I'm curious to hear how you pick an Outfitter for your hunt... Do you book at the conventions or on the internet? Do you base your final decision on price, personal recommendations from friends / family? Or do you use a booking agent and let him pick an Outfitter for you? In the poll I've posted some questions which may shed some light on the matter but I'm looking forward to hearing any other opinions on the matter.

Thanks

Question:
When I book my hunt I...

Choices:
Use a Booking Agent
Book direct with the Outfitter
Either or (doesn't really matter to me)

Question:
Price is an important factor in selecting an Outfitter for my safari

Choices:
Decidedly important
Important
Not important

Question:
When selecting an Outfit ...

Choices:
I look for the cheapest daily rates and trophy fees I can get
I'm wary of cheap prices (what you pay is what you get)
I'm wary of cheap prices but I will book a "cheap" safari with a reputable outfitter
Expensive rates = a reputable Outfitter that's why I'll book with him
None of the above

Question:
A 1X1 plains game hunt in South Africa should be priced at a daily rate of...

Choices:
$250 - $300
$300 - $350
$350 - $400
$400 +
None of the above

Question:
When picking an Outfitter...

Choices:
I book with the one I hunted with on my previous trip because I had a good time with them
I look for another Outfitter because I think I can do better
I look for another Outfitter because I want a new experience
None of the above

Question:
When selecting an Outfitter for the first time...

Choices:
I'll look into one that was referred to me by my friends / family
I look for one with favorable hunt reports on AR
None of the above

Question:
I will book hunt with an Outfitter only if I get an opportunity to meet him first

Choices:
Yes
No

 

Chris,
Some of the questions are a little hard to answer. The question regarding price can have several answers. I do believe you get what you pay for but on the other hand a reputable outfitter offering a cheap hunt would be worth the risk. The question regarding selecting an outfitter also has more than one answer for me. I would book with an outfitter I'd previously had a good experience with but certainly would follow good recommendations from AR.

If it helps any, I'd prefer to get recommendations from people that think of hunting the same way I do. If one or more people that I like or like to hunt with had a good time with this or that particular hunt than I'd feel comfortable booking with the same. Meeting the outfitter at one of the shows isn't nearly as important to me since everyone is on their best behavior there.

Chris,

I obviously haven't voted but regarding what outfit I choose for an African hunt, but I personally go for khaki shirt and trousers from Trapper's Trading, wide brimmed hat complimented by my .500 Jeffery, but I had heard that in some circles, it's rather de rigeur to either go for shocking pink outfit from Coco Chanel or a nice bandana and Christian Dior outfit with tightly buckled crocodile skin belt..... but only if you want to let the enraged beast decide how he wants to die!



Sorry about that mate, I just couldn't resist it!

Scott, thanks, I've changed the poll a bit - also allowing a choice of "none of the above" for some answers.

Steve, thanks for that. I guess using the word "outfit" as opposed to "Outfitter" was a Freudian slip...

Chris,
As Mark Young says, I am a tire kicker. I rely on "feel" on picking an outfit or an agent.

I do not look for the cheapest deal as that never has worked for me.

I have booked direct and via an agent. I will do both again. In an agent, I want no BS, no exagerations but "reasonable expectations". In an outfitter, I want him to do what he says he will do and no excuses. I pay upfront and well in advance of the trip, so I expect no suprises.

Notice, I have not mentioned "trophy quality". I am not into "inches" and could care less about a 50" vs. a 55" kudu. The experience is what I am after. When I start hearing "we put you on SCI gold this or Rowland and Ward that" I go elsewhere. I want to know that I will see game and have a chance to hunt, actually hunt on foot with trackers. I do not care one bit about volume of animals shot. I am after the experience.

I like to meet the safari outfitter "eye to eye" and will travel to shows or wherever to do so. The phone is nice, but I want to see the person I am spending a large amount of cash with.

