The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting How many bullets have you used to kill a buffalo by cartridge?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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With all due respect, I will take that as a shut up, rather than a put up. I will stand by my terms. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Your choice Mike. You are the one who said put up or shut up. I have read literally hundreds of hunting books. Some very old, and some of the new ones. Some writers have written things that defy any logic. They might have mentioned that with a tongue in cheek, but some people seem to have taken it seriously. And as in your case, one's own experience trumps anyone else's. | |||
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SO: is the hunt date set yet? George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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Saeed, you have a PM. I, too, have read many books. And have learned by experience to separate the wheat from the chaff. I stand by my terms. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Heck, this will be better than McGregor v. Mayweather! I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
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I have killed two elephants, with one bullet, a year apart. And it dawned on me that a 375 is better for elephants than a 416. I shot one with a Barnes Super Solid bronze bullet out of my 416 Rigby Improved. He dropped stone dead in his tracks with a brain shot. The bullet did not exit, and we recovered it. I turned that bullet down on the lathe, to 375. The next year, I used that same bullet to shoot another bull. Again, he dropped stone dead in his tracks. But the bullet went out of him. | |||
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Saeed, I must retire soon, as my duties will call early in the morning. But what are you saying? That all is chance? I say again, put up or shut up. I stand by my terms. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Mike, I have already called your bluff! Go hunt, shoot as many elephants and buffalo as I have with your big gun, keep notes and we will compare them with mine, shot with the lowly 375! Let me make it easy for you. Shoot only only 20 elephants and 200 buffalo. That should be enough to have a meaningful, accurate comparison. Whatever elephants and buffalo you have already shot can be included in the above numbers.  | |||
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Aaron what 270 grain bullet were you using? Barnes? Hope you are doing well. Arjun
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Saeed, I never said a .375, with the right bullet and with an experienced rifleman, who knows where and when to shoot is not deadly on buff. I was just quoting Tony Sanchez who has probably personally killed more buffalo than everyone on this forum put together. I just happen to agree with him, that all other things being equal (shot placement, bullet construction, etc). a buff hunter is better off with a larger caliber than with a smaller caliber. If someone is an expert on buffalo anatomy and a crack shot, I am sure buff will drop like a rock if the spinal cord is severed no matter how anemic the cartridge/bullet combination. And if the first shot is off, or the buff is worked up for some other reason and a charge ensues, I sincerely hope my PH is not carrying a .375! JMO. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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It really makes no difference who said that if you are not shooting a 40 caliber or larger rifle you have no business hunting elephant and buffalo. That statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. We do not need to go very far. Just read the number of members who have participated on this thread, and have use smaller calibers and had absolutely no trouble at all. In the matter of a charge, again, it really makes no difference whatsoever what rifle you are using. If you do not hit the brain or the central nervous system, you are not likely to stop it. It makes no difference what size bullet you use. Again, this is all a throw back from Taylor's crazy Knockout. I have personally assisted other hunters in follow up wounded buffalo in very thick bush. In one instance, one was using a 470. We both saw the bull lying down less than 10 yards away, we both fired as he was getting up. He dropped at the shots. The 470 hit him in the knee, the 375 hit him in the brain. I wonder what would have happened if it was just him there?? | |||
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Saeed, I don't think anyone disputes that a well placed shot from almost any worthy caliber will get the job done on a Buffalo. I have personally taken many with a 7 Rem Mag and later with a 300 Win Mag and most dropped where they stood though not DRT as my shots were aimed to take out the neck vertebrae and incapacitate the animal. A second shot was obviously required to end its misery. In all honesty I may have flunked 20% and which were followed up with a heavy caliber DR - at first I thought a 450 was adequate but then realized that the 500 was even better. I have no doubt in my mind that the impact of a 570 grain slug traveling at 2150 fps producing 5,000 ft lbs has a very convincing effect on an oncoming Buffalo at 25 yards and less provided you hit the mass and not legs, knees or hooves. Am not saying you will have a DRT result but for sure it will drop if brained (but that would apply to most any caliber)and if not, chances are that it will be pretty dazed for the second barrel to be dispatched. Any of the .40+ calibers, especially those in the DR category, were not designed for long shots; I would consider any distance beyond 75 yards as the safest max. acceptable limit. | |||
