When I watch a Safari hunting video clip, I often see people trampling through the brush and charging through weeds to keep an eye on a wounded animal or to get another shot on a retreating buffalo. I see the general opinion is that it's simply an unlikely event to step on a snake and be bitten.

Does anybody really worry about this? In case you are the one guy in a million that gets bit, are anti-venom supplies usually available in camp?

I know it's an overblown concern of many who havn't been to Africa (including me) and that the risk kind of comes with the territory. It seems a valid concern, though, if you are THAT guy. Anybody here ever been bitten or had a "close call" with snakes?

I live in africa and spend as much time as possible in the bush hunting.In the warmer months of the hunting season is when you have more chance of seeing snakes but most of the time they are busy making a retreat.Only twice have i nearly been bittin and both times it has been a puff adder.Lazy little thing

Jimmara,

Welcome to the forum.

Your profile hasn't been filled in....... can I ask where you are in Africa?

I'm based in White River RSA.

on a kruger park 3-day wilderness trail walk, I watched my wife step over a puff adder as if it were a log. Her foot landed one inch from the middle of the snakes body. It was as big around as my arm. They are a lazy snake but the strike is very fast and I have heard the results are quite nasty. I could not help but think how that could have changed the mood of the vacation!

Steve i live JHB to be precise in a suberb called Northcliff.

Sergeant, you have more chances of getting hit by the bus that picks you up when you climb off the plane.

In case it does happen the ph's or guides will be able to help you by first indentifying the snake and then apply first aid.

Jimmara

OK, There are a few other forum members in your neck of the woods as well then. - A few of them came up to Sabie a couple of weeks ago and 375fanatic very kindly hosted a braii/shoot/piss up etc at his place. - Maybe we'll see you at the next one......

Anti-venom should only be seen as an absolute LAST resort if you are truly out of all help range and this will typically only be for snakes with Neurotoxic venom (most of the Elapidae i.e. cobras and mambas as a rule of thumb and a few others, or though exceptions exist).

Normally a pressure bandage/splint is the approach to use and then followed obviously by professional help.

A snake with Cytotoxin (most adders incl. puffadder) and deadly haemotoxin (i.e. Boomslang and Vine snake and there is almost no chance of a bite from one of these) will not kill you very quickly, so time is well on your side.

problems with anti venom incl:
- volume, most kits are woefully under stocked and the little bit they contain would be of no use in the case of a severe bite.

- allergy - are you allergic to it?

- dry bite - these exist and the snake may not have envenomated you - heroically injecting anitvenom will result in evenomating the casualty!

- expiry - has the anti-venom been sitting behind the Cruiser seat for 3 years in the hot cab?

Anti venom has its place for sure but with people who really know it and understand it and understand snakes (for example the regular stuff it is ineffective against deadly haemotoxins). Very few people have a good in depth knowledge of snakes and unfortunately many old wives tales still abound.

Like Safari Hunt said, your chance is SLIM. I stand corrected but RSA's annual recorded death toll from snake bite is about 12 people, from lightning strikes is over 200....

Tyipcally (and statistically) the most dangerous part of the hunt or any outdoor adventure is motorized transport...

Keep your eyes open and enjoy!

I have seen snakes in the bush but those sightings are rare. If i'm quick enough I try to get my camera out to take pics but they are usually gone before I can do that. Close and dangerous encounters are rarer still, although I have killed a 9-foot Black Mamba that was responsible for the death of 4 heads of cattle.

The only places that freak me out are the ground blinds - great places for mambas to hide.

In Namibia, if you do get bitten the PH can radio for helicopter medevac. It would help if you have a GPS to pinpoint your exact location. Also having good medical and evacuation insurance is recommended. Keep your eyes open and follow your trackers and you'll be alright.

Don't let your concern about snakes keep you from hunting Africa. You'll be missing out of one of life's great adventures if you do.

Namibiahunter

Saw 6 mambas on one safari and 5 crawled away and this one came to a knife fight and I brought a big gun... It decided to stay after being hit in the neck...

