""He spotted the cat at close quarters, but missed it with his 458 when it charged.
He put his hand across his face just as it pounced on him and it sunk its teeth into his forearm.
Before they had set out Blake had had given his tracker his 45 hand gun as a back-up and at this point the tracker jumped forward, stuck it into the cats ribs and pulled the trigger. The only sound they heard from the gun was a click as the round failed to go off.""

Well, well, well.

Had Blake been wielding a scatter-gun as some folks call it, he might have been on top of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
""He spotted the cat at close quarters, but missed it with his 458 when it charged.
He put his hand across his face just as it pounced on him and it sunk its teeth into his forearm.
Before they had set out Blake had had given his tracker his 45 hand gun as a back-up and at this point the tracker jumped forward, stuck it into the cats ribs and pulled the trigger. The only sound they heard from the gun was a click as the round failed to go off.""

Well, well, well.

Had Blake been wielding a scatter-gun as some folks call it, he might have been on top of the situation.

Equally, had he not missed with his .458 he'd have been on top of the situation and of course, any firearm can misfire whether it be rifle, shotgun or handgun........ it's the ammo that's at fault, not the type of firearm.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Doesn't really matter if its tall grass or not.
You shoot a rifle you know and shoot best. Its not the time to borrow your buddies super duper semi auto cat stopper that you've never shot before. A Shotgun with anything else but slugs is for bird shooting. An extra pair of clean underpants in your pocket is also in order.

Follow this chaps advice. The PH's I have known who have been scratched by Leopard had used a shotgun.

I'm no authority, but when I hunted leopard in Zambia years ago, my PH had a short Mossberg 10 ga. semi-auto with I believe buckshot. At that time he said he was one of only two PHs he knew that had never been clawed -- and the other had gotten it that year.

It was a long and interesting story -- too long for here.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
""He spotted the cat at close quarters,""


Had Blake been wielding a scatter-gun as some folks call it, he might have been on top of the situation.

Just how much "scattering" would you expect at close quarters ? If the shot groups tightly then one might as well have used a proper rifle.

Originally posted by fujotupu:
""He spotted the cat at close quarters,""


Had Blake been wielding a scatter-gun as some folks call it, he might have been on top of the situation


For what it's worth : when Blake found and despatched the cat the following day he used a borrowed ten gauge shotgun.

quote:

Originally posted by R.Jolly:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
""He spotted the cat at close quarters,""


Had Blake been wielding a scatter-gun as some folks call it, he might have been on top of the situation


For what it's worth : when Blake found and despatched the cat the following day he used a borrowed ten gauge shotgun.

No doubt about it , they do sometimes work.

quote:

Just how much "scattering" would you expect at close quarters ? If the shot groups tightly then one might as well have used a proper rifle.

The choice of choke is a paramount factor in the determination of shot pattern and shotguns which have factory-set chokes may or may not perform to satisfaction for following up on a wounded Leopard.
Picking up 'any old 12gauge' that comes to hand may not be a wise move.

One way to find out is try at say 5 different distances from 12 - 25ft from the muzzle, observe the pattern and know the critical distance for that particular s/gun.

Any distance closer than 12 feet would make for the target to be hung at head height and you can practice frontal neck/chest shots - he's normally airborne by then

My 12gauge (24"barrels - single selective trigger) comes with extension chokes which comprise the entire range from 'Cylinder' to 'Extra Full'.

On such adventures I usually choke my first barrel at 'Full' and the second at 'Improved Cylinder'. ...... No complaints from the recipient and never had one back for a third helping.

When tracking a wounded Leopard don't count on finding him out in the open; more than likely it will be within the densest tangle of undergrowth which offers him refuge and by the time you see him, which will not be further than 30ft, he's been eyeballing you long before.

Please don't let me brainwash anyone to use a 12gauge loaded with grape-shot; just stick to the rifle you shoot most comfortably, have fun and hope for the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Anjin:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Doesn't really matter if its tall grass or not.
You shoot a rifle you know and shoot best. Its not the time to borrow your buddies super duper semi auto cat stopper that you've never shot before. A Shotgun with anything else but slugs is for bird shooting. An extra pair of clean underpants in your pocket is also in order.

Follow this chaps advice. The PH's I have known who have been scratched by Leopard had used a shotgun.

I'm no authority, but when I hunted leopard in Zambia years ago, my PH had a short Mossberg 10 ga. semi-auto with I believe buckshot. At that time he said he was one of only two PHs he knew that had never been clawed -- and the other had gotten it that year.

It was a long and interesting story -- too long for here.

