Phone cord lanyards. Worked on a team when we all went over to these - we were all convinced they would snag on everything and were very surprised when they didn't. They are surprisingly good.
Weapon retention. Get a holster with a built in retention/security function, not just a strap/popper. Safariland do some good ones. However you tend to lose concealment, if that is an issue.

Vlam choose a glock or a mountain gun ,but then train with it ,i shoot with my glock at least 3 times a week ,and recently i attended a course of tactical shooting with spec ops personnel ,theere we learnt extreme close contact techniques ,and malfuction techniques ,we cleaned jams in less than a second ,if you are skilled enough ,you can put double taps very easily ,REMEMBER THAT REVOLVER DOUBLE ACTION FIRE IS VERY DIFFICULT,GANYANA is an IPSC revolver champion .Forget snubbies they are only good as 2nd handgun.See GABE SUAREZ ,videos in google they will terach something ,he trains once a year in south africa ,KELLY MCCAAN is another good instructor.Juan

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:
JB
Thanks for posting those, it give me a better idea of the actual dimensions.
I take it that he is using it as a primary weapon when he is running his dogs, not as a back up. I assume that in these situations the quick firing ability of the Autoloader would be a major advantage in a hand cannon on a charge.
Do you have an e-mail adress for Tristan? I wouldnt mind getting in touch with him.


Thanks
Ian

Vlam
Here is Tristan's adress. zimhound@web.co.zw
A nice guy but not prone to use the internet, try Your luck.

