Insuring your hunt may not be the first thing that comes to mind before or after booking your hunt, but more and more I am realizing this is a MUST DO especially for the expensive hunts. Expensive of course is a relative word, what maybe expensive to me may not be to you so it's for everyone to figure that out their level of risk.

I just returned from Romania which is a great destination for hunters, more on that later. Romania has the largest population of Eurasian brown bears and the annual quota was around 500 bears. The outfitters were getting ready to welcome their fall bear clients and clients had booked tickets and were all set to come. Less than a week (last week) before the fall season was scheduled to open the plug has been pulled on them and all bear hunts have been banned indefinitely! Thanks to the EU politicians backed by anti hunters, meddling in conservation matters they know little about yet again!

Regardless, clients are now looking for a refund and the thinking by most is that they are entitled to and should get a full refund. So let's examine the mechanics of this! A brown bear hunt for say a 500 CIC class bear is in the region of 16-17,000 euros.

If you booked your hunt with a booking agent he kept his commission of 10-15% and passed on the rest to the outfitter.
The outfitter may keep 20-30% and passes on the rest to the land owners who have the permits
The land owner in turn has various expenses through the year including govt. fees, managing his area, maintaining his lodge, vehicles, heavy equipment, building hunting blinds, stocking food for his guides and hunters, salaries etc etc.

Now hunters are left having paid for a hunt that is not going to happen for no fault of all the mentioned parties and while normal expectation is that one should be entitled to a full refund, you can see where your money has been spent from the example above. Even though all facilitators of your hunt are honorable people they just do not have the means to repay you back in full. Outfitters, however well known and celebrated they maybe, for the most part are small time business men who just do not have the financial means or backing and dealing with them is not the same as sending back your well worn pair of 20 old boots to LL Bean where they will resole them and send them back free, postage paid with a smile!

A similar situation played out when the elephant hunts were cancelled in Zimbabwe as well.

Just wanted to bring this to the attention of all you good folk to look in to and strongly consider Hunt cancellation insurance. It is not cheap but in these uncertain times it's well worth it. I am certainly going to be pushing this to all my clients much more!!!



Arjun Reddy
www.huntersnetworks.com
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: +1 845 259 3628


NOTE: I did not have any brown bear clients booked in Romania.

Arjun,

I recommend it for everybody just for the reasons you gave above.

Mark

quote:

Hunt cancellation insurance is not cheap but in these uncertain times it's well worth it. I am certainly going to be pushing this to all my clients much more!!!

Arjun, I have not ever purchased cancellation insurance, mostly because of my comfort level with the operators, but also due to the added cost, and a lack of confidence that the insurance company would actually pay out.

Are you saying with 100% certainty that in a situation as you describe, the clients would have been compensated in full? Would the agents and operators be entitled to keep whatever monies had been paid?

Bill, I am not an insurance expert but I personally know of a hunter who was compensated in full for a loss of a hunting day when his hunt could not happen due to circumstances beyond the control of the outfitter. So am thinking in the Romanian situation hunters would have been compensated as well. Even if the agent and operator wanted to give you a full refund they may not have all your money to do so as i just explained. And for sure something like this is beyond their control and no fault of theirs!!

I know some guys in Romania are offering hunters other choices other than brown bear but they just don't have the money to give a full refund.

Talking about another matter, in Europe it is very cheap to buy and mandatory for hunters to have their own insurance God forbid they shoot someone by accident or cause some loss or damage due to their own actions. I have looked high and low to buy that type of coverage here in the states but so far no luck!

All this is certainly worth looking in to and factoring in the cost of your next expensive hunt. We our worried about paying the premium on our precious $5,000 rifle before a hunt, but seem to care less about the $50,000 hunt! I am am guilty as well.

I agree that it's a good idea, and I have done it, but not always. It's costly.

For an expensive trip (i.e., a trip where non-refundable amounts are high), the cost of insurance can easily reach or exceed US$2,000.

And, of course, I have never needed to make a claim!

I have purchased travel insurance for vacation trips where I had purchased tickets, etc. a year in advance and for when I was bringing my 80+ year old Mother on an overseas holiday but I've never purchased it for a hunt.

