In this age of websites and email, what necessary function does the booking agent serve? Why not just communicate directly with the outfitter?

this is going to get you alot of answers. but for one - how about because you are going someplace new and don't know any outfitters there

I meant, for those who've been to Africa before. And especially when you've been directed to an outfitter by a booking agent on one trip and now want to use the same outfitter on another trip. Do you pay more for going thru the booking agent than booking directly?

I am not trying to destroy anyone's livihood, I am just curious.

My personal guess is that the booking agent is a guarantee that you won't have to deal with an unscrupulous outfitter, since he (the agent) can stop sending clients to the outfitter, and if he has been sending a lot, this could be a very big deal for the outfitter.

Booking through an agent and then booking a return direct with the outfitter behind the agents back is LOW RENT...

Jeff

I wouldn't want to do that, either, but really, I wonder how many do? It would be easy to rationalize that the agent was paid for services performed on the first hunt, and that after that you are free to deal directly with the outfitter (especially if he has a webpage).

Depends on how much stock you put in loyalty and honesty.

Don't forget someone to lend a hand when it all goes bad.

Jeff

Your are partialy right. In this day and age you can find out enough on websites like this to not need a booking agent or travel agent. I went with a very popular bowhunting outfitter in RSA. You can find dozens of hunting reports pics etc. just by surfing the web. I also only took one plane from atlanta to Joburg. I didnt use a travel agent either
On the other hand. When you call up a booking agent, tell him what you want you will get good advise and info. (for the most part) These guys make there living off of providing a service to make it easier to go on a hunt. They ones who screw people over dont last long.
I would think a booking agent is especialy helpful on more complicated hunts. Those for DG or less common species like sititunga, Ibex, etc.

If you book with an agent on the first trip and then book other trips with same outfit, I believe they still pay a commission to the original agent.

At least that is what I was told but I guess you never really know. Maybe I am naive.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
I meant, for those who've been to Africa before. And especially when you've been directed to an outfitter by a booking agent on one trip and now want to use the same outfitter on another trip. Do you pay more for going thru the booking agent than booking directly?

I am not trying to destroy anyone's livihood, I am just curious.

My personal guess is that the booking agent is a guarantee that you won't have to deal with an unscrupulous outfitter, since he (the agent) can stop sending clients to the outfitter, and if he has been sending a lot, this could be a very big deal for the outfitter.

I don't know that any given booking agent is any more ethical than the outfitter. They tell you what you want to hear too. Personal references might be better or just as good.

A well-known booking agent sent these two old guys to the Zambezi valley in September when I was there and told them they only needed long sleeve shirts and long pants.

Your mileage may vary.

Agents come in good, bad & ugly. Get a good one and both outfitter & client benefit. Get any of the others and they're nothing but trouble...... Usually, very big trouble.

Unfortunately, for every good one there are several (at least) of the other kinds and one of the biggest problems are the guys who visit Africa a time or two (at most) and then go home and become an instant agent for their new best friend in Africa.

These guys only need a laptop and an internet connection and can set up a cheap website in less than an hour and then any poor sucker can come along, see the site and think they've found someone to guide them down the complicated path of a first safari...... in reality, they could know more about it than the instant agent.

There's also the kind who set up a website etc and the reality is the only thing they're after is cheap hunting for themselves and if that has to be at the expense of other hunters, then their attitude is 'so be it'..... then the hunters suffer as does the outfitter.

As I said though, get a really good one and they can be worth their weight in gold.

Postoak,

If you were happy with the service your booking agent provided and you were going to hunt with the same outfitter on another trip I would think you'd want to use the same agent again. If you think basically the agent just took you money and passed it on to the operator and/or misrepresented the hunt in some way perhaps you should try a different agent.

A reputable agent will walk you through and assist with all aspects of your safari from the day you book until your trophies arrive in the States. You won't be left wondering what do I do next in any situation.

You mentioned with the assistance of the Internet anybody can pick a good operator. What I can say to that is a website means very little. It means that the operator has good computer skills or knows someone that does. A number of the best operators I know have minimal websites or none at all.

