are lots of good second hand 375 bolt actions in the market at any given time for probably what you would pay for a new Ruger #1.

If you are flexible in looking at both new and used bolt actions, there are a lot of choices. IF you like the #1 because of its short profile, a shorter barreled bolt would work (like the Ruger Hawkeye).

Browning and Ruger have some great options out there. And don't forget about SAKO.

Don't know whether you prefer controlled round feeds to puch feeds (a clear preference for dangerous game), but there are options there as well.

There are also calibers a step above the 375 that won't beat you up in recoil or ammo price - the 416 class (Rigby and Remington) and the 404 (actually .423 caliber) come to mind. A little harder on the pocketbook than the 375, but worth a look.

Reloading will cut your ammo costs by roughly 2/3. If your hunt is this year, though, you may want to stick with the factory ammo for this trip. There is no shortage of fine factory ammunition.

I personally think the eotech is fantastic. I have also used those and similar mounts in the past. It does not take long to get used to them, and after you have used them, it is tough to go back,, kind of like a heads up display. I would go with the smaller MOA (2.5) over the larger one.

Ask your PH what the ranges of shooting may be. If under 100 yards or so, the eotech should be fine. If you may be looking at longer shots (200 plus yards) you might want to think about a scope with quick detach mounts. You may only get one shot at an animal on your list. Sounds like the eotech will be perfect in NH.

Best of luck on your hunt. You have been bitten by the Africa bug, and I must tell you there is no cure...

First off guys thanks for the help so far. But do keep it coming.

I don't reload for several reasons. One I don't have the room. Two I have never really had the inclination to do so. Enough on that though.

I planned on buying some "premium" stuff for the actual hunt, and thoroughly testing it out before hand. I plan this summer to find the hottest days I can and bake the gun and some rounds outside to get an idea if I will have any problems with the African heat. Not a true representation of the heat..but better than nothing I suppose. Thanks for the clue about the cheap federal stuff.

I guess I'm not overly surprised about the less than stellar view's about the #1. My thinking for that is simple. I am basically starting new here. My old bolt has never had the action worked in anything that would be considered haste by me. Hell the only thing in anger I have ever shot was a M4. The recoil is negligible. And to tell the truth, I'm not a huge fan of the bolt to begin with. That said I fully plan to make my first shot count (I know..stuff happens), and really sorting out some wounded animal is one of the reasons why I am paying for a PH. I also know there is a chance I may have to do it, I fully understand. Now I know I should make sure this doesn't happen. And if I have anything to say about it..it won't.

I will look at a bolt gun though. I'm not partial to new or used..doesn't make a bit of diff to me as long as it works. If I go bolt..the pushfeeds are a big no no in my book. I would pretty much stick to a mauser of some type. Either the CZ or the new Rem 798. Maybe a well sorted out Mauser isn't so bad. A pic rail for the EOtech, and a small scope in a QD setup? Maybe a drop on peep for a third backup?

Jim Manion-

I am pretty used to the eotech..I know its newfangled and such. They just plain work though. Both eyes open, bombproof, quite a system even when the face gets obscured. Great peice of hardware. Not sure the legality of it..but they are NV compatible to. Oh yeah..my neighbors father has won the damn lotto 4 times...talk about luck.

NHbwana

Another vote for the 375 H&H and a CZ550 action.

I am a fan of the Ruger No1, still have my 45/70.
I have hunted in Zimbabwe on 3 Safaris totalling @86 days.
I have taken several buff and 7 elephants, 4 at 6 yards or less, all with double rifles.

There have only been a couple of times that a Ruger No1 would have put me at any disadvantage.

I would not hesitate to take one to Africa [if I was not such a double rifle freek].

If you deside on a No1 I would put a buttstock shell carrier from Murray Leather.
So when you reload you just "pluck" the next shell off the stock right behind the action.

I carry ammo on my doubles, and all my other rifles too, in the same way.

For up close the EO-Tec is a very fast sight. I have the new one that used Lithium 123 batteries, with a life of @5000hours.
I would also have a scope in the 1-6 power range as the scope will help you out in low light.
Nothing wrong with having both sights fitted.

If you like the No1 and practice with it it will serve you well.

First, my family and I thank you for your service to the USMC.

