quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
So here we are trying to decide whether a Ping driver is better than a Taylor Made and somebody brings up Cobra drivers? Wait, am I in the right thread?

Enjoy the show


Not much different from the old argument which is better a 270 Winchester or a 280 Remington.

The animals never noticed ny difference.

A gentleman at Holland and Holland tried his best to convince me that the 240 H&H Magnum was better at killing than the 243 Winchester.

Both drive a 100 grain bullet at about 3000 fps but apparently the Holland is much better at it

The .280 Rem is better and kills stuff deader....

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
So here we are trying to decide whether a Ping driver is better than a Taylor Made and somebody brings up Cobra drivers? Wait, am I in the right thread?

Enjoy the show


Not much different from the old argument which is better a 270 Winchester or a 280 Remington.

The animals never noticed ny difference.

A gentleman at Holland and Holland tried his best to convince me that the 240 H&H Magnum was better at killing than the 243 Winchester.

Both drive a 100 grain bullet at about 3000 fps but apparently the Holland is much better at it

The .280 Rem is better and kills stuff deader....

I built a 270 Ackley top hunt with, because the 270 Winchester was not good enough

The hunter in me doesn't see a damn bit of difference between 7x57 and 338-06 or whatever.

The rifle loony in me can't NOT see the difference.

I have to satisfy both.

I believe that frontal area helps with shocking power or squat down power as we say in Oz.

But I believe the most critical part of the equation is the bullet. If they aren't suited to the game, you are in the shit.

What is anyone's experience with the Peregrine bullets?

My 280 Ack Imp is better than that!

I remember one night in camp we were all yarning about which caliber was better and who had a Sako versus a Winchester and so on. This was in the Lords River block in Stewart Island 20+ years ago.

One of the guys in the groups who had been quiet all along suddenly got up and went out and we heard a bang. He then walked in with a big grin on his face and a beat up old 303 in his hands and quipped "my 303 is still king"!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
So here we are trying to decide whether a Ping driver is better than a Taylor Made and somebody brings up Cobra drivers? Wait, am I in the right thread?

Enjoy the show


Not much different from the old argument which is better a 270 Winchester or a 280 Remington.

The animals never noticed ny difference.

A gentleman at Holland and Holland tried his best to convince me that the 240 H&H Magnum was better at killing than the 243 Winchester.

Both drive a 100 grain bullet at about 3000 fps but apparently the Holland is much better at it

The .280 Rem is better and kills stuff deader....

I built a 270 Ackley top hunt with, because the 270 Winchester was not good enough

Odd that those that have spent decades in the field and hunted literally thousands of dangerous game animals generally all believe in the superior knock down power of larger calibers:

"I had become used to the .375 Magnum calibre and I was becoming very confident with it. Furthermore my competence grew every time I used it. I had come to respect its penetration capabilities and I was learning that its knock down power was deficient. I had, in fact, started to make allowances for that deficiency which was not good! There are times when the knock down power of the bullet is the only thing that stands between the hunter living and the hunter dying. But, in those years, I had not garnered enough experience to understand this. I was compensating, therefore, without understanding the implications."

Ron Thomson, Stand Your Ground (2011)

. . . perhaps as Ron suggests, it is an experience thing.

There is no such thing as KNOCKDOWN POWER!

Taylor's is nothing but a load of bloody bullshit.

He even had the bright idea of giving each caliber a bloody number!!??

Animals do not know math, and never did.

Hitting in the CNS and will drop.

Anywhere else, and it is your guess is as good as mine.

MJines,

If elephant wasn't on the menu what would be your go to caliber for DG hunting on a general bag safari?

I've settled on the .416 but my experience is limited to only 2 DG safaris and a handful of PG trips.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
There is no such thing as KNOCKDOWN POWER!

Taylor's is nothing but a load of bloody bullshit.

He even had the bright idea of giving each caliber a bloody number!!??

Animals do not know math, and never did.

Hitting in the CNS and will drop.

Anywhere else, and it is your guess is as good as mine.

Let's see, Thomson says a larger caliber does have greater knock down power and Saeed says there is no such thing . . . forgive me if I chose to ascribe more credence to Thomson's views.

. . . for dangerous game other than elephant . . . hunted up close and personal as opposed to the sniping preferred by some . . . I would prefer a .416 caliber or larger, e.g., .416 Rigby, .416 Rem, .404 Jeffery, .458 Win, .458 Lott, .450 NE, .470 NE, etc.

quote:

. . for dangerous game other than elephant . . . hunted up close and personal as opposed to the sniping preferred by some . . . I would prefer a .416 caliber or larger, e.g., .416 Rigby, .416 Rem, .404 Jeffery, .458 Win, .458 Lott, .450 NE, .470 NE, etc.

