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Minister cracks down on canned lion hunting
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Minister cracks down on canned lion hunting

Richard Davies | Cape Town, South Africa


20 February 2007 01:50

Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism Marthinus van Schalkwyk dealt canned lion hunting a death blow on Tuesday by outlawing the hunting of captive-bred large predators within two years of their release on a property for the purpose of hunting.

Announcing new regulations on threatened and protected species -- to come into effect on June 1 -- he told journalists in Cape Town he intends "putting an end, once and for all, to the reprehensible practice of canned hunting".

The regulations specifically prohibit "hunting large predators and rhinoceros that are 'put and take' animals -- in other words, a captive-bred animal that is released on a property for the purpose of hunting within twenty-four months".

Van Schalkwyk's announcement is certain to send shockwaves through sections of South Africa's hunting community. Previously, it was proposed that animals be free-ranging for six months before being hunted.

"South Africa has a long-standing reputation as a global leader on conservation issues. We cannot allow our achievements to be undermined by rogue practices such as canned lion hunting," he said.

The new regulations signal the start of a clean-up of the hunting industry.

"They lay the basis for a well-regulated and ethical hunting and game-farming industry in South Africa.

"While we applaud their substantial and positive contribution to conservation management and economic growth, we also have a responsibility to preserve the resource base and ensure that the industry has a sustainable future."

In order to do this, it is necessary to balance economic objectives with conservation-management objectives.

"Hunting is an important industry, but we must manage it in accordance with ethical and defensible standards," he said.

For this reason, the regulations include prohibitions and restrictions on certain activities and methods of hunting.

"For example, hunting thick-skinned animals and large predators with a bow and arrow will be prohibited, and hunting from vehicles will no longer be allowed."

The implementation of the regulations is the first in a two-step process.

"The next step will be to promote even greater uniformity with regard to elements of the hunting industry that we are not dealing with today.

"We will introduce national norms and standards that provide a framework for provincial regulation and further [streamlining]. This will also be developed in close consultation with the industry, provincial authorities and other stakeholders."

Van Schalkwyk warned that the "Green Scorpions" would play a key role in ensuring compliance with the new regulations.

The new regulations also introduce a uniform national system for the registration of captive-breeding operations, commercial-exhibition facilities, game farms, nurseries, scientific institutions, sanctuaries and rehabilitation facilities. -- Sapa


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Posts: 9519 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I see little difference in shooting a tame lion vs shooting a tame cow. On the other hand, I have no respect for hunters who participate in hunting tame lions or other animals. In a way, I'm glad hunting tame animals is being banned. If would have no reservations about this except it's a foot in the door for further restrictions on hunting.

It's too bad that the purveyors of lion hunts and hunters haven't been smart enough to police themselves.
 
Posts: 2911 | Location: Ohio, U.S.A. | Registered: 31 March 2006Reply With Quote
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It is impossible to express objective opinion as long as the credible "Kortbroek" van Schalkwyk makes these kind of statements ...
 
Posts: 506 | Registered: 29 May 2006Reply With Quote
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What is "thick skinned game" ? Is this the end of bow hunting DG in SA?


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We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?'
 
Posts: 2122 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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The real question here is this:

Why is government getting involved in what is essentially a personal decision on hunting ethics?


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Posts: 1580 | Location: Dallas, Tx | Registered: 02 June 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Why is government getting involved in what is essentially a personal decision on hunting ethics?


Other than laws relevant to funtional conservation of a species (ITO hunting) many laws are based on ethics, laws pertaining to baiting, banning spring bear hunts where there healthy populations, shooting off vehicles. etc etc etc.
 
Posts: 1274 | Location: Alberta (and RSA) | Registered: 16 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Who or what atre the "Green Scorpions"?
 
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quote:
Who or what atre the "Green Scorpions"?


Environmental legislation 'crack squad'.
 
Posts: 1274 | Location: Alberta (and RSA) | Registered: 16 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Roscoe - the statement issued is thick skined game animals AND large predators.

