I don't mean to set off the various atheists, agnostics and general curmudgeons out there, but what do those of you who consider yourselves men and women of faith think about mixing hunting and mission work on a trip to Africa?
I know of several who do this, and also deduct some of their expenses from their taxes.
I am no saint; far from it. I am an admitted sinner of top-drawer caliber whose faith, like the Brazos River in the song, is a mile wide and an inch deep.
But I don't think I could deduct anything in good conscience unless the hunting was just an adjunct affair and it was my faith (and not my love of hunting) that drove me to make the trip.
I don't know why I'm bringing this up, as it is obviously a matter for each individual. I guess what prompted it was a big long thread on another forum about this hunting trip combined with building a fence for a village in Botswana. It sounded real heroic, but then it turned out the fence these guys built wasn't to protect crops or anything serious. It was about 30 feet of privacy fence near the village showers. It was something even a tool klutz like me could have done with a six pack of beer and a spare afternoon. I was unimpressed and even embarrassed for these folks -- and ashamed that this was represented as Christianity in action.

I have mixed hunting and fishing trips with missionary work, set up free health clinics, free medical care etc., but I never ever tried to deduct any expenses off my taxes,,,just doing what I felt compeled to do, just a matter of faith. The problem now with doing it in Africa is the logistics. You can carry a bible and share your faith anywhere,, but being able to take enough supplies, tools, medicine, etc requires working with their govenments, etc, now days, almost impossible. The last trip was in south America and we just took a bunch of cash and bought the medicines we needed and had minimal equipment with us. Tough to make any real, long term impact for the folks. We found teaching locals hygeine, food prep, first aid lasted much longer and had more impact.

Bill,

What I don't understand and this may have litte to do with your post is why more people go on these mission trips and don't add on some recreational time for themselves. I've talked to a number of these folks and they just look at me with a blank stare when I mention they could have easily done this or that. Afrca isn't all extreme poverty. It's almost as if any fun these folks could have had would somhow have reduced the benevolent feeling they recieved from the mission work.

Mark

My wife and I did this last June. We organized (with others) a medical clinic in Kenya and then went to Zim to hunt. It was sort of a pain from a logistics perspective but it all worked out and we had a great exerience in Kenya and a terrific hunt with Mokore in Zim.

As far as lasting effect - as part of the medical clinic my wife and others taught a week long course on nutrition, HIV management, basic first aid and other topics that probably had as much long term effect than the clinic. We saw 2,500 people in 5 days at the clinic but many of those folks are probably still sick today. The training lasts (hopefully).

Were I to be involved in missionary or charity work in africa or asia or anywhere other than Dillingham AK I would be taking away from the missionary or charity work needed right here in Dillingham.

Ofcourse there are dire needs in other places than my home and ofcourse they need immediate attention, but I choose to spend my effort on the needy here on the other side of my driveway gate.

That is what we did. See the report below.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4681021841

Each trip we have made has been dovetailed with our desire to help and serve those in Africa.
Not to sound "holier than thou", but that is what we like to do.

Service adds a great dimention to your trip.

Nothing wrong with a little hunting after the Lords work make's you enjoy it even more.
I did one to Kenya and Tanzania then off to Namibia for a hunt.
Did not even consider the tax deal but paid all my own airline and all the Visa's and other expenses. Do It have a great time.
The Mission Work does not end with the trip it lasts a life time.
Larry

In '07 my wife and I did a 10-day hunt with Chifuti in Zim then spent 2 weeks at the Rafiki village in Zambia. Rafiki is a Christian orphanage with a pretty good system set up in 10 southern african countries. No charity is perfect and they all have their quirks, but we support this one. (http://www.rafikifoundation.org/)

We hung some ceiling fans, I painted the front gates (while the amicable, but apparently helpless guards watched) and my wife, an RN, helped with some initial screenings of the children and treated a newly arrived little girl with a skin condition. She also got to see what the local "clinic" was like and she still talks about it.

