You know this usually stirs up a hornet's nest! Any way I use a Brno (CZ 602) in .458
Win. Magnum, but the .375 Ultra Mag is a nice cartridge. Personally, I might use it if it was chambered for a Brno or a Mod. 70 Winchester since I much prefer Mauser type actions, and this is where the controversy begins. My last bear hunter this year put down a nice bear with the lowly .338 Win. Mag., but the interesting thing was the way the stainless Remington 700 worked during the five days we were together. One day I noticed his bolt had fallen open and rounds had fallen onto the ground while he packed the thing on his shoulder (I never use slings in real bear country), and then, when the moment
of truth came and the bear was in his sights the rifle failed to fire! No malfunctioning
ammo, the trigger was squeezed and nothing! And no the safety was not on. Fortunately my hunter had enough composure left that he worked another round into the chamber and the second time the rifle actually fired. Then the floorplate came flying open and dumped
the rest of his ammo onto the ground. The point to all of this is simply it doesn't matter what the caliber is if it doesn't
send a bullet when the trigger is squeezed. Consider all your options before you buy,
and shoot it a lot, then leave it out in the rain for a week to see how it handles the weather.

Your experience parallels mine however, I'm a control feed fan of the highest order, but I have reached a point of just letting the decedents learn the hard way...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Also the floorplates serve a function(s). Sometimes opening the floorplate is the only way to overcome a jammmed cartridge. I personally don't want to be without a functioning floorplate.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

On the matter of CRF or not CRF, what do you guys think about ForrestB's post a couple of weeks ago on his custom Mauser locking up on him earlier this year resulting in his nephew getting batted around by ForrestB's wounded buffalo? He said his Mauser rifle and his nephew's M70 CFR rifle both would lock up when the action was worked rapidly simulating hunting conditions, simulating conditions that locked his rifle up with a buffalo close by. I have tried to get my Weatherby's (.416&.378) to lock up and I can't get them to do it (which makes me happy).

Robert Jobson

Can we agree that while the factories chamber some of their bolt guns in rounds suitable for use on dangerous game, that their rifles come up short? Same can be said for the offerings of their "custom" shops.

A dangerous game rifle is one assembled to function reliably under adverse conditions. Plain and simple. Now making a gun do that is a time consuming task, that requires a real gunsmith, who is willing to put the time in to do the work.

Control feed or push feed has nothing to do with it, though, if one understands the issues involved in a DGR, the choice of parent action is clear.

Several years ago I use to do the weekend range duty at a large rifle range. Shooters with various CRFs invariably had the most problems, with converted Mausers being the worst offenders.

I think CRF needs to be "more right" than a push feed to function reliably.

To me, the best thing about CRF is it is nicer to use, even down to running rounds through the magazine.

I also like CRF when we spotlight shoot because I can have the bolt about 2/3rds closed with the round in the extractor.

What I don't like is that you can't have your rifles set upso that barrels can be changed between actions unless the extractor slot is cut all the way around.

I also like having CRF in calibers like 300 and 375 H&H just so I can annoy DB Bill

Mike

For me, my rifles are working rifles designed to be powerful, accurate, portable and easy to maintain....I prefer rifles that max out at about 8 1/2 pounds for the more powerful and 7 1/2 lbs for the smaller, I like Swarovski optics, stainless steel barrels (23" or 24"), short actions, McMillan stocks and I like and 2 1/2 lb triggers. Not for everyone but just right for me. PS...my actions aren't CRF but they do have a dual ejector/extractor system.

Most of the push-feed actions were designed to save production costs, but they've been sold to the consumer under the guise of greater strength, greater safety, and greater accuracy. I don't buy into any of these supposed advantages for big game hunting purposes.

There are all sorts of places to save money, but to do so by selecting some sort push-feed bolt action for use on dangerous game is reverse economy, and might just prove to be a bitter bargain in my opinion.

AD

From Allen's post:

I'll take a good, well-adjusted, controlled-feed bolt-gun

Unfortunately, most CRFs don't meet the "well adjusted"

If you frequent any military forums, you will see that 303 SMLE comes in as number 1 and of course it was a push feed.

If you actually use a 303 SMLE as compared to a M98 you will see the difference.

The M98 must be one of the few rifles made to deal with overloads in a rifle that would only shoot military ammo.

In my opinion the CRF is a typical over engineered European product.

Works great if it is "well adjusted".

I like CRF for reasons I explained above. However, reliability of feeding would not be a reason.

An interesting test that some might like to do. Place a cartridge in the magazine and with the rifle pointed down and bolt fully drawn back, belt the bolt closed with a rubber mallet with both CRF and push feed.

When you do it, make sure the case rims are in good condition for the CRF Also make sure your particular rifle has appropriate clearance between the extractor and bolt face.

Something else I should point out. Current Model 70s can all be made to double feed. I can do it everytime.

This occurs because of the bolt stop and ejector position Winchester use. That is, you expose the head of the case in the magazine before the ejector has worked on the extracted case.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike375 (edited 11-06-2001).]

You could be right. What is your excuse

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by DB Bill:
I wonder what all the lefties did before Winchester started making left-handed rifles.

---

Well, knowing that we would be in a world of hurt if we tried to reload our left handed Remingtons, we just aimed true and killed 'em with the first shot!

What do you right handers do?

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

As I also stated previously in this thread, the factories do not produce dangerous game rifles, they simply chamber their offerings for dangerous game rounds.

If one is going to build a DGR, they will start with a CRF action, and then procede to build a DGR, as thats the only way to get one. Oh, and it won'd be build by Bubba's Gun's under the shadetree either