Mike

I shot a Taipan in our back yard last week. My wife saw it a few days before but it dissappeared into the Bougainvillea. Then she saw it again nearby and called me. I shot it in the eye with my air rifle from 4 yards, because a few years before an Eastern Brown decided to hang around and it killed our cat before I finished it off (again with my air rifle), and I wasn't going to take the chance this time that it would get one of us instead of a pet. We also keep plenty of compression bandages in and around the home just in case. We live on the banks of the Logan river and I take the dog for a walk at least once a week. It seems that when you are moving through the bush you generally make enough noise that snakes sense your approach and leave, because I have seen more around the home than down the back paddock. I am sure it is the same in Africa, your biggest risk is from the snakes that wander into the camp site (or blinds). I am sure most PH's keep compression bandages too, because a compression bandage applied quickly immediately after a bite increases your survival chances significantly, even when bitten by he deadliest neurotoxic snakes. The other aspect of not being envenomated is also important to understand. About 5 years ago my wife was bitten by a snake, I applied a compression bandage and got her to hospital pronto. After examination and a night in hospital the doctor released her with no ill effect except a slighly queasy stomach. The doctor explained that in this case it was likely that the snake had not invenomated (perhaps only the minutest trace of venom would explain the queasy stomach, either that or just the emotional reaction to being bitten), and in this case if antivenom had been administered it would have done more harm than good.

Thanks for the invite Steve i will take you guys up on it the nexted time.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmara:
I live in africa and spend as much time as possible in the bush hunting.In the warmer months of the hunting season is when you have more chance of seeing snakes but most of the time they are busy making a retreat.Only twice have i nearly been bittin and both times it has been a puff adder.Lazy little thing

I don't live in Africa like Jimmara. But! Our season here is almost never cold enough to guarantee a snake free day.

He is absolutely right that most snakes get the heck out of there when they sense you coming. That's my experience here as well. I also agree it's the "Lazy" ones that are most likely to cause you an issue.

IME, there are more "Lazy" snakes on cold mornings then any other time. They usually like to coil up in the sun and warm up before going for the days hunt. They don't like to move when they are warming up. These are the ones you are a threat to step on.

Also, if you're tracking a hit animal and the sun starts to fall, beware. IME, snakes seem to really like a blood trail. They seem to really like the smell of blood. I am certain they don't plan on eating what you've shot but I do believe the carcass attracts other edible size prey for the snakes. Perhaps this is the dinner bell that gets rung when they smell blood. I've run into snakes on blood trails in the dark so many times now, I actually expect it.

Don't let fear of snakes keep you from a Safari. If it was really all that bad, everyone who has gone on multiple safaris would already be dead

I would doubt more than maybe a rare few hunting camps would have anti-venom on hand. Anti-venom needs to be administered by a doctor, if not done right it will only complicate matters, especially if the snake was not properly identified. Anti-venom can also be extremely expensive, and like all medications it expires. Several different anti-venoms would also be needed to cover bites of all the snakes in RSA.

You would need several vials of 3 or 4 different antivenoms to treat snakebites from snakes native to south africa.

Also, the main antivenoms for treating snakebites from snakes in southern africa is made at the South African Institute for Medical Research in Johannesburg, so the source of the antivenom is close.

The only experience I have had with poisonous snakes not native to north america has been at exotic reptile expos in the "hot room". I own a nuisance wildlife control buisness, specializing in snake removal, so I have lots of experience with rattlesnakes, cottonmouths, and copperheads. I've been bitten 4 times by copperheads, and took a dry hit from an eastern diamond-back rattlesnake. I have no idea how many times my snake boots have been hit. All the result of my complacency.

No real worries about snakes in Africa. Sure they're around, but it's not like the scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. I've seen a total of 4 snakes on 12 safaris. The trackers had to point out two of them to me. Safari season is mostly a quiet period for snakes. It's generally cool. The trackers will go before you in the bush, and they will spot them before you. Additionally, 4+ people sneaking around the bush will alert most snakes, who will want to hit the road. Don't worry a bit about them. Remember Steve Irwin: it's not the snakes, it's the rays!

