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http://allafrica.com/stories/201305171114.html South Africa: IFP Supports Calls to Ban Trophy Hunting of Lions in South Africa 17 May 2013 press release The Inkatha Freedom Party supports all calls to end recreational killing of lions in South Africa. IFP Spokesperson on the Environment, Mrs CN Zikalala, MP said, "Lions are being bred in captivity, in most instances tranquilized and then released into large enclosed areas to be hunted. They are then being 'hunted' by these pseudo 'hunters' who take great pride and satisfaction in being able to kill a tame lion, at point blank range with a high powered rifle. This is as pathetic as it is cruel." Zikalala further added that, " It is reported that these lions are bred for the sole purpose of being hunted, often spending the majority of their lives in small, cramped quarters, are forced to breed and are released into controlled environments only when they are about to be shot. The wild lion population is also under threat with numbers dwindling from 450,000 to only 20000 currently left in the wild." The IFP accordingly urges the Minister of Environmental Affairs to immediately ban or at the very least, severely limit the number of lion hunting permits issued in South Africa each year. Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | ||
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Standard copy from the brainless idiots. Lionaid and jellybrain will be proud of the IFP! | |||
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Too bad the IFP have about as much clout as a wet fart. Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Dont see any lies in that text, good for them and the hunting industry! | |||
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Any move against hunting should be viewed with a great deal of circumspection. Especially a bunch of no hopers looking for votes a year before a general election. Anything to create a noise.  | |||
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Ah, but is it hunting?  At the risk of seeing this degenerating into the same old BS that always comes up, I actually think the canned shooting industry is a (very) bad thing for sport trophy hunting and I for one wouldn't lose any sleep over it being banned.  | |||
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I have a new favorite punch line. | |||
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Actually, if anything gets my attention, it's a wet fart! "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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I guess they're no more useless than the current Governmunt....... who incidentally, are getting no end of stick in the UK media because of the rising crime and the SAPS gangster tactics.  | |||
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+1. If we really believe in recreational hunting as "sport" (and I certainly do), then those directly involved must recognize that certain conduct should be considered as ethical and contrary behavior must (by necessity) be described as unethical. Not all killing of wildlife is hunting and we would never tolerate being associated with the type of cruelties most poachers inflict on game. How can we not take a stand against the type of practices described, if they do in fact occur?  "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken." Tanzania 2012: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/8331015971 Saskatoon, Canada 2013: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4121043/m/7171030391 Las Pampas, Argentina 2014: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4107165/m/1991059791 | |||
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 Haha, did not look at it that way. Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Define canned? Next it will be "why set aside these huge Safari areas so people can just go kill animals there........ Be careful what you wish for! United we stand......and all that. . | |||
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I knew it wouldn't take long to degenerate into the same old bollocks but for me any captive bred lion would fit into the category as would any drugged lion. I guess everyone has their own rules and/or definitions but for me the only lions that should be hunted are truly wild lions and if that means not everyone gets to hunt a lion and/or lion hunting prices go through the roof then so be it. - I frankly don't care one iota. | |||
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I have a couple of view points with this, one, every canned lion's bones heading for the East, saves a wild lion from a miserable death at the hand of a poacher, two, every success that the bunny huggers, or anyone playing their game, have, is another closed door for hunting, and ultimately, another nail in the coffin for wildlife. | |||
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Ah but is it hunting? and if not then as I see it, it's a separate issue entirely. As for bones etc to the East.......... As I see that, they have lions already and can always breed more. They do after all breed easily and quickly so let 'em have their own lions or even buy more and then farm them in their own countries to their heart's content...... it's no better or worse than farming cattle or pigs but I'd personally be more than happy to see ALL captive lion breeding in Africa banned entirely. | |||
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Well said!!! Although I'm not interested in doing it - I support all of "us" as a whole in the high fence biz. Hunting these lions, regardless of age has no negative impact upon wild lions. Some could argue the opposite in fact. But know this - some just know more and better than you. Stop now - you can't win this argument! | |||
