US Warns Tanzania Over Impact of Serengeti Road

US Warns Tanzania Over Impact of Serengeti Road
By Matthew Lee, Associated Press
Wed Jun 1, 5:06 pm ET

WASHINGTON – The Obama administration said Wednesday it has raised concerns with Tanzania's government about the impact of its plan to build a road through the Serengeti wildlife reserve, which environmentalists say could affect the famed wildebeest migration and threaten endangered species.

The top U.S. diplomat for Africa, Johnnie Carson, said he brought the matter up in meetings with top Tanzanian officials in late April and that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton could revisit the topic when she visits the country this month. Clinton is expected in Tanzania next week as part of a three-nation African tour focused on trade and development that will also include Zambia and Ethiopia.

"We are fully aware of the concerns that have been raised in this country and in other countries about the environmental impact that the trans-Serengeti road will have on the very large, spectacular and almost unique migration of animals from the Serengeti up to the game parks in Kenya," said Carson, the assistant secretary of state for African affairs.

He told reporters that Tanzanian officials, including President Jakaya Kikwete and his foreign minister were also "clearly aware" of concerns about the road and are trying to "address them in the most appropriate fashion."

"They know the value of the wildlife, the importance of the Serengeti, they have no desire to destroy that, but they are also looking for ways to stimulate economic development of parts of the country," Carson said. "We do discuss it with them. It is an issue that has been brought to our attention and we have, in fact, brought it to the attention of the Tanzanian government."

Environmentalists say the road will jeopardize the two million wildebeests and zebra who migrate in search for water from the southern Serengeti north into Kenya's adjacent Masai Mara reserve. The road, they warn, will lead to the downward spiral of an irreplaceable ecosystem.

Concerns about the road emerged earlier this year when an environmental impact study on the proposed road was leaked. The report found that the project "may impact the migration of the wildebeest and this would diminish the unique value of the Serengeti as a world heritage site."

The study also said that endangered black rhinos could be negatively affected. Conservationists say that road collisions and deaths will increase dramatically.

Kikwete says the road will spur development. He says it won't be paved and won't hurt the park or its famed wildlife.

Carson said that despite concerns about the road, Tanzania remains a solid partner and friend of the United States.

"Tanzania is a model development partner. It is a strong multiparty democratic state. It is one of our strongest partners in the development field and we are pleased to be going there," he said of Clinton's upcoming visit. "This is a friend of the United States and a stable partner."

The road is part of a planned 260-mile route between Arusha, near Mount Kilimanjaro, and Musoma, on Lake Victoria. Tanzania says the road is needed to connect the country's west with commercial activity on the eastern coast.

Copyright © 2011 Yahoo! Inc.

The day that road is built...will mark the beginning of the end for African wildlife as we have known it.

Lane, is it really any concern to the US Government. How would we like a foreign nation telling us where to build or not to build a highway. The trans Alaskan highway did not bring doom to the wildlife of Alaska. As stated this highway is to be a non paved highway.

Maybe they need better roads to move poached ivory and rhino horn? Just sayin'

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Lane, is it really any concern to the US Government. How would we like a foreign nation telling us where to build or not to build a highway. The trans Alaskan highway did not bring doom to the wildlife of Alaska. As stated this highway is to be a non paved highway.

Ed,

Don't disagree at all...was just stating a fact...hate to see it happen. But...Tanzania ain't no Alaska neither.

If migrations are the real objection to this road, the road could be closed during the migration.
A dirt road isn't goind to stop anything from crossing.

Lane, it ain't no Alaska but Alaska is probably the nearest thing we got and some would think just as grand. I guess it is the libertarian in me.

I think the worst effect of the road would be the opening of a large area to grazing, homesteading, poaching, etc.

Whoa, it is a road thru a game reserve, sort of like the roads thru Yellowstone etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Whoa, it is a road thru a game reserve, sort of like the roads thru Yellowstone etc.

Die - I really won't go into the WHOLE thing as it will simply take way too long to explain. But to so lightly compare a road through the Serengeti to a road through Yellowstone or Alaska, or anywhere else in NA. Is to not know Africa, her people, their way of life, their lack of concern for the Flora/Fauna, and the HUGE negative implications it would have to both, that explaining all of it would not likely do any good.