You have come to the right place for some sage wisdom. I have none to offer. I'm just an Eastern woods hunter myself. That said...

My first real big game hunt will come this fall in BC. Africa will happen for me in 2011. We have already started the savings fund. I digress....

What do you guys think about recommending the .338 Win in this case? I suppose the buff might rule it out in terms of min cal restrictions? I'm just thinking it might be a good place to start for someone not used to a big bore. Maybe the .338 with a 300gr Woodleigh? I have seen Sako Finnbears chambered in .338 go for $800 or less. Throw a 1.5-5 on it and you're good to go.

If you need more than that, maybe it is time to consider a .416? It just seems to me that one can buy/shoot a .338 Win for considerably less than a .375.

If I were in your shoes, here's what I would do....

Pick up a quality .338 WM, shoot factory premium ammo and head to Africa for plains game. I would then take five years or so and get intimately aquainted with reloading. I'd then pick up a .416 Rigby to accompany my .338 back to the Dark Continent and kill anything that is on the menu.

Anyway, that's the route this NoreEasterner is going... Just my .02 Rolling your own will pay dividends well beyond cost savings. It is well worth considering.

There is only one rifle that you need as a working all rounder. That is a .375 H&H. Buy a CZ, winchester 70 or even Zastava.... now remington791 (if i'm not mistaken) and you'll be fine. My africa battery being a young man with not much moolah is an old voere 30-06 mauser and a CZ 550 in 416 rigby.

The bunch of guys that I hunt with boast at least 5 .375 h&h rifles of various makes including 2 brno 602s. I believe that there is a sako, an A bolt and one more that i don't know the brand of.

Caliber works on critters from klipspringer - buff. just make sure that the bedding on your rifle is good and that your softs and solids shoot to approximately the same place.

I don't reload but every shot I have made in Africa has been with hand loads. If you look around I do believe you will be able to find a relaoder that will do this for you and you will save big bucks. When I return from Africa he is always asking how did WE do. He takes great pride in knowing he loaded the round that took this or that animial. Reloaders take great pride in their work. All that said, I would go with the 375 (personally a bolt action (Savage) but one can learn to rapid fire with a #1, been there done that. I just took my Leopard last month and the PH backed me with a Ruger #1 and I wasn't worried. The Leopard was dead when he hit the ground.

Its never to early to start your home work. First learn to reload, at $60.00 bucks + a box You can't shoot enough rounds to learn the big guns. You can set up a portable bench or load at the rifle range. There are two many advantages to relading, saveing money is not the most important. You can load to your needs Light loads for pratice, loads for white tail, loads for dangerous game!!!. Cost less than $300.00 to get started.

The hunt you are talking about could run 30 to 50 thou depending on where and what your main focis is ( lion or buff or Mr spots).
Why limit your self to one rifle. I would suggest a 3006 or a 338 win mag in a Tikka T 3. Stay away from Rem and Browning. The tikka will cost less,and shoot better, feed better. Get the tikka with the lamanatied wood stock. The lite gun is too lite, you won't be hikeing up up hill. You want a control feed type action for your heavy gun, CZ- win 70- ruger 77- Montania 1999. I have both a 375 H&H and a 416 rem mag. The 416 hits harder on both ends and shoots flatter than my 375. The 350 gr TSX were 1/2 moa past 300 yards and shoot 2" flatter than my 375 with 270 gr tsx. The ecoh tec's are great, I have one on a bush master, I also have a 2X aim point. They are not what you want for this hunt. They don't gather enough lite, shot placement with these animals is #1. You may have to thread your shot through cover at dusk. You need 1.5 x 6 for you big gun, and a 3x9 for the lite gun. Look at leo and burris, SB if you have the money.

I hope this helps.


JD

Welcome!

Great to start planning and preparing early. If you've won the moose lottery twice, you've already been practicing on the "luck" part.

A .375 H&H makes a great basic rifle for Africa. Can be used on plains game and as a backup rifle for DG (I'd personally prefer the main DG rifle to be of a larger caliber like .416 Rem, .416 Rigby, or any of the .458s).

Buf can take a huge amount of killing and do not always present the perfect shot for a lighter rifle. The Lion Leopard, and bait will not represent much of a problem for caliber. Even a .338 WM or a 9,3x62 would be adequate if legal.