Mark

Mark, I was very happy with my booking agent! I guess the question arose because I met several happy hunters during the trip who supplied me with the names of THEIR outfitters.

What's the correct thing to do in a situation like that, 1) see if your agent can place you with that outfitter, 2) contact the outfitter directly, 3) contact the outfitter using the agent the other guys used?

The Hunting Report and forums like this one are helpful for investigating outfitters if one chooses to go without a booking agent, but all the due diligence in the world won't protect you from the first time an outfitter does a bad job. I have had a number of good experiences booking directly and one bad experience booking through an agent. In the case of the bad hunt, my pre-hunt due diligence on the Hunting Report and on AR and other forums did not help me. However, that outfitter now has two bad reports on the Hunting Report, so others will have more help than I did in making the right choice.

It seems a booking agent is probably a good idea for anyone who is nervous about sending a bunch of money overseas. Also, if a booking agent has hunted with the outfitters he books for, he can be a great resource for the hunter in terms of setting expectations -- so long as he's honest. I think in choosing an agent, I might ask for references who had experienced difficulties with their hunts but still felt good about the agent. As in much of life, it's easy to be good when things are going well, but the truly great ones shine during difficult times.

Speaking from my experience, as a first time hunter in Africa last year, I'm glad we used an agent. They handled lots of logistical details and answered many questions along the way. Also the safety of having funds deposited on this side of the pond settled those first time jitters as well.

We hunted with Mokore Safaris in Zim and Mark Young was our agent. Both did an outstanding job and will use both again.

Someone who has had multiple trips, especially with the same outfitter, might have a different perspective but there are intangibles to using a stateside agent that are hard to argue with - at least in my experience.

postoak, let me explain it from a different perspective: when I meet and/or hunt with a new Guide or PH, and they tell me they will honor our contract by paying the usual commission from my bookings, whether my clients return via my business or book future hunts on their own, I know I'm dealing with an honorable man (or woman) with integrity, and 99.5% of the time, those said Guides/PH's are going to provide my clients with the best service possible. As they tell me, I brought the client's to them, and repeat business should be rewarded by earned commission. Those that skip those "details" are the ones I find that generally will try and pull something over on me, and if they will screw their own agent...well, you get my point.

As Mark stated, a good agent should stay with their clients until their trophies are home, and assist in any problems that may arise. I feel the same way about Travel Agents. If you need them when your stuck in BFE, you NEED them. Myself and many friends have experienced minor to major travel problems, from documents, baggage hassles, gun fiasco's, hotel reservations to the ever present trophy shipping issues. I use travel agents 80% of the time and on a number of occasions I hunt via other booking agents...because I trust them and have yet to be let down in any facet. Most of my clients like the fact that I assist them from planning to hanging their trophies at home. Believe it or not, most agents earn their commission...the hard way.
LDK

What about one of the situations I outlined above, where you want to go with an outfitter who is highly recommended by someone you know, and he has the facilities, location, game, and prices you want. What do you then? Do you ask your agent to contact him? Will agents do that?

Postoak

If you want to book with someone your agent doesn't represent that is your choice. It happens to every agent. No agent has everything that everybody wants. You are under no obligation to rebook with him.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
What about one of the situations I outlined above, where you want to go with an outfitter who is highly recommended by someone you know, and he has the facilities, location, game, and prices you want. What do you then? Do you ask your agent to contact him? Will agents do that?

Postoak,
I am not an agent. I am a hunter. I have arranged hunts four different ways.

1. I acted as agent for 4 families with an outfit in South Africa that I did not know or have a relationship with. I arranged the prices, air travel and discounts. It was a pain in the rear as I got in between good friends and the outfitter trying to sort out things I did not know much about. There were gun forms to fill out, a transfer to arrange, shipping hides back to the US, arranging a taxidermist and seeing that every one had fun.
Never again, no matter what. Let the agent do this stuff and earn his money.

