Hearing conflicting reports about pistol hunting in Zimbabwe. All "stuffing" aside, am I going to have a problem getting my Thompson Contender and Freedom Arms revolver (scoped w/10 in bbl) in to hunt with?

No handguns in Zimbo, PERIOD



South Africa and Zambia no problem with handgun hunting



LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THE HUNTING AND SAFARI INDUSTRY



Tour and safari operators in Zimbabwe are required to be registered and licensed by the Zimbabwe Tourism Authority. Their Tour Operators license number should commence HOP...please ask for the operators number when booking your hunt. If he does not have one check on his bona fides through ZATSO or ZTA. Operators must have either their own, or hold a lease on, a suitable concession of land with accompanying animal quota.



Handgun hunting is not yet legal in Zimbabwe. Blackpowder hunting is legal provided the weapon complies with the requirements of the Third Schedule of the Firearms Act. Bowhunting is now regularised and clients should check with their operator in advance regarding bow weights pertinent to animal categories. The attending professional hunter must also hold a bowhunting license.



All hunting operators are required by law to provide the services of a Zimbabwe licensed Professional Hunter to accompany foreign hunters in Zimbabwe. Licensing of professional hunters is undertaken by National Parks who require candidates to write a Grade II exam followed by two years apprenticeship under the guidance of a Grade I (full license) hunter, and then write a Grade I examination and undergo a proficiency test in the field. Only professional hunters licensed in Zimbabwe may conduct hunts in Zimbabwe.





Peter

While handgun hunting is not legal in Zim. I have been advised that I will be able to bring a hand gun into Zim. Has that recently changed?

I can only relate my experience. My buddy has hunted in Zim the last two years with a pistol. I took my glock to Zim last year. At the border the girl asked if I was using my pistol for hunting. I said yes and she looked at my pistol and rifle, gave me a funny look and let it go.

I plan on taking my glock this year.

Regards, PG

PG, not sure about your bringing in any autoloader. You may have to reconsider and take a revolver.

You shouldn't have a problem. In February at SCI I was told that Zim had lifted it's restrictions on handguns. Last year you needed a government permit. I suggest you have your PH check again with the authorities just prior to departure to make sure the rules haven't changed back the other way.

475,



I took the glock last year and my partner has taken an auto the last two years--desert eagle. My PH says not a problem. Plus, I can't hit anything with them darn wheel guns.



Regards, PG

Well, that is good to hear. For many moons, autoloaders were proscribed. I guess you're taking a 10mm.

Technically, the provisions of ITAR do not allow the temporary export of any semi-automatic firearm, including a handgun. A Customs Officer in the US could give you some trouble upon return.

Regards,

Terry

475,
Last year it was a 9mm. This year 10mm. Things sure are larger over there!

Terry,
I guess I will take my chances with the old glock. It is the plane ride that concerns me, considering our excitement on the flight out of Atlanta last year.

Where are you all going this year?

Regards, PG

The official Line:-

Handgun hunting is still continueing on a "trial" Basis in Zimbabwe. To ensure that you have no problems importing the handgun, make sure your operator gets the temp import permit from Central Firearms Registry (Mr J. Tavengwa is the registra) BEFORE you arrive. Mr Tavengwa is well aware that Parks have been allowing handgun hunts again.

Hangun hunting was legal in zim until 1990 when SI 362 introduced a minimum barrel length of 500mm (20")for a hunting weapon. This was so we had extra legislation to hammer poachers with ( who used AK's) Unfortunately, Graham Nott, the Chief investigations officer who pushed that piece of legislation through didn't think about handgun hunting.

The battle to get things changed has been going on since 1996, but with the high staff turn over in parks there has been a lack on continuety. Charlie Haley, Head of our Police Forensic Balistics lab, conducted tests on penetration and accuracy and gave the green light in 1996. I shot an elephant and a Buff with a .41 mag (both one shot kills) as a demonstration for the Chief Warden and Deputy Director (Management) in 1997, and we are still chasing our tails. However with at least 10 hunts booked and approved by the Director General and a digging out of the old files, we are hoping to see real change this year.

(and NO, just because I shot an Ele and a Buff with some fancy loads in a .41 does not make a Marlin leaver action the ideal african rifle!!!!!)

However, I have it on good authority that said 41mag is hell on garage doors, steel camping trunks and aluminium kettles seeking shelter in aforementioned steel trunk

Gayana-
Thanks for the post. Some other folks have mentioned bringing in pistols that are not normally considered hunting arms (Glocks) by officials for personal carry, how is that going now?