As per action, a CRF rifle that works and you can shoot is the real reguirement. Invested dollars are the limiting factor. Lots of folks like Mausers, Win M70s and Rugers and lots of folks with less money have made very fine rifles from CZs. I have Mausers, Win M70's and CZs and love them.

I too like Eotechs but have not used one on a rifle for Africa ... yet. But I intend to as my eyes are getting old. They would come into their own of the DG rifle.

Don't close the door on reloading forever. It is a great way to get best performance from most rifles. It makes the cost of shooting heavier calibers much more reasonable thus allowing good practice.

Welcome to AR and thank you for protecting our country as a Marine! Since Buff is on your ticket, the .375 is the minimum caliber most anywhere you hunt M'bogo. Look at the CZ. It uses a Bruno mauser action and has excellent scope mounting rails and CRF. Ammo is found most anywhere (in case yours is lost or stolen on your flight). It also retains excellent down range ballistics for those longer shots (Zebra). It will make you a good all around rifle, and as mentioned you may need follow up shots. Things can turn south in a hurry and it only takes one time to be our last. As to your intended itinerary, try to book your hunts as a combo. That will save you money as opposed to hunting only Buffalo, then Lion, then Leopard etc. A combo hunt for Buff and Leopard is very doable, and your daily rates will reduce as opposed to separate hunts. I'd plan carefully if you wanted to add Lion, as this will cause the daily rates and time needed to soar. Plus, one trip to Africa and you'll grit your teeth at night to get back Watch AR's classifieds. You can pick up some good deals on ammo, components and guns. Ask questions: we have some great people (men & women) on AR. Good hunting, David

To all thank you for the help so far. I really appreciate it. Since my last post I have been active in my search..very active. I have done some shooting well alot of shooting even with the damn rain..some shopping and have made a purchase. Not in that order

I went to my local shop, and immediately was drawn to the back. Can't explain why. There sitting in the rack was a mostly new CZ550, with a McMillan synthetic stock. All the metal had been coated in one of those bake on finishes, a barrel band swivel had been added (I'm guessing here), and a nice Leuy sat on top. I pick it up. .458win mag marked right on the barrel. The leuy is a decent VX3 1.5x5x20 illuminated job. So..I simply bought it. Couldn't afford not to. Traded in a decent pistol, and walked out the door with it for less than $300 out of pocket. I also procured 3 boxes of various ammo..all they had lol.

Well after shooting two boxes up this saturday..all offhand. I can say she lets you know she went off. Not near as bad as I expected though. And I am very happy with the rifle so far. Shoots very well. Accurate enough for me so far. I have added a sling, some scope guards and a leather tie on stock ammo carrier. She weighs about 10 lbs according to my scale. And I am feeling pretty good about the whole affair as of right now.

More ammo arrived today, and will be pickinig it up and benching the gun tonight. 3 types will be showing up, 2 softs and 2 solids including the box I have left. Hopefully I can find a solid and soft this gun likes, that hit near the same POA.

I'm sure I will post again later tonight after my range session.


NHbwana

I also wanted to say your welcome to all who have thanked me for my service. It was my honor, truly. I appreciate the sentiment.

Well once again I'm back.

My range session went really well with the .458. Recoil was a bit much off the bench, but it isn't a death scentence. Not something I will do again thuogh..lol. So I shot 5 3 round groups of federal 500 grain TBBC softs first. My average group measured 1.75" with my tightest being .75". Not bad results. Anything I will ask this gun to do she will do with that load.
I then did the same test with the federal 500 grain trophy bonded sledgehammer solids. Got an average group of 1.45" with my tightest being a 1.25. So pretty consistent. Only problem is my POI from the softs was about 1 inch lower on average.
I then spnt the rest of my ammo and time shooting offhand at various ranges, and shooting some of our moving targets we have. On a positive note the scope wasn't near the handicap I thought it would be for moving targets. The lowlight shooting I did to try the lighted recticle was a real eyeopener. I also had to do some scope adjustment with the tight sling I tend to shoot with.
So now I have some questions.

1. Should I be worried with the POI difference from soft to solid? An inch doesn't seem much to me..any thoughts?

2. I am ordering another 2 boxes of each for now ( my local shop will let me get them at cost..as they are a slow seller in my area..lol) should I be satisfied with these loads as far as on game performance? Will the TB series do the job I guess is what I am getting at?