2. I used an agent to arrange everything from prices to charters to permits to airplane tickets. He even handled telling me where to get shots and malaria meds. He listened to my needs/wants and clarified expectations. He arranged for me to meet the outfitter at DSC. It all went well. No suprises.

3. I used an agent to arrange a hunt. Made the deal. Sent the deposit with a full contract and agreement stating what each side provides. I cancelled. The outfitter kept my deposit. The agent paid me back even though the outfitter was not an honorable person or company. It took 2 years, but he refunded my deposit. I have since booked 2 hunts with him.

4. I booked direct with an outfit that does not use an agent. Met them face to face in Dallas, put the money down and went on the hunt. He did everything he said he would do and was 100% honest. Have had delays getting the trophies out but will get them. An agent may be able to push the dip and pack process and the freight forwarded better than I can.

In the end, I prefer to use an agent. I prefer to have someone that can help me "see" problems before they arise.

There are many good agents out there, Mark Young, who has responded to you and he is a good guy. There are others also.

Good luck.

I have done it both ways. The first time (without) everything went fine, lucky for me. The second time I went with Wendell who booked me with Tholo in Botswana. When I got to Windhoek I had a problem with the connecting flight to Maun. I called Wendell in thi middle of the night (his time) and within a few hours he had it sorted out to get me to Botswana and Tholo ON TIME. Enough said!
John

Gentlemen - As an agent myself, obviously my opinion is biased, so take it for what it is. But setting aside the advantages of an agent, that I obviously believe in. Such as help in arranging details, flights, outfitter/client relations should there be problems, holding trophy fees/daily rates in a U.S. account when asked to do so, etc, etc. To me, a GOOD agent can provide what to many is the most important thing, a really good hunt!

As already stated, e-mail and wesbite communications have made it easy for hunters to contact outfitters directly, and many do. Certainly nothing wrong with that at all. But as an outfitter too, let me assure you, I will always think my hunts offered as an outfitter, are the best thing going. If I have only one elk hunt, or one elk hunting area to sell, well of course that's gonna be the one I suggest you buy.

However, a good agent with lots of experience throughout Africa for example. Is gonna listen to your wants/needs, and hopefully suggest to you the hunt that best fits your criteria, not just the only one he has to sell. For example, lets say you are looking for a buffalo hunt. I get this request all the time, as do others agents, I'm sure. But because I have buffalo hunts to offer all over eastern/southern Africa, I usually start with a couple of questions.

1. What's your expected budget? No sense trying to offer a hunt to a potential client that's outside of his anticipated budget.

2. What's your trophy criteria/expectations if you have one? Sometimes clients are looking for an opportunity at a huge buffalo, but can only afford a $10,000 hunt. Not that a big buffalo can't be taken on that hunt, but odds are they will likely get a 36" - 38" bull, and not the 42" bull they are hoping for.

3. What style of hunt are you looking for? Meaning are you looking for really great accommodations, a comfortable - bug free environment, etc.

4. What's your physical/hunter ability? Some guys want miles of tracking, slushing through the muck, feeling like they really earned their trophy. Others, not so much!

5. Are you looking to combine other species? I have frequently received requests like, " I would like to hunt buffalo, and combine it with Red Hartebeest, Lechwe and one of those Grant's Gazelles"? All on one hunt I ask, "yep"!

Of course there are others, but this is just an example. Thus, I honestly feel that a qualified and experienced agent can really be of use in these situations.

While many of you are busy throughout the day as a contractor, doctor, attorney, farmer, etc. A full-time agent is spending his entire work day focusing on the business of hunting, nothing more. It follows to reason that he perhaps might have insight and experience into hunts/areas/outfitters and options that simply might not be known to the general hunter. As I can only speak about myself, I will give you my personal experience. I have spent the past 16 yrs hunting Africa, spending as much as 8 weeks on the dark continent at one time. Traveling between as many as 3 countries on one trip, hunting and experiencing different operators, camps and hunting areas. This experience allows me to offer/represent a wide variety of buffalo hunts for the guy enquiring about the example listed above. So I use the info he provides, coupled with the personal hunting experience I have with multiple outfitters/countries/areas offering buffalo hunts, and fit his hunt criteria to the hunt which best suits he needs. Which in my opinion, provides the hunter an unbiased assessment of multiple hunts which might be appealing. Something you will not get when inquiring directly with an outfitter. As I mentioned earlier, he has his hunts to sell, and of course, that's what he's gonna recommend. I'm gonna recommend the hunt that I think REALLY fits best for this particular client, as I benefit when he buys any of the available hunts. So to me, providing him with the best hunt possible is in everyone's best interest. All of this experience is of particular importance when one is looking for some of the more unique species/hunting opportunities as well. Especially when they are ones that are not routinely discussed/experienced by most African hunters.