So, it would seem that elephant, rhino, hippo and cape buffalo would be covered in the "thick skin" department, and lions and perhaps leopard would be covered in the "large predator" arena.

The bowhunting restrictions seem to me to be more of a surprise than the 2 year regulation on game farm animals.


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Posts: 2018 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 20 May 2006Reply With Quote
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Here is the full article from the AP

Government finalizes new laws on big-game hunting

The Associated Press

CAPE TOWN, South Africa: The environment minister announced a clampdown on big-game hunting in South Africa, saying Tuesday he was sickened by wealthy tourists shooting tame lions from the back of a truck and felling rhinos with a bow and arrow.

Shrugging off threats of legal action by the hunting industry, Marthinus Van Schalkwyk said the new law would ban "canned" hunting of big predators and rhinos in small enclosures from which animals have no means of escape.

Lions bred in captivity would have to be released into the open for at least two years — rather than the six months proposed in draft regulations — before they could be hunted to allow them to develop self-defense instincts, he said.

"Hunting should be about a fair chase ... testing the wits of a hunter against that of the animal," he told a news conference on Table Mountain. "Over the years that got eroded, and now we are trying to re-establish that principle."

South Africa is famous as home to the Big Five — lion, leopard, rhinoceros, elephant and buffalo. Its flagship Kruger National Park attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors every year. Some 9,000 privately owned game farms and other government-run reserves also offer visitors a taste of the wild.

But it also has become a choice destination for gun-toting tourists willing to pay more than US$20,000 (€15,200) to take home a prized "trophy" in the form of a lion or rhino's head.

The new law, which comes into force June 1, bans the hunting of animals that have been tranquilized. It outlaws bows and arrows for big predators and thick skinned animals, such as rhinos. And it bans the use of vehicles to chase animals until they are too tired and terrified to flee.

"To see people who are half drunk on the back of a bakkie (truck) hunting lions which are in fact tame animals is quite abhorrent," Van Schalkwyk — himself an avid hunter — told The Associated Press.

But conservationists said the law would be difficult to enforce and did not go far enough, as it stopped short of an outright ban on the intensive breeding of lions, leopards and other predators for use later in hunting.

"The big thing for South Africa would be to stand up and say 'we are conservation leaders and this industry is immoral and unethical and we are not going to allow it,'" said Louise Joubert of the San Wildlife Trust.

She said it made little difference whether a lion was freed for six months or two years before being hunted because once it had been reared and fed by humans, it was hard to break that trust.

Joubert said there should be an outright ban on intensive breeding projects, which often remove cubs from the mother at birth so the lioness mates more quickly, and often cull female cubs as male lions fetch a higher trophy price.

"We have asked for an outright ban," she said, even if it meant having to euthanize thousands of lions bred for hunting.

The South African Predator Breeders' Association, which was set up last year to lobby against the regulations, has warned that breeders may be forced to put down the estimated 3,000-5,000 lions they have reared if they are unable to offer them to foreign hunters and can no longer afford to feed them.

Earlier this year, it threatened legal action against the government to claim compensation. Association chairman Carel van Heerden said the regulations would shut down the industry, according to the South African Press Association.

Lion farmers from the North West province — which has a population of 1,700 lions in captivity, and a labor force of less than 1,000 people — met with local government authorities Tuesday to voice their fears that the new law "would almost certainly kill their industry," SAPA quoted provincial government and conservation minister Mandlenkosi Mayisela as saying.

The regulations would affect the local economy, he said, including poor rural communities that made a living by supplying donkeys to lion farmers.

The Professional Hunters' Association of South Africa said, however, that it welcomed the new regulations as a chance to clean up the image of the South African hunting industry by clamping down on lion breeders, who account for only about 3 percent of game farms.

"A small sector has given the whole industry a bad name," said Stewart Dorrington, the hunting body's president.