3. When I go practice, what positions should I be shooting from to best simulate actual African hunting conditions?

4. I brought my handgun timer with me to the range to see how quickly I could get off two shots. I got my time down to 3.89 seconds between shots. My guess is that isn't so hot. Any ideas where I need to get to?

Any other thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated.

NHbwana

NH
Sounds like you found a winner.
If you are shooting 1 inch difference between softs and solids at 100 yards i would jump for joy.

If that is at 50 yards that is still perfect, just shoot at 100 to see what it does there.

The TB loads [soft and solids] will work just fine on game.

I would practice standing off hand out to 50 yards shoot kneeling and off of sticks to 150 [even 200 just to see how you do].

Practice shooting 2 and even 3 shots as "fast as possible] at different ranges. The important thing is to HIT WHAT YOU SHOOT AT.

For Practice see if you can get some "stamdard" 500 gr bullets, ie non premium, as they should be quite a bit cheaper.

Your Leupold scope is an excellent choice. i would shoot some witj the iron sigjts and also see if the mounts can be taken on and off and go back to zero.

A friend of mine has a CZ in 375 H&H and it shoot very well out to 300 yards.

I would shoot all you future shots out of the Magazine to test the functioning of the rifle.

Also learn to reload the rifle and "top it off" smoothly and rapidly.

Practice, practice, practice.... and have fun.

Use the rifle for as much local hunting as you can.

NHbwana, welcome to big bores.

Glad to here that your first two range trips went well. Build yourself a set of shooting sticks, and like NE450No2 said, practice, practice,.....

quote:

I plan this summer to find the hottest days I can and bake the gun and some rounds outside to get an idea if I will have any problems with the African heat.

Might need to plan a Texas hog hunt in late July or August, for the "heat test". Your NH 85 deg highs just aren't much of a challenge.

Keep up the good work and good luck on your hunt,

Keith

A texas hog hunt you say? Not sure I got enough gun. Now I know Texas is hot..damn hot. That said New England in August is pretty much the suckiest heat I have ever felt. And I have traveled some. A hunt for some porkers sounds pretty inviting though. Hopefully a charge or two can be induced.

So while playing hookie today to play with my new toy, I raided about every shop in driving area to procure as much ammo as humanely possible. I ended up with 2 more boxes of federal solids, 1 more box of softs, and 6 boxes of winchester 500 grain vanilla loads. I also made a call to my dad's friend who reloads. He will be doing some reloads for me once I get enough brass. (also picked up a set of dusty old dies from a shop..$25..good price I would say)
All of the groups I shot yesterday were at 50 yards. Hopefully today I can get back out and do some shooting at 100 and 200 yards. And alot more work offhand.

Thanks again for all the help. And keep it coming.

NHbwana

You can fry an egg on a car hood in San Antone in August. It's either South Texas or Death Valley for the heat tests, and I don't think you can shoot in Death Valley... Go hunt hawgs.

Since you're gonna hunt with factory loads, you might want to try some Remington-loaded 500 gr. Swift A Frames for the high end stuff. Some say it's a better performing bullet than the TBBC, and some don't...FWIW

Federal also loads a 400 gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaw that is good for NA game including big bears. They also loaded, not sure if they still do, a 350gr RN that would be good for deer and pigs.

I think the 458 Win Mag, or 458 Lott is the best choice for a persons first big bore, [non double rifle of course ]

Just keep practicing.

Congratulations on your purchase. Once you've gone to big bores, you never go back. Shoot from sticks. It's good practice for Africa and much easier on you. That is the only way I shoot my .458 WinMag and my .458 Lott. I sight them in on sticks as well.

Also, you'll find the big bores (while delivering significant knock down power) do less tissue damage than the high velocity small bores. As the old saying goes - with big bores, you can eat right up to the hole.

Congratulations on finding an inexpensive 458 Win Mag. As far as shooting off the bench, you need to be upright and have as much height that you can get while shooting. If you gotta do it, just commandeer every sandbag around while you're shooting off the bench. Finding accuracy loads can be tough while benching it but with an elevated bench position and having your body upright instead of hunching down will make it very bearable. Good luck on finding good matching loads.