Dr B

Time is the enemy of quality hunting - and so is the mighty dollar.

A client gut shoots a giraffe - you spend three days following it. But if you don't have three days? Also, operators (certainly in Zimbabwe) all too often want you to knock the big animal off soon and talk the client into shooting some of their surpluss plains game quota. Client wounds the buff...If you have 30 animals in 14 days to get, can you afford the time to follow it up or do you throw some lead and get the trophy in the salt? - whilst praising the client for a good shot that hit him in the boiler room whilst yours was a bit far back ( because it was running ), when of course the truth is the exact opposite.

A good PH (unlike me) is a man who sends the client home happy, with a repeat booking taken and as much money made for ones employer as possible.

I enjoy the hunt- the killing is almost optional. There are clients who subscribe to the same philosophy- Pete Shepley (PSE bows) and Jake Jacobsen were the last two clients who suscribed to my way of thinking. The hunt was a pleasure (and for the bow hunters out there that want to try big game in Africa I can recomend either man as one who knows the real score ele,buff, lion and leopard with a bow) - but, in todays world where time is money, culture is fading I am becomming out dated and so are many of my ideals

Ganyana
It's a shame that some PHs would want to end a hunt quicker so they can make more money. If they are not happy with their rates then raise them, I would rather pay more for a quality hunt.
I would be very upset if the PH shot my animal other than to save a life. In fact if he shoots just to shoot it's his animal and I wouldn't pay for it.

Dr B

There is more to it than just making money, and avoiding days of tracking wounded animals.

Generic scenario:

The client shoots a buffalo in the leg (or gut or wherever), doesn't break a bone and it takes off. Lots of blood, but it soon dries up. The tracks get mixed up with the rest of the herd. The buff finally splits from the herd but over rocky ground and it is eventually lost.

The buff's wound gets worse and festers for a couple weeks, the buff holes up in thick bush hiding from other hunters and lions. Two weeks later another client walks by the hidden buff and the buff comes......

If you don't want a PH whacking your animal shoot it in the right place the first time. I talk about this in some length in my book, as there are a bunch of reasons to only brain elephants, and the above scenario is one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

... I would be very upset if the PH shot my animal other than to save a life. In fact if he shoots just to shoot it's his animal and I wouldn't pay for it.

Dr B

Perhaps Will's statements will help "DR B" get a better grip on the subject. He had better be willin' to have shooting and hitting any departing, wounded, dangerous game if possible: both the PH and the client.

I will thank the PH for his help in such a situation.

My one cape buffalo got his shoulder broken and his heart pierced by the first shot.

He bucked like a rodeo bull, no shit, arching his back skyward above the mopane thicket, landed pointing 90 degrees away and his butt vanished in the bush in 2 strides. Dead within 50 yards of crashing through the mopane.

Had either my PH or I been able to shoot more, we should have, but we really could not.

No, the PH should not be standing with his sights on the animal as the client shoots. No, the PH should not try to merge the report of his rifle with the client's first shot. No, the PH should not bump the client's elbow as he shoots (or drift his rear sight the night before in camp), in hopes of getting a gut shot buffalo to induce a charge on film ...

BTW, how is it that Mark Sullivan gets so many clients to gut shoot the buffalo? Maybe a percentage of the proceeds from the videos sold?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

... I would be very upset if the PH shot my animal other than to save a life. In fact if he shoots just to shoot it's his animal and I wouldn't pay for it.

Dr B

No, the PH should not be standing with his sights on the animal as the client shoots. No, the PH should not try to merge the report of his rifle with the client's first shot. No, the PH should not bump the client's elbow as he shoots (or drift his rear sight the night before in camp), in hopes of getting a gut shot buffalo to induce a charge on film ...

BTW, how is it that Mark Sullivan gets so many clients to gut shoot the buffalo? Maybe a percentage of the proceeds from the videos sold?

I don't believe MS has clients gut shoot animals, though he may hope they do! I also don't believe he does anything to his client's rifles!