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There lies the truth. These people in NOT interested in saving the lions. They are ONLY INTERESTED in stopping ALL HUNTING! When they succeed - which I hope they don't. They will turn their attention to all so called "canned" hunting. Which means a lot of those occurring in South Africa and the US! | |||
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For the umpteenth time: "Its the beginning of the end" of a hunting era! The anti-hunting groups are a lot smarter than us and all of our comments and photos in particular are cannon-fodder, used to foment a hatred within their ranks towards the hunting fraternity and you know what? ...they ARE winning because they have been very successful in convincing powerful institutions and people to back their cause. All the past discussions and subsequent heated arguments over the posting of gory photos, video clips, unnecessary hee-hawing and the throwing of high and low fives just doesn't go down well with this lot but the horn-blowers kept shouting: "Its our right to hunt" (or something along those lines).....Yeah, its our right but for how long?! | |||
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I personally have never hunted or been on a "canned" lion hunt, and I do not care to, but most of South African hunts are basically canned and behind fences so why not lions? You guys have canned hunts for African game in Texas and other places, and I do believe it is the choice of the individual, and if there is a market for it for guys who cant afford a Tanzanian or Botswana lion hunt but can satisfy his desire for 25K in SA, let him have at it for goodness sake. A SA PH told me that shooting a white rhino for $80,000 was like pacing off 50 yards from you Land Cruiser the turn around and shoot you Cruiser...I think I may want to shoot a canned lion instead... As much clout as a wet fart!! I can use that...thanks Hunting the box H Dudley Rogers Tshabezi Safaris Zimbabwe | |||
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Dudley, I never thought I'd say this about a Zim PH when he was talking about a subject related to African hunting but quite frankly you have no bloody idea of what you're talking about....... and incidentally, if you think canned lion shoots are restricted to RSA & don't also happen in Zim you're very much mistaken.  | |||
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Wow Shakari, er Steve"Shakari" Robinson, I am so sorry I offended you so much, boy I touched one of your buttons with what I thought was a simple opinion! OK I accept the fact that I have no beep idea what I am talking about, and I do not believe I said it did not happen in Zim, as we were talking about SA. Actually it may be the fact that we see things differently that I dont know what Im talking about. Dudley Rogers Tshabezi Safaris Zimbabwe | |||
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Dudley No-one but no-one hates canned lion hunting and everyone involved with it any more than I do and if you do a search here or on my own site, you'll find plenty of evidence of that but your comment that suggests canned lion shooting (I refuse to call it hunting) is in any way similar to the average SA plains game hunt shows a degree of ignorance that almost beggars belief. Sorry if that point of view is rather blunt but that's the long and the sort of it. | |||
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Occasionally I enjot "tilting at windmills"........ As long as the animals are raised and bred humanely......not drugged or abused........and released in a large enough area months prior to being HUNTED. I see no difference to this compared to a typical plains game hunt in a fenced area. It simply IS what it IS! IF ( and I have no real personal knowledge just what I read here ) Lions are in trouble, the larger the remaining gene pool the better. Again.........define canned? . | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JTEX: As long as the animals are raised and bred humanely......not drugged or abused........ and released in a large enough area months prior to being HUNTED. I see no difference to this compared to a typical plains game hunt in a fenced area. It simply IS what it IS!/QUOTE] Mate, that isn't what happens. A few years ago, Minister van Schalkwyk wanted to introduce a significant wilding period for SA pen bred lions but the lion breeders association threatened to sue him if he did so and the spineless moron took lions off of the dangerous animals list just before the proposal became law. The reason the breeders association were desperate not to have a wilding period was simple economics and here's why. Just working on the figures of one lion with a wilding period of 6 months or for ease of maths, 182 days. If the lion kills an average of 1 impala per day and each impala costs the landowner US$150 that equals US$27300. If 10 lions are introduced to the area that US$27300 turns into US$273000! If our single lion foregoes the impalas occasionally and instead kills 1 kudu worth US$700 per week, that totals US$18200 for the kudu alone over the same 182 day period. Bear in mind that a lion doesn't know the difference between an impala, a kudu a sable or a giraffe etc and costs can very rapidly escalate. and that's why canned lions are released a matter of hours or at the most days (rather than months or years) before some mucking foron comes in and shoots it. | |||
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I believe that's what's called a "SHART" Jesus saves, but Moses invests | |||
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Steve, I have taken clients to SA to get some animals they wanted to "shoot" and we went from paddock to paddock to whack their animals and to the point where my clients called the "shoot" off,while the operator was on the phone all day long ordering more little wild animals by the truckload for the "shoot so I am not too ignorant of what goes on there, but of course I don't compare to your wisdom in the matter but if individuals desire to "shoot" their lion I am not going to judge them, and I certainly do not "Hate" them. You need to relax a bit and allow people to sin like we all do. Dudley Rogers Tshabezi Safaris Zimbabwe | |||