I was going to book a Romanian Bear hunt next year though.

Arjun I was just thinking about booking that hunt ,surprising that they closed the bear session with no notice . the chances of hunters getting their money back is slim at best. I have not insured my hunts in the past because of good luck and dealing with outfitters with good caricature have never suffered a loss . But it is a new world out there where at the whim of some government body can cancel an expensive hunt on a whim and you suffer a loss of $20.000 hunt. Insurance will become the new norm

If the hunt was cancelled, why don't the hunters get a full refund? Why on earth are the various parties you mention entitled to keep anything?

If an airline cancels a flight, you get a full refund or the option to rebook.

I just lost a day's hunting due to an airline problem. I have trip insurance through Ripcord. I'll let you all know how it turns out.
kh

The last time I looked at insurance, acts of God and acts of government were specifically exempted for insurance.

I decided it was not worthwhile given the very limited conditions to pay back, and the rather hefty premiums.

I missed hunting days a couple of years ago due to an injury requiring hospitalization for my wife. We always purchase travel insurance and Travel Guard paid for the missed hunting days, as well as a lot of other things.

One always needs to look at what is covered and perhaps more importantly what is excluded. This is true for all insurance contracts.

Make sure the travel insurance policy is no more than three or four paragraphs. Only takes a few sentences to say that if you pay the premium we will pay the claim.

Does anyone have a reference for an underwriter they have experience with?

Travel Guard has 32 pages of exclusions. I won't buy it and it's so damn expensive beyond the air fare (daily rate, etc.) I have paid for more than one hunt by not buying it ever. If you know your PH and he is trustworthy he will come to terms and allow you to roll your hunt to the following year if problems arise.
Beware of travel agencies and agents who recommend insurance(s) and get a cut.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Travel Guard has 32 pages of exclusions. I won't buy it and it's so damn expensive beyond the air fare (daily rate, etc.) I have paid for more than one hunt by not buying it ever. If you know your PH and he is trustworthy he will come to terms and allow you to roll your hunt to the following year if problems arise.
Beware of travel agencies and agents who recommend insurance(s) and get a cut.
Cal

Cal: I can't speak to the number of pages of exclusions, but as for the it being "so damned expensive"...the policy we had at the time of my wife's injury cost a whopping $65.00, it's called "Grab and Go" and is primarily for missed flights caused by delays or lost luggage, but also had an accident/injury clause that with $25,000 in coverage. We used most of that before we arrived back in the US.

I have bought it before. More often than not I haven't. This year I had an event that made me view it a bit differently. I was injured about 30 days before a fully paid for sheep hunt. That might make me rethink this in the future.

I had the same thoughts Larry..

I carry Global rescue and Global Medical coverage but always get paranoid about hurting myself or getting sick a month before leaving on a trip!

Yes I buy it...never had to make a claim so far and I hope it stays that way.

I have purchased travel insurance for 2 of 4 trips to Africa. The hunts that were booked 2 + years out. The cost was reasonable, however i never needed it.

I went with Global rescue & medical coverage.

Also went with the option that Karl Evans used.

However, like mentioned please read the package to see what is covered and what is not. All insurance is different...

In earlier times I did not buy the insurance.

On the last couple of hunts we did it differently with the full family along. We did some travel first and then the hunting part. So I did purchase the Travel Guard, although I don't remember which one, but it offered a lot of coverage for reasonable costs compared to the overall costs. And as many do, I also have purchased Global Rescue for the hope we never need it but just in case we do moment.

Like others above I had great confidence in the PH or outfitters so there was no need to insure the hunting portion of the trip.

Actually on the last trip to Africa in 2015 though I could have had to use the insurance. First I had an old injury flare up but it resolved about 2 months ahead of the trip. Then there was a flight delay. But we had enough travel days to absorb it without any issues. Finally in one of the nicest hotels a large chunk of the wall in the shower just fell out while I was in it taking a shower. It was funny and weird too. Had it hit me someplace important like my trigger finger it could have been a mess . As it was I didn't require any insurance to be filed, but overall it was good to have should something more have occurred.

