quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:
Hunting elephant with a bow is plain fucking irresponsible stupidity, end of story!!

Curious, what qualifies you to make this statement? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it is just that some are more informed than others and I am trying to determine what credibility, if any, to attach to yours.

I have spoken on this subject with a number of elephant hunters whose collective bags run well into four figures( clearly a tad more experience than I have ) who hold this opinion, or more correctly, I agree with them.

I have read where some Africans actually run up behind elephants and "hamstring" them and the procede to spear the immobilised animal to death. Crude but effective. Nevertheless they used what means they had at their disposal.

We ( modern day hunters ) have vastly more effective ways of hunting and out of respect to the elephant should use them!

Last night I was thumbing through (for the umteenth time) what I consider the bible on elephant hunting,"Ndlovu" by Richard Harland and in chapter 15 he makes a number of comments on the subject we are discussing.....


..."The archery sport hunter has an even easier answer to the question of whether his piece is suitable for elephant- No. Not ever"


..."To consider going after an elephant with the knowledge of the inadequacy of one's weapon to perform under all dangerous circumstances is, quite frankly, contemptible.


..." Worse still, the unacceptably high risk of wounding and losing the animal should not be tolerated. To be so reliant on the backup of the professional hunter's big bore rifle surely defeats totally the idea of being man enough to finnish what one starts."


I am am not even qualified to tie the boot laces of a guy like Harland, but I am entitled to agree with his and other suitably experienced elephant hunter's opinions.


By the way "Ndlovu" is a fantastic read, if you are interested in elephant hunting it is a must have.I got mine from www.rowlandward.com. I see that it is also available from www.craigboddington.com

quote:

Originally posted by jbderunz:

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:
Hunting elephant with a bow is plain fucking irresponsible stupidity, end of story!!

Pichon1
You have the merit to clearly express your point of view.
Don’t count on me to quarrel with any Pichon, I have the utmost respect for them.
pichon 1
pichon 2

Always the "Comtesse". Since I drank her '82 life has not been the same, neither lamentably has the contents of my wallet!!

I admire your "guts" if not your methods.

Pichon1

Fair enough. But I think there's a difference between knowing a lot about hunting elephants, knowing a lot about bow hunting, and knowing a lot about bow hunting elephants. The man is unquestionably knowledgeable about elephant hunting, but that does not mean he wound know which end on the bow points up let alone the capabilities of a modern compound bow! That said for all I know about Harland he may be the African Fred Bear, I'm just making a point.

Brett

As a BASA member we are priveledged to spend time with such men as Richard Harland, a fellow member. If I were to plan an ele hunt, it is certainly to a reference such as him I would turn.

Obviously bow-hunting ele is possible, and is done on a voluntary basis by client and PH. I do not believe we have the right to call an end to it any more than an animal rightist has the right to stop our more typical style of hunting.

My concern however, is how do we (majority) of hunters who cannot or will not do it view it in the greater context of hunting?

My view is we see it as an EXTREME SPORT. One of those things we watch in awe, knowing we will never do ourselves. Kind of like climbing Everest, or single handed circumnavigation of the globe. Or Richard Branson's quests to go into space in a balloon, or perhaps going down Niagra falls in a barrel or ultra deep free diving.......crazy, but interesting.

Perhaps, once a lot of people have bow hunted ele, the next challenge will be bow hunting ele with another bow as your only back-up ???

/

As much as I respect Richard Harland, I'm not comfortable with the concept of saying a certain hunting method is completely inappropriate...especially if it's legal. That is too divisive, which is not good in today's political environment. We do too much of that as hunters already.

When Buzz found out that I was also a bowhunter, he really wanted me to bring my bow along with my rifle. I told him that in NO way was I prepared for such an attempt and didn't think I wanted to ever try it. For me personally, it's not a good idea. If someone else wants to try it and the PH is ok with it, that's all that matters. We don't hunt for the approval of other people right? I certainly don't.

I'm quite sure what Mr. Harland was refering to is this: Picture a line of soda or beer bottles in a row, looking at them from above. This layout is actually quite close to the rib layout. Having handled a few of these ribs and hunted buffalo with archery gear in a couple of places with HEAVY gear I'm going to say that on a straight broadside opportuinty you are around 50% BEFORE YOU RELEASE THE ARROW. At it's widest point, there is no chance to achieve significant penetration. As you follow the radius around to where it meets the next rib, you do have a chance to acheive penetration, but IMO it is less than 50%. And then there is this: We have all seen videos where the arrow did acheive complete penetration , only to have the animal recovered days later, perhaps in a different time zone.

Alf- With greatest respect, modern archers must achieve complete penetration to have a chance for success, so any comparison to the Wata and poison are "apples and oranges". They were incredible hunters!

quote:

what really constitutes small game ?

Not Elephant.....

If it weighs less than me it's small game.

If it weighs more than a fridge it's big game.

Guys, of all the sage logic comming out of this topic, the general feeling as captured in YD's statement:
"If someone else wants to try it and the PH is ok with it, that's all that matters. We don't hunt for the approval of other people right? I certainly don't."
is to me a fundamentally critical one for all hunters to respect. To each his own, so long as it's legal, ethical (which of itself is a contentious issue) and in harmony with the concept of conservation through sustainable utilisation.

Men that have shot hundreds of ele are against it, and on the other side there are those that would take a bow to his first ele. So be it!

And if we don't lose a few hunters and PH's each year to large angry animals, why do we call it "Dangerous Game Hunting"

quote:

I'm happy to supply the bullets if someone wants to put together a proper test (waste their time) doing the comparison.

I don't think it'd be a total waste of time if I cold get some of your bullets to play around with...

I have no doubt of what the results would be...but it'd be nice to "bust" a myth...