Do you really think the "road" itself is the issue? Or could it be all the evils that will be so much more easily facilitated, because of the road? The "disruption" of the migration, is the very least of the potential problems that will follow behind the construction of the Serengeti road. Africa is NOT the USA, and this will NOT be the same as a road through Yellowstone!

I appreciate your "libertarian" views, believe me I do. But Lane's original message is spot on, should the road be given approval.

quote:

Do you really think the "road" itself is the issue? Or could it be all the evils that will be so much more easily facilitated, because of the road? The "disruption" of the migration, is the very least of the potential problems that will follow behind the construction of the Serengeti road. Africa is NOT the USA, and this will NOT be the same as a road through Yellowstone!

Exactly!!!

First the road. Then the masses walking down it. Then driving and grazing of cattle along it. Then the small colonizations. Then animal/human conflict. Then no more animals...simple progression of things in Africa...watched it many times. The road will be the beginning of the end.

BTW...I am Libertarian too...that is why I said I really couldn't disagree with what you said Ed.

The first law of african wildlife preservation:

Keep the bloody Africans away from the bloody wildlife!

quote:

Originally posted by SG Olds:
The first law of african wildlife preservation:

Keep the bloody Africans away from the bloody wildlife!

Bingo!!!

Well gentlemen personally I have never hunted in Tanz and probably never will so I don't have a dog in this "fight" if you will. I just don't like our "US" attitude in matters like this.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Well gentlemen personally I have never hunted in Tanz and probably never will so I don't have a dog in this "fight" if you will. I just don't like our "US" attitude in matters like this.

Die - I agree with you! Generally the U.S., especially the USFWS is always sticking its nose where it does NOT belong.

Not just Tanzania, but Africa as a whole, is a different story in some cases, in IMO. Unfortunately, Africans have the self-control of a bunch of 6 yr olds turned loose in the candy store. They just can't stop themselves. When many of your own govt officials/game scouts are responsible for the poaching problems/ivory trade/cattle encroachment in the first place, surely the common man cannot be expected to follow the rules either?

I doubt seriously the park rangers in Yellowstone are in cahoots with commercial poaching rings, bear gal bladder traders, and ranchers wishing to graze for free within the park boundaries. The proposed road through the Serengeti certainly will not cause the problems, but it sure would help facilitate em! All with the help of those that are supposedly in charge of defeating these problems? Africa is a place of corruption! Always has been, always will be.

quote:

Originally posted by Brice:
I think the worst effect of the road would be the opening of a large area to grazing, homesteading, poaching, etc.

A law which excludes the introduction of domestic animals and prohibits human settlement in National Parks and Game Reserves is and has been in existence for decades.

One doesn't need to have a road to conduct poaching activities - and quite likely that the same road will also have the necessary road blocks.

Aaron, I just can't agrue with you about the corruption in Africa, just look at Zim etc. My main beef is with our government sticking it's nose into others internal matters. Oganizations like SCI want to put their 2 cents worth into the matter well I say OK.

For those who think that the construction of a road in Tanzania is purely a Tanzanian affair, you are wrong. Almost all road construction in Tanzania is done with money from multi-national or bi-lateral aid agencies. Whether it is European money from the European Development Fund (EDF, by the way the biggest contributor of grant money for infrastructure development in Africa) or the World Bank, or the African Development Bank or the American Millenium Challenge Corporation, they all have a stake and say-so in how the money they manage gets spent. And well they should since it comes principally from us (and by that I mean Europe and USA).

I would also add that there is already an east-west road which cuts through the Serengeti. Fortunately it is not open to commercial traffic and is restricted to park visitors who pay a fee. I think the idea of a dirt road which purports to be built for commercial traffic is preposterous. Tanzania is paving its major road network as fast as developed countries money will let them. A single look at a map of Tanzania reveals that they don't need this road. In Mwanza there is an airport, a railhead to Dar and paved roads leading from Mwanza to Dodoma to Dar. Just what vital Western Tanzania production needs to be linked with what East Coast entity?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by Brice:
I think the worst effect of the road would be the opening of a large area to grazing, homesteading, poaching, etc.

