I've seen a couple of references to it, but has the number of hunters visiting SA really declined by 60%? That's a huge drop!

Any of our S. African members seen this?

I'm just curious.

After eleven years' absence, we are going in August.

I believe a good chunk of that drop comes from competition with Namibia.

I'd say the increase in hunting in Namibia certainly does have an impact. Prices seem better in Namibia as well and the properties are generally larger. The SAPS cluster**** I'm sure also has effected some hunters. I know after the problems I had a few years back with SAPS claiming my 4457's had expired has caused me to avoid RSA since then. This happened before any pronunciations from SAPS about their policy so myself and a friend spent hours at the SAPS counter trying to get our gun permits. The only thing that saved us was our PH who was meeting us at the airport. Since then I've been to Botswanna and Namibia on plains game hunts and their gun importation system was much easier and nobody tried to hit me up for bribes at either destination.

https://www.peterflack.co.za/hunting-statistics-2016/


Hunting Statistics 2016
8 March 2018 by
Peter Flack
in
Blog


“Human subtlety … will never devise an invention more beautiful, more simple, or more direct than does Nature, because in her inventions nothing is lacking, and nothing is superfluous” – Leonardo da Vinci (1452 – 1519)

Hunting Statistics 2016

I have come in for a lot of criticism over the years, predominantly from vested interests, for linking the drastic decline in overseas hunters visiting South Africa – from 16 394 in 2008 to 6 539 in 2016 (a drop of 60% in nine years) – to the canned killing epidemic and the intensive breeding, domestication and/or genetic manipulation of wildlife to produce animals with exaggerated horn lengths and unnatural colour variations, which have coincided with this period and done so much damage to hunting and, ipso facto, conservation in this country.

Admittedly, a lot of the criticism can be written off as of the, “Well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?” kind of thing, ala the comments of Mandy Rice Davies when the English politicians involved with the call girl, Christine Keeler, denied any such involvement and I took the nasty remarks by certain canned killers and intensive breeders with the bucket of salt they deserved, although one did resort to violence and shoulder charged me into a wire enclosure at OR Tambo Airport cutting my hand. I was invited to press charges against the buffoon by airport staff but declined as, when you fight with pigs, the pigs enjoy it and all you do is end up dirty.

Other comments were more difficult to understand, including statements by Mr. Stephen Palos, CEO of the Confederation of Hunting Associations of South Africa, an amateur hunting body representing nearly 30 such organisations. Mr. Palos made the following statements back in 2015 and has continued to advocate them in his current position as CEO of this important hunting body. For example:

“I cannot join that man’s hypocrisy by simply condemning the breeding of lion to be hunted …” Although there is little or no hunting involved in the killing of most of these animals, the vast majority of which are domesticated beasts.

“What I know in my gut, and this experience proves, is that there ALREADY IS INDEED a demand for the hunting of colour variants, which will grow further as prices asked for them drop to meet prices more hunters will pay. Obviously as more of a certain variant are created, their value will drop taking them towards the point that hunting becomes an option. Once quantity/price factors make hunting viable, demand will start to stabilise the falling price. This is already the case with the likes of black or white springbuck. I do not think any investor in these animals thinks otherwise right now, and given the proven business acumen & sheer wealth of many of these investors, I think it’s an insult to say that they are falling fowl (sic) of a deliberate Ponzi scheme or even worse, creating one.”

And yet this is precisely what has happened. Because there has been little or no hunting demand for these unnatural animals – in fact the reverse as most hunters abhor this cynical practice – the prices for them have dropped like the proverbial stone. So much so that I have been reliably informed of one intensive breeder with a herd of some hundred ‘golden wildebeest’ who offered them free of charge to a well known professional hunter with a request that any profit the PH made from them be shared with the breeder. In another case I am aware of, black impala, previously sold for million of rands per animal, are now being offered for R5 000.00 ($420.00) each. If this is not the same as happened when the tulip bubble burst in the Netherlands, then I do not know what is.