Lastly, sometimes an experienced agent will have contacts and experiences with outfitters that are not well-known, popular, or in areas that are again not well known to much of the general hunting public. I have one such outfitter in the Limpopo province of SA. Who in my opinion, is the single best/experienced leopard guy I have ever hunted with! His success rate on huge leopard is un-real, and he's a fabulous host too. When I have a guy who says he's looking for a big leopard, and the leopard is the only priority, this outfitter is always my first consideration!

I do not mean to insinuate many of you are not perfectly capable of booking your own hunts, nor do I mean to insinuate many of you are not very experienced African hunters. I simply advocate that for some, an agent can be a very useful tool. Especially when considering that our service is not an additional charge to the client. Agents aren't perfect, and we certainly don't know everything. But we can be a good resource for those that find our experience valuable.

Well said Aaron! +1

I did my own booking.

The guy I am hunting with as a partner is a co worker and he has hunted with this PH 6 times and so has his wife. I have personally met teh PH at least 3 times when he has visited the states. So I am prety comfortable with the PH.

Now when I decide to start dealing with somethign outside of my comfortsone such as ohhhhs ay a HUGE leopard well I cam going to be calling Aaron right off.

I expected Blair Worldwide to post here and encourage us to book with him.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I expected Blair Worldwide to post here and encourage us to book with him.
Cal

Cal now that is some funny stuff.... lol

BTW when am i going to put you infront of a BIG buffalo bull with those brick throwers of yours that you call rifles? keep well

Well this is a good topic, my view.

1. A good PH you will become friends with you after a hunt and stay in contact. But if you booked the first hunt with an agent then you must go through him again. If he is a good agent then he will give the PH more than 1 trip a year so your single hunt is not worth much to him. So stay above board.

2. I have to pay the special rate or I do not go. But an agent will know that and work on a deal for you. You can have a special rate and still book through an agent.

3. I am alway worried about loosing my hard earned money, so I have used agents in Australia where the money is held until after the hunt. After all I know where they live if I get ripped off.

4. They should have hunted with the outfitter before or you should not go.

5. Can lend poor people like me some gear if we do not have it.

6. Can arrange group hunts where you travel together and all save.

7. Better understanding of all costs and can understand what you can afford. Some times a PH will only be interested in the hunt.

8. Make the booking agent responsable until your trophies arrive back in your home country. After all they need to offer the whole package or it is not worth wile.

9. A good agent should view the trip through the clients eyes, not just another way to get a hunter on there books.

Any way my 2 cents.

For a major hunt like africa I think an agent is a good idea. Can give you a net work of previous hunter to talk with. Just need to push them for the good price.

Like I said you know where they live.

quote:

3. I am alway worried about loosing my hard earned money, so I have used agents in Australia where the money is held until after the hunt. After all I know where they live if I get ripped off.

I hope some of our outfitters can shed some light on this.

My understanding is, no African country will allow you to start your hunt if the money has not been paid in advance.

As an outfitter I see a lot of value in the work my good agents do ... introducing quality clients, handling a lot of the details & paperwork and generally representing my company when and where I cannot be present.

Those good agents are always full-time and invariably outfitters in their own right - guys like Aaron Neilson, Greg Rodriguez, Corey Knowlton, Jack Atcheson, Geoff Hashimoto, Mark Audino, etc - guys who are dedicated to hunting!! Each of them offers a certain security to their clients, which I know their clients appreciate. There is also a high level of trust in these arrangements....

