On another thread I stated that I would pay $15k to hunt an over 40" buffalo with Mark Sullivan.

I was instantly criticized by some of the anti-MS posters.

That brings up an interesting question (for me anyway). "Why do you like to hunt DG?"

I have been to Africa on only 3 safaris. On those three safaris I have killed a total of 4 animals.

One elephant and 3 buffalo. I'm glad I killed my elephant (a nice 60 pounder), but I have no desire to kill another.

If I had the extra money I would like to kill a lion and a leopard sometime in the future.

But most of all I like to hunt buffalo. Why? Because I respect and admire the courage of that animal more than any other. I think it is more challenging to "pick a fight" with a buffalo.

I like the adrenaline rush of shooting a buffalo and not knowing if he is going to charge or not.

I have been bluff charged 3 or 4 times by the elephant I shot and charged once by a buffalo that I had shot 3 times.

That is the excitement in hunting DG for me.

I've shot my share of deer and elk (and a pronghorn or two) and when I kill them I get a quiet sense of satisfaction (and some meat), but that's all. No adrenaline rushes.

So my question to other DG hunters is why do you spend so much money to hunt DG?

BH63

quote:

I think it is more challenging to "pick a fight" with a buffalo.

I cannot answer why precisely DG clients spend so much money to hunt DG but it must obviously be related to the element of danger involved even though that element is not guaranteed unless you book with the right outfitter.

However so, it should be borne in mind that the sport of hunting is conducted, (or should be) in a fair and ethical manner, whereby the intended quarry is dispatched as humanely and as quickly as possible.

"Picking a fight" with a wounded buffalo in order to get some "excitement" somehow suggests otherwise, especially after plugging it 3 times.

Now, if you really want excitement and a constant adrenaline rush in hunting DG, test your mettle and "pick a fight" with a wounded Leopard by putting yourself at the front of the line where the choice of how one wants to die is 50/50.

Because it's dangerous...

Remove the element of danger by shooting at extended ranges or having your PH finish it off for you while you stay back or sit the truck and you might as well go fishing...which btw, I also enjoy, but for very different reasons.

I don't box for the same reasons I play golf...

BH63,

For me DG hunting had never been about testing my mettle against some wild animal. I admit hunting DG has a certain something that makes the hunt feel different than hunting PG but I don't think its idea that the animal might kill me. It feels to me more like a heightened level of awareness than fear. Personally I could have hunted a lot more DG but new places and other species have always been more interesting overall to me. Having said that if I could hunt another lion...............

Mark

quote:

but I don't think its idea that the animal might kill me. It feels to me more like a heightened level of awareness than fear.

You don't attribute that heightened level of awareness with the fact that the animal is dangerous? I think that is precisely why "we" have that feeling.

I have no idea how many elephants, lions, leopards and buffalo I have killed off hand.

But, I have never felt I am in danger anytime at all.

I have been charged by both elephants and lions.

Others might feel hunting some animals dangerous, I don't.

There is always an element of danger in hunting, but my worst fear is being bitten by a snake or breaking a leg running in the grass.

I hunt elephants, lions and buffalo because I enjoy it, At I never intend to get myself or those around me in any danger.

To actually say that one is putting himself in danger is so bloody stupid!

Why would any sane person do that??

I would like to go home to my family, and go hunt again an again.

I feel more in danger driving in a busy city than any hunting trip.

What is so dangerous about facing any animal with a rifle in your hand??

Those who wish to really experience dangerous game hunting, try killing an animal wit your bare hands!

Or o course, one can do the Mark Sullivan dangerous bit.

Which is only dangerous in his own dreams!

quote:

But, I have never felt I am in danger anytime at all.

A false sense of security doesn't reflect the reality of the situation. I could list a whole page of men/women who were stomped, gored, bitten, scratched, crushed..ect By the Big 5 & Dangerous 7. Most of whom were carrying rifles and backed up by Ph's carrying rifles.

Very true.

People die every day doing what they do every day.

Life and death are inseparable.

But I do not go hunting to put myself, or anyone else, in danger.

As I said, if you really wish to be in danger, leave your rifle at home.

Those who claim to go hunt dangerous game to put themselves in danger are fooling only themselves.

The sides are decidedly unequal with a rifle in one's hands.

The rifle does put the odds overwhelmingly in the hunters favor....that is for sure, but so does the parachute for a skydiver. The line between dangerous and completely safe can be razor thin..so thin most people don't realizer they've crossed it until they're being hooked by a buff.

I see no reason why we can't hunt for different reasons...IMO this isn't a one right answer subject

Just for clarification when I stated "pick a fight with a buffalo", I was referring to slipping up and shooting him at close range, not deliberately wounding him.