“Breeding or managing animals to enhance trophy size is now commonplace. Selective stud animals, feed hoped to contain essential elements for horn growth and now even devices placed over juvenile animal’s horns to protect them from wear! For the answer to this I must call on the Serenity Prayer which says:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference.

There is no doubt that this practice will not be changed. It is here to stay. There are simply too many ranchers, too many ranches and too many animals for this to be police-able. To argue it would generate only heat, not light. But there may be consequences, and actions to take. The biggest tragedy of this practice is that it renders hundreds of years of history irrelevant as the record books stand to be inundated with new fantastic animals bred exactly for the purpose of making the book.”

No, the biggest tragedy is that more and more of the thousands of overseas hunters who, in 2016, paid on average R215 000 each for daily rates and trophy fees alone, will decided to hunt elsewhere and predominantly in our Namibian neighbour. If you take the average loss of overseas hunters over this period since 2008 at 7 000 per annum, a very conservative figure, then the losses to this country over the nine years since 2008 amounts to R13,5 billion in 2016 rands and, if you add to this monies also spent on airfares, accommodation, car hire, taxidermy, gratuities, gifts, tourist travel both before and after the hunt and so on, you can probably double this figure. Simply put, the country cannot afford to lose this massive amount of foreign exchange in order to satisfy the whims of a few selfish and cynical businessmen who do not give a damn about hunting or conservation but only their bank balances.

Talking about criticism of these practices, he said, “To my mind these attacks by hunters on hunters or other sections of the wildlife industry do far more harm by lambasting each other in our own hunting media, exposing huge discord and disconnect between ourselves, than what harm stems from any of the actual specific practices themselves”.

How disingenuous can you be? How out of touch with the reality of the damage done and being done to hunting and conservation must you be to equate criticism with the catastrophic results of canned killing and intensive breeding! How many overseas hunters must this country be reduced to before the damage done by these practices is seen as more serious than the mere criticism of it?

Hunting Statistics 2016

While I agree that washing dirty linen in public should not be a first choice, there is no alternative when hunting and the conservation on which it depends is being destroyed, along with the livelihoods and jobs of those in game ranching and the secondary businesses which depend on it in the predominantly rural areas where these occur. Especially if there is no benefit to conservation, wildlife and wildlife habitats from these disgusting practices. Especially if those that have benefit from these ugly businesses are so few and benefit no-one and nothing other than themselves.

I have just received the South African hunting statistics for the 2016 calendar year provided by the Department of Environmental Affairs (DEA). As any businessman worth his salt will tell you, it is better to have information that is 90% correct soon, than information which is 100% correct too late. Not that I am saying the information provided by government in this connection is 100% correct. I have no way of knowing but I can certainly say that information provided nearly a year after 2016 has ended is history and not useful information.

The most important facts indicated by the belated statistics are the following:

The continued deterioration in numbers of overseas hunters visiting South African. In 2016 these numbers fell from 7 633 to 6539, a further drop of 1 094 hunters or 14%, from those in 2015.
Although revenue increased by 11%, I think this can largely be ascribed to the drop in the rand against the US dollar brought about by the disastrous machinations of Zuma and his government.
In round figures, revenue derived from daily rates and trophy fees paid by these hunters amounted to R1,4 billion in 2016 versus R1,27 billion in 2015. The real reason behind the increase is the spend per hunter, which increased by a whopping 29%, from roughly R166 000 to R215 000 per hunting trip. Personally, I find this increase hard to credit but that is what the statistics show.
On the other hand, these hunters shot slightly fewer animals – 27 241 as opposed to 27 298 the year before and, looking at the breakdown of the top ten animals by number, there were no surprises with impala, warthog and kudu leading the list.
Limpopo Province earned the most, namely, R600 million – up from R480 million a year previously – or 25%.
North West Province, the kings of canned lion killing, earned R90 million from the 291 lions shot there at an average price of US$21 200. Having said that, there has been a dramatic reduction in the number of canned lions killed from 622 in 2015 to 355 in 2016 – a fall of 43% – although the drop in revenue has not been as severe as these figures might imply and overall earnings from this disgusting activity fell a mere R12 million from R122 million to R110 million in round numbers. If you know anyone who claims to have shot a free range lion from this region, in all likelihood he/she has participated knowingly in a canned killing and, if they have, they should be held to account for their anti-hunting conduct by the hunting bodies to which they belong.
Interestingly, at the same time as canned lion killings dropped, so too did the number of American hunters visiting South Africa in 2016. Numbers fell by 15% to a still significant 3079 in number, although it is the lowest number in ten years. Even so, North American hunters made up 61% of the total of overseas hunters with European hunters a distant second at 32%.
What with both Dallas Safari Club and SCI both coming out this year with statements condemning the canned lion and captive bred lion killing sickness, you can only hope that this activity will go the same way as the intensive breeding of unnatural colour variants – wither on the vine and disappear.

