Ok guys. I know there are several threads on the 4457. Getting all of my docs in order for my July hunt with Buzz.

Checked my 4457's. There is no date at all on mine other than the date the customs officer signed them.

I understand there are some 4457's out there with a 2012 expiration date in the upper right hand corner and the new ones expire in August of 2019.

Since mine have no date at all, I'm thinking I'm good.

Planning to check all the way through and not claim guns in JoBerg, but you never know. Flights get delayed or canceled.

What say ye all?

Why risk it? You probably aren't that far from a customs office and the new forms would give you piece of mind.

this last july they went by stamped date. I would say you will need a new one.

quote:

Originally posted by Hogbreath:
Why risk it? You probably aren't that far from a customs office and the new forms would give you piece of mind.

I hear you Rick. It's a 5 hour round trip to get new ones. Not a big deal. Just wondering if the old ones without the date are good.

Why leave something so simple to chance? This is a case where not taking care of little details could have ramifications all out of proportion to the inconvenience of getting a new 4457.

Let me see if I can reframe the question.

Has anyone with the older 4457's without the date traveled through JoBerg since the dated 4457 became an issue?

Yes, in October. Brought my laminated ones AS BACK-UP. They will look for a date, and seeing none at all might pass vs. 2012 instead of 2019. Bring "tip"money for unexpected contingencies.

Caveat. I used a service which demanded the new forms. On your own, well, you're on your own.

BTW, take iPhone photos of everything : paperwork, tickets, luggage, guns and serial numbers, etc. Passport page with number, photo too.

In RSA, I think they also want forms signed in the year of your trip too.

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
Yes, in October. Brought my laminated ones AS BACK-UP. They will look for a date, and seeing none at all might pass vs. 2012 instead of 2019. Bring "tip"money for unexpected contingencies.

Caveat. I used a service which demanded the new forms. On your own, well, you're on your own.

BTW, take iPhone photos of everything : paperwork, tickets, luggage, guns and serial numbers, etc. Passport page with number, photo too.

I hear you on the copies. I always take several copies of all documents. Never can tell when some "official" will want one. Went through the Beightbridge border crossing in 2008 with all the unrest at the time. Had two officials want a copy. We spent about 2 hours going through all the offices in the building trying to find a working Xerox machine. They finally just gave up and waived me through. So now, I usually travel with 5 copies of everything just in case.

Just a 5 hour trip? I had to go to Albuquerque to get mine, 9 hours. It would give you a good excuse to get one of your "toys" out and drive it!

quote:

Originally posted by Hogbreath:
Just a 5 hour trip? I had to go to Albuquerque to get mine, 9 hours. It would give you a good excuse to get one of your "toys" out and drive it!

Good point!

Todd,
Are you checked through to Zim or are you overnighting J’berg?

Todd,

They are checking the dates stamps. I would not chance it. I'm having everyone of my guys get a new one for each gun every year. If for some reason they off load your guns and have to recheck them you could be in a mess.

Mark

If the newest form is dated August 2019 what are folks traveling in September doing?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Todd,
Are you checked through to Zim or are you overnighting J’berg?

Going to check all the way through but you know how the best plans can turn out. Any number of things can cause a missed connection and having to overnight in JoBurg.

Interesting about the date stamps though.

So the the JoBerg police are not only checking for a date on the form but are now looking to see a stamp from the customs officer within 12 months? or is it 6 months? or is it within the same calendar year?

Good grief. Crazy.

Easy answer is to just go get a new one but damn, which is it? If every 6 months but also within the same year, you could get a new one stamped in November of 18, go on a hunt in April of 19 and be out of compliance (within 6 months but not in the same year). And any number of other scenarios. Something tells me this is just an opportunity for greasing the SAPS palms and not much more.

Had to get a new 4457 last week for a firearm that I have not previously traveled with. Fortunately, the office is only 30 minutes from home. The CBP agent there said that she had not heard anything about the issuance of a form with a later "expiration" date, but expected that there would be one, and that there would be a rush from those of us needing one. I agree that the officials in Jo'burg are just using this as a shakedown device.

Todd, has it occurred to you that taking a different airline that doesn’t fly through South Africa is a viable way to get to Harare?

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
Todd, has it occurred to you that taking a different airline that doesn’t fly through South Africa is a viable way to get to Harare?

It has. Was planning on going Emirates. But we have decided to go with SAA this time around. Right now, they are offering the best combination of deal ($) and time constraints of my job and my son's job. I think we save a day on each end of the trip going this way.

That switch back to SAA with about 2 months to go is why I'm just now looking at the 4457s.

Never take chances as it could ruin your hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Never take chances as it could ruin your hunt.

I don't take unnecessary chances. That's why I'm asking if anyone who has the old 4457's like mine, without the expiration date, have traveled through JoBurg, or more specifically, cleared weapons in JoBurg, since the expiration date became an issue.

I'm resigned to just go and get new ones but I'd still like to know the answer to my question if anyone has done it. I suspect most hunters traveling through or to RSA don't frequent AR or any other forum. If they book directly, without a meet / greet agency, like I have done many times in the past, I suspect there have been quite a few hunters go through with the old forms as I'm not sure by what means they would be notified of this recent development. Would like to know what the experience was if they happen to participate in or read AR and see this thread.

I cut off the date on the form so they can not get mixed up and then there is only the stamped date. No problems at all that way

When I went in December last year, the folks in SA looked at the stamp. I know because I brought both.

In Zim they cared less. Coincidentally it was the first time the customs guy in Zim didn’t ask for a present (the airlines gal did though...)

I did get some static from US customs as they remember me, and reminded me that the form does not expire. When I explained it to them, they laughed and said I should show them the USG regs that clearly state it is not a license. They were no problem at all...and felt that other bureaucrats were a problem ...

This is just an RSA thing, right?

YES! And thank God!

Mark

Thanks, Mark.

I just got 4457's done last Friday. The newest form they have "expires" 8/31/19. There is not a new one yet. Luckily I am not traveling to South Africa.