About 6,000-7,000 foreign tourists visit South Africa each year on hunting safaris, each spending roughly US$18,000 (€13,700), Dorrington said. About 55 percent of hunters are from North America, with most of the rest from European countries.

Van Schalkwyk said the regulations marked the start of a "cleanup of the hunting industry" and would in due course be extended to other animals, such as antelope species.

Hunting is an integral part of South African life because of its cultural traditions and importance to the economy. The environment minister said, however, that the plan to limit hunting was announced two years ago.

"Many of the lion breeders thought they were empty threats," Van Schalkwyk said, but "this is a practice that cannot be defended in any way."
 
Posts: 61 | Location: OH | Registered: 16 January 2007Reply With Quote
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What a nice economic dis-incentive to breed and raise lions. With a bit of luck, all the lion breeders will go out of business and the SA population of lions will fall to a fraction of the current level. Well done.

It will be even more fun when this policy direction gets extended to other species. In a few years, the SA government might be able to achieve a country totally free of private game ranches. Who knows, eventually SA might be in the enviable position of many countries in the First World where the majority of the population has only seen live game through the bars of the zoo cage.

What a bold and innovative policy!


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Posts: 1580 | Location: Dallas, Tx | Registered: 02 June 2006Reply With Quote
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This really makes me think.......

Is this the beginning of the end of the South Africa as a hunting destination?

What is next to be banned or closed?


Rino
 
Posts: 249 | Location: Oevre Eiker, Norway / Winterton RSA | Registered: 07 March 2005Reply With Quote
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IMO it is a reprehensible practice and this is welcome legislation.

For all hunters the term used in the article "defensible standards" should be key.
 
Posts: 280 | Location: Tanzania | Registered: 11 March 2005Reply With Quote
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How many people want to shoot canned cats or bow-hunt pachyderms?

The bow hunt pachyderms issue has been on the cards for a while, and under moratorium as well (Ted Nugents rhino was it?).

Cleaning up canned hunting - good!
 
Posts: 1274 | Location: Alberta (and RSA) | Registered: 16 October 2005Reply With Quote
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While most hunters seem to deem the (so-called) canned hunting of lions as unethical, reprehensible, bad, unacceptable, etc, etc - in reality the providers (breeders) can barely keep up with demand and they are (have been, I guess!) consistently selling large numbers of these animals every year.
 
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The whole canned hunting industry started because of greed. Lots of foreigh hunters wanted a gaureteed Lion and was prepared to pay for it. That gave an opportunity for breeders to start breeding Lions. The only way to stop the demand is to cut of the supply.

Canned hunting is not ethical and no matter what is said about it, it will never be right. How legislation will be policed is another question.

There are many arguments for canned Lion hunting that do make sense and it was mentioned previously here that each hunter must make up his own mind on how he wants to hunt, true, but we do not live isolated in the world and the actions of one group have a huge effect on other sectors in our country.

For me a hunt is a total experince in nature, it is soul cleaning.


Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips.

Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation.
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Posts: 1250 | Location: Centurion and Limpopo RSA | Registered: 02 October 2003Reply With Quote
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Come on guys were is it going to Stop! First they take away Chicken fights, Bull fights and even Dog fights.
Now the antis are attacking penned lions hunts! Were is it going to stop!!
Reprehensible! Ethics! Morals! REAL hunters aren't bothered by mere words are they?


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Posts: 599 | Location: Soldotna Alaska | Registered: 05 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Whatever your ethical position is on this matter, the nose of the camel is now under the tent in regards to further future restrictions on hunting in South Africa. Unfortunately, this doesn't just deal with canned lion hunting only. Re-read the post more carefully. This has farther reaching implications than canned lion hunting for the South African Hunting Industry and for future hunting there. As just one example, did you catch the phrase :". . .and this industry is immoral and unethical. . . ." ? Wake up folks, read the fine print, and understand what is going on here, and what the ultimate goal is. Don't delude yourself into believing that that is all they are interested in.
 