There is much anecdotal evidence to support the negative effects of canned killing and intensive breeding and the concomitant loss of overseas hunters. A game rancher wrote to me recently about the large drop in the prices offered for the purchase of live game this year. An outfitter called me this morning to tell me of a successful game ranching friend in the Dundee area who specializes in kudu hunts and who is battling to sell them because he has been undercut by recently discounted hunts for these game animals in Limpopo Province. I spoke to a second major outfitter who told me of a client who warned him that, if he shot an animal with a tag in its ear, he would never hunt with him again. And of another client who was going to bring a friend on a hunt but the friend declined because he did not want to go “on and old man’s hunt” because he assumed South African hunts were essentially for domesticated animals in a small paddocks, which guaranteed the end result. A highly experienced, well regarded South African outfitter and PH, who has recently returned from the annual hunting conventions in the USA, said it had become all but impossible to sell South African hunts.

Probably the biggest negative flowing from these developments, apart from the job losses in rural areas, is the fate of the new black game ranchers who will now find it difficult, if not impossible, to make a go of things in the current climate. To compound this problem is the demise of the independent professional hunter who, in the past, could have been relied upon to partner black game ranchers to help them market their operations both locally and abroad and the absence of whom further exacerbates an already dire situation.

I was also called recently by a well known and popular taxidermist to compliment me on predicting the current hunting trends, the effects of which he can see first hand in his business. He asked whether there was anything that could be done to reverse the current situation as he was aware of a number of game ranches reverting to domestic livestock, as evidenced by the large amounts of game meat on the market – shot to make way for the re-introduction of cattle.

This, of course, raises a further issue. How much cheap and healthy protein is being lost? Using the average loss of 7 000 overseas hunters per year since 2008, and assuming each hunter shot a conservative five animals per trip providing 30 kgs of meat per animal, this equates to a loss of 1 050 000 kgs of meat per annum. What will need to be done to replace it, especially from those game ranches in the arid or semi-arid regions which cannot be used to raise domestic livestock? How much land will need to be set aside to make up for the loss of this kind of healthy protein?

Let me say at the outset that it gives me no pleasure whatsoever to have predicted – along with a number of others – the consequences of canned lion killing and intensive breeding for South Africa. The answer to the taxidermist’s question, however, is that of course the dreadful current trend can be reversed. It will take the same things that gave rise to the hugely successful, quiet South African conservation revolution in the first place, which began some 60 years ago. In other words, a partnership between government, the private sector and amateur and professional hunting bodies. There is also the highly successful Namibian example to follow where government, hunting bodies (both amateur and professional) and game ranchers have combined both to protect hunting from canned killing practices and intensive breeding, on the one hand, and to actively promote hunting, locally and internationally, on the other hand.

But much more needs to be done and, although the Namibian model provides guidance, South Africa needs to embark on its own well thought out, three year, program, coupled with a public relations strategy, to re-introduce the romance of African safaris into South Africa, coupled with the rating of game ranches and professional hunters according to the standard of fair chase hunting offered by them. I believe we also need to move away from luxury, bushveld, glass and chrome mini-palaces filled with contemporary art and return to good, old fashioned, South African hospitality in our farm/ranch houses, to tented camps, bucket showers, dinner in the boma and coffee around the camp fire. We need to go back to our roots, to the things that made South Africa the hunting destination of choice on the African continent, that provided opportunities for all for over 60 years and which funded the wonderfully successful conservation revolution which swept the country.