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I support what MR stands by on this one. All things being equal on a non CNS shot a .45 caliber and up kill and incapacitate faster. Are there exceptions? Sure there are! But big calibers on non CNS shots on Buffalo and Elephant do have a greater impact. I have seen enough with my own eyes to be convinced of that. | |||
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Well, first I would ask what are we asking? Do we mean immediate incapacitation? Do we mean that our quarry dies with one shot? Do we mean how quickly the animal dies after one shot? Or some permutation of the above? My personal experience is assuming an appropriate thoracic hit that gets both lungs, that a bigger bullet will tend to drop an animal faster than a smaller one assuming reasonably comparible velocities. I wouldn't say it's a huge difference but notable. Is it significant? Probably not. Is 10% shorter death run significant? Statistically, probably...practically no. Is there a difference in reaction to head shots? I think so. At least all the PHs I've hunted with thought so... none carried smaller than .458 as their stopper when given a choice. But they all said that the .375 was perfect as a client rifle. I was recommended to use a minimum of a .416 on all my pachyderm hunts, but that was with folks who had some idea of my shooting ability, so I think most go along with use as big as you can accurately use, but the .375/9.3 will work sufficiently that no PH complains about it. Heck I bet even Mark Sullivan won't complain if you show up with a .375. | |||
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What difference in reaction to head shot buffalo can you tell between calibers?? Does the buffalo actually hit the ground faster if it was head shot by a bigger caliber? Would the weight of the bullet make the difference? Like between a 300 grain .375 bullet and a 500 grain .458 caliber bullet?? Would the 200 grain difference affect the gravity as the buffalo drops down stone dead?? | |||
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Ah Saeed I wondered when your nemesis would come into the conversation  With all due respect it seems on one hand you are promoting the point of view that for anyone to compare notes meaningfully between others, including yourself, that they must have shot comparable numbers of animals, then on the other hand you see fit to ignore or even berate those that have had vastly more experience and shot many more animals than you. Pondoro Taylor would likely have shot more elephant alone than you have shot total animals in your lifetime to date, let alone counting the many hundreds of buffalo and every other game species in Africa that Taylor did shoot. On your basis of analyzing, Taylor is 1000% right and you have no right at all to even be in a discussion of what is the best for hunting big game in Africa. Of course that is not the case. You do have probably as much or more experience than most on this forum but that doesn't make you more credible than Taylor, Hunter, Bell, Selby, etc., all of whom had vast experience but also had differing opinions and experiences amongst themselves. Bell was probably similar to yourself in so far as promoting any reasonable caliber and design of bullet placed in the correct spot will kill everything including elephant. The other great hunters mostly respected him, obviously as the results spoke for themselves, but at the same time they did not believe that for most hunters that was the correct way to hunt big game. Yes Taylor promoted his Knockout number similarly to Elmer Keith promoting his version of comparing energy using lbsft instead of ftlbs, each having come up with these ideas based on their field experience, vast as it was for both these pioneers. Over the years others too have similarly come up with ways of comparing the effects of bullets on animals all having some merit. Your own promotion of what works and what doesn't work can be given no more credit than anyone else's and if you believe that experience and number of animals shot gives you more credibility than others then I'm afraid you are at a very low rung on the ladder compared with many others. Personally, having shot hundreds of hoofed game and only a handful of buffalo, I agree with you that bullet placement is the key to success but I defer to the view that bigger does no harm when taking on the large body mass animals. When hunting the Asian buffalo we were shooting running animals at times and while I'm a good enough shot I don't attempt to head shoot running animals, body shots is where a bigger caliber really comes in. That's is my experience but I make no claim to fame on that. | |||