I've only encountered Mamba's (2 black, 1 green) during the Zim summer (February). None during the normal hunting months. Not really a concern but kayaker posts some excellent info. If your really concerned, buy yourself a pair of "snake proof" pants. I believe Rattler is one brand. Forget camo, OD green is best and probably cheaper. Take a snake bite stun gun. That will reverse the polarity of the venom and make unable to attach to the blood cells. Meanwhile; stay frosty!
LDK

Snake bite stun gun? More information please? Anyone with any experience of these?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Snake bite stun gun? More information please? Anyone with any experience of these?
Peter.

No experience with one, but my experience with chemicals and electrical current leads me to be highly suspicious of any claim that one zap can render all the venom instantly harmless. It would take a whole lot more than one zap to do that.

In other words, it's pretty darn unlikely!!!

A great deal of research was begun back in the 1970's. It was determined (and published in several top outdoor mags over multiple issues) that the electrical current delivered to a snake bite wound would reverse the snake venoms polarity to positive, thereby making it unable to attach itself to red blood cells, which are positively charged. I personally followed this with great interest and saw photo evidence comparing snake bite treated with antivenin vs "stun gun" shock. In all cases, electrical shock left almost unnoticeable scarring, while antivenin treatment prevented death, but in some cases left the victims with horrible scars. This included poisonous spiders, scorpions and other insects. I remember the "Snake Doctor" as one commercially available product being made in Arkansas, but the AMA didn't want this going on, so they took a major stance on it. Hell yeah, they don't want anything getting in the way of greed. Many third world countries continue to treat snake bite with auto batteries and such. I'll take the shock over waiting hours to reach a hospital. Just my take on it.
LDK

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
A great deal of research was begun back in the 1970's. It was determined (and published in several top outdoor mags over multiple issues) that the electrical current delivered to a snake bite wound would reverse the snake venoms polarity to positive, thereby making it unable to attach itself to red blood cells, which are positively charged. I personally followed this with great interest and saw photo evidence comparing snake bite treated with antivenin vs "stun gun" shock. In all cases, electrical shock left almost unnoticeable scarring, while antivenin treatment prevented death, but in some cases left the victims with horrible scars. This included poisonous spiders, scorpions and other insects. I remember the "Snake Doctor" as one commercially available product being made in Arkansas, but the AMA didn't want this going on, so they took a major stance on it. Hell yeah, they don't want anything getting in the way of greed. Many third world countries continue to treat snake bite with auto batteries and such. I'll take the shock over waiting hours to reach a hospital. Just my take on it.
LDK

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying the electrical treatment has no merit. I am saying that a one ZAP stun treatment is IMHO going to be pretty futile. The auto battery stunt though lower voltage may actually work better because it can be applied longer.

Perhaps someone with actual medical experience will chime in here but I don't think a high voltage jolt after being snake bit is all that good an idea. A person's heart is just going to be in to much distress for this to be a good idea. The heart is going to be affected by a high voltage jolt. IMO, too risky.

If someone wants to set me straight on this they are welcome to. But currently the stun gun method scares the heck out of me. Car battery, not so much.

I'd like to hear more on this.

Well, the <a href=http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/features/995_snakes.html>FDA</a> says "No electric shock. This method is under study and has yet to be proven effective. It could harm the victim."

and

The <a href=http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020401/1367.html>American Association of Family Physicians</a> says "Although electric shock (often with a stun gun) has been a popular treatment for snakebite in developing countries, it should be avoided as it is a potentially hazardous intervention that has never been shown to be effective."

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
A great deal of research was begun back in the 1970's. It was determined (and published in several top outdoor mags over multiple issues) that the electrical current delivered to a snake bite wound would reverse the snake venoms polarity to positive, thereby making it unable to attach itself to red blood cells, which are positively charged. I personally followed this with great interest and saw photo evidence comparing snake bite treated with antivenin vs "stun gun" shock. In all cases, electrical shock left almost unnoticeable scarring, while antivenin treatment prevented death, but in some cases left the victims with horrible scars. This included poisonous spiders, scorpions and other insects. I remember the "Snake Doctor" as one commercially available product being made in Arkansas, but the AMA didn't want this going on, so they took a major stance on it. Hell yeah, they don't want anything getting in the way of greed. Many third world countries continue to treat snake bite with auto batteries and such. I'll take the shock over waiting hours to reach a hospital. Just my take on it.
LDK