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The problem I have with the kind of lion hunting referred to here is the emotional weight that is added to the mix by especially non-hunters. Lions are labelled as "the king of the jungle" and "The lion king" and so on, and as such develops an aura of something more special than other wildlife.

There is preciously little difference in shooting bred lion and shooting bred nyala or sable or buffalo - other than our perceprion of it.
 
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Bahati: You're beginning to see already. "Our" perception and "their" perception are two totally different things. Shameful practices have been exposed, yes, but the SA Hunting Industry did nothing to clean it up in the last few years on their own, before it got to this. Now it is being done through public pressure and public opinion, and that public pressure and public opinion is anti-hunting, in all forms and types. What did the article say was next for clean-up of the hunting industry? Antelope?
 
Posts: 18570 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Ethics in itself can occupy a monumental discussion - and has - as the issue of ethics and what it really is, is as old as the mountains.

Ethics should be seen as a distillation of past experience, made available for future decisions. There is also an inter-relatedness between ethics and principles in that all principles must be applied with judgment derived from ethics. But then we need to define principles first, and so the debate deepens.

Author R Schmidt in 1997 in an article "Keeping wildlife at a safe distance: A code of ethics for Wildlife Damage Management" takes the view that “Ethics deal with the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group, and the set of principles of good and bad conduct.†Although it seems very theoretical, his definition is intuitively neutral and quite acceptable. He furthermore explains how “… activities and behaviours not meeting these minimum, self-imposed standards defined in the code of ethics are, by definition, unethical behaviours.â€

These descriptions raise an immediate concern, and that is that different cultures and within that, different groups and subgrouyps, experience life differently, have different value systems and therefore would define principles – and ethics - differently.

Jaco goes hunting to clean his soul and so do I and probably most of the folks who post here. I know people who go to the shopping mall to do exactly that.

What I am especially wary of it that one group decide what is good and right for all other groups and enforce their set of values on others. Especially if these decisions to dominate are driven by emotions rather than facts. That is much worse than shooting a bred lion.
 
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Yes I agree with the perception story. Most non-hunters thinks that a Lion is a soft cuddly thing, which is very far from the truth. The industry should have done something to it long time ago.

The thing with antelopes are that certain rare species are bred in captivity and are then released in small enclosures where they are shot. I was once offered a Njala bull at a ridiculously high price, he was one of 5 bulls that were kept in an enclosure of 50 ha. Nobody can tell me that it was not canned hunting. I did turn the offer down. This is practises that must be stopped. The sooner Phasa gets involved stopping this practises the better. The biggest problem is that not all outfitters belong to Phasa, so it is very difficult for them to regulate all trohpy hunting. If there were legislation that all outfitters must belong to a proffesional body, then it would have been easy to clean up from the inside, unfortuneately it is not the case at the moment.

Both proffesional and amateur hunting bodies ( I am a member in both sectors) must stand together and regulate themselves to ensure the future of hunting in RSA

I am not a fan of "Kortbroek" van Schalkwyk, but by not doing the right things to regulate the hunting industry, the hunting comunity gave him a gap to get involved


Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips.

Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation.
Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984
PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197
Jaco Human
SA Hunting Experience

jacohu@mweb.co.za
www.sahuntexp.com
 
Posts: 1250 | Location: Centurion and Limpopo RSA | Registered: 02 October 2003Reply With Quote
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Use Enough Gun: You bet!
 
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Much as I despise canned hunts, of what value are animals to Africa if they can't sell them? What's the incentive to raise rhinos, or lions, and make sure the group survives, when they can't profit from their existence, and killing?

I'm concerned that this step may destroy the incentive for the African people to protect the animals.

S
 
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GS,
With regards to lions, they are not endangered as rhino's are in some countries. There are various countries with healthy wild lion populations that are huntable now and will be in the future. They don't need to be "canned" in order to ensure their future survival.

