This caveat is added to temper the following stuff... Gracy, has acted quite professionally after the first foul-up. I probably should have waited 24 hours to post:

I had the most interesting discussion with Shawn of Gracy Travel a moment ago. With all the changes by the Tanzanian Gov't about fees, I was trying to cut my expenses some by traveling at a different time.

I called Shawn (who is quite a pretty thing, btw), and discovered that the ticket she sold me protects her commission by charging me extra for the priviledge. It is a complicated scheme with some smoke an mirrors, but her (Gracy's) contract calls for a cancellation penalty of $600 and/or a change fee of $275 dollars (but only if there is a "contract" ticket available). This day, there being no such "contract" tickets (albeit, there are many "published rate" tickets at the lower price), Shawn declined to help.

Here is todays scenario:

I needed to cut three days from my safari. Published rates now on line to Dar from my home are less than $2k. To get that flight under the Gracy scheme, I must pay a fee of $600 to cancel, then buy the ticket myself, or I have the option to pay a change fee of $275 and buy another ticket that protects Gracy's commission, but, alas, no "contract" tickets are available.

If I had bought a ticket that didn't protect Gracy's fees, and which Gracy will sell, if you know to ask, I would have had the option of a small change fee and the ticket would be good for a year towards another trip to the same location at the published rate at the time of change.

I'm not saying that Gracy had done anything wrong. It's just not always the best idea to deal with someone whose interest is protecting themselves first instead of their clients.

What really ticks me off is that I had the option of buying a published fare months ago at a rate less than that which Gracy quoted and which is infinitely cheaper to change, but I was assured by them that "their" ticket had more options... which is kind of true... true, at least, in that Gracy gets their money coming and going...

I would have never written this except that Shawn encouraged me to do so. The lady can have quite the sharp tongue. I know she is well known for service. I guess she is just having a bad day with all the Tanzanian stuff causing her to re-arrange the world.

Make no mistake. I know the vagaries of airline ticket pricing. They throw bones or something. When you buy a ticket, a week later a fare may change up or down dramatically and I can live with that... but that's not what happened here.

Interesting. So, what questions should I ask when dealing with a travel agent, so that this comes to light really early on in the conversation?
Peter.

About the only reason I can think of to use a travel agent these days is to help you rearrange your schedule in the event Mr. Murphy rears his ugly head. Is there some benefit I am missing here?

If there is a change in your ticket, another ticket is issued. Don't they get a commission on the new ticket, which would seemingly offset the loss of anything on the old ticket?

In the past, I've had to change two of my flights booked with Gracy, and did not understand the charges until now. Thanks for the information. It would be interesting to hear from some of our other booking agents regarding this issue.

From the instant you book with Gracy, if you buy what they suggested that "protected" me, their commission is a done deal. At least according to Shawn.

From personal experience I can only add that Doug Gray @ Gracy has done an excellent job for me in the past. He took care of many details for me and when my opportunity came about to hunt Lion, he went to the top of SAA's management to get my flight changed. It cost me nothing more. Personally, I wouldn't leave the country without someone I could call in case of an emergency. Trying to sort out problems while on safari with the airlines would be a nightmare. I am familiar with the "service fees" Judge speaks of, but not all agents charge the same or as much I should say. It pays to check around but you won't have to search much further than our own membership. Good hunting, LDK
PS: Judge, I hope you can work out something that fits your situation better. Best of luck on your hunt!

quote:

It's just not always the best idea to deal with someone whose interest is protecting themselves first instead of their clients.

Seloushunter

With all the unexpected changes going on in Africa, it may be prudent to book through an agency like Gracy Travel. Very difficult to solve a ticket mess or flight cancellation on safari sitting in the bush.

Also the meet-greet service was very helpful in JoBerg and that is an extra.

Also, there seems to be a pecking order in tickets when a flight is overbooked. My son has been asked to leave several flights during the holidays, a time when mayor overbooking occurs. He found out the the internet tickets did not have the same priority, or a least that is what he was told as he was kicked off these flights. Now he books through an agent.

Dak

For those of you who are unsure how airlines policy on changes and cancellation works I trust this will help.

Once you have purchased a ticket, whether it be online, a normal published fare or a discounted contract ticket, fare rules come into effect that govern cancellation and change penalties.

Most tickets do allow a change by paying a penalty, however, the problem is always seat availability as any change has to be made in the same inventory class as originaly booked. If the same inventory class is not available then the change fee plus any fare difference must be paid.