He doesn't have to, because most of his clients book with him because of his videos, where he always uses double rifles, a lot of them go buy a double rifle two weeks before they go on the safari. This is a recipe for bad shooting. This is where MS gets all his film targets, IMO!

Most folks who have shot nothing but bolt rifles with scopes, generally shoot very poorly with irons sights, and especially iron sights on a double rifle. These same guys two years down the road, may shoot much better with their double rifles, and wouldn't furnish the fodder for MS's films.

If you will notice, he did none of his antics when he was guiding Allen Day! This is because Allen can shoot his rifles, and there is no need for a PH to shoot an animal that is already down for the count!

Allen will tell you, if asked, the learning curve to become proficient with a double rifles is long, and not worth the trouble over his current success to bother. However, if he did decide to use a double rifle, he would have it down pat before he went into the bush with it!

I know what a few of the TGT pros shoot:
George Hartley-450 Dakota
Ernst Scholz-460 Weatherby(McMillan)
Ian Bachelor-505 Gibbs(Sterling Davenport)
Doug McNeil uses both a double and a 450 Dakota I think

Will is very right about both the dangers of wounded and lost - both to the next poor client but also in terms of a satisfied client. Blood on the ground, the client pays even if the animal will recover. Even worse is when the animal may not recover - like a gut shot giraffe - and the client is leaving in the next day or so and who is going to follow it up?

When the "average" safari was 30 days or more, a couple of days spent looking for a wounded animal was a) a lession b) not critical to the over all conduct of the safari. With so many hunts being limited to 7 or even 5 days, there isn't that luxury.

Typically I tell the client I have no intention of backing him unless he asks, and generally my rifle stays slung so I can use my Bino's to watch (obviously at 20 yards in the jesse I am going to have the rifle in my hands and my eyesight is good enough to see the hit) but in the open.

Discuss it with your PH before the first animal goes down -everybody has different expectations. I had a client try and refuse to pay for a hunt because he didn't get his buff, even though he shot and wounded it. He firmly belived it was my job to have either backed him or found it! I learned, and make my possition clear. (The operator took my side and told me to leave him in camp whilst I drove home alone. If he had found the money by the time the re-supply truck arrived an hour later he could pay the driver and have a lift- it worked but not going to get a repeat booking out of that!)

As with most things African, it's a mistake to generalise. Some clients ask the PH to put in a back up shot if they think it's necessary, others ask that he shoot on report.... others ask that he not shoot at all. Then there are the aspects that may require the PH to shoot whether the client likes it or not. Don't forget that the PH has many responsibilities. Not only to the client, but also to the game laws, the game dept, the local villagers & his camp staff to name but a few.....For example, are you on the last day of the hunt/on the boundary of your hunting area/close to human habitation/is the client experienced or inexperienced on that particular species etc. Also, not all clients are perfect shots...... all these factors can affect whether the PH thinks it wise to shoot or not..... but a good PH will have discussed and explained all these factors before the hunt begins and may mention it further as the hunt progresses..... many will require the client to sign an indemnity that may or may not mention these factors.

Every hunt, every hunting area, every client and every PH is different and it's a big mistake to forget that....... The reason a PH has that job title must demand that he remember that he's a Professional Hunter..... with a capital P.

Hope I haven't hijacked the thread too much...

I just wanted to thank you for the incredible story Ganyana. I have never been to Africa, but you sure make me want to cross the pond after I get done with college. Once again Thank You.

Both Howard Hunter of HHK (the guy that was shot in the arm by his client during a buffalo charge) and Robin Voigt of Tanzania Gametracker Safaris use a .416. Richard Cooke in Zim uses a Blaser R93 in a .416.

Ganyana
I like your aproach to helping your hunter ie. leaving your rifle slung. I would much rather pay for a hunt and a trophy fee on a lost animal than have someone else put a bullet in my animal. I don't belive that I would blow the shot or lose the animal, but in the verey slim chance that I did I would have no problem, spending the rest of my safari looking him, and then paying trophy fee.