As you all should know, without being overly dramatic, anytime you shoot any dangerous animal you run the risk of a "him or you" type situation.

Buffalo and wounded leopards seem to be the most likely to go on a kamikaze run at you.

I agree with the "heightened sense" you experience. That is the same thing you experience in combat. It is nature's way of trying to give you an edge for survival.

I read something in Tony Sanchez's "Last of the Few", a while back, that rang true for me.

He stated he had never been interested in shooting plains game. That pretty much sums up my attitude toward hunting in Africa. I think some of the animals make nice trophies (kudu, sable, nyala, etc) and some of them you couldn't pay me to shoot (giraffe, honey badger, etc), but hunting buffalo for some reason, makes me want to say to hell with my son's inheritance.

Other than hunting bears in North America, there is nothing here really similar to African DG.

I did once crawl on my hands and knees into some scrub oak after a wounded black bear and that was actually the catalyst for me to want to go to Africa and hunt my first buffalo.

I'm sure other people have a more balanced attitude toward hunting a variety of game in Africa, but for me, DG is the draw.

Armed with a proper rifle/cartridge combination (and backed up by a PH), you certainly still have the advantage over a buffalo, lion, or whatever, but you still have to make the initial shot and be prepared for any follow up shots. Sometimes, in spite of doing everything right, you, your PH, or a tracker still occasionally winds up dead. That happens to even the most experienced.


BH63

There is a thread on the "other" African hunting forum that seems to indicate buffalo are indeed dangerous..well..if you consider having some rather large holes torn open near your spine. Looks quite painful...

DG?
It's exciting, otherwise no rhyme or reason
It's simply hunting something that can hurt you and that is probably it
Besides, it's Africa

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have no idea how many elephants, lions, leopards and buffalo I have killed off hand.

But, I have never felt I am in danger anytime at all.

I have been charged by both elephants and lions.

Others might feel hunting some animals dangerous, I don't.

There is always an element of danger in hunting, but my worst fear is being bitten by a snake or breaking a leg running in the grass.

I hunt elephants, lions and buffalo because I enjoy it, At I never intend to get myself or those around me in any danger.

To actually say that one is putting himself in danger is so bloody stupid!

Why would any sane person do that??

I would like to go home to my family, and go hunt again an again.

I feel more in danger driving in a busy city than any hunting trip.

What is so dangerous about facing any animal with a rifle in your hand??

Those who wish to really experience dangerous game hunting, try killing an animal wit your bare hands!

Or o course, one can do the Mark Sullivan dangerous bit.

Which is only dangerous in his own dreams!

The Mark Sullivan comments aside, I totally agree Saeed. Having killed roughly 50 animals in Africa that are considered DG, I can't recall ever really feeling like I was in "danger", or doing it for the "danger" of it - despite having to actually shoot 3 charging buffalo. I know animals can be "dangerous", we all know that - but if one is doing it in hopes of seeking danger, I would be very careful what one wishes for. I do it simply because I love hunting and shooting big animals like buff / elephant / hippo, and I am fascinated with hunting big cats.

I think the more one does it (hunts "DG") the more one recognizes its just "hunting", like all other hunting. But I think the more one hunts period, the more one recognizes that with all hunting - its just hunting! Its not life or death, its not "that" important that one should make it something its not. I love hunting Africa, but I find hunting big mule deer, big bull elk, huge whitetails, etc, etc, a much greater hunting / strategic challenge than any buffalo or elephant every came close to being.

Any hunt for me is an adventure,I love being outdoors,I learned humility real quick the first time that I was close to an elephant herd,facing a mock charge from both an elephant & a buff was a one of a kind experience, you attain total focus, all of this & more is why I enjoy dg hunting,sharing hunts with buddies makes for some great memories.

Aaron,

Exactly! You said it better than I did.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have no idea how many elephants, lions, leopards and buffalo I have killed off hand.

But, I have never felt I am in danger anytime at all.

I have been charged by both elephants and lions.

Others might feel hunting some animals dangerous, I don't.

There is always an element of danger in hunting, but my worst fear is being bitten by a snake or breaking a leg running in the grass.

I hunt elephants, lions and buffalo because I enjoy it, At I never intend to get myself or those around me in any danger.

To actually say that one is putting himself in danger is so bloody stupid!

Why would any sane person do that??

I would like to go home to my family, and go hunt again an again.

I feel more in danger driving in a busy city than any hunting trip.

What is so dangerous about facing any animal with a rifle in your hand??