Extra emphasis on "I want no suprises" on the deal, the location or the PH. Changes are rarely ever in my best interest. They usually occur because someone has over scheduled or over committed themselves. Changes = cancelled hunt to me and I will expect a 100% refund if "you" change the deal. If I book via an agent, I will expect you to honor every word of the "deal" and if changes occur, you will refund my money to me that day.

I make no apology for being hard-headed on this, but it is my money and I will buy on my terms. These types of vacations are purely optional and my money can go many places other than "here".

My opinion.

Chris,

It is an intersting survey, but impossible to breakdown a complex decision into only a few fators. One way to level the field would be to ask how a client selected their FIRST African hunt. I know many of us take an entirely different view of booking a safari after having been on several trips.
Lots of mistakes are made by first time African hunters, and I suspect the overall selection procedure is far less rational and much more emotional. That said, most still have a very good time, hence the desire to return. On my first trip, I was personally fortunate to meet a PH at one of the shows, strike up a conversation and book the hunt over the course of the weekend. I wasn't even planning to go to Africa when I visited the show. I had done no homework, etc., and had never really considered hunting Africa. Having been back for 7 trips and three countries now, I guess it must have worked out ok! I do take an entirely different approach at this stage of my African hunting experience.

Cheers!

Bill

Bill,
Please share your approach to booking a trip after your 7 previous trips. I would like to know how others think.

Thanks Dogcat and Bill (Llamapacker) and thanks to those who have participated in the poll so far. I find the results interesting!

I realize that the questions posed in the poll can never give a true reflection of the decision making process from a client perspective hence my request for opinions from forum members in my original post... My aim was / is to get some sort of indication of the thought process involved in a "typical" client making a decision on picking an Outfitter for an African hunt.

See; over the years I have had quite a variety of inquiries and resultant bookings... from the clients who sent one email requesting a quote for a hunt who, upon my replying email immediately accepted the quote and asked for deposit payment details without asking any questions about the hunting area, lodgings references etc... to those who entered in lengthy email correspondence / telephone calls with me about issues such as: "What is covered by the daily rates?", "What size trophies of the target species could be expected?", "What the hunting method would be i.e. walk & stalk, drive and shoot?" and so forth...

I'm eager to learn a bit more about the thought process from a client's perspective involved in finally making that booking. Do issues such as a speedy reply to the initial inquiry have a negative connotation - meaning that the Safari Company is not "busy" enough giving them time to read emails (or spend time on AR) instead of hunting with clients? Or does it have a positive connotation i.e. that the Outfitter cares about his business and does the best he can to stay in touch? Does the perceptive "size" of a safari Company play a role? E.g. If you receive an email back from a "Director" of a Safari Company impress you more than a simple email from the operator under his own name?

I realize that my original poll does not include some of these questions but changing the questons now will warp the result so maybe we can open a debate on the issue?

Again I thank everyone for their participation so far.

Regards,

Chris

Chris,
To give an opinion on some of your questions - I want to talk to the person in charge, not a director or president or grand vizier. I want the decision maker answering my questions. I do not care about the size of the outfit so long as it has the people and area with the experience to provide what I am looking for. I expect a response in 24 hrs if I contacted them via email or a reason for a delay. I understand they may be out hunting. As a salesman, you will have all types of customers - some ask a lot of questions, others do not. I expect answers to questions even if they seem silly.

I do not care about a "slick" website with a lot of pictures. I am interested in the trip description and what to expect. I have booked with Mr. Slick website and with Mr. "I have no website". A website is like a business card -- it gets you remembered and in front of a potential customer. After that, I rely on the conversations and written correspondance.

At the end of it, I ask myself, can I trust this guy to do what he says? If I believe he will - I make the deposit.

Thank you for your input Dogcat.