If a PH did put a bullet in my animal with the exception of saving a life, I would leave the tophy in africa, it would never hang on my wall, then I would do my best not to pay for the hunt, no tips, and many post about my experince.

Dr B

Dr. B,

quote:

If a PH did put a bullet in my animal with the exception of saving a life, I would leave the tophy in africa, it would never hang on my wall, then I would do my best not to pay for the hunt, no tips, and many post about my experince.

That is a bit extreme; and I doubt you would be so passionate about that statement if you had been on a DG safari before? With that philosophy, I doubt you would get many experienced PH's to book with - I mention epxerienced because a PH starting off will take any booking as he needs the experience...

Spring,
Robin Voigt uses a 458 win mag Ruger M77.

Dr B

Circumstances.... I have told this story before on this forum (I think) but as it illistrates the point so well, I'll tell it again.

A local PH (no names, no pack drill but he is known as Dim), has an awkward client on safari. The man is an excelent shot and takes the first few plainsgame animals cleanly, even though they were not easy shots. Anyway, as they get set up on a buff, he see's the PH getting ready to fire and whispers to him- "shoot my buff and I don't pay for this safari!" The turns and drops the buff cleanly with a neck shot. PH asks him to put a finisher in, but client refuses and dissmisses the request with "One shot is all I need or any animal!". Buff was dead so no trouble.

Few days later, they tiptoee up to ele in the jesse. Again, PH gets ready to back him, and agin come the prommise of not paying if the PH shoots his elephant. Ele hears the whispered conversation and wheels to face. Client makes a frontal brain shot and the ele collapses into a sitting possition.

Again PH, asks client to fire a finishing shot, but client points to the blod comming out of the trunk and insists that his shot was true and that one shot is all that is needed.

Client walks up to inspect his ele, and PH hangs his rifle on a convienient branch whilst getting ready to take some photo's with clients camera. PH's long time traqcker has PH's automatic SLR camera out to get some photo's for the album.

Client climbs onto the ele's head, pulls the ears forward over his legs and asks the PH to get a photo. Tracker took the first photo at this point... It was also the point when the elephant decided to stand up

The Ph dropped clients camera and grabbed for his rifle:- Client leapt to his feet and is now standing on the elephants head:- tracker froze with his finger on the button recording events at 3 snaps per second.

PH poured a stream of fire from his .404 into the ele from front on - not all well placed- good job client was standing up!, At least one bullet fouind the brain and the elephant collapsed sideways the client either being thrown or leaping clear.

Last phot tracker took was of a very mucky pair of underpants hanging on a thorn

I think the PH still blackmails the client every year by threatening to release the photo's to the public!

I do not like to back up clients. It is not my hunt or my animals... but- If I belive that we are in danger of leaving a wounded, dangerous animal behind to smack another hunter or villager (if we are hunting in tribal lands) it is my duty to throw some lead and try to recover the situation. Time is the usual cause- the hunt will finish before we find it- you have a plane ticket booked and I have another client comming in for a hunt in another area. The client is always right- except when he is wrong and especialy when there is dangerous game involved.

To quote Will- I try not to be dogmatic except when leaping to conclusions

Bwanamich
You are correct I have never been on a DG hunt, but I have hunted Noth america for 40 years, mostly buy myself since I was a Kid. I have also had my share of great guides and my share sorry ones.
I hire Guieds or PHs for several reasons,
1. Legal requirments
2. Logistics
3. Knowledge of a area.

I dont hire them to shoot my animals, and I will not take a trophy home that I did not kill.

I guess I'll just have to hunt with that rookie Pierre van Tonder since he does allow his client to kill their own game.


Dr B

We can certainly see a range of opinion in the last few entries to this thread. Is a very good reason to have that conversation with the PH before the event.

Personally, I would want the PH to act in such as way as to minimize the danger to all and use good judgement in doing so. Wounded game represent real danger to the hunting party and others.