In these days of political renewal and hope in South Africa, is it too much to hope that hunting and conservation will also have their Augean stables washed clean even if the President has also indulged in intensive breeding?

Kathi, Thank you for posting this.

Personally, I think Mr. Flack is missing part of the point.

Most hunters want a wild experience. While you can make of a hunt what you wish, South Africa has been linked (wrongly in many cases) to an artificial experience of a deluxe luxury lodge where you go out and shoot your game from a zoo like collection in a bakkie.

Couple that with the crime and graft at Johannesburg where the folks at the airport are so negative that it makes you wonder why you are there.

My experience with South Africa has been mostly positive, but it showed me enough that without the concierge service offered by the travel agent (Gracy) I was using, it would have been rather unpleasant. Choosing to stay at an airport hotel to avoid hassles speaks volumes.

Zambia is booked solid and for example some concessions have sold Lion two years in advance.

Swings and roundabouts.

What I would be curious to know is if Namibia is seeing a rise in hunters during the same time period.

There are criticisms of South Africa but I bet that's where most of us started in Africa.

I couldn't make it through that long post but I very strongly feel that CBL hunts have NOTHING to do with the decrease in hunter numbers to RSA.

It's down to two things: 1) the really annoying process for bringing firearms into the country (and leaving with them) and 2) wanting a wilder experience. I'd say that 75% is down to 1 and 25% down to 2.

I really don't understand why hunter operators and hotel operators aren't putting massive and constant pressure on SAPS to make it easier to enter the country with firearms.

If you can find accurate numbers on bowhunters the effect of #1 (Difficulty importing firearms) should be fairly obvious.

What Flack never seems to realize is that hardly any animals would be available for hunting, or otherwise, if it was not for breeding on farms!

This to equates to that old saying "cutting your nose to spite your face"!

How many wild rhinos are available in the wild in other countries, for example?

How many are available in South Africa, just because someone has spent millions breeding them?

Problems with the decline in hunters going to South Africa can be squarely blamed on their firearms import system, and security.

I know several people here who used to go to South Africa, and have given up and now all are going to Namibia.

I too would be curious to know if SAPS is the real reason. Even if you are going to other countries
flying from the United States usually means transiting through JNB with an overnight stay and that means dealing with SAPS.

I just hope that there isn't a general decline of hunters going to southern Africa overall.

quote:

Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I too would be curious to know if SAPS is the real reason. Even if you are going to other countries
flying from the United States usually means transiting through JNB with an overnight stay and that means dealing with SAPS.

I just hope that there isn't a general decline of hunters going to southern Africa overall.

South Africa has been gradually making it more difficult to fly to or through the country with firearms.

Even if they are sent ahead.

Years ago we used to send our rifles ahead to Zimbabwe.

Made more sense, and it worked.

We did that for several years, passing through South Africa without any hassle.

Then one year they decided that any firearm flying through the country in transit has to have a permit.

Our rifles got stuck in Joberg, and some kind soul from Emirates paid all the fees and got them through.

Friends who used to hunt there every year, taking their own guns, were being hassled by officials every now and then, for apparently no reason but to get a bribe.

They decided that was enough, and now they are all going to Namibia, where they tell me they are very happy.

Hunters are being used as an endless cash cow.

Officials in those countries never stop to think how much hunters spend in their country, and should appreciate that and make life a bit easier for them.

Then you get people like Flack, who does not like one form of hunting, and puts all the blame on it!

I've dealt with SAPS before and it isn't enjoyable. While not strictly necessary I always use a service, it gives me a little piece of mind.

My point is if it is because of SAPS then maybe the permit process could be changed.

If SAPS isn't the main issue then PHASA needs to look at why hunters are choosing Namibia as a destination.

If these two issues are identified and addressed it could benefit foreign hunters.

If fewer foreign hunters are coming in general that's a bad thing!

Personally this year I get to deal with SAPS and pay Botswana $150 a gun plus ammo tax!