I think I know the story. I think you will find he is talking about the PHs working for that particular company not regionally.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by R.Jolly:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
""He spotted the cat at close quarters,""


Had Blake been wielding a scatter-gun as some folks call it, he might have been on top of the situation


R.Jolly,

The really does sound like if he just shot anyhow in the general direction he might have hit the cat.

Dunno and I never been charged by an enraged Leopard at close quarters.

I don't think anyone will be able to hit a leopard charging from close- unless they are very lucky-shot gun or no shot gun.

Cazador2,

The DVD was very interesting indeed. Apparently after the testing was done Lou Hallamore ordered a set of barrels with 3" chambers for his Side by Side shoty! The difference between 2 3/4" and 3" is very noticeable!

A real eye opener was the footage of PH Mark Young following up a wounded leopard. I think it was the second day when he finally made contact with the three legged leopard. On seeing it at lying facing him at 8 paces to let rip. The cat THREE LEGGED cat promptly launched so quickly that could not get off the second shot! The time from the shot to contact was .7 of a second, 8 paces!!! This is from a standstill from a weakened leopard on THREE LEGS!
Those that have experienced know how fast it happens. Far far too fast even contemplate your starfish to start operating.

Who's right in the end ?? There are two schools of thought and there are some that who swing both ways...

The likes of Robin Hurt and Danny McCallum and many others ONLY use rifles.

Gerhard Miller now uses a Krieghoff 500. He's use all sorts in the past and swears by a 10gauge. Even a 44 Mag :-)

Simon Evans is strictly a shotgun man.
Clive Eaton in the Botswana use shot guns to great effect. He used to many many leopards.
Luke Blackbeard also prefers a shotgun, even Drilled one using number 6's once that I know of.
John Coleman is also a shotgun for Leopard man.
Michel Mantheakis is a shotgun for leopards.
Paddy Curtis used a shotgun and still will but has since started using 375 or 470.
Luke Samaras is a shotgun man.
Fujotupo is also

Who can really go upto any of these and tell them they're wrong or they're foolish??

All things being equal with a shotgun, ammo is extremely important and distance is absolutely critical! 10 yards is too far according to those that experienced in using them..

There is no rewind button... Whatever you're using and whatever you're shooting at make the shot COUNT!

barrels with 3" chambers..

Wowo, The above is a great post and yields some good information. Still I’m on the side of a double rifle for that purpose, but if I was required to use a shotgun it would only be used on Leopard, and it would be a sawed off double barreled 10 ga with about 16 or 18 inch barrels, and I wouldn’t even attempt it on a wounded LION!

................................................Just my opinion, and worth exactly what the reader paid for it!
......................................................................

I don't know why the discussion of shotguns on cats generates such controversy, but if you consider the effective range of a shotgun on a charging cat, the shot spread is only marginally better than a rifle shot. However, it's sorta tough to shoot a wounded cat at 45+ yards with a shotgun.

The only time I would be around a PH following up on a wounded cat with a shotgun is if I'm holding the camera from the safety of a car. It could make for a great video and at least his next of kin would know exactly how he died.

Opus1,

No offence but MOST experienced PH's would have you in the vehicle anyhow, on a wounded follow up. Particularly if its your first rodeo or your relatively new to the game .
Another personal preference is the size of the troupe in the follow up. Personally the less the better, bare minimum, 2 guns 3 MAX. Less chance of being caught in the crossfire and also better chance of drawing a direct charge which is easier to deal with than shooting a crossing target. Less people to obliterate sign or tracks and less people to watch out for.
Cats are predators and hunt everyday, they will pick off the straggler which invariably happens on a long and difficult follow up. Cats absolutely know when your guard is down and to attack, the timing of which is precise.
I was taught to two ALWAYS have both hands on the weapon (Danny McCallum used to say point with your lips!!!)and ALWAYS have the barrels tracking your eyes. Two things here. It happens SO fast that every micro second you can gain in critical and secondly many charges are launched when eye contact is made. Hence the vital importance of the former point.

Going after a winged chui the odds are about even or even less

my 10 thebe's worth

Been there and done that. I agree that less is more in follow up. I am more frightened of trackers with rifles than a wounded cat.

You can basically walk within a few feet of a dead cat in the grass and not see it. It can cause quite a fright followed by a lot of nervous laughter. So walking up on a wounded cat generally causes quite a fright followed by a lot of shooting and a lot of screaming. Too many guns is a liability.

A 3 1/2" 12 gauge has 18 00 pellets vs. the 9 pellets in a 2 3/4". Twice the smack.

I use a 12ga 2 3/4" and 4 buck on coyotes (Yea I know not a leopard). They go down like having been hit by a truck even with only a few pellets actually striking.

Mark