And with both, the issue is not whether one should continue breeding them or not but when you offer them to a hunter, make sure that they are in a large enough area that the odds are even between the animal and the hunter.


"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
 
Posts: 3035 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Game Ranches and preserve hunts will no doubt be next.

When the cycle is completed and the 'farms' have no economic viability, the State will sieze redistribute the land.
 
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Canned hunting in any form is not hunting, it is the same as taking hogs and cattle to a slaughter house for processing. If you want to sell lions fine, but don't call it hunting.
 
Posts: 213 | Registered: 28 April 2006Reply With Quote
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Most of the responses in this thread appear to be oblivious to the greater issues involved.

#1. In poor countries, wildlife must provide a direct economic benefit to the local economy or it is quickly swept away.

#2. The ideal of free ranging game able to inhabit and traverse thousands of square miles, roaming about at will is charming, but is also largely a thing of the past. Yes, it still exists in a few areas, but those areas are changing very quickly. In 50 years, they'll be almost non-existent.

#3. The current hunting situation in Europe is probably a best-case scenario for the future of hunting around the world. There will be a few areas where large tracts of land can be hunted, but most hunting will be restricted to moderately sized private properties. Private lands will be intensely managed in ways currently practiced in South Texas (and Europe).

#4. You are discussing the issue in terms defined by the enemies of hunting. You have let them frame the dialog in their own terms. You can't help but lose the moral high ground, since you have handed over every advantage to the antis. When you allow the discussion to be phrased in terms of "canned hunting", you've already handed over the right to hunt on private property. By allowing the argument to be framed in this manner, you have already conceded that no hunt that takes place on private land is sporting. It's as simple as that.

#5. Speaking of free ranging game, which is the more sporting scenario?
a, Hunting elk that have never seen a human, as in North America in 1700?
b, Hunting wild hogs in a 1,500 acre preserve covered in thick brush where the pigs are hunted daily?
As we all should know, game that has never come in contact with man is very easy to shoot and is hardly a great hunting challenge. Regularly hunted game that has a fair opportunity to hide is exceedingly difficult to bag.

#6. Hunting ethics are very personal. Somewhere between "I'm willing to shoot a tethered cow" and "I'll only hunt public land elk with a slingshot" each of us have a comfort zone. Is is high fence hunting ethical? What if the fence is around 80 acres of land? What if it's around 80,000 acres? What if the natural range of the game is 400 acres? What if it's a 300,000 acre fence? At what point does the hunt become fair chase?

#7. Governments deal with legalities and not ethics. Most of us prefer that our laws be based on ethics, but the correspondence between legality and morality is haphazardous at best. When morality is imposed by legislation, a failure to achieve either a legal or a moral populace usually results.

We are facing a slippery slope here. If these "canned hunts" keep the profit motive alive for the private breeding of big cat species, I'm all for them. Because it's almost impossible to codify "fair chase", disaster is almost sure to follow if the government gets involved. The issue is very simple: these animals are livestock and are subject to the management of their owners and legislation regarding the humane management of livestock. If the owner of livestock chooses to create the illusion of a hunt for a fee and that illusion satisfies a fool with more hair than wit, so be it. How is the charade my business?

As we look into the future, we see a time in the not-too-distant future where hunting opportunities will be almost entirely restricted to preserve-style hunting. People will long for the golden ages of the past, but the reality will be somewhat more tame. Many of us may give up hunting, others will try to accept the limited opportunities and adapt to the new reality. None of this is meant to be an incitement to shoot tethered cows; it is meant to point out that a "fair" hunt can have many guises and that we shouldn't encourage the meddling of well-intentioned, but ultimately destructive fools.


analog_peninsula
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It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence.
 
Posts: 1580 | Location: Dallas, Tx | Registered: 02 June 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by analog_peninsula:
Most of the responses in this thread appear to be oblivious to the greater issues involved.

#1. In poor countries, wildlife must provide a direct economic benefit to the local economy or it is quickly swept away.