Written by well-known conservationist, Peter Flack, this will give a better understanding of the hunting situation in South Africa.

https://www.peterflack.co.za/h...-f65e3ffbc3-57988413

Thanks Kevin!

This article is posted above by Kathi.

I know but I appreciate Kevin's efforts.

Hunter numbers in South Africa are definitely down.

Although speaking to my outfitter friends from all over Africa , hunting numbers in most African countries seem to be way down. Its a sad situation. I have been contacted by numerous outfitters from Zambia , Zimbabwe , Namibia and Tanzania offering quota to sell on that they cannot sell.

Outfitters are in for a rough ride. Time to help each other , not rival in each others demise.

Peter Flack's article is about 50% BS.
(1) Problem number one was the US economy for the past 8 years of Obama.
(2) Folks can read about the constant "tips" that are paid in RSA.
(3) Folks can read about the farm murders & robberies occurring, including on hunting farm.
(4) Direct flight to Namibia and Zimbabwe, bypassing JNB.
(5) Namibia making themselves hunter friendly.

quote:

Originally posted by rxgremlin:
I too would be curious to know if SAPS is the real reason. Even if you are going to other countries
flying from the United States usually means transiting through JNB with an overnight stay and that means dealing with SAPS.

I just hope that there isn't a general decline of hunters going to southern Africa overall.

I have had for more headache with CB&P arriving back in the US than I have had with SAPS in my 3 trips to or through SA.

That's fine Adam, but one happy hunter doesn't make up for the many, many more that are fed up with SAPS crap.

It never takes more than almost a couple of minutes to go through the firearm customs into Tanzania.

The import permit is presented, they check the serial number, and you are on your way.

Why can’t South Africa do the same?

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
That's fine Adam, but one happy hunter doesn't make up for the many, many more that are fed up with SAPS crap.

Nor did I say it did Post Oak. Was echoing RXgremlin post in asking if SAPS was the real reason for the decline in hunters to SA. My experience says no. YYMV.
I tend to think the downturn of the economy in 2008-2016 is probably the reason for the decline. I know it certainly had an impact on my hunting trips.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It never takes more than almost a couple of minutes to go through the firearm customs into Tanzania.

The import permit is presented, they check the serial number, and you are on your way.

Why can’t South Africa do the same?

That's the way it is in Namibia also, the hardest thing is that no one tells you to go to the little police office in the baggage claim area to pickup your gun.

Providing they're accurate - there's no arguing with numbers.

My personal numbers don't support the ones in Mr Flack's article but my numbers are just a drop in the Ocean so I won't dispute those quoted by Peter Flack. Thankfully; I've experienced a growth in business over the same period - but then again I do not partake in canned hunting and I have a loyal customer base.

I would like to get a better understanding of what the firearms issue is as this was mentioned several times in some of the posts above.

What exactly is the problem?

SA Law dictates that a temporary firearm import/export permit must be acquired in order to bring your firearms into the country and take them back out again. The process involves filling out a form, adding some supporting documentation that includes proof of ownership, an invitational letter and copies of your passport and plane ticket. Save for the "proof of ownership" and "invitational letter" part, the rest of the documentation is all stuff you're going to need to travel anyway... So how difficult to make copies of it?

The required documentation can be submitted through a third party ahead of time (at a fee) or it can be submitted upon arrival at JNB (free of charge). Provided the form was completed correctly and all the supporting documentation is there - no questions are asked and the permit is issued.

Technically speaking there is no difference between these procedures and those for Botswana - save that for Botswana permits HAVE to be arranged ahead of time and requires similar documentation to be provided.

The only "inconvenience" associated to getting firearms into and out of South Africa apart from submitting the correct documentation is that sometimes - especially in mid hunting season - it can get busy in the firearms office and there can be delays. And the only instances where I experienced extraordinarily long delays was when clients (not mine) did not have the correct supporting documentation on hand.

What are the issues you've experienced at the Firearms Office?

Jeeze, Chris Trotskie -- where to start?

How about the 14 page form (or whatever it is) most of which doesn't apply? Or for that matter, having to get a temporary import/export license!