DrB!

Don't let your ego get in the way of your growing up.

465H&H

It is nice if you can get to know your Ph at least a little before your hunt.

We all want a GREAT PH.
It is up to US to be a GREAT CLIENT.

I told both my PH's that when we SEE an animal it is not necessary to discuss trophy quality, if you thinkI need to shoot it, just tell me to shoot. I would hate for a good animal to get away while he is trying to convince me to shoot. All he has to say is "shoot that one".
I trust his judgement.

Also, I always want to kill my own animals,
I consider my self "pretty handy with the steel" if you know what I mean. However ANYONE can make a bad shot, the animal can move just as you fire the shot, your shot can be deflected by brush, or because of the rotation of the earth and the corolis effect along with a passing comet or meteor your steel solid could be pulled off course.

So I tell my PH's, if you think you need to shoot, SHOOT.
Do not worry about my "feelings".
Do what your instincts tell you to do.

Take a look at my friends Wayne Williamsons head.....

The only thing I insist on is that in the case of any followup I be up front and equal with the PH.
If he wants to get a few more guns to go wth us, that is ok, but I will be up front.

Dr B,
Don,t be so stubborn....
You wanna bet your house that even "rookie" PVT will not allow you to go after wounded buff (or wounded any DG for that matter) on your own and not participate in the shooting if the situation necessitates it? And should that happen, do you mean to say you will refuse to pay your trophy fees? I think Pierre better think twice if the answer is yes.... Immagine the scene with PVT in the back of the bakkie drinking a castle while you slide into the long grass to go get "your" wounded buff on your own - after all why should Pierre be with you if he ain`t gonna carry his gun

quote:

If a PH did put a bullet in my animal with the exception of saving a life, I would leave the tophy in africa, it would never hang on my wall, then I would do my best not to pay for the hunt, no tips, and many post about my experince.

Bwanamich I have stated twice for every one who is literate to read that I would not have a problem with the PH shooting if it was to save a Life!!!!!!!
This is a repeated theme on AR that people like you think and say what you want instead of what was posted. I guess I shouldn't confuse you with the facts!!
I think you have been drinking way to much Castle.

Dr B

Dr B,

Regardless of what one might think before hand, whether before the first DG hunt or before the fourteenth DG hunt, shit happens, and sometimes pretty fast.

If the PH has never hunted with a particular client how is the PH to know how the client is going to react in any given DG situation? Most PH's will let the client bury themselves as opposed to shooting the client's animal.

There are good PH's and bad PH's and good clients, and then guys like me, who knows everything about everything.

I think it shows a possible lack of experience if a client over reacts and refuses to pay for an animal that the PH happens to whack in the heat of a potentially dangerous situation.

One has to just play it by ear. Sometimes the PH isn't justified in shooting, but on the whole most PH's will do the right thing.

What in hell kind of handle is "Dr B" for crying out loud?

Is it a contraction of "Der Baby"

Priceless story by Ganyana.

Saeed
I have two questions for you.
1. How many Buffalo have you shot while hunting with Pierre van Tonder?

2. How many of these buffalo has Pierre put a bullet IN.

Dr B

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

quote:

If a PH did put a bullet in my animal with the exception of saving a life, I would leave the tophy in africa, it would never hang on my wall, then I would do my best not to pay for the hunt, no tips, and many post about my experince.

Bwanamich I have stated twice for every one who is literate to read that I would not have a problem with the PH shooting if it was to save a Life!!!!!!!
This is a repeated theme on AR that people like you think and say what you want instead of what was posted. I guess I shouldn't confuse you with the facts!!
I think you have been drinking way to much Castle.

Dr B

Dr B, you persist in missing the point.

Any wounded buff (and this goes for other wounded DG, too) is a threat to life. Even if it runs off directly away from you.

Where is it written that you will EVER see that animal again? No matter how much tracking and following up you may do, you may lose that animal.