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Does anybody have a pic of recovered 470 cal or 500 cal bullets? Given most of them are leaving the bbl in the 2200 range, how much do they actually expand? Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Saeed I deliberately said head shot and not brain shot. If one hits the brain, that's it. If one hits the head, but not CNS, yes there can be substantial differences between a big bore and a smaller bore. True, if one misses, one misses... but no less than Ivan Carter told me that he had seen one of his clients dramatically improve his successful frontal brain shot percentage by moving up to a .500. I argued the point that fractions of an inch of bullet size couldn't make a difference, but he stated the number of bulls that dropped to the shot was very much higher. He was comparing the .470 to the .500 at the time. Of course one should avoid missing. If you do that, the whole caliber choice becomes much less significant. But if one takes a suboptimal shot, there is a chance bad things will happen. I've enjoyed your videos, and it seems you too have made some suboptimal shots, and have shot buff multiple times, so I think you would agree that it happens. As I said, I think there is a perceptible difference, but whether it is a significant one, I tend to agree that it is likely not but that is each hunters decision. | |||
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Check Michael458's thread of Big game bullets & also the DR thread he did with Sam Rose. Lots of pictures and data. Huge posts running to 50+ pages IIRC.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I've not shot a buffalo or an elephant. So I will weigh in here not on experience but on facts known and logic - like eagle27 did. While Taylor did come up with the Knockout factor, he did say very clearly that there are many variable and it is not a pure science. He also said that it seemed to be less relevant for smaller calibers. He DID NOT claim a fool proof conclusion with that concept. Facts again - An African poacher on a bicycle shot many elephants under the armpit with a .22! Bell shot many elephants in the brain with 6.5 and 7mm. Would those calibers be adequate if they missed the brain or the heart? Another fact - discussed here and elsewhere - a buffalo bull shot through the heart with a solid and still standing and surviving for over half an hour while the hole in the heart shut with each heart beat. Would that have been the case with an expanding bullet or a larger caliber? Finally logic - energy is comparable with similar bullets of similar diameter. Transfer of energy is the key here. A wider bullet will transfer more energy quicker simply because it has a larger area to impact. Hence the observations that head shots on elephant with a bigger bullet missing the brain tends to turn them or shock them more often than smaller calibers missing the brain. Taylor says this categorically and so do many others. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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In what forum is this infamous thread? do you have an exact title or a link? it appears he several threads that could be the post you are referencing? Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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if Don was still alive he will chime about how the little 9.3 was working on the 9.3x62 even as a back up ... | |||
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http://forums.accuratereloadin...911034341#9911034341 http://forums.accuratereloadin...181078741#7181078741
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Saeed, I'm not bluffing at all. Have you played much poker? And you didn't call me. You folded on a no ante pot before the first bet. Your sample size is impressive, but as others have pointed out, many hunters with vastly more experience than you have come to my conclusion, rather than yours. And the ones with the greatest experience didn't even have the advantage of using a .510 caliber 8,000 ft.-lb. rifle like mine. And by your own admission, you have little or no real basis for comparison, as you have used a .375 for most of the buff you have shot, and have never even shot one with a rifle as powerful as mine. But I'll admit I could be wrong. I was wrong once before.   Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Taylor's knockout values are continuously and consistently misunderstood and misrepresented!!  But I agree with the fact that the question is just non-sense, for buffalo. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I never gamble Mike. I just know when I am winning Using a 375/404 has been a win win for me. When the elephants and buffalo tell me something else, I might change that. | |||
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Saeed, do you think you would be enjoying the same level of success that you have currently with your 375/404 if you swapped out the projectiles you make with some factory made bullets ? You seem to be placing all importance on the cartridge rather than the bullets. It's the bullets that leave the barrel and actually make the contact/damage, as you of all people should know. | |||
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Ahh hell, I was hoping Mike and Saeed would make this challenge hunt, video all the shots and share them with us here to see the results and learn the real facts. I still hope that happens. Best to you both. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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You are an honest man. | |||
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And Saeed once you have reached a tally of over one 1000 elephants, 600 or more buffalo, a few dozen or maybe hundred or more rhino, lion, leopard and hundreds upon hundreds more head of African game, then and only then, should you feel qualified to compare yourself with Taylor and question his 'Knockout Values'. However based on 20 elephants and 200 buffalo you can allow yourself a whispered opinion as you trudge along in his footsteps forever trying, but never catching up | |||