#2. The ideal of free ranging game able to inhabit and traverse thousands of square miles, roaming about at will is charming, but is also largely a thing of the past. Yes, it still exists in a few areas, but those areas are changing very quickly. In 50 years, they'll be almost non-existent.

#3. The current hunting situation in Europe is probably a best-case scenario for the future of hunting around the world. There will be a few areas where large tracts of land can be hunted, but most hunting will be restricted to moderately sized private properties. Private lands will be intensely managed in ways currently practiced in South Texas (and Europe).

#4. You are discussing the issue in terms defined by the enemies of hunting. You have let them frame the dialog in their own terms. You can't help but lose the moral high ground, since you have handed over every advantage to the antis. When you allow the discussion to be phrased in terms of "canned hunting", you've already handed over the right to hunt on private property. By allowing the argument to be framed in this manner, you have already conceded that no hunt that takes place on private land is sporting. It's as simple as that.

#5. Speaking of free ranging game, which is the more sporting scenario?
a, Hunting elk that have never seen a human, as in North America in 1700?
b, Hunting wild hogs in a 1,500 acre preserve covered in thick brush where the pigs are hunted daily?
As we all should know, game that has never come in contact with man is very easy to shoot and is hardly a great hunting challenge. Regularly hunted game that has a fair opportunity to hide is exceedingly difficult to bag.

#6. Hunting ethics are very personal. Somewhere between "I'm willing to shoot a tethered cow" and "I'll only hunt public land elk with a slingshot" each of us have a comfort zone. Is is high fence hunting ethical? What if the fence is around 80 acres of land? What if it's around 80,000 acres? What if the natural range of the game is 400 acres? What if it's a 300,000 acre fence? At what point does the hunt become fair chase?

#7. Governments deal with legalities and not ethics. Most of us prefer that our laws be based on ethics, but the correspondence between legality and morality is haphazardous at best. When morality is imposed by legislation, a failure to achieve either a legal or a moral populace usually results.

We are facing a slippery slope here. If these "canned hunts" keep the profit motive alive for the private breeding of big cat species, I'm all for them. Because it's almost impossible to codify "fair chase", disaster is almost sure to follow if the government gets involved. The issue is very simple: these animals are livestock and are subject to the management of their owners and legislation regarding the humane management of livestock. If the owner of livestock chooses to create the illusion of a hunt for a fee and that illusion satisfies a fool with more hair than wit, so be it. How is the charade my business?

As we look into the future, we see a time in the not-too-distant future where hunting opportunities will be almost entirely restricted to preserve-style hunting. People will long for the golden ages of the past, but the reality will be somewhat more tame. Many of us may give up hunting, others will try to accept the limited opportunities and adapt to the new reality. None of this is meant to be an incitement to shoot tethered cows; it is meant to point out that a "fair" hunt can have many guises and that we shouldn't encourage the meddling of well-intentioned, but ultimately destructive fools.


Well said.
 
Posts: 1282 | Registered: 17 September 2004Reply With Quote
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Shooting any animal in a small, high fenced area with a guaranteed chance of a kill is to me, unsportsmanslike and will be the No.1 reason for antis to attack all true sportsman.

Other than some stupid record book or sick personal ego, what pleasure, thrill or skill is involved in shooting a cornered animal which has zero chance of escape, especially so if it is a bred animal that has never been wild.

I am glad that this has been banned in SA and hope the same will happen in this country with all the put and take ranches.
 
Posts: 2579 | Location: New York, USA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Canned lion hunts have done more to destroy the reputation of the South Africa hunting industry than any anti hunting group ever could! The sooner they go out of business the better. As a sportsman I am ashamed they have stayed in business as long as they have. If killing animals in small electrified pens is the future of hunting in Africa, we are all in trouble! Hunters should always remember the vast majority of people in the world are not hunters. But they are not always against sport hunting when it's used as a true legitimate conservation tool and done in a fair and ethical manner.