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Dudley And you think all SA hunting areas are like that do you? You sin all you like but don't expect me to join you. I've always believed in good ethics and if you don't mind, I'll stick to that. | |||
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Dudley, I am not sure where in SA you have been, but hunting in 6 provinces I can honestly say I don't know a single operation even remotely close to what you describe above. It sounds like you were shooting in someones breeding pens, not on a hunting farm. I dont doubt that they may be around, but that said you should have known better than to take a client to a shitbox operation like that when there is such an abundance of high quality hunting on fair chase basis within reach with a simple look up and reference check. Did you know the operator you booked with? You may not like to hear this, but until you take the time to get to know the country you really should not be swinging that paintbrush of yours around the way you are. When you are next looking for species and want to hunt them, then give me a call. I am sure I can point you in the right direction. Cheers Ian Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Really? You mean the different species are not penned and you don't have to ruin the blue on your rifle by poking it through a fence? This South Africa place sounds quite interesting. Cheers ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Well actually Andrew, the skill lies in shooting the said animal whilst controlling the recoil enough to avoid said scratching. Hence the reason we call it canned "hunting" inferring the level of skill it takes to come home with the blueing still in tact. If there was no skill involved it would simply be canned shooting and all hunters would have blue barrels which it is plain to see we do not. Just ask Dudley Do Wrong. Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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But surely you could just get on top of your car and shoot it over the fence? What about tape on your barrel or a pair of wire cutters? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Don't be silly mate. You'd dent the roof if you got on top of it, tape on the barrel might pull the blueing off when removed & those wire fences cost a fortune!  | |||
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Of course you use the Hooker Car Door sticks--solves all the problems  | |||
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Ok, I understand the economic math. However, If a 'true wild' hunt costs $50,000 to $60,000 and has a long wait. Is there a market, for the hunt at say $45,000. If you can do it this year, instead of 2 years from now? I do not know the reply, but it seems a way to make all parties a bit more happy. | |||
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Unfortunately the ever increasing supermarket trophy collecting culture means there is a demand for it but (IMO) that doesn't make it right and although It's rare for me to agree with any SA political party, I reckon the IFP has both the policy and the reasoning behind it dead right in this case. | |||
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That would, at first, be considered unsporting conduct. The outrage at the practice would however only be short lived and SCI would then simply create a new classification for "canned lions taken with the aid of pliers", or "can openers" which would then make it quite normal to do so. "Can Openers" would be on the shelves at Cabelas before the month was out. Its a wonderful world Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Bicker all you want, but the way I see it? United we stand and divided we fall I agree with the fact that lion hunts in SÁ take pressure off other countries with wild populations and are more affordable to regular guys like me. Not much difference than lots of other hunts around the world It's just that wild lions diminishing numbers in wild put this whole thing in spotlight Life is so much fun and so many piss it away " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Yep! To each his own. DIVIDED WE FALL!!!!!!! . | |||
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All one needs do is look how Arnold Payne managed to transport a buffalo captured in Zimbabwe and have it shot in another country. As long as there are crooked PH around, and like minded clients whose only purpose in hunting is to brag about it. This continue. | |||
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I agree completely and that's exactly why I think ALL captive lion breeding should be strictly illegal with harsh punishments for breaking said law. I appreciate it'll mean fewer people will get a lion for their trophy room but don't see that as an issue at all because firstly, it's not a real hunting trophy anyway because it wasn't properly hunted. Secondly because the sport hunting trophy industry should be about hunting rather than room decoration and thirdly because we can't all have everything we want in life. I'd like a mid 60s Mercedes SL but can't afford one and have to live with that just as some want a lion but won't be able to afford it. As 'Ol Blue Eyes sang...... That's life! Mind you. I'm open to donations in the form of a mid 60s or early 70s Merc SL if anyone has one laying around! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting IFP Supports Calls to Ban Trophy Hunting of Lions in South Africa
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