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Bullets of course make a lot of difference, and certainly negates the point made that if one does not use a 40 caliber or over, should not be hunting elephants and buffalo. Eagle, I would guarantee you that if TAYLOR was alive and hunting today he would tell you how deadly the smaller calibers are with modern bullets. We have an enormous advantage today over them, mainly because the fantastic bullets available to us to hunt with. | |||
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I for one have never shot a buffalo or an elephant. Have been present when some were shot though and have shot a couple of banteng. Witnessed the shooting of several more banteng. As many have pointed out it is obvious that shot placement and projectile choice are critical factors. I do own a .375 and will probably use it on water buffalo at some point with the Barnes 300gn TSX. I have done sufficient research to feel confident that the combination will be capable if I do my part. To suggest that Saeed's sample of 20 odd elephant and 200 buffalo taken with the .375/.404 doesn't validate his opinion is absolute rubbish. 99.9% of modern hunters will never approach those numbers in their lifetime. The fact that Saeed has been able to do so without being stomped upon says something about his hunting prowess, marksmanship and choice of equipment. Comparing his tallies with hunters of yore in order to belittle his achievement is nothing but a pissing contest. Should Taylor have had the opportunity to compare the killing power of modern monometal projectiles at high velocity with those cartridges and projectiles available in his day it's quite possible he may have formed an entirely different opinion in terms of what works effectively on large and dangerous game. The hunting imperative was part of every man's soul; some denied or suppressed it, others diverted it into less blatantly violent avenues of expression, wielding clubs on the golf course or racquets on the court, substituting a little white ball for the prey of flesh and blood. Wilbur Smith | |||
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Saeed, given that 375 caliber 300 bullets are well known to exit on bull elephant head shots at .375 H&H velocities, what benefit do you get from the additional velocity, recoil and muzzle blast of your 375/404? USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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It is totally my opinion and statement that "if you can't shoot a .416 or .404 accurately you have no business hunting buffalo". Totally subjective and as I have stated I am not a PH, so I have no financial dog in the fight. Tony Sanchez stated in "Last of the Few", that he believes a proper buffalo or elephant gun should fire a bullet weighing at least 400 grains at at least 2000 fps. With Mr. Sanchez having personally killed over 800 buffalo and over 1000 elephants, I trust his judgement. I believe in the laws of physics and I know first hand a deer shot in the shoulder with a .243 does not react the same as a deer shot with a 300 Win Mag (that is using the same bullets at the same distance). As a teenager I worked in a slaughterhouse where cattle were shot in the head with a .22 short. They all died, most of them dropping in their tracks, but I would not recommend hunting cattle sized game with a .22 short. But to each his own, but the 3 PHs I have hunted with (buffalo and elephant) carried respectively a .470 NE, a .505 Gibbs, and a .458 Lott. All proven stopper guns. If the client can accurately shoot a stopper gun as well, then I think the risks are less than if the client shoots a marginal cartridge. JMO of course. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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A buffalo is a very large and strong animal and has a lot of adrenaline which makes it seemingly bullet proof especially if shot badly. No buff unless hit in the brain or spine is going down on the spot like a deer. If it happens that's the exception rather than the normal, they all seem to run at least 20-30 yards (at the very minimum), caliber doesn't matter. But if you are using a good bullet and place your shot where it is supposed to go with a bigger v/s smaller caliber, there is no question that a heavier caliber is superior to a lighter caliber and will have a greater effect on the animal. If there was no difference why would PHs be carrying big caliber rifles? Their job after all is to stop bad actors at a spitting distance. If you hit a buff in the stomach with a 375 or 500 you are still going to deal with a wounded buff and then it's the personality of that specific animal and your follow up shots which will determine the outcome. BIGGER is better ONLY if you can shoot it well. If you can't then its better to use a 9.3 or even a 30-06 (in theory) and hit it in the right place. | |||
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That is a good policy, Saeed - especially in the case at hand! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Presumably you are referring to my posts and if so, you are misinterpreting what I have said. I am not belittling Saeed in any way. I said about Saeed in an earlier post - "of course that is not the case. You do have probably as much or more experience than most on this forum but that doesn't make you more credible than Taylor, Hunter, Bell, Selby, etc. I do not say that Saeed's experience and opinions are absolute rubbish, they are very valid but they do not give him anymore credibility to call into question Taylor's opinions and findings on African hunting. It was Saeed himself who got into a good hearted pissing match with Michael on the idea that those who have hunted and shot more animals should know better. I just called him out on that in that he is on the low rung of the ladder compared with many in terms of animals shot if he wishes to use that line of debate. By the way can you not apply your statement "Saeed has been able to do so without being stomped upon says something about his hunting prowess" also to those hunters of yore who hunted and shot huge numbers of animals without the so called benefits of modern cartridges and monometal bullets and they didn't get stomped upon which of course, again based on animals shot, speaks in pages for their hunting prowess and marksmanship. You were almost correct in your statement, but I say 100% of modern hunters will never approach the numbers in their lifetime (that the hunters of yore did) and while they have rights to have a differing opinion they are in no position to denigrate opinion such as Saeed's statement "This is just as stupid as Taylors Knockout". That shows a lack of understanding of what Taylor's knockout value was. If as Saeed, or yourself promotes that ones experience and opinions are more valid if based on the number of animals one has shot then Saeed and everyone else behind him on this forum have a long flight of steps to climb to get to the heights where Taylor and those hunters of yore sit. Every one's opinion and discussion should be welcome here even those you may not have ever shot an elephant or buffalo or whatever, but reverting to the schoolboy 'mine is bigger than yours" or "I've got more than you" is not helpful to any discussion. In life, someone will always have a bigger one or more than you. | |||
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You are forgetting an important fact. They did not have any decent bullets in those days. Exactly the same comparison can be made of comparing the black powder days with smokeless powder. How come Bell was happily killing elephants with a 7mm? Could you even think older hunters using black powder would even consider 7mm? | |||
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This whole contrived controversy seems silly to me. I see nothing constructive in insulting our host. Personally, based on my limited experience, I like a .416 and it's worked for me. But then, that is my go to rifle for everything. Making the point that where you hit them is more important than anything else. That is the rifle with which I have the most confidence. If my pet rifle was a .375, I'd be every bit as confident with that. I've only brained one buffalo and as expected, he collapsed dead run. The result would have been the same if I was using a .30-06. | |||
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Saeed do you think in the future, if there are any big game left to hunt, and guided projectiles, lasers or some other futuristic developments are used to hunt these animals, that your great achievements in our world of hunting today, should be just discarded and derided? You have hunted the very same animals that Taylor, Bell, etc., hunted, albeit it could be argued that you have hunted under relatively controlled conditions most always I imagine with professional backup. I say this not taking away the excellent hunting and shooting skills you have displayed to do this but those early hunters and so called white PH's (JA Hunter, Selby etc.,) achieved exactly the same thing as you have done only on vastly more animals than you. Your experiences and success are just as valid as theirs, because they have shot more doesn't take away what you have done. It was not me that bought up the discussion on who has shot the most and who is qualified to speak with authority on the subject, you did that yourself with Michael. I have only pointed out, with due respect I add, that extrapolating out qualification or authority based on number of animals shot leaves you well back in the pack of most of those early very successful hunters. I don't believe you belong there. You have shared your opinions, experiences, knowledge and entertained us all and for me and many others so have Taylor and Co through their writings. Comparing black powder with smokeless is quite different, like comparing the modern car with the first cars. Taylor and Co used the same firearms and cartridges as you do. Yes bullets have changed but in the most not making such a huge difference. I shot my buffalo with Kynoch pattern steel jacketed solids from the 60's only doing about 2000fps in my 404. The buffalo all dropped to one shot, all body shots. Obviously I placed my shots just as you so rightly advocate as being the best recipe for success. The fact that I was not shooting the latest and greatest bullet or high intensity cartridge did not matter in my case, albeit only a handful of buffalo but had some buffalo run off and needed tracking and follow up shots so be it. I have seen you do this on occasions in your videos with your 375/404 and specialized bullets. As for Bell he would have to be recognized as an enigma of his day. Obviously hugely skilled once he figured out where the brain and other vitals were on the animals he hunted. It can be done with a small bore and solids but nobody gets the chance to do this today as it is illegal. Fred Huntington, Elenor O'Connor and many others used the 30.06 and other similar cartridges to shoot elephant back in the 50's and 60's so it is not unheard of in relatively modern times. In the meantime I shall continue to enjoy reading and watching your hunting exploits and debates but pleeease can you find some little space in your heart for Taylors knockout  | |||
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