There is no international airline, that I am aware of, that allows you to downgrade a fare once you have purchased the ticket. This being the case if an airline puts a lower fare into the market after you have already purchased your ticket, it will require that you cancel the original reservation and refund the ticket you are holding, less any cancellation penalties, make a new reservation and purchase a new ticket at the lower fare. The airline does not allow you to use the original space held on the flight, a new reservation must be made to make use of any new fares.

Also note that any changes to a ticket prior to travel requires that the new reservations made must adhere to the fare rules of the original ticket purchased.

Most fares that you find online are non-refundable so make sure you read all the rules and regulations before purchasing the ticket.

The same goes when using a travel agent, ensure you are fully aware of the penalties before you purchase.

Steve Turner
Vice President

Makes about as much sense as charging me $50 to $200 to use my frequent flier miles.

Well folks:

Everyone has bad days. I caught Shawn on one. I'm sure that I was shorter than I needed to be also. We, with Steve's help, have agreed to disagree, but more importantly, inquire into alternatives that may help with my travel needs.

I am quite convinced that I'm getting good service for Gracy and am glad that I did use a travel agent. Just a bump in the road. If all of us were perfect, what a boring world it would be.

In this day and age, travel agents are a waste of time and money.

I've never used a travel agent and I have circled the globe more times than I can imagine in these 32 short years on this rock called earth.

It always sucks to be on the wrong end of a "scheme"....nothing worse than when a trusted individual hides behind smoke and mirrors for his or her personal gain.....

Judge,

I really don't understand what you are griping about. You booked a ticket. You want to cancel. There are fees to cancel.

If you are traveling domestic the same thing happens all the time if you book yourself.

The airline gives you a credit minus a cancellation fee, or if you simply want to change your flight there is a fee associated with that on almost every airline unless you are flying standby.

Even Southwest charges to confirm over the phone. (sometimes they confirm at the ticket counter if the flight is really open).

I can't understand what you are upset about. You book, You change, You pay. Why is this Gracy's fault, and how are they not servicing you?

Are you saying that for $275.00 they won't change your ticket to get you back 3 days earlier? Or are you upset because the fares are cheaper now?(Which everyone that books a ticket early runs the same risk that fares could go up or down at a later date)

The issue was:

quote:

I needed to cut three days from my safari. Published rates now on line to Dar from my home are less than $2k. To get that flight under the Gracy scheme, I must pay a fee of $600 to cancel, then buy the ticket myself, or I have the option to pay a change fee of $275 and buy another ticket that protects Gracy's commission, but, alas, no "contract" tickets are available.

If I had bought a ticket that didn't protect Gracy's fees, and which Gracy will sell, if you know to ask, I would have had the option of a small change fee and the ticket would be good for a year towards another trip to the same location at the published rate at the time of change.

I'm not saying that Gracy had done anything wrong. It's just not always the best idea to deal with someone whose interest is protecting themselves first instead of their clients.

What really ticks me off is that I had the option of buying a published fare months ago at a rate less than that which Gracy quoted and which is infinitely cheaper to change, but I was assured by them that "their" ticket had more options... which is kind of true... true, at least, in that Gracy gets their money coming and going...

The answer was:

quote:

Once you have purchased a ticket, whether it be online, a normal published fare or a discounted contract ticket, fare rules come into effect that govern cancellation and change penalties.

Most tickets do allow a change by paying a penalty, however, the problem is always seat availability as any change has to be made in the same inventory class as originaly booked. If the same inventory class is not available then the change fee plus any fare difference must be paid.

There is no international airline, that I am aware of, that allows you to downgrade a fare once you have purchased the ticket. This being the case if an airline puts a lower fare into the market after you have already purchased your ticket, it will require that you cancel the original reservation and refund the ticket you are holding, less any cancellation penalties, make a new reservation and purchase a new ticket at the lower fare. The airline does not allow you to use the original space held on the flight, a new reservation must be made to make use of any new fares.

Is it just me, or is there a bridge missing somewhere to link the two sides?

Lightning:

In this day and age, there is no reason to pay a travel agent a premium over the published price unless you get a premium therefor.

I sought my premium (service) because of a situation over which I had no control.

I called Gracy twice... the first time was not fun for me or Gracy. The second call, I got great service and the effort (be it successful or not) to help that shows that Gracy deserves the great reputation it has.

I'm quite aware of the regulations concerning cancelations (re-read my posts). In fact, way back when I practiced law in S.C. and airlines first quit paying commissions, I defended a travel agent over claims that clients were "over-charged" when the vagaries and bone rolling ended up in lower prices. Neither had anything to do with my complaint. It had to do with servicing my querry.