Good comments - however too many variables - what works for one client doesn't necessarily work for another. I have gained a fair amount of clients - and also not booked a fair amount as well - simply because I tell it like it is. I dont sell a hunt by trying to make it sound to good to be true, besides the positives, I also tell the client about the possible negatives that could be experienced on safari - some clients dont like this - as they want to hear the fairy tale - rather than the truth !We are working in natural environments - and as with all things involving nature - things are not always going to be predictable - we can only call on our past experiences to help us do our best to ensure that clients have a good safari. If everything was predictable - most of us would not go on safari - as its the sense of adventure and the unknown that really draws one to Africa ! Record books and measuring tapes do not feature highly on my selling points list - as I WILL ALWAYS go the extra mile to ensure that a client gets the best possible trophy that can be expected from the areas we hunt.This may sound arrogant - but I prefer to sell the real experience - rather than the sugar coated dream ! Word of mouth, and references from previous clients is still the best form of advertising. Thats the way it is !

I don't know there is any "right answer" to these types of questions, and clearly each person has a different approch. Hence the differences in approaches used by PH / Outfitters in their marketing.

My current preference is for smaller operators. A small company like CMS ifts the bill perfectly. I like to talk with the PH directly (e-mail or phone), and easily get frustrated by the "spin" provided by the fly by night booking agents. (This is not a knock against the "real" booking agents out there.) If the PH is in the field hunting, a reply from office staff acknowledging the contact is much appreciated, with a time frame for when to expect a direct response from the PH.
I want to hear about the size of the property (concession?) and the hunting style. I'm willing to hunt for certain species behind a reasonable sized high fence, but when someone starts talking about "free ranging buffalo or lion" on 1000 hectares, I know to find someone else. Likewise, while I understand I will be spending a fair amount of time in a Landcruiser on certain properties, when the PH tells me shooting from the truck is the only practical way to be "successful" in X days of hunting, I move on as well. For a DG safari I want to know this isn't the PH's first year hunting eles or whatever, and that he enjoys being close to the animals every bit as much as just killing them.

I'm probably one of the few people out there who doesn't plan months and years ahead for my next safari. When I see an opening in my schedule for a hunt within the next month or two, I contact a number of reputable operators ad see what they still have available during that time frame. I do pay attention to the "deals" on AR as well, and occassionally follow-up on these offers. A couple outfits I've hunted with previously are at the top of my contact list, but I'm always intersted in new and different opportunities as well. I will consider an "unknown" outfit if I can get some references, etc. I've booked three of my safaris at one of the sportsmens shows, after meeting with the PH's. One of these trips was booked only after talking with the PH for a couple years previously at the shows.(This was my best trip ever!) The other two were booked the same weekend I met the PH. Two of my trips were booked with PH's solely after learning about them on AR, and through e-mail contact prior to the hunt. Neither had websites or glossy brochures. One of these trips turned out great, the other not so good.

There isn't a magic answer. I approach the booking a little differently if my wife or kids will be joining me on the trip. I'm willing to roll the dice a bit more when traveling alone. Lots of intangibles, that probably change every year and prior to each hunt. No doubt the relative success (or lack thereof) on my previous hunt will influence my process the next time. I do know that I have learned to read the sugar coated hunting reports on AR very carefully before giving them too much weight. It seems few are willing to even hint at negatives on their trip, for a whole host of reasons. I enjoy the reports, but want to talk to the author in person to get into a few more of the details before really making a decision.

Just a bit of rambling as I contemplate what / where I will be hunting in 2010.

Bill

quote:

When I book my hunt I...

Either book direct or through a booking agent but in either case I need serious first hand knowledge or trusted second hand knowledge. There are far to many shady characters in the booking industry and the same goes for operators. I've been lucky so far I've only been bent over (attempted bending anyway)once and that was by a "highly regarded" outfitter.

"Price is an important factor in selecting an Outfitter for my safari"

Price is definitely a factor but I won't do the to good to be true deals either as they generally are. I am also fully aware as to the price differential between South Africans and Americans when it comes to hunting in South Africa. I tend to try and find the best deal in the best area not the cheapest hunt per say. And that is a big part of the reason why I try top cut out the booking agent on areas that I am familiar with. I don't see any reason to pay the 15% that a booking agent gets from for his services if I know the area and I will negotiate that out of the daily's for most part.

"When selecting an Outfit .."