But some other unsuspecting SOB may find him and end up dead because of your selfish and short-sighted imperative.

RIP
Your the man there is just no way I can match whits with some one like you.

Dr B

Dr B
At what point during a charge from a wounded DG animal do YOU perceive it as being life threatening and hence allow PVT to shoot your animal? And after the fact, if you did not perceive it to be life threatening, would you sit grumpy faced refusing to pay the trophy fee?

Your 2 qt`s to Saaed are meaningless in supporting your thesis.

Ganyana -- I think I hurt myself I laughed so hard from your story! Classic!

Gentlemen, I'll just make one prediction here, and that is, If Dr.B ever gets into a real close charge, with a nasty pissed off Buffalo, or lion, he'll be screaming like a three yr old, for someone to shoot that damn thing, before it gets on his butt! Maybe not! but I'd bet my next retirement check on it.

Dr B, some times the game simply dosen't follow the rules you set for them, and refuse to go down, till they have adminestered a little pay back.

This is fine if YOU are the one that gets the pay back,that was your choice, but most times it is someone else who has to go into the weeds, and sort them out, while the spoiled client sits in Camp, sulled up, because he didn't get his way! Even worse is, some poor local black walking home from fishing in the river, gets slammed to death because the buff was allowed to get into the bush, when an extra bullet or two would have prevented the whole thing! That, IMO, is selfish as hell, no other way to say it!

i havent hunted in Africa yet,but one who insists on on not letting the PH shoot if it is required is a fool, the ph can make the difference of letting you come home up standing or in a plastic bag after the elephant or buffalo has fun stamping you.

Dr.B

I have noticed that you have a particular way of responding to posters who only want to get you to understand what it is like to face DG on the ground in Africa. So let me try to explain somehting of my own experience in Africa as a one time buff hunter. Your "40 years" of hunting in North America mean nothing (beyond what I hope it taught you about setting up quickly to shoot)when you come to Africa. In fact, my experience in North America exceeds yours -and I looked at no less than three zebra in a mopane scrub that were no more than 50 yards away -and I didn't see them until the PH had me aim along his arm. I was ashamed -he told me that it was a case of knowing what to look for. It was an introduction to an alien hunting atmosphere. Believe me, it really is different in Africa - in almost every way. As an experienced hunter from North America you can fit into it - but be prepared to learn some new lessons!

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

quote:
If a PH did put a bullet in my animal with the exception of saving a life, I would leave the tophy in africa, it would never hang on my wall, then I would do my best not to pay for the hunt, no tips, and many post about my experince.

Again from Gerrys375 -
I have noticed that you have a particular way of responding to posters who only want to get you to understand what it is like to face DG on the ground in Africa. So let me try to explain somehting of my own experience in Africa as a one time buff hunter. Your "40 years" of hunting in North America mean nothing (beyond what I hope it taught you about setting up quickly to shoot)when you come to Africa. In fact, my experience in North America exceeds yours -and I looked at no less than three zebra in a mopane scrub that were no more than 50 yards away -and I didn't see them until the PH had me aim along his arm. I was ashamed -he told me that it was a case of knowing what to look for. It was an introduction to an alien hunting atmosphere. Believe me, it really is different in Africa - in almost every way. As an experienced hunter from North America you can fit into it - but be prepared to learn some new lessons!

I felt similarly on having the PH shoot as a backup - before I went buff hunting for the first time. I did not want him shooting unless life or death situation developed.

In my case - I shot a buff at 30 yds with a good frontal shot. The buff and his brother took off running right at us - not a charge- but right at us anyway, saw us and tried to veer. I fired a second shot at about 15 steps through the shoulders and lungs and he kept coming. I fired a third shot a fraction of a second after the PH shot. My third shot passed through the backstrap above the spine. The PH's shot went in 3" below the right eye and into the brain. Buff was dead in mid-step from the PH's shot. My first shots were killing shots but not "dead right there" shots. The last shots turned him and him looked like superman flying, then plowing the earth with his nose 7 paces from us. My first words were - "AHHHHHHHHHH". His were - " That buff was a bit too close for my taste".

