quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
South Africa may be going down the tubes.......but I have more trouble with the CBP turds in Atlanta than I do with SAPS in South Africa......and the CBP does it intentionally......

.

I have to agree here, we had more trouble from the CBP when trying to get our 4457 than we did passing through Johannesburg or Harare. Infact I found the officials in Johannesburg and Harare
downright nice.
I went to the airport to get the 4457 after making an appointment where I was told if I held them up I would have to "pay their overtime". Had to be there 3 hours before they closed due to their "slow computers". Once there I was nothing short of interrogated by the younger CBP officer as to why I felt the need to hunt in Africa and how much did I travel out of the country this went on for almost 15 min. I kept waiting for the older CBP officer to tell the young guy to knock it off, but nope never happened. Get to Johannesburg and once in our hotel room I notice that the TSA lock has been removed from my bag. Nothing missing, just wish they would have put it back on.
Atlanta for us was a breeze, they even let me keep the water bottle I had filled with some dirt from Zimbabwe for a keepsake.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
dgr416:

Hunting in Tanzania is a totally wild affair, from tented camps to the game you intend shooting; there are no fences, no breeding programs to sustain any form of put and take, no hand-fed, petted animals to be shot on an "expiry date" as a commodity on the shelf.

Tanzania, like any other hunting venue (wild) is not what it was 50+ years ago.

Now we can chuck a handful of ice in that Gin & Tonic.

The whole idea of demanding to see an ownership certificate for your guns is so stupid anyway.

Let's see...

1) on my first trip thru RSA, I left my room at the Airport (Hilton or Holiday Inn?) for all of 30 minutes and some traveler's were stolen.

2) On my second trip, thru RSA I was subjected to bribes during the SAPS gun permitting process

3) On my third trip through RSA, more bribes with SAPS and never got my trophies because the PH and the landowner had a subsequent business dispute and my trophies were held as leverage by the land owner.

Now maybe this was all just bad luck...but I hear enough stories like this that I have no desire to go thru RSA again.

I also doubt there is an ability for RSA to fix there issues.

What is so funny is that a 4457 is not an ownership certificate. It is merely evidence that the document was in the US as of the date of the 4457.

We only have one experience with SA and it was pleasant for the most part. We did a LOT of research prior to booking South Africa. We talked at length with numerous people (whose opinions we trust and respect) from South Africa as well as the US and UK before making a decision. I will go over the key points that are often debated on South Africa.

1. JNB is a $hit show when it comes to safety and that is probably what keeps most away. Africa Sky had a security breach earlier in the morning the day we arrived. We stayed alert our entire stay and all else was uneventful and very pleasant. However, the threat is real. I lived Roger's Standing Orders and "Don't never take a chance you don't have to" is one I still apply. We have to put it into reality as well or we will never get out of bed in the morning. The day we booked our South Africa hunt someone shot up our home airport. Last month our beautiful, peaceful community had a school shot up by a lunatic. Life is a risk and me must remain ever vigilant. Regardless of your views on the security situation in South Africa, it is real, receives a lot of publicity and is a HUGE detractor for people to travel there. Global security challenges and threats have a lot of people staying close to home.

This is a huge factor in the decline.


2. Gun entry? Africa Sky handled it and my flight got changed by Emirates (weather) coming and going. No problems with entry or exit (thank you Africa Sky and Gilbert). I look at paying an "expedite" service no different than "global entry" and "TSA pre-check". Convenience costs. In most places on the planet, if you want a government worker/organization to do their job you have to "bribe" them. I agree with several here. Our own CBP is packed with incompetent a$$ clowns.
This is a factor in the decline.

3. High fence, low fence, no fence, sitting on the fence. Great topic to debate. Any area can be fenced (or not) and provide a hunt or a mere killing field. Two entirely different presentations. Reality: South Africa has a bad reputation for providing a lot of killing fields. Obviously there is a market for these or they would not exist. Before we all line up and light our torches to burn down this topic, do a quick google search for exotic hunts in the USA. When we first wanted to hunt exotics in Texas, we drove away from several ranches without taking our rifles out of the truck. In the end, let your own ethics be your guide and the law and/or market will decide if it continues to survive. Do your research and get what you want. They offer good hunting areas as well as good killing areas.
I think this is a limited factor.

