Gentlemen, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a lever action, in fact the lever action is a very quick rifle, for tight cover, and as a rule are rather reliable. Here, let me say the guy in the pictures in Vapodog's link is to be congratulated for the fine trophies, and be asked for the story in full!

However, the problem I find with the guys useing a rifle of any kind chambered for a 45-70 Gov, especially useing Garrette ammo is ILLEGAL to use for dangerous game, above Leopard, in Africa. As suggested, go the Garrette web-site for the ballistics. the lever actions useing the 475 Turnbull cartridge, used by Turnbull are legal, because the balistics are the same as the 450/400NE 3".

I amazes me the guys who say "Who cares if it's illegal",when talking about the old 45-70, and then you see them on a deer hunting forum, cussing all game law violaters, calling the slobb hunters! POT & KETTLE so to speak!

The 45-70 is a good cartridge, and fun to hunt with, especially in some of the better rifles. I have always liked the 45-70, and now own three rifle so chambered, and have owned probably 20 others with that chambering over the years. That however, doesn't change the fact that this cartridge is illegal in Africa for the animals people want to hunt with it! It is a .458 diameter bullet, but it is not a dangerous game cartridge, for pachyderm animals!

I would love to see a well made, strong lever action chambered for a cartridge like the 375 H&H,or458 LOTT, fed from a magazine like a bolt rifle, and CRF. I'm not sure I wouldn't be one of the first to buy one!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Just wouldn't use a lever action, don't own one and probably never will. Just my likes and dislikes no flame.

I agree. John Wayne used a lever action.........Clint Eastwood used the forty-four mag, "it can take your head right off" Thats much cooler plus im sure Clint could have taken the Duke in a fist fight any day.... so no lever actions for me.

I suppose lever actions are ok for DG as long as a person wears a skirt while they are hunting with it.

do not pay attention to this thread - it is just vapodog having an attack of PMS

Big deal.

I can pound nails with a pipe wrench, but that doesn't make it the right tool for the job.

Now I'm gonna go put my blinkers back on, have a taco and make a phone call.

Thanks for spicing things up around here vapodog!

Yep



RAC? Need more butter?

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
Yep



RAC? Need more butter?

Maybe. Where is Cammilo (sp) when we need him!

quote:

im sure Clint could have taken the Duke in a fist fight any day

You're either a commie or a democrap...jorge

How the hell, in 2 pages, did we go from a dude that shot a cape buff, and a hippo, to shootin elephants? Play time is over, I'm goin to bed.

Mad Dog

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
do not pay attention to this thread - it is just vapodog having an attack of PMS

Hey.....I've been busy converting my 99 savage to 458 Lott SAUM.....It's not as easy as I thought!

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
How the hell, in 2 pages, did we go from a dude that shot a cape buff, and a hippo, to shootin elephants? Play time is over, I'm goin to bed.

Mad Dog

I must have missed something! Who said anything about shooting elephants, with a 45-70? Hell it is very marginal for lion, much less elephant!

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
I am sure someone will chime in to correct me if I am wrong. John Pondoro Taylor was credited with around 1200-1500 elephant kills with a 7x57 using 175 and 195 grain bullets moving about 2300 fps, right. Why not some chap with 45-70 nuclear loads?
AB

That was Bell. He accounted for about 1011 elephant of which about 800 I believe were with a 7x57.

And.......... He failed to mention the ones he shot and wounded, and lost, with that 7X57

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
I am sure someone will chime in to correct me if I am wrong. John Pondoro Taylor was credited with around 1200-1500 elephant kills with a 7x57 using 175 and 195 grain bullets moving about 2300 fps, right. Why not some chap with 45-70 nuclear loads?
AB

That was Bell. He accounted for about 1011 elephant of which about 800 I believe were with a 7x57.

And.......... He failed to mention the ones he shot and wounded, and lost, with that 7X57

Good point Mac. You sure as hell wouldn't get me attemptimg ele hunting with a 7x57!! I was just quoting the figures. Me... I'm firmly a subscriber to Pondoro's way of thinking.

The man that invented the telephone wasn´t "the other Bell", it was a man from Itlay, I don't remember his name right now...