The buff would likely have run for a bit, then died from my shots. However, due the proximity of the buff and his apparent good health at the time required the PH to shoot. I was glad that he did as I was empty and the buff was still moving.

A ph with me can shoot when his training tells him to shoot.....And I will thank him for doing so...

Dr B,
I respectfully suggest that you reserve your opinion until you have done a little DG hunting. I shared your opinion for awhile. Now I hunt with a PH with whom I have become good friends. We are both married with children. I have vacationed with him and his beautiful family. Both of us coming back to our loved ones is infinitely more important than who shot what, when.

Good hunting to you,
Brice

I've never hunted DG, except Brown Bear, but I've given the concept of PH shots some thought. It's not just about safety; mine, his, and others'. It's also about respect; respect for the game we're hunting.

I expect my PH to unleash a hail of well-spent lead if A) we're in serious danger (e.g., the beast is still staring at us from 15 yds after I put a good'un in the boiler room or B) the animal is poorly shot by me. No animal should have to suffer so I can claim it as 100% shot by me. That said, I'd likely not bring home the Buff I gut shot and my PH finished -- I'd have a European mount made for the PH. It's about respect.

quote:

No animal should have to suffer so I can claim it as 100% shot by me. That said, I'd likely not bring home the Buff I gut shot and my PH finished -- I'd have a European mount made

Yes! If the PH in all honesty assumes that your shot was bad, he owes it to you, him, his staff others in the vicinity and definately the animal to end it ASAP and humanely, this is the goal of ethical hunting.

I don't think PH's should just shoot as a matter of course, I have never met one who said he would (well, one in Zim and only on elephant) but if necessary, they should be obliged to, so should you, but if he has a clear shot, you shouldn't expect him to wait for you if your first shot on DG was a clear and obvious bugger up!

I would suggest that few PHs back their clients up unless the circumstances absolutely require it. If he does it's because YOU blew the shot and he is trying to stop something bad from happening. If you don't want him to shoot, don't blow your shot. If you screw up you have no right to bitch. Shit happens, if you are the cause of it happening, don't complain when he cleans it up, thank him.

I've only been on one hunt where the PH shot. My son shot a Lechewe, it ran behind a mound. As they were moving for a second shot the tracker grabbed the PHs sleeve and pointed. 100 yards away was the Kudu of my son's dreams. Glen said take the Kudu. My son shot, the Kudu dropped, the lechewe broke and ran. Glen put one into his rear breaking the pelvis and dropping the lechewe. My son then put a finisher into the Kudu went to the lechewe and finished off his double. Neither he, nor I, were upset. Glen prevented a long search for a wounded animal and guided my son to his first two trophies. We went on to take 11 more trophies without the gun coming off glen's shoulder.

TerryR

Shumba
"This dagga boy took a 400 grain TSX @ 2,425 fps to the chest at about 25 yards. He was facing us and I used a Ruger 416 Rigby.

At the shot, it looked like someone hit him in the chest with a sledgehammer. He quickly regained his composure and took about 3 steps directly towards us. I had just chambered a 2nd round and the PH fired his 458 Win Mag into the buff's chest (an inch or two higher than my shot). The buff dropped at his shot and stayed down.

After it was over, I asked the PH about my shot and he said it was good and that the buff would have probably went down within 100 yards. He then said, however, we were within 20 yards and the buff was headed our direction, so he decided to lend a hand."

This is a example of what I'm talking about Buff was hit solid client working his bolt for a second shot, buff is right their at 20 yds and the PH shoots. Taking a couple steps in your direction is not a charge and 20yde is to far for a PH to stop a charge.

Dr B

RIP
This is a link you really need to read the sooner the better.

Aricept

Dr B

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
Shumba
"This dagga boy took a 400 grain TSX @ 2,425 fps to the chest at about 25 yards. He was facing us and I used a Ruger 416 Rigby.