HUNTING INFORMATION FORM - NATIONAL PARKS

Parks require ALL BOW HUNTS, HANDGUN HUNTS and HUNTS WITH HOUNDS to complete a HUNTING INFORMATION FORM to be submitted to Parks with the TR2 form at the end of the hunt.

OPERATORS WHO DO NOT COMPLY WILL NOT BE ISSUED WITH BOWHUNT, HANDGUN HUNT OR DOG HUNT PERMITS NEXT YEAR.

These forms are available from the Permits Office, National parks, Harare, or from our office in Harare. We shall endeavour to send out copies with the permits where possible.
Please feel free to photocoopy them for your own use.
Yrs
Sally B
ZATSO


Mrs. S. G. Bown
Administrative Officer

For further information when visiting Zimbabwe contact our Associations:-

Zimbabwe Association of Tour & Safari Operators
Inbound Tour Operators of Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe Professional Hunters & Guides Association

18 Walter Hill Avenue, Eastlea, Harare, Zimbabwe
Tel: 263-4-702402 Fax: 263-4-707306
E-mail: zatso@mweb.co.zw


500 Nitro.

It just goes to prove that a .41 is efficiently lethal against hardened aluminium criminal cooking pots nomatter how much cover they are hiding behind

Thanks for the info everyone. Seems bout as clear as muddy water but I've gone to the trouble to get my outfitter to reassure me that he can get the pistols in.

I contacted my Safari company and was assured there is "no problem" getting my handgun into Zim. I am taking a 4 " S&W 44 Mag.

N E 450, No.2

Since the whole subject of "legal" may be up in the air, I won't mention what country I was in or when - but being a 63 year old man who had to get up one time anyway during the night (you young bucks will find out one day!) my kind hearted PH loaned me a Colt Python, 357 Mag. to give me moral comfort on my nightly trip. (I had been assured that snakes were in hibernation in May but I didn't remind him he had told me that) In seriousness, it was the puff adder I was watching for. One night, returning to my tent, I saw a snake right at the edge of the tent. Cooly and calmly (I'm telling this story)I brought up the Colt. Since I wanted to be dead sure I didn't rely on the Colt Python's marvelous feel in double action. I cocked the revolver. It was then and taking a second look, that I realized that I was aiming at the trailing tent flap rope. I quietly went to bed - and made sure not to tell the PH about it until the day I left! I hope you put that 44 Mag to better use!

Actually I hope I do not have to use the 44 at all. However I will have a few Speer shot shells along for the ride. I will take some of Garretts Hammerheads, and some Speer 270 Gold Dot Soft Points. At the range I would be using it they all shoot close enough for "Government work".
If possible I might try some penetration tests on buff.

I just feel better around wild game with the 44. I stand a much better chance of keeping something off, or getting something off, of me with the 44.

N E 450 No.2

If you are comfortable with a 44 Mag. that's fine but quite honestly, a 44 Mag will not feel like much around a Cape buffalo, much less an elephant. I don't know about lion because I never faced any but from what I heard, a lion is not simply an angry alley cat. What I want to urge to you is that the pistol (and I carried one routinely for many years in the States)really doesn't fit in Africa except for the limited purpose of shooting snakes perhaps.If you are being confronted with a lot of red tape to get the weapon over to Africa, then my honest advice would be to leave it at home (and borrow your PH's piece if you have to make nightly trips to the latrine!)

My PH has assured me there is "no problem" getting the pistol in/out of the country. While it might not kill an elephant who is charging, it just might turn him, you never know. I have all the confidence in the 44.s ability to shoot through the brain if any other animal on the planet.
You can debate the merits of "hunting" buff or lion with a 44, but self protecrion is a whole different ball of wax.
I have done enough penetration tests on large animal skulls to know I am MUCH better off with it than with out it.
Even when hunting with my rifle if 2 shots do not do it, and the animal makes contact there is no gun I had rather have than a double action 44 with the proper ammo.
I had a fella tell me ont time "A 600 Nitro Double Rifle is the Best Insurance a fella can have".
He might be partially right. However, I believe in
DOUBLE INDEMNITY. My 44 is my second insurance policy.
I don't leave home without it.

I don't take my pistol for hunting. I rarely carry it in Zim. It is for my sight-seeing trips in RSA. They issue you a permit to carry it loaded and concealed when you land.

Ain't life grand.

Regards, PG

As for shooting snakes....I saw a man empty his revolver at a puff adder in RSA and miss every damn time, we killed it with a stick! I am certain the .44 will take care of most things you are likely to encounter, 2 or 4 legged...
Are you allowed to bring a CC weapon into RSA under the new regs?