do you REALLY believe the AMA would oppose any device/ treatment that was beneficial in treating snake bites for financial reasons? beside if you go to an ER for snakebite treatment, the doctor there gets NO money for whatever drug treatment( including antivenin) that is given there. payment for drugs given in an ER does to the hospital, not the doctor( who may or may not be a possible AMA member). if there is one thing i would be really concerned about it would medical research published in an outdoor mag( but then again we know how much faith to put in their descriptions of hunt reports they got for free- can you spell shill)!! a lot of third world counties treat a lot of things with bullshit therapies for lack of a better ( read cheaper) alternative. that doesn't make it a good idea. but if you really think it works, just take a motorcycle battery and 2 wires on your next safari and hope you never need it.

So much for HTML, untangle those links, both say emphatically not to do it.

Nothing cures snakebite quicker'n cardiac arrest...

ain't that the truth!!!!!!!

When my cameraman hollered "Don't move - there's a snake at your feet, I almost had the big one. Luckily it was non-poisonous, but it did make it hard to steady up and take a shot at a leopard!

I've always been told, "just watch the trackers, they'll let you know when a snake is around". One time in Zim. we started down the side of a cut and the birds were going crazy in a near by tree. The PH and I wandered over and from underneath looking up we couldn't see a thing. I asked "what do thinks going on here"? Ph "I'm not sure". Me, "Maybe a snake"? PH, "No, if it was a snake the trackers wouldn't be anywhere around here". I looked around, not a trackers in sight, we both decided to have a foot race. He lost.

This is why there should be alcohol in camp.

if a snake bites me he will die of alcohol or nicotene poisoning that if i miss him with my knopkierie i hate snakes.

i shot a mfezi(mozambiquean spitting kobra) 7 times chucked him on the workshop floor and went hunting.when we came back he had rolled on his stomach again so we took of his head. he didnt move again

never trust a snake

jimmara welcome

On a previous post I posted that I was looking for a sjambok. I intended to use it on snakes not for cattle or other purposes.

Here's my 9-foot Black Mamba.



It took 2 hits from my .308 Win and 1 hit from the PH's 9,3x62.

In reference to the stun gun - I think I'd give that a try before the antivenin.

Namibiahunter

I have seen some pythons and quite a few cape cobras. On one cobra I almost stepped bare-footed. I quickly shut the door behind me (snake was lying right in front of the door) so nothing happened, except that I shot another (or was it the same?) cobra the same day in our neighbour's house. .38 SPL shot shells always worked fine.

I don't want to hijack this thread, however, the comments about the high ethical standards of the AMA and it's members is worth a comment. Having spent over 25 years in data processing, several of them in hospitals, I was impressed a few years ago, by the advent of programs that helped with the diagnosis of illnesses. The idea is you enter some basic information and then start entering symptoms. Each time the program produces a shorter list of possible diagnoses, and suggested questions to help narrow down the diagnoses. I demonstrated this to several doctors and the head of MDs at a local hospital. There was polite interest and that was it. The general comment was "I know more than this program does"! Now, here was program, with a massive database, and these guys (and they were all men) were trying to tell me that they could remember all the couse work in medical school! BULLSHIT! Thats why people die of rare diseases, because they are RARE. The database would have found this, the MDs do not. I pointed out that they did not have to depend on it. They could just use it to consult, see if perhaps they have missed anything. My conclusion? The MDs are deathly afraid that some RN will take their job away from them. Sorry to be so cynical. The software was written by a doctor BTW, so by no means a slam on the whole profession.
For what it's worth, this was several years ago now, so, perhaps the hospitals have such software by now. Having said that, the AMA was certainly not pushing the technology envelope.
Peter.

I always find it a little funny when clients freak out about snakes. I guess it's because I live in Arizona... the desert. We have rattle snakes everywhere! I just tell clients that they have to realize it is Africa and there are snakes.

You have to do like you do here in the states, be cautious of where you're stomping and just be aware that you may run into one.