At the shot, it looked like someone hit him in the chest with a sledgehammer. He quickly regained his composure and took about 3 steps directly towards us. I had just chambered a 2nd round and the PH fired his 458 Win Mag into the buff's chest (an inch or two higher than my shot). The buff dropped at his shot and stayed down.

After it was over, I asked the PH about my shot and he said it was good and that the buff would have probably went down within 100 yards. He then said, however, we were within 20 yards and the buff was headed our direction, so he decided to lend a hand."

This is a example of what I'm talking about Buff was hit solid client working his bolt for a second shot, buff is right their at 20 yds and the PH shoots. Taking a couple steps in your direction is not a charge and 20yde is to far for a PH to stop a charge.

Dr B

Based on what you said above, I like your PH and would expect the same action on my behalf. Taking a couple of steps can well lead to a run/charge or dying gasp, but you do not know that until after the buff is down and dead. Hind sight is 20/20. The buff I encountered ran the 20 yards in my general direction very quickly - with one lung shot out and part of his heart damaged and blood running out his mouth and nose. A quick second shot through both lungs did not slow him. A brain shot by the PH finished him at 7 yards. I was stunned at how quickly the buff covered the distance...

A one shot kill is always desired especially if it leads to a "DRT" - dead right there situation. But buff do not drop in their tracks unless hit in spine or brain. If they can move, they are dangerous. Shoot until they are down... I am not picky who shoots if the buff is headed toward my favorite hunter which happens to be me...

Dr. B:

I see the crux of this argument as twofold - most of the others have mentioned the first and Matt hit on the second. First, any wounded dangerous game animal that makes it out of sight is a threat to life, and if the followup is not successful, not just yours. Failure to consider what will happen to the next poor sod to stumble across him is beyond callous. Second, but of primary importance to the most basic hunting ethic, is respect for the game. Once you've wounded the animal and he's on his feet and escaping, your PH or other hunting partners owe it to the animal to get it down and end it's suffering. Your ego takes a back seat to both points.

In regard to your comments about Shumba's buffalo, Dr. B, I might be able to see your point had the bull been at 50 yards. However, he was at 20 yards and that's way too close to be screwing around. When the PH sees a charge developing at such close range, as was the case here, he should shoot to prevent it from happening - that's his job, and his to duty is not just to you, but to his staff as well.

Your comments on this string indicate to me that you're not an ethical hunter. You need to stop hunting altogether until you can get your ego under control.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
RIP
This is a link you really need to read the sooner the better.

Aricept

Dr B

When in doubt, throw mud? Come on now, this was and is a sensible discussion....

I think on this subject, we have to not only put ourselves in the hunters shoes, but in the PH's. If I made a poor shot even on a zebra that was going to run two miles and take most of a day to find and have a suffering animal, the PH should anchor it. My ego is not so large that I'd rather brag about a gut shot that I finished the next day rather than have someone finish the job. To me it isn't any difference than having one of my partners wound a whitetail a couple hundred yards down the draw from me. If a crippled deer comes by me I'll put it on the ground and let the original shooter tag it, rather than give it an opportunity to escape. It shouldn't hurt anyones precious feelings either. I have hunted in Africa once, and the PH had to put a quick shot into a gemsbuck my 14 year old son broke a leg just below the ribcage. It stopped the animal and my son calmed down and flattened him on the next shot. I sure wouldn't have wanted to spend a whole day chasing it over 10000 acres so he could be proud and say no one else fired a shot at his game. Like in any other sport, if you make a bad shot, throw an interception, miss a free throw in the last seconds, you just have to forget the bad shot as quickly as possible and continue one. The PH as well, when hunting dangerous game is the one whose ass is on the line if he lets a buffalo or ele smash a client, so he doesn't deserve to have his hands tied. I have a feeling the same people who would not want to pay if the PH stopped a charge are the same ones who would want to sue the PH if someone was hurt during a hunt.