I will do a cheap deal with a reputable outfitter if the circumstances warrant it IE it's an end of the season deal or a cancellation. Expensive rates are just that, expensive they don't mean squat as far as quality is concerned. Obviously some areas are going to command a higher rate than others.

"A 1X1 plains game hunt in South Africa should be priced at a daily rate of..."

It would have to be a huge ranch with outstanding hunting for me to pay over $400 a day in South Africa. Once again the daily fee's are dependent on the quality of the property. the problem with Ranch hunting in South Africa is that all of them try to portray themselves as top notch but really very few are. I've showed up on places that are under 1,000 acres under one high fence. I've stayed at one that was right next to a major highway with truck traffic rumbling by all night not 50 yards from the "camp". These were places that I researched back when I was working for a booking agent. Buyer beware in South Africa. Or anywhere for that matter.

"When picking an Outfitter.."

I pick one who has serious local knowledge is experienced, has a decent personality and isn't trigger happy. Oh and he happens to be in the area I want to hunt. I don't mind young PH's but I can't stand the guy who try's to BS his way through a hunt if you don't know tell me. Because I can tell real quick when you are not on the level.

"When selecting an Outfitter for the first time..."

I will take information that I read on AR and research it but I don't trust anything on this sight verbatim. There have been several sleaze bag operators and booking agents operating on this sight for years and some of them even have glowing recommendations. But you have to remember that there is no accountability on the net and guys stick up for their friends or perceived buddies be it as it may.

"I will book hunt with an Outfitter only if I get an opportunity to meet him first."

No but once again unless he has a very good and established reputation I am not interested. A no BS first hand recommendations from trusted allies is good enough for me most of the time.

The survey's a little tricky to answer, but the bottom line for me is that I picked my first outfitter based on recommendations from trusted friends who are very experienced in hunting Africa.

The outfitter is relatively expensive, but always produces opportunities for world class trophies and both understands and appreciates handgun hunting. And, if, as the day approaches, he doesn't think that current conditions will produce what we'll both consider an outstanding outcome, he will always be candid about his thoughts as well as be prepared to adjust our plans to improve our chances.

Given all of that, I've stayed with my first outfitter for every hunt and see no reason to change. I'm certain that there are many other outfitters that could/would make me happy, but why take the chance? African hunting is a rare and fleeting opportunity -- not a place where I look for the lowest bidder or where I want to take any chance of not having the opportunity to be as successful as my own talents permit every time.

Just my own take. I can certainly see where lots of folks would take another course.

For me:

1) Does he have control over the land we are hunting. Either has to own or sole concession rights.

2) Is it all fair chase, I personally don't like high fences regardless of size.

3) Will I really get to hunt. I don't like spotting from the truck followed by a 50 yard stalk. I prefer to walk alot.

4) Is the price fair? and are there no silly charges. Such as the $200 1 way transfer from the airport to camp when the Outfitter is driving me. Sure there is a cost but are you telling me the outfitter had no other business in town?

There are probably a few others that I look at but that should give you a feel.

Hi Chris,

I've only been to Africa to hunt PG once with my son last year...However, I wanted to say what works for me...

I'll use a booking agent "only" if he/she has a great deal of integrity...this is not easy to find...so I "prefer" to deal straight with the Outfitter/PH from the get-go.

Price is definitely an issue for me...I'm not looking for cheap, but I'm definitely looking for the BEST VALUE!!! The PH, location, quality/abundance of trophy-sized game, accomodations, distance to game farm/concession from airport, and I find more pleasure in hunting one and/or a neighboring farm/concession versus several. After a long flight I'm happy to hunt with an outfitter that has all the game I desire in one location...hate to travel once on the ground...I enjoy hunting one place, having fun, and hunting it hard...again just my preference.

For me the PH is the #1 selling factor...PERIOD

I'd rather hunt with someone who is a seasoned professional who is able to produce hunt after hunt...whether it be a PH or guide...someone with integrity and is passionate about hunting, not just someone who is doing it for the money...

Forums like these are great because I can learn through threads/posts and PM's which booking agents to avoid and which ones to trust!