Jim is correct. There was a disconnect between what I was asking for and what Gracy believed what I was asking for. Either I got the mumble out of my mouth, or Gracy got the wax out of their ears, but we both know now what is reasonable to expect and Gracy is even going the second mile.

Like I said, I'm not perfect and Gracy knows how to fix problems. Bwanaphile is a wonder, though. Maybe I should buy tickets through him. He is really bright and informed.

Judge,

I recently had to change a flight coming back from Mauritus with my wife. she was quite ill so I asked what the fee was to Upgrade to business. It was something like $400 each but Emirates had no more seats , so I was told to go to Air Mauritus to see what they had on the same flight they were sharing.

AM said the same thing so I gave them my coach tickets t upgrade, and they said they couldn't upgrade E-Tickets. I had to buy two new tickets two more lots of taxes etc... That was $800 each..... Same fight same seats same everything!!

So much for saving paper and the rainforests!! I could have planted a fair few trees for the extra money but I wrote it off as one of those things. The wife was comfortable and that saved me some ear-ache and I got some sleep!! Bottom line is I'd spend a lot of time angry these days if I worried about all the raw deals we get when buying stuff..

Did you ever get clients querying your fees when you were practicing law? "How much to write a letter?!?!?!?!"

I hope you enjoy your safari.
Rgds,
FB

quote:

Originally posted by Steve_Gracy_Travel:
For those of you who are unsure how airlines policy on changes and cancellation works I trust this will help.

Once you have purchased a ticket, whether it be online, a normal published fare or a discounted contract ticket, fare rules come into effect that govern cancellation and change penalties.

Most tickets do allow a change by paying a penalty, however, the problem is always seat availability as any change has to be made in the same inventory class as originaly booked. If the same inventory class is not available then the change fee plus any fare difference must be paid.

There is no international airline, that I am aware of, that allows you to downgrade a fare once you have purchased the ticket. This being the case if an airline puts a lower fare into the market after you have already purchased your ticket, it will require that you cancel the original reservation and refund the ticket you are holding, less any cancellation penalties, make a new reservation and purchase a new ticket at the lower fare. The airline does not allow you to use the original space held on the flight, a new reservation must be made to make use of any new fares.

Also note that any changes to a ticket prior to travel requires that the new reservations made must adhere to the fare rules of the original ticket purchased.

Most fares that you find online are non-refundable so make sure you read all the rules and regulations before purchasing the ticket.

The same goes when using a travel agent, ensure you are fully aware of the penalties before you purchase.

Steve Turner
Vice President

SEE! These are the reasons you don't book your own travel through any airline, especially in today’s travel climate, and through other countries! NOTE my post in the quoted below "BOOKING YOUR OWN TRAVEL", and I was working for the largest airline in the world at that time.

quote:

The only flight I ever booked myself was a disaster! I had a plane break down in Ewr, and ended up having to fly back to D/FW, spend the night, fly to LAX, to get a flight out to Heathrow, and connect with a flight out of there to Lusaka, Zambia, spend the night again, and out the next day, to fly to Indola, Zambia to get a flight into Mfuwe, for the PH to pick me up, four days of hunting lost, before I got into camp! Never Again! I flew 6,000 miles before I got out of the states!

"HELLO!.... IS THIS GRASY TRAVEL?"

quote:

I'm not saying that Gracy had done anything wrong

I am not sure why JudgeG is getting so much heat. Perhaps you guys knew all this. I did not. What I took away is that you should know going in, what the deal is. The travel agent is in business to make money. In some cases they can help you, in other cases they can't. On my one trip to Africa I used Kathi and she was very helpful. On another occasion when I wanted to go to Israel I tried using Kathi but without success. Perhaps she was too busy. Having said all that, there is STILL a contradiction. One person says that internet based ticketing is "lower priority" while Steve says that once ticketed, all are equal at least when it comes to cancellations and changes. Can someone clarify?
In MacD37's case above:
HELLO!.... IS THIS GRASY TRAVEL
I am honestly not sure how any travel agent could have helped ie. the real issue is how much knowledge or inside contacts can they bring to bear? If flights are cancelled then they are cancelled! If there are no seats, then there are no seats!
Peter

While I have only had the opportunity to personally use Gracy Travel one time, I have had the pleasure of dealing with Shawn (Ms. Briggance if you will – at least I think that is how it she spells it…) over there a couple of times (not as often as I would like – as Judge stated she is not at all unfortunate looking!!!). The first time I had any dealing with her was face-to-face at DSC and she struck me as one of the most pleasant, professional women I had ever met, even though every hung-over, dirty old man in Dallas spent most of their time at Gracy’s booth trying to look down her shirt (me included, I am just not that old – but Lord was I ever hung-over!). She arranged travel for my brother and I from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Harare, Zimbabwe and back and our trip could not have gone better. Why she even put us in the exact seats my brother requested for each of our 6 flights we had to make during the trip. She sent us an information pack that should have certified us as Master’s level Zimophiles (is that even a word?). All in all – she did an excellent job and I couldn’t have been happier with her or the service provided through Gracy travel.