If you are taking a pistol for self protection in the cities you might want to consider the method preferred by urban african muggers. You will be marked as a target and then followed until the environment favors an attack. They have all day and a lot of patients. Multiple bogeys will swarm you simultaneously and effectively disarm you in the process of the mugging. Then they will have a your money, watch, camera, passport, and your gun. They are expert at this and you will not have any idea that you are their target until several hands grab onto you.

Carrying concealed is a pain in the ass in another way. To enter many resturants, banks, jewelry stores, and other facilities you will be wanded by a security guard and then asked to return the weapon in your car. That return trip to your vehicle will not go unobserved. Your car is now a worthy target for a break-in.

My advice is to go with an armed guide who knows his way around.

I think I would only take a handgun hunting if I were hunting leopard or lion from a blind. If the cat got on top of me, there is a small chance I could get the handgun out for a shot. It would be more about peace of mind than anything else.

If I were going to RSA, I would take a handgun and extra clips because the RSA crime rate is outrageously high.

For ZIM, I would just make a beeline from the airport to the concession and things will be fine. Any foreigners who hang out in African cities are asking for trouble.

Boghossian:

You never saw me in action against a puff adder! I know I would have been deadly.

P.S. Did I mention that I had never fired the PH's piece? That puff adder would have been dead anyway! Right? Right?

I have noticed that this thread is going on pretty strong. I also noticed that the pro is about 90% and cons about 10%. The ones that seem to say don't take a sidearm for protection have obviously never carried a handgun for any purpose at all. It is like the liberal socialistic way of thinking--Don't have a handgun, you'll get hurt with it and have it taken away. Most (99.99%) of the guys I know who carry everyday are not unawares. You just don't walk around any city in the world in condition zero (totally brain dead) while carrying legally. If I had a chance to go there, I and my partner will both carrying legally and will looking around in condition yellow to condition red at all times. You just don't go walking around by yourself like a sheep to the slaughter. One always has safety in numbers. In fact, I'm sure the arrangements can be made with a few extra bodies around for sight-seeing and shopping for gew-gaws just for safety. Nuff said.

475Guy:

I carried a pistol routinely for years in the States. Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about - nor do any of the other Rambos who want to carry a pistol against African DG. Did you ever see an African elephant at, say, 50 feet? Did you ever see a Cape buffalo at, say, 75 feet and turning to come at you? Do you really think that you will ever get the time to use your Clint Eastwood Special on a charging lion-after your rifle shots failed and after the PH can't drop him? (Why do I always hear about the 44 Mag? I have watched people on pistol ranges from NY to NM who seemed to jump half way down the range flinching in shooting it. If the rifle in your hands isn't good enough to keep you from being stomped or clawed, what is your basis for saying that a pistol will save you?)

Dude, this isn't about carrying concealed for animals. It is about carrying concealed for two legged critters. I don't think you're thinking through anything before you post it.

gerald416
With the exception of elephant, I have no doubt that a 44 slug in the right place will IMMEDIATELY kill any other animal on the planet. Would I would be successful in repelling a charge with my 44??? Who knows??? But if I have it with me I MIGHT have a chance. But I do know this, the biggest most powerfull rifle in the world is USELESS once the animal has contact, with my 44 I just might be able to shoot the beast off of me. Much better than a sharp stick in the eye.
I am pretty handy with the steel... if you know what I mean... I will have the proper ammo, and I have a plan....
My plan if attacked is NOT to put my head between my legs and kiss my ass good by.
Awareness is a big part of the plan, Code Orange is the Color of the day when in Dangerous country [doesnot matter if the danger is 2 legged or 4 legged]. Also IMMEDIATE action is required when you become aware of the danger.
A handgun alone does not make you safe..... But a Handgun with a Plan will.
Those of you that do not carry a handgun might want to carry a bucket of sand to stick your head in at the first sign of danger.

For snakes the Speer shotshells work very well. They also kill small game farther away than you would first think. Durring snake season I carry 2 Speer shot shells and 4 regular loads in my 44.

475Guy,

First of all, my reasoning behind saying that an average hunting tourist will be better off leaving their handguns at home is not that I have no handgun experiance. I'd have to say that it's quite the opposite after spending quite a lot of time in uniform with a handgun as backup to an MP5, and in civilian cloths (in a military capacity) with a concealed sidearm. I also have a private sidearm.