To Mark's point, we even took a break in the middle of the 2 weeks and flew to Vic Falls for the weekend at a nice hotel on the Zambian side. If that makes me a decadent heathen, so be it. I didn't take a rifle. I just used an extra my PH has. I would do the trip again.

Doing manual labor in Africa is like carrying coals to Newcastle.

If you are an MD, RN, pastor etc. fine. If you just want to write off your hunt then you will probably get your rewards, not in heaven, but from the IRS.

quote:

Doing manual labor in Africa is like carrying coals to Newcastle

I've done one short term "mission trip".
We helped dig an drain ditch.
The place we were helping turned away locals who were looking for work on a daily basis.

The amount a $$ we spent flying there, lodging, food etc for one week could have employed a village for several months or more.

If you have a needed skill like medical, engineering etc that's one thing but doing manual labor is another.

We spent $3k a piece to do maybe 50 hours of labor. Do the math on that in a country where people live on $2 a day.

It's a drain on the local resourses.

If you want to help people send $$ to an established mission that is already on the ground and running.

You want to spread the word God then feed, clothe the masses. If you have an empty belly you only worry about one thing.

When I returned from my short term mission; there was an initial feeling of satisfaction; you know, the cliches you hear of " they were so happy in their poverty" and I felt so good showing that there was love to share etc.

That goes away when you examine what you did and if you were doing it for yourself or them.

As you can probably tell; I have some strong feelings about short term mission trips.

I'm an MK who grew up without a rifle in Africa.

Do the mission, hunt the game, give the meat away, claim no deductions. God knows your heart and reasoning. Forget about philanthropic fuzzy-wuzzy thoughts and know that food, medicine, building, ALL brings attention to God nicely (which glorify actually means, BTW.)

Harvested 5 buff and 6 wildebeest in the Gonabisi one afternoon. Fed a lot of village folks. Does this qualify as a charitable contribution?

Give me a break. The "hunt" was a blast, I was happy to do it, and writing off the cost never crossed my mind.

I have taken medical supplies that I obtained from www.map.org , a Christian group that has a 99% rating as to efficiency (which is the best in the business, I think). I'm not a physician, but I was allowed to take the stuff because I had a prescription?? for it from a licensed doctor (or maybe it was a dentist?) in Burkina Faso. Anyway, I knew some Baptist missionaries in the country and they got me in touch with the clinic so that I could find out what was needed and get the "order". MAP packed the meds in response.

The shipment was about the size of two foot lockers and had rehydration salts, antibiotics, etc. The airlines didn't charge for the excess baggage and BF didn't charge customs. I think the whole shipment cost me $500 (MAP's overhead) of which my local Rotary Club paid most. I believe that the retail value of what I took was $28,000.00.

The clinic was already established and they used the meds in their normal course of services and gave some of the shipment to other clinics. They were very, very happy to get the stuff and drove about 200 kilometers to meet me at the airport to get it.

You may wish to investigate that sort of thing if you are not a medical professional. Again www.map.org

The amazing thing about taking the shipment was when I was in the town of Po and actually (and unexpectedly) saw a Rotary financed anti-polio mobile inoculation van that had some of the sterile wipes I brought, using them before injections, I guess.

Of course, I took a $28K deduction for the meds, $6k for the flight (first class) and am sure I have a special crown in heaven. LMAOROTF!!!

It's a long story in that I didn't even know Burkina Faso even had game animals when I began planning the trip, but I did go hunting while there and took a great Western buffalo, an excellent roan and some other animals. That was reward enough.

I've often wondered about doing something along these lines. Hunt mornings and evenings, then provide medical care mid-day. Really a combined thing, not just an add on at the beginning or end.

On the other hand, I'm a surgeon, not a primary care doc, and I'm not sure how much need I would fill.

Whether you actively spread the Word, along with your actions, or whether you just simply let your actions speak for you, I think that anyone who takes supplies, be it educational, medical, hygenic, etc etc. is doing the Lord's work and following His will. And, if more hunters would do that, their Safaris will be much more satisfying!

The posts here have made me feel a whole lot better. Thank you. As I said, I'm not quite sure what motivated me to bring it up ...