Hi there Sergeant, I would think that most camps probably have some sort of basic snake-bite kit (even if it has been left in the fridge or Cruiser for some years!). I think that Kayaker said it right, most of the time the kits are not really enough for a serious mamba or cobra bite, and are best left to someone who knows what they are doing with regards to injecting. With any neurotoxic Elapid bite, a tourniquet, string or anything that can be tied around an arm or limb are a great asset and potential life-saver. Conversely, if this is done with an adder/viper bite, the results will be very bad, so it is important that identification of the snake is made before applying one. It seems that with mambas at least there have been quite a few documented 'dry bites', which is always comforting. I think that the snake ultimately wants to conserve it's venom and would rather maybe scare you off than having to use it. With a mamba bite I think that you would know pretty soon whether it was an envenomation or not. I think that most of the basic snake-bite kits are probably not enough as Kayaker said, although they may be enough to get you by before you get to hospital which can make the difference between life and death.

As to fearing running around/through bushes etc, I would not worry at all, yes it could happen that there is a boomslang in one of the bushes, but it would more likely be heading in the opposite direction just as fast as you! I think puff-adders, and maybe the cornering of any cobra, spitting cobra or black mamba are the only real serious threat posed to you. All of the mambas (green, black and Jamieson's) are usually very alert and fast and although they are supposed to be territorial, and there are reports of them chasing people, I think that most of the time these stories have come from exaggerated talk and hype. 99% of the time they will sense your movements (either visually or by vibration, they seem to have much better eyesight than cobras) and make themselves very scarce. However, if you surprise and confront one in a confined space, such as inside a room, I think that they can be quite fearsome though (apparently standing around neck/head-height hissing with open black-mouth, etc), and then I would be afraid, very afraid!

I think that you will see snakes when out in the bush, and almost all the time they will be on the move away from you (except maybe the adders)! Only when you try catch or kill the snake are you really starting to risk getting bitten.

A tourniquet is passe' One must wrap the bite site with a pressure bandage.. not so tight as to cut the circulation off.. keep the bite site elevated and keep movment to a minimum. Transport immediately preferably by chopper.
One does not just administer antivenin with a quick injection ! It is administerd through an IV..
A metalic taste or numbing of the lips is a sure sign of envenomation.
Professional hunters should know this If they don't then questionn thier licences..

I have quite a bit of experience with a small suction device called a Sawyer suction. It is yellow and sold commonly in the States. I carry 2 of the syringes so that I can fasten one on each of the fang holes. I have given them to my missionary friends in Africa and between us we have used them for bees, scorpions and cobras. t works. Let's just assume that it pulls out 20% of the venom. Since venom is cumulative in force this will reduce the shock and damage closer to 50%. I use it for bee stings repeatedly and go from swollen limb 2X to a small BB size nodule under the skin.
In over 40 safaris to Africa neither myself nor any of my staff (I use between 7-25 porters depending on the trip length and number of hunters) have been bit. WE se snakes almost every trip and I have collected 9’ cobras and an 18’ python.
On the shockers some of the missionaries used them for a number of years when they first were popular in the press. None do any more, need I say more. The people it was used on claimed it hurt like hell. Antivenom has to be refrigerated to maintain potency. My safaris are all on foot, so that is not an option.
Camshaft

Saw three cobras and a puff adder in Nam in 2006. Early in the season, though.

Let the trackers lead, if still warm and early in the season.

We have browns and Taipans here in Oz, nasty bastards, aggressive as mambas.

I see a lot more snakes when I hunt in Australia than I do when I hunt in Africa. I see a lot more snakes when I hunt in Texas than I do when I hunt in Australia, for what ever that is worth, snakes don't bother me much.

I have noticed on many of the videos I have seen, that the PHs don't seem to worry about snakes that much. They wear short shorts and boots and thats about all. Any records of PHs being bitten? It seems to me that should tell a lot, after all they are out there a lot more than the 1 or 2 week hunter.
Peter

If it weren't for the thorns I'd wear shorts also. Boots above the ankles are too hot for my comfort.

Just be aware of the possibility of snakes but not be afraid of them.

Namibiahunter

In Namibia a few years ago, the tracker, the PH, and I all walked past the horned adder that my son saw in the red dirt path just as his foot was coming down. He did a little hop and straddled it. We got good pictures with the PH holding it up on a stick for a pose. He let it go alive.

PH's take, the first person steps on it and wakes it up, the second steps on it and pisses it off, the third gets bitten. Good thing there were no more of us! Bob