I was lucky enough to have Ivan Carter as a guest in my home many years ago when he lived in Wisconsin...we talked a lot about rifles/calibers and his advise was similar. He much preferred anything .40 and up. I was certain I'd never shoot more than an elephant or two which is why I went with the 450/400, but even around buffalo I felt a little bigger rifle would be nice. I've since decided to upgrade to either a 450 or 470. I haven't decided which one yet.

You can believe whoever you wish.

Does not alter the facts of life.

I have personally seen Taylor's Knockdown being disproven more than once.

And I believe my own eyes more than anything anyone else says

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You can believe whoever you wish.

Does not alter the facts of life.

I have personally seen Taylor's Knockdown being disproven more than once.

And I believe my own eyes more than anything anyone else says

Like I said, important to evaluate a person's credibility in deciding who and what to believe. I will take Ron's word on this one thank you.

I have very limited experience on cape buffalo up close with both 375HH and 577N.
Here it is:
All with the best in solid bullet performance and good lung heart shots. The 577 had a much bigger, more impressive effect. It also made me feel better. (very important.)

With a heart shot, the two killed with the .375 galloped and bucked for 30 yrs. The same heart shot with the .577 on two other buffs caused them to go 30 yards as well, but they were staggering and hoping as they went, like they had been kicked in the nuts by a giant.

I hit one too far back, with the 577, just nicked the lung, then the bullet went into the paunch. It could have been trouble. However the buff just went 40 yrs.

The 375 CEB solids and northfork solid cup point penetrated for 4-6 ft as I remember. (Shot between the front legs at close range.) 300 grain at 2500 fps.
The 577 hard cast solid went through one shoulder and stopped under the hide on the ribs on the far side every time. 700 grain at 1800 fps. (Minimal expansion.)

I hope this relates a bit.

In my 375 H&H Mag I reload with 300 grs Peregrine Bushmaster (VRG 3) at Vo 2550 f/sec.

In the 404 J I will try with 350 grs Peregrine Bushmaster (VRG 3) and the same with Peregrine solids (VRG 2)
Vo for both 2300 f/sec.
I think this will work very well.
The Peregrine bullet ha a deep penetration.

quote:

He much preferred anything .40 and up. I was certain I'd never shoot more than an elephant or two which is why I went with the 450/400, but even around buffalo I felt a little bigger rifle would be nice. I've since decided to upgrade to either a 450 or 470. I haven't decided which one yet.

To some, the 450/400 is considered a ladies' double and quite frankly not much good for anything other than shooting Tigers and it might just be it was the Mehmsaab's weapon of choice on those colonial plantations in India.
The 450NE is slightly better but if there was a choice to be had, would consider looking at the 470 or 500 range; anything above 500 cal can be wickedly unpleasant to handle.

quote:

anything above 500 cal can be wickedly unpleasant to handle.

And kills animals just as dead as my 375, without the unpleasant wickedness thrown in for free

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

anything above 500 cal can be wickedly unpleasant to handle.

And kills animals just as dead as my 375, without the unpleasant wickedness thrown in for free

Come on Saeed and own up that you simply cannot afford a double rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

anything above 500 cal can be wickedly unpleasant to handle.

And kills animals just as dead as my 375, without the unpleasant wickedness thrown in for free

Come on Saeed and own up that you simply cannot afford a double rifle.

Andrew,

I was brought up on single barrel shotguns, and bolt action rifles.

And doubles tend to be specialized rifles, while I like to have a rifle that will do everything.

That is why I designed and built my own for this very purpose, and it has been a resounding success!

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

He much preferred anything .40 and up. I was certain I'd never shoot more than an elephant or two which is why I went with the 450/400, but even around buffalo I felt a little bigger rifle would be nice. I've since decided to upgrade to either a 450 or 470. I haven't decided which one yet.

To some, the 450/400 is considered a ladies' double and quite frankly not much good for anything other than shooting Tigers and it might just be it was the Mehmsaab's weapon of choice on those colonial plantations in India.
The 450NE is slightly better but if there was a choice to be had, would consider looking at the 470 or 500 range; anything above 500 cal can be wickedly unpleasant to handle.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

anything above 500 cal can be wickedly unpleasant to handle.

And kills animals just as dead as my 375, without the unpleasant wickedness thrown in for free

Come on Saeed and own up that you simply cannot afford a double rifle.

Andrew,

I was brought up on single barrel shotguns, and bolt action rifles.

And doubles tend to be specialized rifles, while I like to have a rifle that will do everything.

That is why I designed and built my own for this very purpose, and it has been a resounding success!

Can't argue that.

I had a guy ask me one time. Would you hunt all DG in Africa with a 30-30 if I paid the bill for your Safari...You bet your sweet bippie I would if you paid for my 21 day safari..My only concern would be the elephant, Hippo, so Id want some solids..Hell Id probably use a rock if someone paid the bill.

In my younger days my .318 Westley took care of quite a few Elephant and Buffalo with box-standard factory ammo without too much fanfare.

Saeed's 375 is a souped up wildcat IIRC, and more potent than the regular old H&H. So definitely choose the 404 or better..