Enrico something..?

L

Shot placement does relegate other discussions to secondary importance.

In the case of DG, the correct bullet design is paramount also.

I am not levergun fan, I have owned four different lever rifles from 22LR, 348 Win, 358 Win, & 444 Marlin.

"I just can't like them" as my son used to say about peas. Kudos to those that do.

I am a died in the wool bolt guy, but I do have some fun with Remington 760's and 7600's. Maybe having grown up with a pump shotgun has some bearing on that. Man can you shuck shells with those, if you are so inclined.

Isn't there a 458 caliber round designed for AR style rifles?

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

im sure Clint could have taken the Duke in a fist fight any day

You're either a commie or a democrap...jorge

Nope neither, for sure a Repub, I suppose I just grew up a little late to be a fan of the Duke, plus I just cant relate to a supposed manly man that has cosmetic surgery done on himself......Ever hear the E true holywood story of the Duke....little known fact and yes I am afraid it is true.

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

Good point Mac. You sure as hell wouldn't get me attemptimg ele hunting with a 7x57!! I was just quoting the figures. Me... I'm firmly a subscriber to Pondoro's way of thinking.

The only way I'd take on an elephant with a 7X57 unless that was all I had,and with no other choice but to defend myself from him! Still, I'd rather have the 7X57 with a good solid over a 45-70 with Garrette ammo, for that undertakeing. PONDORO had better sense than to use a little pop gun for shooting dangerous game!

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
The man that invented the telephone wasn´t "the other Bell", it was a man from Itlay, I don't remember his name right now...

Enrico something..?

L

The man who invented the telephone was Alexander Greame Bell, an American. The person Lorenzo is thing of was the inventer of the RADIO, Marconi, an Italian!

It doesn't matter anyway, because the post from Jim Mannion was a toungue-in-cheek joke, that flew right over the collective heads of this thread!


GOOD SHOW JIM!

Here's a little gasoline for the fire

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Here's a little gasoline for the fire

That is Turnbull, and the rifle is chambered for the 475 Turnbull express. This is a fine rifle, and cartridge that is far more capable than a 45-70. This is a cartridge that is based on the old 348 win brass, shooting a 475 bullet, for Africa!

It may look like a Marlin 45-70, but it ain't one! These rifles are easy to get. They are custom made, on the very strong 1887 Winchester plateform, by Turnbull, at a price tag starting in the $5K range! www.turnbullrestoration.com

Still, I would rather have something a little more treditional for hunting Cape Buffalo, but there are no fies flying around this rifle!

That rifle shoots a 400 grain solid mono bullet at 2,200 fps......and that's not far from .416 Rigby performance.....no chickencrap here for sure.

There was a video of an American Bison falling to a shot from this gun.....quite impressive.

If I was a big lever fan (which I no longer am) I'd shoot cape buffalo with that sucker!

Here's a link to the video

Be sure to notice his shell catcher and if you watch closely you can see the impact on the "buffalo"

I just knew there had to be a practical reason for that hat. No one would wear it just for style!

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
The man that invented the telephone wasn´t "the other Bell", it was a man from Itlay, I don't remember his name right now...

Enrico something..?

L

The man who invented the telephone was Alexander Greame Bell, an American. The person Lorenzo is thing of was the inventer of the RADIO, Marconi, an Italian!

It doesn't matter anyway, because the post from Jim Mannion was a toungue-in-cheek joke, that flew right over the collective heads of this thread!


GOOD SHOW JIM!

Thought I'd get a nibble or two, but never expected 'em to swallow the hook!

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I just knew there had to be a practical reason for that hat. No one would wear it just for style!

JPK

I know one double rifle shooter, in particular, who's going to have to get one of those hats! Heck, make it a sombrero!