Same with Outfitters/PH's...which ones to avoid and which ones who will hunt hard and give their very best to SERVE their clients!

Integrity is #1

Game always comes second for me...

I'd rather hunt any day with a "great" Outfitter/PH who has only average-sized trophy game on his property, than booking a hunt through an agent who is questionable with a Outfitter/PH with integrity issues who has HUMONGOUS trophy-sized animals...

Many of my hunter/friends feel the same and we rely heavily on recommendations from others who have great overall experiences throughout the entire process!

Also, being the only hunters in camp makes a big diff for us too...paying the monies to be there and getting excellent service is our primary concern as well...

As I've mentioned to you before through prior posts, that I believe you are a top-notch outfitter and I know my son and I would be ecstatic for the opportunity to hunt with you one day...however, Namibia is our preferred hunting destination for now...

Wish you well and hope you continue to expand and prosper in these tough economic times ahead for all of us...I believe we haven't seen the worst yet!

God Bless!

Cris, Interesting topic and was glad to answer your questions.On two of the questions I felt there were other factors which contribute to my decision making which were not part of the answer choices. On picking an outfitter or guide or PH , I'm looking for someone who is honest, hardworking, good at what he does and above all a pleasant- nice- respectful person to be paying my money to. The other question pertaining to the 1st time outfitter choice, I would add that the Hunting Report hunt reports and the Accurate Reloading forum are in valuable tools to weed out the bad, and narrow down the good guys. I also feel thats what a reputable booking agent should do but the same scrutiny applies to them.
Scott

Chris,

I found your poll very interesting. I might have a different point of view because of my personal expereince and because I'm in the busness so I'm going to give it a shot.

When I book my hunt I....

I honestly think on a first safari, a safari in new country to you or if you just don't have the time or inclination to do the research you should use an agent. If you want to do the arrangements yourself with an outfitter you've used before you probably don't need an agent. Of course you need to pick an agent with some background in the type of hunt you are looking for and ideally he should have done the hunt himself.

Price is an important factor in selecting an oufitter for my safari

Price is important to everybody I deal with. The point is to get a good value for your dollar. That can mean buying a top shelf hunt with a commensurate price.

When selecting an outfit.....

Looking for the cheapest price is probably the worst possible way to select a safari because if prices are considerable below normal level there has to be a something that is not being provided.

A 1x1 plains game hunt in South Africa should be priced at a daily rate of......

This should be priced totally depends on what you are getting for the dollars. Are you hunting fairly small properties where the operator owns nothing or is there a magnificent lodge, large property and a golf course?

When picking an outfitter.....

Any of the choices are relevenat dependent on situation. Personally I generally look for a different experience each time which of course could be with the same outfit I hunnted with before.

When selecting an outfitter for the first time......

Personally I think going on a buddie's recommendation could be the worst of all ways to make a choice. You have to consider what his actual expereince may be. If he had a good, poor or bad expereince is his assessment based on 1 safari or 10? Check every source and then make a choice.

I will book a hunt with an outfitter only if I get the opportunity to meet him first

Face to face is nice but as my astute friend/client Scott King said in a face to face these guys will always be on their best behavior. It also is often not practical to meet the operator for a number of reasons.

Mark

Thanks everyone. I truly value your input...

Thanks to you in particular LateBloomer - I hope to have the pleasure of hunting with you too one day when you've gotten over the Namibian thing . (Kidding of course as I know Namibia offers great hunting and I understand why you enjoy hunting there )

As I've indicated - a poll like this can never be conclusive but for me personally it has had value.

I think one thing is clear i.e. that what folks expect from an African hunt varies from person to person. E.g. personal experience has taught me that one client might enjoy the family atmosphere in some hunting camps whilst another might not. And one client prefers to hunt with friends whilst the next prefers to hunt alone... One client does not mind sharing a camp with others whilst for another it is a complete no-no. These are all variables and there are of course several more...