84 S.W.A.T. » MAY 2007 SWATMAG.COM
TACTICALR
I
take pride in quickly perceiving the
advantages of polymer construction
and the new safe-action triggers her-
alded by Glock. The re-emergent popu-
larity of the classic 1911—with many
manufacturers offering features as stan-
dard that were once custom—is another
bandwagon I quickly jumped on. I have
several “black rifles†and still get looks
when I show up in deer camp with an
AR-10 or prairie dog fields with an AR-
15 variant.
So what was I doing at my local fire-
arms store, drooling over a newly re-
ceived Smith & Wesson revolver? I had
merely stopped by for my weekly ther-
apy session, which means I was hiding
out from work and spouse, when the re-
volver caught my eye. It upended all my
preconceived notions and turned my or-
derly world chaotic. I had always given
the revolver its due as a masterpiece of
19th century firearm design, but it was
an anachronism not supposed to be able
to compete in the 21st century, let alone
make me stop in my tracks.
I am familiar with the new “X†frame
.500 S&W and .460 S&W behemoths
from Smith & Wesson taking the sport-
ing world by storm with new definitions
of handgun power and potency. The use
of scandium and titanium in the quest
to make the classic snub nose weigh in
not much above a feather also comes to
mind as true advances for revolver tech-
nology. Still, how had a revolver caught
my eye?
It was unlike any other revolver I had
ever seen. Here was a revolver with a
tactical flair—yes, tactical. What an oxy-
moron—a tactical revolver. It had an in-
tegral accessory rail machined into the
barrel shroud and another mounted on
top of the frame for lights, lasers, opti-
cal sights or anything else one might
feel is necessary to hang on a handgun.
The black matte finish contributed to
the sinister, all business image. The par-
» By TODD BURGREEN
» PHOTOS By KEITH KILMER
I like to think of myself as a progressive, forward-thinking
individual when it comes to firearm design and trends.
ATN Digital Ultra reflex sight adds
to usability and effectiveness of
M&P R8. Insight M3 light completes
package. Finding suitable means
to carry the revolver is obviously a
challenge when fully outfitted.
SWATMAG.COM S.W.A.T. » MAY 2007 85
REVOLVER
ticular revolver I am speaking of is the
new Model 327 M&P R8 from the S&W
Performance Center. I purchased the
new S&W before a price tag could be
placed on it. Let me describe my ensu-
ing scrutiny and evaluation of the S&W
Model 327 M&P R8 and how it proved
itself worthy of the tactical moniker.
The S&W Model 327 M&P R8 might
be a revolver, but it has features worthy
of the 21st century. The S&W Model 327
M&P R8 receives the following treat-
ment from the Performance Center: 1)
Wolff mainspring and traditional sear
for smooth double-action trigger, 2)
polished button polygonal rifling in the
custom Walther barrel, 3) precision bar-
rel forcing cone, 4) optimum barrel cyl-
inder gap, 5) chamfered charge holes, 6)
ball detent cylinder lock-up, 7) forged
hammer and trigger that are flashed
chromed, 8) tuned action, 9) cylinder
relieved to accept moonclips. Pretty im-
pressive stuff.
The M&P R8 is based on the S&W
“N†frame, of Model 29 .44 Mag fame,
constructed of scandium alloy except
the two-piece barrel insert and stainless
steel cylinder, which holds eight rounds
of .357 Magnum! Weight is 36.3 oz and
the five-inch barrel contributes to an
overall length of ten and one-half inch-
es. The barrel and shroud are separate
components. The custom Walther barrel
is secured inside the barrel shroud by a
special lock nut system used by S&W.
Accuracy from the custom Walther
barrel met expectations, keeping five
rounds from each of the three Hornady
Custom JHP/XTP loadings (125-gr.,
140-gr., and 158-gr.) under two inches
at 25 yards. It was obvious the M&P R8
could outperform my shooting abilities.
The black rubber grips and large frame
helped to tame the .357 Magnum recoil
and allowed for fast target reacquisi-
tion. Fellow shooters at the range were
drawn to the M&P R8’s aesthetics and
impressed by its performance off the
bench and other field tests. Anecdotally,
clay pigeons were routinely shattered at
35 yards firing offhand. I evaluated the
M&P R8 with numerous trips to a pri-
vate range equipped with falling plate
racks, man popper steel plate targets, a
dueling tree and other training devices.
Many raised eyebrows were apparent
when two more shots sounded after the
customary six were fired.
The M&P R8’s eight-round capacity is
a 33% increase in firepower over the six-
holed revolver cylinders we are more ac-
customed to. The .357 Magnum cartridge
represents the near perfect combination
of controllability, power, accuracy and le-
thality in a pistol cartridge. Eight 125-gr.
357 Magnum rounds combine for 4,992
foot-pounds of energy. To equal this, you
need 15 rounds of 9mm, 11 rounds of .40
S&W, and 13 rounds of .45 ACP. This is
not a scientific study, but I think it gets
my point across.
It’s no surprise that I favored the sin-
gle-action trigger for my range work.
The single-action trigger measured a
crisp 3.5-4.0 pounds using an RCBS trig-
ger gauge with no creep. The double-ac-
tion trigger pull, even on a Performance
Center tuned revolver, is something not
easily mastered at ranges past 10 yards
in terms of accuracy. A mantra for all
firearms instructors is the importance
of trigger control for accurate shooting.
Many may take me to task for this, but I
feel the double-action trigger should be
saved for CQB encounters and ranges
measured in feet.Use single-action for
aimed fire at anything beyond room dis-
tance.
The moonclips included with the
Model 327 M&P R8 are a bonus feature
and show the S&W Performance Center
attention to detail. The ability to use ei-
ther moonclips or regular loading meth-
ods is a feature often reserved for high-
end pistolsmith work. One criticism I
have of the moonclips is that the rounds
should be held more snugly, minimizing
lateral movement. This would speed up
reload times when using the moonclips.
For comparison’s sake, I did a search on
the Internet for eight-round speedload-
ers, without success. I averaged four to
seven seconds between last round fired,
eject empties from the cylinder, load
eight fresh rounds, and resume firing
with the moonclips. Of course, practice
will reduce the reload times with the
M&P R8. Admittedly, this time is slower
than what can be expected from a maga-
zine-fed semiautomatic.
The accessory rail on top of the frame
is fastened by four Allen head screws and
can be removed. This adds great flexibil-
ity in setting up the M&P R8 for individ-
ual needs. The rail is notched, allowing
the use of the open sights when the rail
is mounted. I leave the rail mounted on
my pistol full time as it in no way hin-
ders using the adjustable “V†notch rear
sight and very visible interchangeable
Partridge white dot front sight. Readers
beware of an earlier production run of
M&P R8s named TRR8, which did not
have the top accessory rail notched, al-
lowing the use of the open sights when
mounted.
I mounted an ATN Digital Ultra Sight
on the accessory rail. It not only contrib-
uted to the CDI (Chicks Dig It) factor,
but also markedly improved the effec-
tiveness of the revolver in rapid action
drills involving plate racks and steel
popper targets. One of the biggest ad-
vantages I found using the ATN Digital
Ultra Sight was that I could keep both
eyes open when engaging targets. This
allowed for smoother, quicker runs on
the plate racks and bowling pins. The
ATN sight has five different reticle pat-
terns with multiple brightness levels to
choose from based on user preference.
I favored the post style. The ATN reflex
sight withstood the recoil dished out.
The ATN sight, combined with the flat
shooting .357 Magnum, would make any
target, even at 100 to 150 yards, quickly
find suitable cover.
Another .357 Magnum advantage is
the ability to “download†it for use by
novice shooters or youths by simply
loading .38 Special cartridges. This is
not something to be underestimated. I
practice with .38 Special rounds when I
want to work on shooting fundamentals
without wrestling with the .357’s full
power recoil and muzzle blast. Practice
with .38 Specials can aid in building con-
fidence and expose recoil-induced bad
habits. However, do not overdo the .38
Special range time in lieu of practicing
with .357 Magnum rounds. I use Sellier
& Bellott .357 Magnum 158-gr. soft
point loads regularly at the range. The
Sellier & Bellott loads closely duplicate
my Hornady carry loads. Superstitious
or not, I do not leave the range without
firing a cylinder of the full power loads
last.
Holster options are limited at this
time, due to the unique barrel profile
with the integral accessory rail. I found
general holsters for large frame revolvers
had a better chance of working than any
molded for a specific model. My assault
vest with built-in holster platform and
also my tactical thigh rigs worked well.
This is convenient considering what the
Model 327 M&P R8 was designed for.
One note: usable holsters will become
even harder to find with the ATN sight
mounted.
The M&P R8 design impetus stemmed
from police tactical teams experiencing
malfunction problems with the slides
of their semiautomatic pistols coming
into contact with their ballistic shields
when engaging a target. S&W quickly
stepped in to fill the void. Honestly, the
M&P R8 will never take over the police
or military tactical markets. The semiau-
tomatics perform and function too well
for this. However, I do predict the M&P
R8 will find increasing use as a weapon
for point men or other specialty roles.
For individuals not concerned with such
specific tactical matters, the S&W Model
M&P 327 R8 will give solid performance
as a self-defense weapon. It is a custom
tactical revolver designed to excel in a
much harsher environment than your
home. It will surely stand up to the
rigors expected from the use private
citizens will subject it to. The ability to
mount a light/laser, combined with re-
liable, simple functioning and one-shot
stopping power, is a premium no matter
who the user is.
The M&P R8 will be a “nightstand†or
vehicle-based gun more than a concealed
carry weapon due to size constraints.
However, those of us “blessed†with dis-
tinct fall/winter seasons could carry it in
combination with cold weather clothing
such as sweatshirts, vests and coats.
I was initially drawn to the S&W
Model 327 M&P R8 by its appearance
and the thought of .357 Magnum power
with revolver reliability. Semiautomatic
designers are constantly trying to dupli-
cate the .357 Magnum’s ballistic perfor-
mance and capture it in a semiautomatic
platform.
The .357 Magnum has served as the
benchmark cartridge for law enforce-
ment and personal defense since its
introduction in 1935. The 327 M&P R8
holds it own, not only for a revolver, but
also in terms used to measure any hand-
gun type.
Some good pics of the .357