A law which excludes the introduction of domestic animals and prohibits human settlement in National Parks and Game Reserves is and has been in existence for decades.

One doesn't need to have a road to conduct poaching activities - and quite likely that the same road will also have the necessary road blocks.

Fujo - Ya, that law has been in place for decades. But, is it always enforced? The masai and their cattle, are and have been moving in and out for awhile now, correct. What about the Kigosi game reserve, for example? From what I hear from guys with eyes on the ground, settlers have moved in, cattle are rampant, and of course poaching is surely uncontrolled. In a game reserve, where these sort of activities are supposedly outlawed??

You're right, one doesn't need a road to poach. But I do believe the road will make it easier to facilitate all kinds of illegal activities. Will these necessary road blocks be maned by the same Africans that constantly allow and participate in many of these afore-mentioned illegal activities, or are bribed to look the other way, while they go on?

quote:

Posted 08 June 2011 16:24 Hide Post
For those who think that the construction of a road in Tanzania is purely a Tanzanian affair, you are wrong. Almost all road construction in Tanzania is done with money from multi-national or bi-lateral aid agencies. Whether it is European money from the European Development Fund (EDF, by the way the biggest contributor of grant money for infrastructure development in Africa) or the World Bank, or the African Development Bank of the American Millenium Challenge Corporation, they all have a stake and say-so in how the money they manage gets spent. And well they should since it comes principally from us (and by that I mean Europe and USA).

Aaron: WINK has given us all the truth!...its all about a cake made from $$$ and the slices to be shared ...at whose expense?...mainly the wildebeeste and zebra. Other than a few of us, who gives a damn?......not the politicians and those who have a stake, that's for sure!

quote:

A law which excludes the introduction of domestic animals and prohibits human settlement in National Parks and Game Reserves is and has been in existence for decades.

Fujo,

You know as well as I that those laws are in place in just about every country in Africa...yet when I drive around...I see livestock, folks, and small settlements where they are not supposed to be. A road brings money (often illicit), money brings people (often illicit), Native Africans and African wildlife don't mix...unless your goal is to erradicate the wildlife.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Well gentlemen personally I have never hunted in Tanz and probably never will so I don't have a dog in this "fight" if you will. I just don't like our "US" attitude in matters like this.

Ed,

Like I sad before...I don't really disagree.

I just concentrate my efforts for the wildlife.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

A law which excludes the introduction of domestic animals and prohibits human settlement in National Parks and Game Reserves is and has been in existence for decades.

Fujo,

You know as well as I that those laws are in place in just about every country in Africa...yet when I drive around...I see livestock, folks, and small settlements where they are not supposed to be. A road brings money (often illicit), money brings people (often illicit), Native Africans and African wildlife don't mix...unless your goal is to erradicate the wildlife.

Indeed Lane and as you and I well know, all efforts in preventing encroachment, deforestation, introduction of domestic animals into and overgrazing tracts of land set aside for wildlife habitat have proved futile.... almost forgot: the rampant poisoning of lions, leopard, among others.

Some of us who live here have tried to battle it
out at different levels, from village community to the upper echelons of the wildlife Dept, all to no avail (Alan Bunn's most recent post on ivory poaching more or less spells it out).

It is really a sad state of affairs and wouldn't surprise me in the least if Tanzania ends up like Kenya in the not so distant future.

I've made one hunt and photo safari to TANZ....I keep up with African issues....this proposed road can lead to no good outcome!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Do you really think the "road" itself is the issue? Or could it be all the evils that will be so much more easily facilitated, because of the road? The "disruption" of the migration, is the very least of the potential problems that will follow behind the construction of the Serengeti road. Africa is NOT the USA, and this will NOT be the same as a road through Yellowstone!

Exactly!!!

First the road. Then the masses walking down it. Then driving and grazing of cattle along it. Then the small colonizations. Then animal/human conflict. Then no more animals...simple progression of things in Africa...watched it many times. The road will be the beginning of the end.

BTW...I am Libertarian too...that is why I said I really couldn't disagree with what you said Ed.