Raising lions with the sole intent of killing them in double fenced electrified pens has nothing to do with conservation! It's all about money and what some people will do to make it.


Robert Johnson
 
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I cannot and will not ever eviscerate my ethics to the point of defending the shooting of tame lions in a fenced enclosure.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert johnson:
Canned lion hunts have done more to destroy the reputation of the South Africa hunting industry than any anti hunting group ever could! The sooner they go out of business the better. As a sportsman I am ashamed they have stayed in business as long as they have. If killing animals in small electrified pens is the future of hunting in Africa, we are all in trouble! Hunters should always remember the vast majority of people in the world are not hunters. But they are not always against sport hunting when it's used as a true legitimate conservation tool and done in a fair and ethical manner.

Raising lions with the sole intent of killing them in double fenced electrified pens has nothing to do with conservation! It's all about money and what some people will do to make it.


All very true. To me it is a moral issue, but moral issues do differ from one person to another.

An argument I have heard for hunting captive bred Lions are that by "hunting" them you take the presure of the wild Lion population. This might be true because of the huge demand for Lions and the small quotas for Lions, but is it morally and ethically correct?

What is also a fact is that a captive bred Lion is more dangerous than a wild Lion. Captive bred Lions lost their fear of human's, which makes them more dangerous.

We can also ask ourselves whether hunting a Lion over bait is ethical. Does that Lion have any chance of escaping. We can include the use of cameras to detect the movement of the predators. What about hunting a Leopard with dogs and chase the Leopard untill he is so tired that he can barely move and then shoot him.

Maybe we should ask ourselves where hunting origanated. Many many moons ago hunting was done to provide meat for the family groups and to protect the family units from predators. Many methods were used from bow and arrow to digging holes with sharp sticks in the bottom. Over the years weapons became more sofisticated and it became easier to gather food and protect your family from predators. The reasons for hunting also changed over the years. For me it is the enjoyment of the bush, testing my skills against the animal and to use the meat. For someone else it might be to have a trophy to remind him of the wonderful experiencehe had and for another just to have a head as a ornament against the wall. All hunters does not have the same reason for hunting, their ethics differ and so does their moral values.

My ideas of ethics and my moral values was developed over a long period within a certain framework, very few people are the same as myself. Will my outlook on canned hunting change the ideas of a person who have no problem with canned hunting, I don't think so.

My biggest problem with the legislation is that the hunting industry in RSA did not do enough to regulate themselves, now the goverment jumped in to regulate the industry due to pressure and perseptions by the anti's. The road ahead looks doomed, but it is never to late for us hunters to start doing positive self regulating amongst ourselves to ensure our privilage to hunt.


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Posts: 1250 | Location: Centurion and Limpopo RSA | Registered: 02 October 2003Reply With Quote
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You know, not all is doom and gloom. Lion hunting hasn't been outlawed. Those who want to sell lion hunts can still make money. There will be a period of a couple of years when lions in South Africa will be in shorter supply for hunting but after that, it should be back to business as usual.

I really don't care if the great Bwana Wanabee can't shoot his lion in a cage. Feeding lions for 2 years rather than a few months will be more expensive. I'm sure safari operators will raise prices to recoup their losses and Bwana Wanabee will just have to walk a little and take the risk that the lion he is hunting will try to eat him.

I'm sure most of you know this, but lions don't need to eat daily. A nice full meal of a warthog or a zebra haunch once a week or so sufices nicely.

I also couldn't care less that hunting the likes of elephant and rhino with a bow is outlawed. It's a big stunt anyway. While I don't care if someone hunts them with a bow, I think if someone is "bow hunting" they should be required to not only start with a bow but also finish with a bow; i.e., no PH with a big gun to back them up (although the PH should be allowed to back them up with a bow). Then, when their wounded animal gets into the brush, they should also be required to followup with a bow.
 
Posts: 2911 | Location: Ohio, U.S.A. | Registered: 31 March 2006Reply With Quote
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