Hey Everyone
Thanks for all the feedback
Just found another article on the revolver posted above, not sure why so long and thin.

Juan - The mountain gun is very similar to the .327 except it does not have the advantages of the 8 shot capacity or the moon clips etc. I think that what Ganyana said about the realsitic knowck down difference between a .44 and a .357 in real situations on game is neglible, but the penetration afforded by the .357 with solids seems like the answer. Is there something I dont know about the mountain gun.
There is one more reason I dont want to go for an autoloader, the laws are strict and if I cannot motivate it properly my application copuld be rejected. With the Model 327 I can pass it off as IPSC/Hunting/PH Backup revolver, the fact that it comes on custom order from the performance centre is a huge plus point.
I would love to have a glock too, but I think it will be another 2-3 years before I get a license through for one of those, 5 -7 if I get rejected. So I think I will stick with revolver for now and then start the process for the glock after. I will also need to get my wife a compact autoloader at some point and me not having one on my name will help in her application as it is now common for them to deny licenses due to the fact that " your husband can protect you"

Ganyana - I may be able to have a custom lanyard swivel on the revolver or have them machine a recessed on into the frame. I am interested in IPSC, with the moon clips that it comes with as standard, will this do for a good rig to start with?

BullTerrier - Thanks for that. I think I will go ahead and order one. As I spend a lot of time either on horseback or on motorbikes that could save me a lot of trouble, not to mention eliminating the chance of being shot with my own weapon. The diagrams for the tri tech lanyard ,link posted in prior post, for getting the revolver back from a grabber were quite interesting. Any comment on that or experiences to relay?

Thanks again for all the advice and shared experience. I think I will post a link on www.trailsranger.com as I think it will be great for young guides etc.

About 35 years ago a friend stopped a lion with 6 rounds from a Colt Python. Six shots in the chest in 5 seconds. It happened in Niger in 1971 or '72. The lion was killing women and goats.
It wasn't done on purpose but his Model 70 failed to feed leaving him alone.