Absolutely. Kiss that ecosystem good bye.

Fujo - You and Wink are entirely right about the money issue! Who's gonna get paid, and who's paying more? Those in favor of the road, or those opposed to it? The one giving the most wins, so let's hope its the latter of the two.

The whole thing is probably just another scam to fleece the western countries out of yet more billions. Africa is a bottomless rat hole and the people in charge over there know it and play on western arrogance and ignorance. Just look at how Rwanda ripped everybody off over the genocide guilt trip, meanwhile slaughtering everybody in sight in eastern DRC and raping the resources. Of course, they were far from alone in their pillaging. Uganda, the Sudan,Zimbabwe, Burundi, Congo-Brazzaville, Angola, poor little Namibia, the CAR and a few others including Libya got caught up in that horror story, but Rwanda had the US government eating out of their collective hand while slaughtering refugees both in and out of Rwanda.

And the west continues to line up to get screwed. Scamming westerners out of relief money and eco-cash is an East African past time and they're damned good at it.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
The whole thing is probably just another scam to fleece the western countries out of yet more billions. Africa is a bottomless rat hole and the people in charge over there know it and play on western arrogance and ignorance. Just look at how Rwanda ripped everybody off over the genocide guilt trip, meanwhile slaughtering everybody in sight in eastern DRC and raping the resources. Of course, they were far from alone in their pillaging. Uganda, the Sudan,Zimbabwe, Burundi, Congo-Brazzaville, Angola, poor little Namibia, the CAR and a few others including Libya got caught up in that horror story, but Rwanda had the US government eating out of their collective hand while slaughtering refugees both in and out of Rwanda.

And the west continues to line up to get screwed. Scamming westerners out of relief money and eco-cash is an East African past time and they're damned good at it.

Don't forget the EU, they're just as stupid!!

Yeah, I intended to do that by using the term "western". Sweden and the other EU countries blow millions upon millions trying to save the Africans from themselves and the bosses pile it up in their European accounts.

First thing I learned hanging around Nairobi in 1988 is every East African has a sob story, and many are soooo plausible. Now this road thing. The eco-freaks will be all over it. The boys in Dar are rubbing their hands together, anticipating the future...

Since this road would help transportation would it have affect on lowering the cost of hunts in Tanzania?

BOTTOM LINE- AFRICAN POLITICIANS WILL FUCK DONOR NATIONS AND THEIR OWN CITIZENS( AND BY EXTENSION THEIR WILDLIFE) IN A HEARTBEAT FOR THE RIGHT PRICE. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
Yeah, I intended to do that by using the term "western". Sweden and the other EU countries blow millions upon millions trying to save the Africans from themselves and the bosses pile it up in their European accounts.

First thing I learned hanging around Nairobi in 1988 is every East African has a sob story, and many are soooo plausible. Now this road thing. The eco-freaks will be all over it. The boys in Dar are rubbing their hands together, anticipating the future...

Yep!!! Just as jdollar says too, follow the money.

This road will not be the beginning of the end.

That happened over a hundred years ago, when the British built the Lunatic Line.

Or maybe even earlier, when the first East African Arabs broke the first slave and ivory trails through the wilderness.

But this road will hasten the end.

And the end will be worth crying real tears over. I hope my children, living long lives, won't see it, but I fear they will.

What a bloody shame.

quote:

Originally posted by Singleshot03:
Since this road would help transportation would it have affect on lowering the cost of hunts in Tanzania?

No. The road from Arusha to Mto Wa Mbu has already been paved, the road from Mwanza to Dodoma to Dar is already paved (a couple of sections are still under way), the road from Mwanza to Musoma is about to be reconstructed. Getting in and out of northwestern Tanzania is not a problem from just about anywhere in the country and that is the region with the highest priced safaris.

Personally, I don't think this road will ever be built, primarily because the West won't pay for it. The Germans, major contributors to funding and management of the Serengeti National Park, will never let the EU commit funds to it. I don't think the World Bank would touch this hyper-sensitive environmental issue with a ten foot pole. The only real danger is the Chinese, who will fund anything if it gains them some favor with the government in exchange for mineral rights or other concessions. And this is the real problem occuring all over Africa. International aid has always had a mitigating effect on the excesses and irrational decisions of African governments, and the Chinese have given every African government a way to bypass the scrutiny of Western democracies, Western environmental lobbies, Western private businesses and everyone else by funding what the others will not.