The second time I had dealings with her was when I called to inquire about tickets to Australia. I told her what I wanted to do and that I was just look at the feasibility of it and needed a cost for tickets, travel time, etc, etc, etc. Now, this was almost two years after the trip to Zim and she remembered me, asked about my trip to Africa and how did go, was I happy with everything she had done etc. Within a few minutes she was back on the phone to me to give me the rundown on Australia. I didn’t book and she didn’t seem to be at all put out, given the time she had spent on the phone with me or researching a trip I didn’t even take.

Third time dealing with her was when my brother and his family arrived in Harare recently and their luggage didn’t. We all know how frustrating that can be. And from Harare, communication is hit and miss at best. So I took the task of trying to track down their luggage from this side. I was having absolutely no luck, I even went back to the airport to try and get some answers from the airline – no dice. So I threw my hands up and I called Shawn, on a Sunday. I didn’t figure I would hear back from here at all really – I mean I wasn’t her client. I hadn’t booked with her. Well, what happened? She called me back, got the info, went to work and within an hour knew where the bags were and told me when they should be arriving in Harare. And you want to know something – she was right…

So at any point that I am going to be booking a trip anywhere that requires travel outside of the US, I can assure you of one thing – Shawn will have made those arrangements for me, no matter what chunk of commission she takes.

But then that is just me, my experience, and my opinion of her, which as you all know, if put with .75 cents – will buy you a cup of coffee in a diner somewhere.

Brian

I am happy with Kathi, this spring I had her book a domestic flight giving her all the info re flights etc. she said why don't you just book on line and save my $25 per ticket comm., I said all the times you have helped me out (a one night room in Vic Falls how much commission in that just one example) in the past, you are going to get all my booking in the future, the h*ll with the people in Tx.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
[QUOTE]In MacD37's case above:
HELLO!.... IS THIS GRASY TRAVEL
I am honestly not sure how any travel agent could have helped ie. the real issue is how much knowledge or inside contacts can they bring to bear? If flights are cancelled then they are cancelled! If there are no seats, then there are no seats!
Peter

The flight wasn't cancelled, it broke down,It hit a Pelican on landing, breaking a flap servo motor,and none was available in the USA and had to wait for parts to come from England the naxt day, and if I'd had an agent, they might have been able to get me out the same day from someplace else. This was before any inter-net booking being available, and the only place British Airways had another seat was two days away out of LAX on the other end of the country, and I could see New York from the EWR airport. I could have gotten a seat on the Super Sonic the next morning out of EWR, with only a $3000 up grade!

The flights into Zambia, do not fly daily, and connect in Lusaka up to Mfuwe, so now I 'm out of sequence haveing to spend the night in three places on the way to my camp. Add in TODAY'S climate, when traveling with firearms, and you need someone who knows what they are doing, if changes in routing are needed!

IMO, a good travel agent is worth his weight in gold!

Guess I struck the wrong (or more likely the right) cord huh Ernest? Sorry, no tickets to sell you and I am clearly not "bright and informed" as I dont understand your position and the rationale you employ to support that position. What do you mean when you say "I sought my premium (service) because of a situation over which I had no control"? You were forced to buy teh ticket with Gracy??

I have been bailed out of trouble so many times over the years by Gracy Travel that I shudder at using anyone else..I was in camp in Tanzania when I got word that my mother was dieing and I didn't have much time, Steve got me home almost overnight, and I will never forget that. He saved all of Saeeds USA clients about $2000 each two years going over all other quotes..He has solved so many problems for my clients over the years that I cannot imagine using anyone else. Several clients have advised me they had their own booking agents and insisted on using them and in both cases they ended up in Holland without gun permits, calling me madder than a wet hen, I could not help them at that point, their travel had to do that.

Gracy Travel folks are very familiar with African travel and they are the number one travel agency for hunters. I have heard of complaints on them but when you deal with the public you can bet your going to have complaints, at least in the real world...