On a separate note I went in to the AAA office here to get a new International Drivers license. Yeah I know they are nothing , but if a Mexican police asks Im giving him that versus my Texas license. Anyway they had some just regular trips on promotion so I got to looking in the lobby while waiting. I asked the agent to price some of those. I also asked for the insurance as they sell it to members too for their inhouse or for other purchased trips. I thought it would probably be less. Instead it was very expensive compared to the above combination of Travel Guard and Global Rescue. So I determined not to use that in the future and to stay with the insurance we had previously used and had in place.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
If the hunt was cancelled, why don't the hunters get a full refund? Why on earth are the various parties you mention entitled to keep anything?

If an airline cancels a flight, you get a full refund or the option to rebook.

I thought Arjun had explained it quite well. The problem is that most outfitters or guides won't have started their business with a good working capital to allow them to pull off 2 or 3 or 4 hunts without using the money paid by the hunters. Most will all be funding a good part of their business and lifestyle whatever that maybe from the funds paid by booking hunters.
Airlines and larger businesses have the backing of banks and shareholders to put money into their business to start them up, maintain them through lean times and for any adverse events that may arise. The business's are expected to make enough profit to 'live' on and pay back the banks and shareholders or pay back enough to keep them happy.

Ultimately businesses who start with no or very little working capital and do not make profit over and above what the owner uses to support their lifestyle, go bust and leave creditors e.g. hunters out of pocket.

Outfitters and guides may be all trustworthy and beyond reproach in the good times but fail and let their clientele down when the bad times hit. Like many businesses they will hang in as long as they can taking clients money in the hopes that the good times arrive again. They use you as their bank or shareholder.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
The last time I looked at insurance, acts of God and acts of government were specifically exempted for insurance.

I decided it was not worthwhile given the very limited conditions to pay back, and the rather hefty premiums.

Exactly why I do not waste money on it. Insurance is only a good investment IF it pays off. Insurance companies are famous for finding exceptions so they do not have to pay.
If it were my brown bear hunt, I would inquire about pig tags and just switch game animals.

I am the hunter that Arjun mentioned in an earlier post.

What happened is that some elephant poachers shot and killed an Ranger in an adjacent National Park. We were informed by the National Police that we were not to hunt until they cleared us as they were conducting a very intense hunt for the poachers and they did not want us to be in danger. They did catch 4 out of the 5 poachers and we lost a day and a half hunting.

I had a comprehensive policy with Rip Cord. I presented them with my claim and proof of what happened. They reimbursed me and my wife for the lost day and a half without hassle. I have had insurance in the past, but this was my first claim. I can recommend Rip Cord without reservation.

Gracias,

Hoot

Guys,

My one and only client that used his insurance was Damn glad he had. He got hammered by a buffalo and Travel Guard handled everything. Now this is a memory of a grand adventure to the client but if he had not had Travel Guard it might have been a completely different story.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Make sure the travel insurance policy is no more than three or four paragraphs. Only takes a few sentences to say that if you pay the premium we will pay the claim.

In other words shorter than what appears after your signature?

By the way... I see you quote Peter Stiff. Thread drift... in memory of Peter Stiff Galago is offering discounts on some of his books and some others.

quote:

Originally posted by Hoot Murray:
I am the hunter that Arjun mentioned in an earlier post.

What happened is that some elephant poachers shot and killed an Ranger in an adjacent National Park. We were informed by the National Police that we were not to hunt until they cleared us as they were conducting a very intense hunt for the poachers and they did not want us to be in danger. They did catch 4 out of the 5 poachers and we lost a day and a half hunting.

I had a comprehensive policy with Rip Cord. I presented them with my claim and proof of what happened. They reimbursed me and my wife for the lost day and a half without hassle. I have had insurance in the past, but this was my first claim. I can recommend Rip Cord without reservation.

Gracias,

Hoot

Wow! I did not realize Rip Cord provided that coverage.. I have always carried Global Rescue for evac - not sure if they offer an equivalent but I know I will check now and move to Rip Cord if they do not!

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
If the hunt was cancelled, why don't the hunters get a full refund? Why on earth are the various parties you mention entitled to keep anything?