Those who wish to really experience dangerous game hunting, try killing an animal wit your bare hands!

Or o course, one can do the Mark Sullivan dangerous bit.

Which is only dangerous in his own dreams!

I agree.

I like buffalo because of the tracking. I like leopard because it is a chess match. I can't say I like lion hunting but it is a challenge and scary when NOT shooting over bait.

I doubt I ever hunt elephant. Did that once and got real close and they scare the heck out of me.

My favorite are eland - both the Livingston/Patterson and the Lord Derby. The Lord Derby is one I would hunt every year.

I chased eland in Botswana last year and that was great fun.

So, why? Because I enjoy the challenge, the PH's, the trackers and mostly respect the animal.

I like hunting, period!

I like hunting elephant, buffalo and lion more.

And as there are a lot more opportunities to hunt buffalo, I do that more often.

I do not lower myself to the level of having a battle to the death with an animal.

Any animal.

I leave that to mindless idiots.

If you don't get a little of the shakes after getting in close on Buff, Ele or Lion then perhaps it's not for you!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
If you don't get a little of the shakes after getting in close on Buff, Ele or Lion then perhaps it's not for you!

Getting excited in any one does is great.

That is why we keep doing it again and again.

But I think some people tend to make the bit about DANGER in dangerous game hunting the all or nothing about it.

I have been hunting in Africa for over 35 years.

I have seen people getting an inch away from being maimed, or even killed, by a dead a animal.

I have seen people come within inches of being maimed or killed by a wounded, common plains game animal.

We get involved in an endless list of sport that CAN kill us if we have bad day, or do something stupid.

But, I know that myself and the friends I participate with take every precaution to make sure nothing undesirable happen to us.

I learnt deep sea diving over 50 years ago.

There was no one to teach us anything. All we needed was buy a tank and a regulator and hit the deep.

There was no inflatable safety jackets then, and we did not even have a strap for the tanks.

We used to put one arm around the tank and carry it by hand, while using the other hand to spear fish.

We were diving over 100 feet deep - and because of our heavy breathing, we did not last down very long.

Apparently, THAT was dangerous, what we did then.

But we never intended it to be dangerous, and we survived.

When I shoot an animal, any animal, I make sure he IS dead before we get close to him.

Regardless whether he is classified as dangerous or not. Because i KNOW that all animals CAN be dangerous.

I did many African safari, European, South America and accomplished all sort of 'DG' games, there was not much danger I felt having rifle in my hand and two more on backup with a group of people around you.

The most important and excitement for me was & is how to get close to them and to over control the natural instinct of animals like his ability to hear, see and smell, thinking and reading the mind of animal how he will react and respond whe get close to him.

Many time faced mocked charged by ele and to stalk lion, the excitment was how we doged him by keeping an eye over his instinct and to place shot when time is essence.

'I like hunting' rather 'I love hunting' whatever the animals came across when got opportunity, the placement of bulltes is always gave me satisfaction more when they are far in distance (specially mountain hunt/antelope) and yours split decesions how far he is and how your bullet will go in vital organ, when job is done perfectly that gives a siegh of releive and feel proud.

I am agree with Saeed that 'danger' is more here in cities rather in jungle, in jungle you are well prepared for all kind of expectations from them and mentally you are ready for it.

That is my opinion in DG or PG hunting.

IH

I find most dg hunting over priced and over hyped. Nice marketing pitch to sell dg hunting for the price it is sold for.

I much rather hunt eland or kudu or other plains game.

If buffalo was cheaper than eland I would hunt buff. At same dollar price I would hunt eland. As eland is cheaper than buff I would not even consider hunting buff.

I did a few dg hunts and have kind of moved on. If I see a great price for a buff hunt I would look into it as country it is hunted in might be interesting (west Africa, zim conservancies ect.)

Someone would have to pay me to shoot a leopard or lion and pay me a lot to shoot a elephant.

I am glad there are other hunters with preferences different that mine that pay big dollars to hunt dg. I like hunting pg in save conservancy with its big 5 which exist due to other hunters.

Mike

Last season in my area I experienced an unprovoked charge from an elephant and another PH the same from Buffalo. In both cases the animals were headshot at very close range.

Whilst I agree that it is instinctive for animals to avoid humans even when wounded you are rarely going to experience a major injury or death from plains game animals.

Elephant, Buffalo, Lion, Leopard and Hippo can become exceedingly dangerous if threatened or injured and the average hunter often has little experience of this and can be complacent or ignorant of the danger.

In addition all species mentioned will seek deep cover when pursued or wounded and even with a gun it has been proven again and again that our reflexs are of no match for these beasts under such conditions.