Regards,

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:


Thanks to you in particular LateBloomer - I hope to have the pleasure of hunting with you too one day when you've gotten over the Namibian thing . (Kidding of course as I know Namibia offers great hunting and I understand why you enjoy hunting there )


Regards,

Chris

CT,

Whatever the reason for this post I hope you gleaned some useful information...NONETHELESS, I believe if you keep on doing what you've been doing you will continue to PROSPER...Your WORK speaks for itself and LDK is not a fine booking agent, but a GREAT one IMHO...I believe in him and I believe in you and I think many here feel the same as well, especially after such a FANTASTIC hunting season you had these past years!

Go for it brother...

I believe you have a SOLID reputation, second to none especially on the PG circuit for sure!

Aloha!

Ro

I book based on reputation first, but I like a good deal.

But name alone is not everything. I once booked a hunt after reading a story written by you know who. That hunt with Swanepoel & Scandrol was based totally on his story. That well known writer (hint: we see him on TV every week) got that hunt free according to S&S PH (there was some involvement from a major industry vendor, but to what extent they paid for it, I don't know. I just know the PH, Jeff Covey, said S&S fronted the hunt). Not a good hunt. What I learned: don't book a hunt based on a story you read. Call references. Do your homework. Ask questions. Know what kind of trophy quality you can expect.

On the other hand, if a writer states he paid for a hunt, that means a lot to me. More writers should be upfront with those hunts they pay for - it would certainly be better for the end customer - you.

Another lesson I have learned: if a booking agent has represented an outfitter for years, he probably has done so because he has lots of happy customers. The same thing is not necessarily true of an outfitter who has a writer write about them every year. Again, there are exceptions. Do your homework.

This is actually kind of an interesting thread. It should be clear that there is no single right answer that applies to everyone...

In my case, for the past 25+ years I have relied on a single well regarded and long established agent (Jack Atcheson & Sons) to steer me to my relatively few high end hunts in Alaska, Western US, Mexico and Africa. In that same time I've filled in with big game hunts hunts local to where I've lived (7 different places, including 3 outside of US), and by returning to NM, CO, MT where I've lived or traveled in the past, and where I am quite comfortable hunting on my own. Also in that time I've made a half a dozen trips to Alaska for hunts on my own which has been easy with a resident brother in Eagle River.

On the hunts coordinated by Atcheson, I have never had a bad hunt, and I would gladly go back with any guide or PH I've had the pleasure of hunting with on those trips. Those have been by far my most productive hunts, and I should note, that doesn't mean I've shot all the animals I've sought while hunting with them. But, I've hunted with quality guides/PHs, have enjoyed their company, learned a great deal from them, have been in great areas and have seen plenty of game. It's probably fair to acknowledge that I have also got some superb trophys on those hunts. The only reason I haven't rebooked with some of those outfitters is that I like to keep seeing new areas and focus on different species. 2010 will be Zimbabwe for my fourth trip to Africa, and to a fourth different country there...

With limited time because of work, I have found it is great to call Keith or Jack Jr., discuss windows of opportunity that fit my schedule, and let them help sort the possibilities. They have smoothed out the wrinkles and uncertanities that could likely turn off hunts in many countries. They have also put me on to some very good deals relative to normal advertized prices.

Irony is that, although I have never met Keith or Jack Jr. face to face, I feel like I have known them for many years and they always seen to have the time and patience to update me on current situations and posibilities. I did have the privilege of meeting Jack Sr. coming off a successful "roll your own" Dall Sheep hunt in the Wrangle Mountains in the early 70's. That was my good luck, and set me on what has been a long and very successful relationship. From my experience, a knowledgable, well connected and trustworthy agent is worth a great deal.

Regards, and good hunting,
Emory

In the last 18 months the worldwide recession has turned the Safari business topsy-turvy. I am booking a plains game hunt in RSA for mid-April today. I went with the outfit based about 90% on the 2008 hunts two friends had, and a few reports here.

I would talk seriously with anyone here based on a combination of costs, trophy fees for what I wanted, and references posted here. I trust this group.

50/50 based on reputation and then costs.

Rich