Most of us are already aware of Chinese indifference, some would say complicity, on the issues concerning ivory exports and black market poached animal products such as rhino horn. But these are a drop in the bucket when compared to access to mineral rights and other primary raw materials.

And for the most part the West has just stood by and watched, not wanting to compromise their own desire to access the Chinese markets. In that sense the West's stand on the issue is the height of hypocrisy. We are in fact accomplices to the Chinese rape of the African continent, pretending to be innocent bystanders, or by using the false argument (which the Chinese must just adore) that it is an "internal" affair of the country concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:

quote:

Originally posted by Singleshot03:
Since this road would help transportation would it have affect on lowering the cost of hunts in Tanzania?

No. The road from Arusha to Mto Wa Mbu has already been paved, the road from Mwanza to Dodoma to Dar is already paved (a couple of sections are still under way), the road from Mwanza to Musoma is about to be reconstructed. Getting in and out of northwestern Tanzania is not a problem from just about anywhere in the country and that is the region with the highest priced safaris.

Personally, I don't think this road will ever be built, primarily because the West won't pay for it. The Germans, major contributors to funding and management of the Serengeti National Park, will never let the EU commit funds to it. I don't think the World Bank would touch this hyper-sensitive environmental issue with a ten foot pole. The only real danger is the Chinese, who will fund anything if it gains them some favor with the government in exchange for mineral rights or other concessions. And this is the real problem occuring all over Africa. International aid has always had a mitigating effect on the excesses and irrational decisions of African governments, and the Chinese have given every African government a way to bypass the scrutiny of Western democracies, Western environmental lobbies, Western private businesses and everyone else by funding what the others will not.

Most of us are already aware of Chinese indifference, some would say complicity, on the issues concerning ivory exports and black market poached animal products such as rhino horn. But these are a drop in the bucket when compared to access to mineral rights and other primary raw materials.

And for the most part the West has just stood by and watched, not wanting to compromise their own desire to access the Chinese markets. In that sense the West's stand on the issue is the height of hypocrisy. We are in fact accomplices to the Chinese rape of the African continent, pretending to be innocent bystanders, or by using the false argument (which the Chinese must just adore) that it is an "internal" affair of the country concerned.

Wink brings up an excellent point here regarding the Chinese. When I was in the CAR just 6 weeks ago, I was surprised at the number of Chinese business men I saw, and of course I asked about em. The guys I talked to, said the Chinese are up to no good. They are willing to throw loads of money at Africa, in exchange for the things they want, including minerals and wildlife products.

The Chinese are everywhere with huge bribes. And Wink is right. The West will just sit on its hands and watch the debacle occur.

The Chinese [PROC] are moving into Africa in a big way. They need raw material for their industries. They are buying black wattle by the shipload for chopsticks. They have even bought 50% [? it could be 49% or 51%] of Standard Bank of SA. They are baling out Mugabe and there has been much reciprocal visiting between them and the "ruling mob" here, together with the ceremonial signing of lots of fancy beribboned sheets of paper. The soda ash story is a PROC look at raw material. Any fauna or flora, the Chinese will ingest it, either as medecine or to fill their bellies

WINK brought it up first and he is dead on!!! While the "West" still suffers from colonial guilt, the damn Chinks are taking over Africa with no morals toward indigenous peoples (ZIM's cleansing of the cities driven by Chink merchants) or any concern for wildlife----just show them the raw resources they can get and the money flows!

The US and EU allowed the Chinese to ascend to this position by running massive budget and trade deficits that are financed by China. China is the new-age colonial super power and soon the US will be one of the colonies. When a country has to borrow $0.40 of every dollar spent, they cease being masters of their own destiny.

Given the economic destruction the US and the EU have brought on the world in the last decade both have lost the moral imperative to tell Tanzania a pooor democratic nation they can't or shouldn't build a road.

Right or wrong, none of the USA's business.