Whether or not one chooses to use the services of a booking agent might depend, at least partially, upon how experienced one is at researching hunts and how many he has gone on. I think if I were starting out and had limited financial resources, I might be much more inclined to use an agent because an ethical agent takes care of most of the grunt work and all you have to do is go and have a good time. Can you get a lousy hunting trip from even a highly ethical booking agent? You certainly can, but the chances of that are much less than if you book yourself.

Another key factor is whether or not you actually have the time to do all that is necessary. Since I am retired and have learned how to say "no" to those who think I have unlimited time to devote to their project I have the time to do the research.

Perhaps I am just a bit more willing to take risks, but I have bought hunts at auction without doing much in the way of research, and have also booked them at shows. So far I have had a grand total of three hunts that I would categorize as unsatisfactory. On all three of them I actually took the game animal(s) for which I booked the trip, which goes to show that at least for me, there is more to a great hunting experience than just taking game. Maybe I'm just lucky. Since I retired I have gone on over 60 guided or semi-guided hunts out of the state in which I live. A friend who recently visited with us (he posts here) told me that out of ten trips he has had three bad ones. I wonder how others have faired?

quote:

I do not mean to insinuate many of you are not perfectly capable of booking your own hunts, nor do I mean to insinuate many of you are not very experienced African hunters. I simply advocate that for some, an agent can be a very useful tool. Especially when considering that our service is not an additional charge to the client. Agents aren't perfect, and we certainly don't know everything. But we can be a good resource for those that find our experience valuable.

If you are a full time agent you live, eat and breath the hunting business. It's just not logical that the average hunter regardless of personal experience will have the same level of knowledge and current information.

I spoke with Jamie Cowan who is our office manager yesterday about the services we provide at Adam Clements Safari Trackers. Some of you will know Jamie and are familiar with her level of attention to detail. I wanted to organize a list of what services we provided but as usual she cut straight to the chase and said to just tell folks that once they commit they can just relax. We will handle everything or prompt the client on what he may have to do himself. It rteally is that simple.

Mark

quote:

Do you pay more for going thru the booking agent than booking directly?

Postoak,

The answer to your question is no. It's darn near impossible to get a straight answer to this question. I'll divulge a few booking industry secrets here.

So here goes. I took a stab at the booking agent thing a while back and worked for an experienced established booking agent in the Denver area for three years before I decided that it was a major PITA when compared to the returns on my time. A good booking agent is a busy person with no end to small brush fires needing extinguishing at all times of the day and night. It's not for me I decided, but it was an eye opening experience.

Booking agents are paid a percentage of your daily fee's usually around 15% of your total daily fee's plus or minus depending on the country and the type of hunt. In some areas usually on private farm hunts they may make a smaller daily fee percentage but earn a percentage on your trophy fee's as well. It all depends on the arraignment they have with the outfitter. Sometimes they simply make a straight fee for booking you with an outfitter. In any case there aren't very many booking agents who are getting wealthy from the business.

All of these booking fee's should be invisible to you the client as they are predicated on the listed retail price of the hunt. In other words you should never see the agents 15% as it's already figured into the operating cost to the operator and included in his listed price.

Of course there are some unethical SOB's in the booking business just like any business. I've seen agents who try to charge you a percentage on your charter fee's or charge add on service fee's after the fact. In one case I was involved with a client who had been quoted a by another booking agent who tried to charge each member of the hunting party $1100 for the charter for a total of $5500 when in fact the total charter cost was $1100 round trip and each were required only to pay a shared portion of that amount.

So you do need to watch out for the dirty little tricks some unsavory bastards will try to pull. Another scam I've seen are outfitters who give a no agent fee price and allow an agent to add on whatever they'd like over their price. Of course an ethical agent won't take these deals and if they do they don't try and shoot for the moon but there are those out there who will.

The worst hunt I've ever had was one in which I knew the PH and had a contracted with him personally to hunt in an area that he was subletting for my hunt. We agreed on the terms of the hunt, daily fee's, how the hunt would be conducted ETC.