If an airline cancels a flight, you get a full refund or the option to rebook.

I thought Arjun had explained it quite well. The problem is that most outfitters or guides won't have started their business with a good working capital to allow them to pull off 2 or 3 or 4 hunts without using the money paid by the hunters. Most will all be funding a good part of their business and lifestyle whatever that maybe from the funds paid by booking hunters.
Airlines and larger businesses have the backing of banks and shareholders to put money into their business to start them up, maintain them through lean times and for any adverse events that may arise. The business's are expected to make enough profit to 'live' on and pay back the banks and shareholders or pay back enough to keep them happy.

Ultimately businesses who start with no or very little working capital and do not make profit over and above what the owner uses to support their lifestyle, go bust and leave creditors e.g. hunters out of pocket.

Outfitters and guides may be all trustworthy and beyond reproach in the good times but fail and let their clientele down when the bad times hit. Like many businesses they will hang in as long as they can taking clients money in the hopes that the good times arrive again. They use you as their bank or shareholder.

Arjun implies the booking agent is entitled to keep his/her commission...really? Another Blair?

As for the rest of the excuses, if you don't deliver the hunt, we as buyers should get an entire refund. I put down a dep on a leopard hunt in Namibia with a well known PH who died a few years ago in a car accident. It was only 3K, but trying to get my deposit back after Namibia suspended leopard hunting a few years ago was like pulling teeth. I finally got paid through a US hunter who owed him money and paid me.

This is another reason booking agents should hold the money in escrow (in a true/legal escrow account, not their own) until the hunt is to commence.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
If the hunt was cancelled, why don't the hunters get a full refund? Why on earth are the various parties you mention entitled to keep anything?

If an airline cancels a flight, you get a full refund or the option to rebook.

I thought Arjun had explained it quite well. The problem is that most outfitters or guides won't have started their business with a good working capital to allow them to pull off 2 or 3 or 4 hunts without using the money paid by the hunters. Most will all be funding a good part of their business and lifestyle whatever that maybe from the funds paid by booking hunters.
Airlines and larger businesses have the backing of banks and shareholders to put money into their business to start them up, maintain them through lean times and for any adverse events that may arise. The business's are expected to make enough profit to 'live' on and pay back the banks and shareholders or pay back enough to keep them happy.

Ultimately businesses who start with no or very little working capital and do not make profit over and above what the owner uses to support their lifestyle, go bust and leave creditors e.g. hunters out of pocket.

Outfitters and guides may be all trustworthy and beyond reproach in the good times but fail and let their clientele down when the bad times hit. Like many businesses they will hang in as long as they can taking clients money in the hopes that the good times arrive again. They use you as their bank or shareholder.

Arjun implies the booking agent is entitled to keep his/her commission...really? Another Blair?

As for the rest of the excuses, if you don't deliver the hunt, we as buyers should get an entire refund. I put down a dep on a leopard hunt in Namibia with a well known PH who died a few years ago in a car accident. It was only 3K, but trying to get my deposit back after Namibia suspended leopard hunting a few years ago was like pulling teeth. I finally got paid through a US hunter who owed him money and paid me.

This is another reason booking agents should hold the money in escrow (in a true/legal escrow account, not their own) until the hunt is to commence.

I agree that he should get the refund but the question is whether the outfitter has the money.

Your last sentence is 100% spot on.

Why is it that the hunter is expected to take the total loss? I expect all vendors to provide what I have paid for.

In the past I've had separate evacuation and travel insurance, but this time I went with Ripcord's comprehensive poliy for an upcoming Hunt in Cameroon (booked through Arjun).

quote:

This is another reason booking agents should hold the money in escrow (in a true/legal escrow account, not their own) until the hunt is to commence.

Absolutely spot on!

I have never insured any of my safaris or other expensive vacations, but less than 30 days after returning home from Zimbabwe, I had to go to the ER for appendicitis. One of the things asked multiple times was whether I had any health care in either South Africa or Zimbabwe. I believed the medical personnel were concerned about Ebola and/or HIV.

Timing is everything I suppose.

BH63