Good grief.

I hear the LRA in Congo could use some missionaries. I hear their victims have plenty already though...
Also, you don't need to be a missionary to be charitable...

quote:

Originally posted by JabaliHunter:
I hear the LRA in Congo could use some missionaries. I hear their victims have plenty already though...
Also, you don't need to be a missionary to be charitable...

Having walked in the wake of the LRA...don't go anywhere near where they are in existence!

quote:

If you want to help people send $$ to an established mission that is already on the ground and running.

I first heard an ambassador from the US to some country that I forgot mention the above and said the money saved from American's traveling could do more good in the hands of locals.

quote:

Originally posted by Singleshot03:

quote:

If you want to help people send $$ to an established mission that is already on the ground and running.

I first heard an ambassador from the US to some country that I forgot mention the above and said the money saved from American's traveling could do more good in the hands of locals.

They could buy/brew more beer!

wow look at goldeneye trying to stir something up by attacking others beliefs. way to go douche

The IRS guidelines on how to do it are pretty clear.

quote:

wow look at goldeneye trying to stir something up by attacking others beliefs. way to go douche

Thx. N.

I guess you'll forgive me


The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Christ in the place of the sun, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun.

Thomas Paine
1737-1809

Goldeneye. You have your right to your theories, but I specifically addressed this to AR members who consider themselves people of faith. I can't imagine why a thoughtful atheist would want to comment on the actual point in question.
Very best,
Bill

My experience of many missionaries in Zambia is that the acquisition of a fully kitted out top of the range hunting vehicle is their main priority.

The attraction for some in Africa is not the pursuit of faith but rather the animals.

Thou shall not kill?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
My experience of many missionaries in Zambia is that the acquisition of a fully kitted out top of the range hunting vehicle is their main priority.

The attraction for some in Africa is not the pursuit of faith but rather the animals.

Not sure what you mean as to the latter, but I would add only a damned right.

As to the former, now that I consider it, a damned right is warranted there as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scott:
The IRS guidelines on how to do it are pretty clear.

Pray tell!!

IRS Publication 526
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf

A google search will give you some ideas on how people do the planning and record keeping.

Of note:

Generally, you can claim a charitable contribution deduction for travel expenses nec- essarily incurred while you are away from home performing services for a charitable organization only if there is no significant element of personal pleasure, recreation, or vacation in the travel. This applies whether you pay the expenses di- rectly or indirectly. You are paying the expenses indirectly if you make a payment to the charita- ble organization and the organization pays for your travel expenses.
The deduction for travel expenses will not be denied simply because you enjoy providing services to the charitable organization. Even if you enjoy the trip, you can take a charitable contribution deduction for your travel expenses if you are on duty in a genuine and substantial sense throughout the trip. However, if you have only nominal duties, or if for significant parts of the trip you do not have any duties, you cannot deduct your travel expenses.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by JabaliHunter:
I hear the LRA in Congo could use some missionaries. I hear their victims have plenty already though...
Also, you don't need to be a missionary to be charitable...

Having walked in the wake of the LRA...don't go anywhere near where they are in existence!

Eastern DRC is a living hell. The LRA isn't the only problem. They recently arrived after getting chased out of Uganda. Rwandan militias and other groups in a hellish mix of rape, murder and pillage. The Hutu and Tutsi are still at it. If you want to go on living, that's a good place to say out of. Too many cooks stirring the kettle.

I worked with several relief agencies over several years in various disturbed areas and the two I admire most are Doctors Without Borders and the International Committee of the Red Cross. They are effective and well managed. And the dedication of their people is something to behold. Supporting their efforts would definitely be helping the helpless.

Something More Safaris coordinates these activities for those interested in participating in Humanitarian efforts during a safari. They work in conjunction with the Boddington Fund that was established by the Boddington's to provide a pool of funds for PH's and their families that have been injured or worse. I have met David Dunn on a few occasions. He oversees this effort and is a great guy. Here is a link to their site where you can read more about this program.
http://somethingmoresafaris.com/about.php