I showed up on the agreed date and basically nothing went as planned. We wasted the whole first day trying to scrounge up a game scout @ $900.00 a day. (That should have been a gratis or an add on day.) We did not conduct the hunt as it was agreed to which was fly camp and primarily on foot. Instead I got stuffed into a busy commercial camp in between hunting parties and was the odd man out, not to mention I got stuffed in THE camp I told the PH I did NOT want to stay at as I can't stand the place. ON top of that we primarily drove around and did little walking which makes me NUTS!!

Of the animals we had agreed to hunt I heard either excuses as to why we weren't seeing any even though I was promised good numbers and knew better as I'd hunted this area before. I was simply being given the good old "We'll make a plan" BS, of course it was a plan that was never meant to work out as I don't think the quota was ever arraigned for my hunt. I've done this enough that I can tell when I'm being played and smoothed over. And that was exactly what was happening.

When I left I told the the PH that I wasn't interested in sending home the one animal I did shoot a one horned buff in the 9 (supposed to be 10 day hunt) as it was a crappy trophy, a screw up, that I had no interest in blowing multiple thousands of bucks to send home.

When I got home and got the final bill the daily fee's where billed at a higher rate than was contracted, they tried to snag me for dip and ship and they tried to snag me for a full charter fee even though it was a shared charter.

Moral of the story of the story here is if I had been clueless they'd have snagged me on all of those extras. And that is why a good booking agent is worth their weight in gold and a poor one is less than worthless in fact a liability.

A good booking agent catches all these things and takes care of them, you as the client shouldn't even know they occurred. He also ensures that the things like a whole day of wasted hunting due to a screw up like I had would be solved in regards to the clients liking.

The trick is to find a reputable, proven, trustworthy booking booking agent. And that in itself can be an issue. I'll say this, a good booking agent more than earns their 15% on any hunt I don't know how most of these guys do it and stay sane at the same time.

In closing I'll just say this, in over ten years of African hunting 6 DG hunts and multiple plains game hunts most of which I set up myself I have never had a bad hunt except for then one mentioned. That one was bad enough that it has pretty much soured me on hunting Africa. It just turns my stomach to be treated that way.

If I ever decide to hunt Africa again I want somebody here in the USA that can handle the BS aspects of a bad hunt. I just don't have the time or patients to deal with petty BS anymore. That's what an agent gets paid for.

My recommendation for any new hunter is to use reputable agent. Even if you know the PH like in my case, stuff can and will go sideways from time to time. Do yourself a favor and have a good strong agent in your corner. It makes the whole experience exponentially more enjoyable. And just might keep you from becoming jaded and uninterested like I'm afraid I've become.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Booking through an agent and then booking a return direct with the outfitter behind the agents back is LOW RENT...

Really? I have never done this myself but I don't think a client is absolutely married to an agent when they no longer really provide a service. Let's face it, most people view the services of an agent as temporary and, at most, agents serve to make a client feel like they have some recourse if things go completely sideways in a foreign country. Sometimes that is true, sometimes it is not as we all know.

I have informally booked people on hunts, been compensated, and had them go back repeatedly to that outfitter and I have never sought or received compensation for it from either the client or outfitter. In my mind, an agent screaming for his cut of the action years after an initial booking is what is truly "low rent".

Similarly, I have gone on hunts booked through an agent and gotten to know my PH (and others PHs) in the process and I don't think I owe the initial agent any sort of remuneration a year or two or three later for enabling those relationships to be formed. If I trust an outfitter, am familiar with the drill in that African country, wire the money, and book my own tickets, etc., I don't see how the agent has done anything warranting compensation. If I come to trust an outfitter I use (or one I meet on a hunt) I certainly don't feel the moral obligation to keep compensating the initial agent a decade after the first hunt took place. Now, if the outfitter wants to pay him on the side, that is a different matter but I don't see why they would. The agent's job is to facilitate new clients, the PH or outfitters job is to facilitate return business. Why compensate the agent as a PH because you did a good job as an outfitter and client wants to come back?