Then there is the misinterpretation of what the form 4457 means and the inconvenience of having to go get a new one each year.

The illogicallity of having to have to have notarized things like passports and other supporting documentation. This doesn't even make any sense as the notarizing doesn't prove anything. (The notaries are always confused as to why we are having to have this done.)

There is the way everyone who doesn't use a service is pushed to the back of the line. The fact that there is a line at all!

The requests for bribes.

I am sure I am forgetting something.

Frankly, entering the country with a firearm should be as simple as entering the country with a tennis racket.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
Jeeze, Chris Trotskie -- where to start?

How about the 14 page form (or whatever it is) most of which doesn't apply? Or for that matter, having to get a temporary import/export license!

Then there is the misinterpretation of what the form 4457 means and the inconvenience of having to go get a new one each year.

The illogicallity of having to have to have notarized things like passports and other supporting documentation. This doesn't even make any sense as the notarizing doesn't prove anything. (The notaries are always confused as to why we are having to have this done.)

There is the way everyone who doesn't use a service is pushed to the back of the line. The fact that there is a line at all!

The requests for bribes.

I am sure I am forgetting something.

Frankly, entering the country with a firearm should be as simple as entering the country with a tennis racket.

Bingo!

Even Zimbabwe is a model of efficiency compared to the RSA. Think about that one for a minute. Some of the requirements are just downright stupid and serve no purpose. For example, the 4457 fiasco. The last time I went to register a gun here in Orlando, they had nothing other than old forms. In other words, the local US customs office locally didn't even have the forms that would make the RSA officials happy. All of this effort for guns that have probably been through the RSA 15 or more times. Why? What purpose was served?

Bribes? It seems like every single official in a uniform openly asks for one. They don't even attempt to hide it.

How about safety? Read the news. The farm murders. Politicians openly talking about killing whites. One of the highest murder rates in the world.

Nope, no problems at all.

quote:

Frankly, entering the country with a firearm should be as simple as entering the country with a tennis racket.

Agreed and my Canadian outfitter says that bringing in a long gun is painless. So , it will be bears in Canada this June rather than Africa (the airline time is much less also).

Pheasants today, wild turkey and hogs later this month, then bears, then fall birds and mule deer, exotics, etc ad infinitum.

I absolutely hate bringing in guns to South Africa. It is like going to the dentists. Got this dread in the back of your mind.
Namibia is no problem. Also the bribe mentality stuff in the South African airport just about drives me to hard liquor. In the morning.

This was both predictable and predicted by those in the know !

During the late 80's when game farming took off in a big way industry leaders and academics ( Specifically those who studied the game industry at the Chair for Wildlife economics at the University of Potchefstroom ) predicted that this day would come.

Whilst the model was / is very good for conservation the economic foundations of the industry was not sound and in particular the neglecting to cater to the demand profile of those who would be end users of the product presented.

The devil is in the details.

From a game farming perspective the over riding factor is property size and trophy bearing potential of a herd.

There is a finite number of trophy class animals that a herd can potentially produce. Sometimes also time dependent ( years in some instance)

There were symposia and studies presented looking at this in particular.

In addition to this then also the notion of the high fence hunt. How big must a property be to give a hunter the feeling he/she is not hunting in a pen ?

Industry leaders and those studying it warned of a saturation point that would be reached and that the local meat hunting hunter should also or rather be catered for.

Some within the professional hunting industry held the same view and predicted that if the model is not changed that numbers would decline and that there would be a possible collapse of the industry as a whole.

POSTED ON FACEBOOK BY A SOUTH AFRICAN IN THE LAST HOUR:

GOD HELP SOUTH AFRICA
JUST IN..........
Corby Hill Estate And Donalds Saints Farm in the ESHOWE AREA is UNDER ATTACK ...
A mob have burnt the farm houses.....workshops.... tractors ...farming equipment and have torched thousands of hectares of the sugar cane crops in Eshowe.....
Apparently one farm is completely burnt down and the other is alight as well. It's been said that the vicitms are battling to get services to respond.
There is a desperate plea for help from Saps .
This is a developing story and I will try to update as soon as I can
Please note TST MEMBERS have NOT responded and as such the info we are relaying are from 3rd parties on the scene.
This is a very worrying situation with serious undertones for the rest of our country.