If we can't agree on the 45/70 then can we just agree that Doug's hat sucks and that no one should ever be allowed to wear one again? I think he may have stolen it from an Amish man! Doug "Yoder" Turnbull

Brett

quote:

Posted 28 August 2008 06:28 Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by butchloc:
do not pay attention to this thread - it is just vapodog having an attack of PMS dancing holycow banana


Hey.....I've been busy converting my 99 savage to 458 Lott SAUM.....It's not as easy as I thought! CRYBABY stir

why do all that work for such a pipsqueek round. work it ove for nothing less that a ruby encrusted 651 whambam mangumem

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Here's a little gasoline for the fire

That is Turnbull, and the rifle is chambered for the 475 Turnbull express. This is a fine rifle, and cartridge that is far more capable than a 45-70. This is a cartridge that is based on the old 348 win brass, shooting a 475 bullet, for Africa!

It may look like a Marlin 45-70, but it ain't one! These rifles are easy to get. They are custom made, on the very strong 1887 Winchester plateform, by Turnbull, at a price tag starting in the $5K range! www.turnbullrestoration.com

Still, I would rather have something a little more treditional for hunting Cape Buffalo, but there are no fies flying around this rifle!

Looks likke he used all his ammo on this bull

I noticed the empty shell holder too, but that rifle is a "load on Monday, shoot all week" type so who knows.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Looks likke he used all his ammo on this bull

I noticed that as well, but that may be that he has reloaded again, both times, before the buff, and after, from the belt.

It is strange, though, that there is no mention of the number of shots, in either his post or on his web-site, or the origenal post that started this thread.

More than a few Cape buffalo have eaten up many rounds from very capable rifles before going down for the count, so, the only reason it bothers me is there is no mention of it at all!

To those who take issue with his hat, there is a good reason for that hat! It is his trade mark, as an antique restorer Sort of like the ventager's dress for their get togethers, and hunts with their old guns.

The .45-70 is the best DG round that's ever been developed and the Marlin 1895 is the finest DG rifle that's ever been produced.

And you are all a bunch of homo's if you don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
The .45-70 is the best DG round that's ever been developed and the Marlin 1895 is the finest DG rifle that's ever been produced.

And you are all a bunch of homo's if you don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
The .45-70 is the best DG round that's ever been developed and the Marlin 1895 is the finest DG rifle that's ever been produced.

And you are all a bunch of homo's if you don't think so.

IN COMEING!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Looks like one of those "catch me, kiss me, screw me hats.
I have a cape buf hunt booked for 2009, I think I'll take my Ruger 10/22, with stingers, I think it should do a good job.

I'm a bit new to this debate but read alot of the controversial posts on several other forums.

The guy Caramello (if its the same guy) posted a bunch of pics from Africa where he killed two decent sized buff with a long barrelled Marlin lever action 45-70.

I'm not sure if its the same guy but them buff were deader thand dead.

Use whatever you want to use (and what your PH will let you use), it's your (and his) life!

One simple question: How come it is that my old .458 Win. Mag. rounds that have been to the shelf 15 years and are producing around 1600-1750 fps with 500-grain solids are "guaranteed to get me stomped," yet a 45-70 shooting a 500-grain bullet at the same velocity "hits like the Hammer of Thor?"

and even more importasnt. Your 458 win mag loads have a Hornady solid, the old one, which were decent bullets. The 45/70 on the other hand is shooting a hard cast lead bullet. High tech for the 1800's. Now, please explain how the 45/70 is even in the same category?

Thanks for the corrections guys. Don't know how I got the father of the TKO formula confused with anyone associated with a relatively miniscule cartridge such as the 7x57. I beg your forgiveness for such an indescretion.

I got my African hunters mixed up.

On another note why is it illegal to use a 45-70 but OK for a guy to use and take the "Big Five" with a Freedom Arms .454 Casull? I am confused. I remember the article a few years back where some guy used the .454 to do just that. I believe the single action had only a 4&3/4 inch barrel and he mostly shot the Corbon 320 penetrators. Surely the power levels are about the same(as Springfield-safe loads)unless we are talking about.......Garret loads-those are ridiculously hot.

Comments????...............

quote:

Originally posted by gi:
SHOT PLACEMENT !!!!!!!!!!

EXACTLY there was a article in the Magnum magazine about a one shot kill on a buff with a muzzleloader 450gr at 1200feet/sec still killed with one shot

every bullet is dangerous especialy if the guy pulling the trigger knows how to use it