JMHO

quote:

I spoke with Jamie Cowan who is our office manager yesterday about the services we provide at Adam Clements Safari Trackers. Some of you will know Jamie and are familiar with her level of attention to detail. I wanted to organize a list of what services we provided but as usual she cut straight to the chase and said to just tell folks that once they commit they can just relax. We will handle everything or prompt the client on what he may have to do himself. It rteally is that simple.

Mark

Lets see now----remember that comment ---------“just relax---- We will handle everything” ----as I recall "that" is the system run by “Adam Clements Safari Trackers” that totally forgot to pick me up at the Dar Salaam airport --- would not answer a phone call --- totally forgot to get my rifle import permit --- left me stranded at the Sea Cliff Hotel without any contact --- all of which lost part of my hunting time------ but guess that really didn’t matter as all the shoot able buff in the area I was booked into were on vaca anyway ----

I refer back to those words of “just relax --- We will handle everything”-------you betcah!!!

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Booking through an agent and then booking a return direct with the outfitter behind the agents back is LOW RENT...

Really? I have never done this myself but I don't think a client is absolutely married to an agent when they no longer really provide a service. Let's face it, most people view the services of an agent as temporary and, at most, agents serve to make a client feel like they have some recourse if things go completely sideways in a foreign country. Sometimes that is true, sometimes it is not as we all know.

I have informally booked people on hunts, been compensated, and had them go back repeatedly to that outfitter and I have never sought or received compensation for it from either the client or outfitter. In my mind, an agent screaming for his cut of the action years after an initial booking is what is truly "low rent".

Similarly, I have gone on hunts booked through an agent and gotten to know my PH (and others PHs) in the process and I don't think I owe the initial agent any sort of remuneration a year or two or three later for enabling those relationships to be formed. If I trust an outfitter, am familiar with the drill in that African country, wire the money, and book my own tickets, etc., I don't see how the agent has done anything warranting compensation. If I come to trust an outfitter I use (or one I meet on a hunt) I certainly don't feel the moral obligation to keep compensating the initial agent a decade after the first hunt took place. Now, if the outfitter wants to pay him on the side, that is a different matter but I don't see why they would. The agent's job is to facilitate new clients, the PH or outfitters job is to facilitate return business. Why compensate the agent as a PH because you did a good job as an outfitter and client wants to come back?

JMHO

I agree! If you use an agent, it is a single time transaction in my book. I don't care if the ph wants to pay them, its not money that I would see anyway. But to some how tell me I have any obligation to an agent, good job or bad, is silly.
If the agent makes me see the value of the service, then I would use them again.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Depends on how much stock you put in loyalty and honesty.

Don't forget someone to lend a hand when it all goes bad.

Jeff

Like I stated previously....

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
If you are a full time agent you live, eat and breath the hunting business. It's just not logical that the average hunter regardless of personal experience will have the same level of knowledge and current information.

I spoke with Jamie Cowan who is our office manager yesterday about the services we provide at Adam Clements Safari Trackers. Some of you will know Jamie and are familiar with her level of attention to detail. I wanted to organize a list of what services we provided but as usual she cut straight to the chase and said to just tell folks that once they commit they can just relax. We will handle everything or prompt the client on what he may have to do himself. It rteally is that simple.

Mark

I was just on the phone with Jamie yesterday. She is top notch and has been great to work with. I like to have a US contact and someone I can talk with as needed, or visit with face to face if necessary.

surestrike -- very informative and helpful post about how the industry works from someone who was on the inside of it.

Let me tell you why I asked the original question. I was tempted (in fact, I'd say it was almost a certainty) to start cruising outfitter web sites to look for the "perfect" arrangement for me in terms of price, location, and game animals. I was wondering, once I had found what I wanted, whether and how to involve my current booking agent. After reading the posts here, I decided to solve the problem by not doing any searching -- just staying the hell off search engines -- and just going back to my agent and choosing from whatever outfitters he worked with.

We are communicating now about my next hunt.