Last time we went to South Africa - photo safari, not hunting.

I had a camera case with cameras in it.

At the check in Emirates informed me this bag will be delivered by an Emirates personnel where we collect our luggage, to avoid them being stolen in Johannesburg airport!!

I know a number of people who have had items stolen from their bags at Johannesburg airport.

So frankly, unless they get their act together, and make life easier for visitors, there are many other countries who do welcome visitors.

And from what we see as the above report, South Africa is not on my list countries to visit anytime soon.

Very sad indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
POSTED ON FACEBOOK BY A SOUTH AFRICAN IN THE LAST HOUR:

GOD HELP SOUTH AFRICA
JUST IN..........
Corby Hill Estate And Donalds Saints Farm in the ESHOWE AREA is UNDER ATTACK ...
A mob have burnt the farm houses.....workshops.... tractors ...farming equipment and have torched thousands of hectares of the sugar cane crops in Eshowe.....
Apparently one farm is completely burnt down and the other is alight as well. It's been said that the vicitms are battling to get services to respond.
There is a desperate plea for help from Saps .
This is a developing story and I will try to update as soon as I can
Please note TST MEMBERS have NOT responded and as such the info we are relaying are from 3rd parties on the scene.
This is a very worrying situation with serious undertones for the rest of our country.

Wow this is bad news. My thoughts are with our friends in South Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
Jeeze, Chris Trotskie -- where to start?

How about the 14 page form (or whatever it is) most of which doesn't apply? Or for that matter, having to get a temporary import/export license!

Then there is the misinterpretation of what the form 4457 means and the inconvenience of having to go get a new one each year.

The illogicallity of having to have to have notarized things like passports and other supporting documentation. This doesn't even make any sense as the notarizing doesn't prove anything. (The notaries are always confused as to why we are having to have this done.)

There is the way everyone who doesn't use a service is pushed to the back of the line. The fact that there is a line at all!

The requests for bribes.

I am sure I am forgetting something.

Frankly, entering the country with a firearm should be as simple as entering the country with a tennis racket.

Exactly! I'm flying Emirates to Harare this year in order to avoid all this crap.

South Africa may be going down the tubes.......but I have more trouble with the CBP turds in Atlanta than I do with SAPS in South Africa......and the CBP does it intentionally......

.

I would only want to hunt in tents if I ever went to Africa with totally wild animals.My taxidermist use to go and shoot all these antelope he was going three times a year .I was like dang it must be easy to hunt over there .I asked him if he was going to hunt bongo he said no way it was not a sure thing for all the money it cost .He kept on bringing back huge antelope then he finally showed me pictures of them feeding them by hand on the place they hunted .I knew then it was not real hunting .I read about the old days 1860 to 1940 when Africa was all wild that's the kinda hunt I want in Africa .It's the memory of the hunt not who has the most money to shoot the biggest animal that makes it hunting .Those canned hunts to fill walls do nothing for the sport of hunting either .I.learned pretty quick in Alaska you don't always get something when you go hunting in the great outdoors but you learn more each time .The general public hates those canned hunts too and it hurts the heck.out of hunting .I think of wild Africa when I think of going there and I know it's disappearing fast with the increasing population there .Africa only had 28 percent wilderness left and North America has 38 percent .I.know a few outfiters in Africa returning to the old tent safari hunts .I hope they keep increasing and try to stay in What is left of wild Africa Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't hunt canned hunts neither would I no adventure to them !

dgr416:

Hunting in Tanzania is a totally wild affair, from tented camps to the game you intend shooting; there are no fences, no breeding programs to sustain any form of put and take, no hand-fed, petted animals to be shot on an "expiry date" as a commodity on the shelf.

Tanzania, like any other hunting venue (wild) is not what it was 50+ years ago.

dgr416 - you have a distorted view of what hunting in a place like RSA is like. Very little is "canned" and even using that term is aiding the anti-hunters.