My experiances in African citys combined with my previous handgun knowledge have lead me to belive what I wrote after carefull thought. I can practically guarantee that chances are you wouldn't make it in a situation with a gang in Africa even if both you and your buddy were armed if you tried to resist. You might take a few of them out, but that doesn't really help much when you're shot or stabbed to death by all the other badguys left. There are usually just too many of them, they're too good at what they do, and then there are undoubtably the ones who aren't openly directly involved, but hover unexposed waiting to step in if things go wrong for their banditt team.

We're also talking about presumably a vacation setting, and not entering a country with other intentions, expecting shit to hit the fan! Being aware is as both you and I stated very important. However, if you have been to an typical african marked, or walked down a busy african street (I'm not talking about nice places like Cape Town, Khartoum, Gabarone or Dar Es Salaam etc. but more hostile cities like Cotonou, Niamey, Ndjamena and the likes), then the amount of people in the frenzy like crowd can make it next to impossible to have control over the situation. The victim is usually on the ground before they even knew what hit them.

The above way of thinking is as I see it suitable for crowded areas, markets etc. Driving along, or walking in areas with less people (and thus less chaos) is a differant matter IMO. Then a handgun can have a function if the carrier knows how to us it in a stress situation, and has suitable training.

To boil it all down, the most important weapon against banditts who out number and out gun you is using ones brain to survive. Even if that means putting your hands up in some situations. To be honost, sometimes it's best to swallow ones pride or "gung-ho" attitude. We are talking about loosing you wallet, not surrendering your country (which is very differant, and worth going up against impossible odds IMO)!

Erik D.

475Guy

I have found the S&W 44 mag 4" to be the best allround handgun where field and city use are necessary on the same trip and only one handgun can be carried. I prefer the semi-auto for the city but the 44 with speed loaders is almost as fast. I just carry 6 city loads if I will be traveling much in a town. After the first 6 shots everyone will be behind cover, so the big game loads will do the job if more than 6 are necessary.

I carry 2 holsters, a Milt Sparks Summer Special for the city, and a DeSantis crossdraw for the field.

NE, my favorite carry piece is the 1911A1 in condition one and I was into revolvers for years for defense and PPC. If I was carrying an N frame, my favorite was a S&W Mod 58 in 41 Mag. I've used all the holsters that you've mentioned.

With all due respect:

475 and 450 are spot on in my book. I have spent time in RSA in their cities as well as Los Angeles, New York etc. Be prepared, be alert and be armed is my way of looking at life. Many times I am with others who are armed and are guides.

Experience has taught me that depending on someone else for your well-being is false economy. This applies to both sight-seeing as well as hunting.

The swarm attack method is used here in the US as well.

The choice is an individual one. Everyone has a reason for their choice and I respect that. There is no glory in the use of deadly force against another person, though sometimes it is, unfortunately, necessary.

May you never have to face this situation,

Regards, PG

Have you considered what sort of hell you might have to go through if you put a few slugs into some bad guys in an african city?

As someone who carries a concealed weapon daily I know for a fact the legal process that I would be subjected to here in Texas as the consequences of a self defense shooting. There are criminal hurtles (grand jury), and civil procedures (wrongful death litigation), that would be rather expensive in time and financial resources.

So the thought of rotting in an african shit hole of a jail for shooting a citizen of some african country is not worth whatever cash and jewelry the bandits might take off me in a mugging.

Here is how I avoid getting mugged in New York: I stay out of New York. It is a technique that works just great. Since implementing the technique in 1986, I have a 100% success rate.

I intend to implement the same technique with regard to all African cities. If I have to stay overnight, I will lie low at the hotel or B&B. The benefits of walking about an African city are far outweighed by the detriments of being attacked by a gang of thugs, even if the thugs only want some cash and do not intend to kill.

It's just not worth it.

Muletrain and Erik,
I am very familiar with what can happen after a shooting. You have the right to look at this situation your way and I and others look at it our way.

I refuse to rely upon the "humanity and decency" of those who would visit crimes upon me, for there is no guarantee that even if one submits they shall be safe.

Enough of these negative thoughts, good hunting and best wishes to all.

Regards, PG

500Nitro and Ganyana



Yes!!! Not only is the gun and ammo hell on the items mentioned in 500 Nitro's post, but provides an intolerable percussive effect in a closed block room that will render 3 grown men stunned and deaf for hours. Much better than the best flash/bang on the market. However, seeing the penetration of said gun and load I would gladly attack doors, sleeping bags, safari trunks, rice bags and aluminium pots or any combination of the above any day. All items were shot under fair chase and hit in vital areas with a single shot.



Perry