Saeed I assure you there are many who seek the potential danger of big game hunting by pushing the boundaries. I rather excercise commonsence and some degree of caution to remove the elements of danger but wild animals can be unpredictable and unforgiving at close quarters and will kill you over the slightest mistake. Hence the term dangerous game.

A lot of the danger ascribed to the big five came from the days when they were often hunted with unsuitable equipment. If you regularly hunt lion and leopard with a sporterised Lee Enfield .303 and military surplus ball ammunition you're going to have to follow up a lot of animals which are still rather energetic. When your weapon for the follow up is a Paradox and buck shot, even the most unimaginative hunter will perceive some danger. Like Saeed and his diving, the guys trying to control vermin cats weren't looking for a near death experience, they were using what they had at the time in the best way they knew how.

In the modern context, I agree with Andrew. I have been surprised on several occasions when the animal could probably have nailed me if it had been inclined to do so.

The term DG is about marketing, not hunting. Yes, some animals are more dangerous than others, but hunting them not necessarily so. Why do I like to hunt buffalo? The same reason I like to hunt any animal. DG means higher daily rates and in some places (like South Africa) ridiculous animal taxes. I do think that unfenced areas that have good populations of a broad range of animals are more interesting to hunt, because large animals and predators are a good indication of a still viable ecosystem. Hunting buffalo behind fences, or lion behind fences, isn't the same.

quote:

I rather excercise commonsence and some degree of caution to remove the elements of danger but wild animals can be unpredictable and unforgiving at close quarters and will kill you over the slightest mistake. Hence the term dangerous game.

Exactly!

I find it more interesting.

I think the level of perceived danger changes with ones level of experience. Things that may terrify someone on their first safari aren't that scary on a 25th safari.

I have been danger close to elephants, buff, etc many many times. I only consider myself to have been in real danger a very few times.

Life is dangerous. It is dangerous living every day life. Being around these animals while called DG, is not in and of itself dangerous. That can change quickly.

The truly dangerous situations that I can recall are as follows:

1- Following a wounded leopard at night.
2- Following a wounded lion. He charged and died 6 feet away.
3- Walking out of a lion blind at night. Radio was dead. Main light was dead. We had 2 mini-mag flash lights. Lions all around us.
4- Hunting elephants at night.

Larrshores, I second hunting elephant at night...that is really exciting...I could almost taste my adrenalin at that occation...

Would I do it again..? Hell yes..

Your 1, 2 and 3 experiences must have been awesome..

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

I rather excercise commonsence and some degree of caution to remove the elements of danger but wild animals can be unpredictable and unforgiving at close quarters and will kill you over the slightest mistake. Hence the term dangerous game.

Exactly!

Here is the reason any animal should be labeled a "DANGEROUS GAME"! That term doesn't mean every DG animal is going to, unprovoked, set out to kill a hunter. That fact doesn't mean he is not dangerous if you do not do your job correctly when you take him to task at close range after poking a hole in his hide that doesn't put him down for the count. Now that "YOU" have injured him, it only stands to reason that he is going to try his best to defend himself. At this point what you do is going the cause the outcome. So the dangerous animal here is the hunter who failed to make a clean kill in the first place, making him dangerous to himself if he doesn't do it right this time!

The above is the reason I like to get close before the first shot. If you get close the chances of making a bad shot is much less likely!

Wound any animal and let him get into the tight bush, and he will become dangerous, and that is the hunters fault IMO!

...................................................................

I enjoy all hunting. DG is certainly more thrilling than PG. But for me hunting is all about the overall experience, the place, the people, the culture, the food, terrain, everything not just the trophy at the end of the day. A sable is a fantastic trophy but for the money spent on it you may as well shoot a kudu or impala, the experience is the same! There are so many people who have shot multiple cape buff but never hunted in west africa for the western savannah buff, if I were in their shoes I would certainly look to experience that hunt as well. I wish I were younger, fitter and had more money to have hunted more Mountain game in Asia.

AR

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Larrshores, I second hunting elephant at night...that is really exciting...I could almost taste my adrenalin at that occation...

Would I do it again..? Hell yes..

Your 1, 2 and 3 experiences must have been awesome..

Yup. I do have to say that say that #3 was the result of a total F up by the safari company. I felt sure we were going to get chewed on that night. I still wonder how we managed to avoid that.

A lot of well known and not so well known highly experienced hunters have been killed by game. I doubt if all or any were unarmed but the wild animal got them in the end.

No disrespect intended. Sometimes a person's luck just runs out. I would never got complacent about a person's 100% superiority with their rifle.