4. Put and take hunting and biologically manipulated animals? I have no desire to participate in those types of hunts/kills but many do. I am not going to condemn or judge South Africa without condemning and judging our own "Super Buck/Stag/Elk hunts" here in the US. Not sure how DSC can condemn captured lion killing in one breath and then condone "hunting" Old #7, the new SCI/B&C/ABC/LMNOP/NAACP/ESPN record buck/stag/elk. Sounds kind of hypocritical doesn't it? Just my observation and opinion. Again, do your research and do what your conscience allows.
I think this is a limited factor.

5. The "non-wild Africa" experience? That is a personal choice. I spent over 20 years getting wild experiences and don't really need anymore. I will crawl in the mud and gladly do what is needed during the hunt and stalk but I want a hot shower, hot meal, whisky or G&T and a bed awaiting at the end of it all.
I think this is a limited factor.

6. Reality check. A South Africa or Namibia plains game hunt is the best deal going in hunting. You can have a hell of a hunt for the same money it would take to "hunt" one of Old #7's runt offspring. However, how much plains game do most of us want to shoot? Many of of us want to try different areas and experiences. After that is over, many of us will return to those places and people we loved most.
I think this is almost as big a factor as #1.

Just some of my opinions and thoughts. We enjoyed South Africa and really want to return. However, #6 is keeping us from booking now (got to see more of Africa) and #1 will may prevent us from doing so in the future.

Safe travels and let's all pray for and support our South African friends.

Larry

Alibi to my last post:

Reputation: South Africa has a bad reputation for many of the things presented by other posters. It almost prevented us from going and enjoying a wonderful trip. This is a HUGE detractor for people to hunt South Africa.

Clean up you act and throw the bad PH/Outfitters/Taxidermists etc. under the bus. Black list them on the international hunting community. That can be started now.

Safe travels.............LL

I wonder if we are not missing a key factor surrendering the operation of the air terminal in J-Burg. One should not forget the fact that the Regs of the terminal operation have been created by the SA government.

It is very clear that the SA government in anti-white and it's stated goals are to reduce white influence in all aspects of the country.

One only has to have a candid discussion with a white SA to learn the true racial divisions within the country. Any country that enacts a law that prohibits the publication of the number of police officers killed on duty in a year is clearly corrupt.

Discuss the methods that whites use to protect themselves in SA will demonstrate the true nature of SA society. The colored are in control and they will use all methods to suppress white influence.

The over riding goal of the government is to suppress whites and the REG's at the airport is just a minor matter. Readers of this bulletin board think this airport issue is a big deal but in reality it is small potatoes in SA because it only affects white foreigners and the goal of the government is to suppress whites and line the pockets of SA politicians.

One only has to study the history of black African governments to see a clear trend of the future of SA.

If the above remarks don't set off the "political correct" readers, nothing will!

SFRanger, Thanks for the good posts.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
POSTED ON FACEBOOK BY A SOUTH AFRICAN IN THE LAST HOUR:

GOD HELP SOUTH AFRICA
JUST IN..........
Corby Hill Estate And Donalds Saints Farm in the ESHOWE AREA is UNDER ATTACK ...
A mob have burnt the farm houses.....workshops.... tractors ...farming equipment and have torched thousands of hectares of the sugar cane crops in Eshowe.....
Apparently one farm is completely burnt down and the other is alight as well. It's been said that the vicitms are battling to get services to respond.
There is a desperate plea for help from Saps .
This is a developing story and I will try to update as soon as I can
Please note TST MEMBERS have NOT responded and as such the info we are relaying are from 3rd parties on the scene.
This is a very worrying situation with serious undertones for the rest of our country.

There was a connection to the killing of a young local man, for illegal fishing, by a farm security guard. Not a land invasion per se from what I have read.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It never takes more than almost a couple of minutes to go through the firearm customs into Tanzania.

The import permit is presented, they check the serial number, and you are on your way.

Why can’t South Africa do the same?

Saeed, That could be true. This was my take on getting into Tanzania.

Made it all the way through customs and was waiting on getting the person to fill out th epaper work for my rifle.

Walks in the the book, forgot his pen, did not want to use my ink pen. so off he goes. Return with his ink pen. opens the book and realizeses that he does not have carbon paper. so off he goes again. Returns with the carbon paper to fill out the paperwork for my rifle. then he asked about ammo and it matched my paperwork to a shell. Well you guessed it, by this time the lobby is empty, except for sister and me and my welcoming party. this experience was about 45 minutes in all. now i was the only hunter on the flight, so i got lucky and was first in line.