I give Gracy 5 stars....

I do consider Judge Gs post a positive, as well as Steves post, and it gives all of us information that we need to know.

But be advised if you book your own flights then you are on your own, and I have seen so many problems from this that I advise otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanahile:
It always sucks to be on the wrong end of a "scheme"....nothing worse than when a trusted individual hides behind smoke and mirrors for his or her personal gain.....

Bwanahile: Even a meathead like me saw through this veiled attempt and dredging up crap from the past that have no bearing on the subject at hand and for that matter WRONG anyway.

Why don't you just come out and say what's really on your mind? jorge

I think any hunter that is a novice to traveling with guns and traveling to Africa or going to a new country and using an unfamiliar route is well served by using an agent. With all the different regs in different countries it is almost impossible to be as informed as an agent that deals with this each day. Ask an agent about some of the nightmares people get into with on-line tickets. You may get a cheap fare but you'll get no travel advise which could be invaluable. I use agents(must be Africa and gun savvy) and highly recommend them to clients.

Mark

I have used Shawn at Gracy travel for three trips to Zimbabwe, the last one my wife went also.

All the arangements, seats etc have worked out perfect.

She has been very easy to deal with and there have been no problems.

I like to be able to make one phone call and get all my travel arangements DONE.

No muss no fuss and no problems.

I used Gracy for my first trip to Africa in June this year, Steve Turner was my contact. I could not have asked for a better experience. He was first off a very personable man. He busted his **s getting my flights booked using my miles and the dates I needed. He responded promptly to any e-mails. And Gracy's package of information was just great. I will be going back to Africa and I will be calling Gracy when I do.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanahile:
It always sucks to be on the wrong end of a "scheme"....nothing worse than when a trusted individual hides behind smoke and mirrors for his or her personal gain.....

Bwanahile: Even a meathead like me saw through this veiled attempt and dredging up crap from the past that have no bearing on the subject at hand and for that matter WRONG anyway.

Why don't you just come out and say what's really on your mind? jorge

Jorge,

I am actually quite surprised that it took you so long to come running. Very, very predictable. The irony and absurdity of the original post merited a response. You have a guilty conscience as well?

No I just call a spade a spade as it was rather obvious you just couldn't wait to bring up irrelevant crap that was A: Not true and B: irrelevant to the discussion.

But yes I do have a guilty concience now that you mention it. Regardless, try growing a pair next time and just come out and say it instead of tip-toeing around issues, but I suspect the tip-toeing is a way of life with you. jorge

MY apology for changing the subject ...

Before all the recriminations and personal attacks in this thread get out of hand this might cheer us all up !!!!!

Cheers, Peter (-:


Air Botswana Gun Fee

SCI’s office in South Africa is reporting that Botswana Airlines has imposed a new ‘handling fee’ for all rifle and bow cases at a cost of R285.00 (US $40.00) per case per trip. Since this airline does not fall under the purview of any U.S. regulatory agency, there isn’t much lobbying that can be done from Washington, D.C. However, we are looking into the situation and will report back.

Jane and I have booked four trips to africa with Steve at Gracy. Every thing went as planned and when the airlines changed the schedule Steve called and took care of the problem. I even got a refund once when prices dropped. He answers all my e-mails within 12 hours and their rep in Joberg helped us on and off the plane with no charge. If you want service then you pay for it if not there is always the internet.

I've been on three safaris where we've booked air transportation with Debbie Gracy. During each trip something or another came up for one or more travelers requiring a change in itinerary. In every instance Gracy Travel was right on top of things and sometimes got us out of a jam.

I rarely use a travel agent for domestic travel but will always use a competent agent for African travel. There are just too many things that can go wrong or require some sort of intervention and the traveler just can't handle it from a safari camp.

I've paid Gracy a fee for helping me travel using travel miles and thought it was money well spent. It was a complicated itinerary for three people and we probably couldn't have put it together without them. Heck, I doubt we could have even dreamed up the itinerary.

You don't need a travel agent until you really need a travel agent. If you travel enough in Africa, you're going to really need one.

During my safari in Aug-sept of 01, I was stuck in Johannesburg as a result of 9/11. Debby Gracy was on the phone with my wife at all hours and finally re-routed me through Frankfurt & home.

My 05 safari was again handled by her personally and it involved difficult airline ticketing due to bonus miles and the fact my hunting partner was coming from the West Coast. EVERYTHING went without a hitch. THAT was money well spent. jorge

been using gracy for something like 15 years now, to think about using someone else would be - well unthinkable