A famous PH in Zim clobbered a lioness twice with his 465 after it had been hit the night before. It was shot off of him and he was medivaced to South Africa. Another famous PH who shot 300-400 lions as a game ranger got mauled after shooting a lioness as she leapt on him. He shot it in the face with his 458 but the rancher who originally wounded the lioness had to kill it and rush him to the hospital where he nearly lost his leg to gangrene. That man appears to me to be without fear (of anything) but he long ago told me that he respects lions now.

If hunting dangerous game was really such a 'slam dunk' I would move on ...

I know a lot of zim phs who hunt dg - none of them drive at night between the cities and the hunting areas.

Tells me everything about how dangerous dg hunting is.

But if you do even a remotely dangerous activity 150-200 days a year, year after year, chance catches up.

Mike

I hunted DG because I thought it was the pinnacle of hunting, ever since I read "Karamojo Bell" at the age of 11.

After Africa, I have no desire at all to hunt deer any more. I have killed representative plains game and have no desire to hunt them any more either. But if I could, I would go back and hunt DG.

If someone asks me why I wanted to go to Zimbabwe and kill an elephant, buffalo, or lion, I tell them it was because I couldn't go to Zimbabwe and kill a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

Unless, of course, a Liberal asks me, "How could you shoot an elephant," in which case I reply, "Because they don't fall down if you don't shoot them."

Yes, I've been in a couple of semi-sticky situations. I've also seen PHs miss an entire elephant three times.

I hunt dangerous game because it is who I am. Something deep inside draws me to it. I enjoy everything about the hunt. As soon as I am home something in me starts preparing for the next hunt. Hard to explain really. I cannot imagine a world with out hunting and dangerous game hunting gives me enjoyment deep into my sole.

I enjoy all hunting and fishing. Dangerous game hunting is part of who I am.

quote:

I hunt dangerous game because it is who I am. Something deep inside draws me to it. I enjoy everything about the hunt. As soon as I am home something in me starts preparing for the next hunt. Hard to explain really.

This statement mirrors my feelings in a way I never expected. I'm a real DG newbie having my first and only buff hunt in 2016. I love all hunting but I felt an undeniable connection, actually more than a connection, a real bond to the hunt for buff I can't explain either. But I absolutely loved it. I never felt endangered and by hunts end knew it was something I would love to do again, God willing. Well, it seems my silent prayer was good. Looks like it will be next year.

I have said it before, and will say it again:

There is no such thing as dangerous game hunting.

There is only hunting done right, and hunting done wrong.

Nothing else.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have said it before, and will say it again:

There is no such thing as dangerous game hunting.

There is only hunting done right, and hunting done wrong.

Nothing else.

Yet a simple mistake by even the best can make it very dangerous

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have said it before, and will say it again:

There is no such thing as dangerous game hunting.

There is only hunting done right, and hunting done wrong.

Nothing else.

Yet a simple mistake by even the best can make it very dangerous

And that applies equally to everything we do in our every day lives too.

quote:

But if you do even a remotely dangerous activity 150-200 days a year, year after year, chance catches up.

"chance catches up" ....... meaning being too cock-sure of oneself and which has been the downfall of many, some lived to tell the tale, other were less fortunate.

Why are a minority group of animals classified as dangerous? ... simply because they are the ones with a record of being capable of purposely killing you if you make the mistake of taking them for granted.

Indeed, an Oryx can impale you when on the ground breathing its last; a warthog or boar could slice a few leg arteries and cause you to bleed to death. These and others like them however are not animals known to have any inbred instinct to attack with intent to kill.

Buffalo is the exception of the DG species as it is constantly being harassed; by the predators on the one hand, and by hunters on the other.

The Elephant is a herbivore, bothers no-one and only very rarely retaliates unless wounded;

Hippo, a docile herbivore known to mind its own business until someone comes along and hoofs it out of its wallow or pond; (can get very irate)

Lion & Leopard are predators and nothing really bothers them except humans (and Hyenas) - retaliate if wounded or hungry (rare but known to have a liking for Japanese tourists).

It therefore stands to reason that old Syncerus Caffer is a grumpy old bastard by nature and can be quite a "horn-full" if not treated with respect.

Ask my client who was dragged down to the bottom of the Kafue by a Hippo and another who watched a charging buff get hammered at his feet who later remarked that he is never hunting with a PH who does not carry a .500 or more.

Much depends on the environment you hunt. I have noticed on Saeed's films that he hunts late season when the bush is burnt and clear. Visibility is good and often long shots are called for. When the grass is long and thick you have to get very close. Something that Buffalo often object to.