Please, define these, if you don;t mind, using whatever criteria you want, whether personal experience, recommened, or other-wise...

A "Stopper" rifle/cartridge.

A Dangerous Game Rifle/cartridge.

A rifle/cartridge used for hunting DG.

I sometimes find conflicting views, or misunderstandings, on these.
What is the standard for which each is measured? Thanks. ~~~Suluuq

I have no experience in stoppers but I would think the .470 NE and equivalent .45 calibers are the minimum bores and energy rated cartridges here. Bigger is definitely better here.

Qualifying this with I have never hunted DG, but aspire to someday. A stopper would be any rifle (double or CRF) chambered in a cartridge large enough to obviously stop a charge from a pissed or wounded animal on a semi regular basis probably starting at 458 lott and going up from there. A DGR IMHO not really all that different, still a CRF or Double but smaller chamberings allowed the bottom of which would be in the .375 H&H or .338 Winnie range it would have to be able to consistently take the big and nasties with whichever shot presented itself (and I wouldn't be an advocate of using the low end of the spectrum). And a rifle used to hunt DG, I am not sure why I would want to make a distinction , if I was fortunate enough to have the funds to go on a DG hunt then I damn sure would want to take a rifle chambered in the proper configuration with a more than adequate chambering so that the guy behind me doesn't have to use his "stopper" Some folks will only get to go after DG once in a lifetime Most not even that much so if you are gonna blow your load you better do so with enuff gun just my .02 gabe

Rusty Gunn

We are going to shot the same dead dog again.... but anyway, here is what I learned on this forum over the last 6 month or so:

Stopping Rifle
A perfectly 100% reliable and balanced rifle (fitted to suit the user like a shotgun), that can be shot very accuratly with open sights.
This is to be used in close quaters only, so no "beanfield-rifle" accuracy is needed, but you should be able to easily hit a 4"x4" target out to 50 yards.
Reliable feeding is a must.
Cartridge got to have enough power and big enough frontal area to stop/slow down an ele-bull with a hip-shot by breaking and destroing the heavy bones. Only the best premium solid bullets with prefered speed between 2100 and 2600 fps to be used. (My own rating: starts with .458 Lott/500gr and up.)
Mauser 98 system due CRF or high-end double-rifles advised.

DGR
A 100% reliable and well fitted rifle. Can be scoped using QD-rings, but got to allow wide field of view. Iron sights for backup.
Prefereably 375 H&H and up, depends how much recoil you can safely handle and what animals you ar after. (9,3x62/64/74r could be used but is not legal everywhere.) Cartridge got to be powerfull enough that a solid bullet reaches the brain of an elephant on a well placed frontal brain-shot. Premium solids for elephant, softs/solids for buffalo and hypo, softs for lions and leopards.
Mauser 98 due CRF prefered, big bore doubles can of course be used too.

Have not had a chance yet to hunt africa..... I am going to get delivered my 416 rigby build on a CZ550 next month.

Franz

[ 06-26-2002, 16:12: Message edited by: Daydreamer ]

My definition of a stopper has more to do with the hunter behind the rifle than it does the exact cartridge selected. Actually, there are all sorts of rifles above .375 H&H in caliber that are used every year to stop dangerous game, so the selection is rather narrow though deep.

It's harder to come up with a cool headed rifleman, though, who can shoot with cold blooded precision at high noon with a big caliber on a dangerous game animal. So to heck with the cartridge for a moment....... What about the guy who's pressing the trigger?

AD

See there, some of you guys listen but you just don't hear!!

A 45-70 Marlin carbine at 2400 FPS or more with a 400 gr. cast bullet is the ultimate stopper, I done read it, and I have conceded.

Howsomever ever I still have a bird in my ear chirping, "stopping calibers start at 470 and go up from there." but whats a bird know.

Ray,

You realize that you're going to be quoted without the : gremlin, don't you?

George

GeorgeS
I wouldn't be surprised, but I can handle it...I've been saved, I'm a born again LAF that has to put me into a class all by itself with and IQ of -40.....

You guys have it all wrong. It is the Turkish Mauser that Yosimite Sam used to smack the Camel across the head. "When I said whoa! I mean whoa!" Smack!

Rusty asked what a stopper is...it is that little thing at the bottom of the ice chest that keeps all the cold water from draining off the coldbeer!
You guys all went off on some tangent explaining something he didn't ask for.

Nobody mentions caliber? At this forum? Seems some members are on holiday.

Stopping rifles: 577 and 600. ( only classic calibers, fill in more modern as you like )

DGR or BIG BORES: 450 NE to 470 NE, .416 Rigby.

Medium rifles: anything under, starting ( from top down ) .450/400 3", .404 ??, .375.

Hi, Daydreamer! Why do you have a 416 built on a CZ action? Why don�t you simply buy it? Did you already shoot one? I�m fine with my 9.3x62 and intend to step up to .375. Always one step at a time ...

Hermann

Hermann

When I got over the shock that the 450NE change barrel set wont work with my Tikkas, I decided to get a CZ550 in 416 Rigby. It was to late already to stop DGR fever - had to have it!
I have a doublerifle in 9,3x74r, started hunting with a 9.3x64 Brenecke, so I had to go to the 416.

In the process of simply buying a $700 CZ550 in 416 Rigby, I came across the options Frankonia offers to be added.
So I thought a Rigby magazin (4+1) would be nice, 2nd cross-bolt - sure, barrel band swivel nice too, longer bolt handle with a 1" ball great, polishing the rails it really neads that, removing the set-trigger and adjusting 3.5 lbs trigger would also be nice, and a kick-stop definately helps too....

So I checked with my gunsmith to ask Frankonia to send the CZ550 I saw on JASPOWA convention - because it had a standard straight stock with real nice wood - checked if everything was OK and then ordered it with all the features they offert.

Two months later, my gun came back from Germany (a week ago), the only thing they didn't was the 3 position safety, don't know wy, everything else turned out to be great.

At my gunsmith: "now the bolt has to be jewelled, Pachmayr F990 added and glassbedding." (He had to threw this into the deal instead of lowering the price, so fine!)

But now there is the glass-bedding to do, Gunsmith asked: "what about a buffalo-horn forend cap, maybe a grip-cap from horn too? Got a nice thight black Waterbuffalo from Australia!", "a flip-up corn with warthog ivory?".....
OK its only money so lets do it!

Two minutes later - Gunsmith: "BTW what about the mounts and the scope? EAW XS mounts and a Kahles HELIA C 1.5-6x42 would realy do the trick!" Hmmm, only $1250 for the mount and the scope!? Need it - its just money!

So this is the first NEW gun - I got it customised for me, really doesn't matter if you start with the action or the assembled rifle from the factory, does it?

Ending up spending Euro 3.300,- for my Africa gun - Safari is due to happen in 2003 anyway!
So I had my "Safari of the mind" in 2002 already!

When I finaly have it in my hands I will post some pictures and list the features.

Franz

Come on, guys! This was not about trying to justify the 45-70, I didn't even mention it! This is to clear up what some African hunter folks have been saying, in that it appears they don't all neessarily agree as to what a DGR is, what a Stopper rifle is, and what a hunter's rifle is, who carries what, when can they be interchanged, etc. I was merely asking for it to be cleared up.
Example... the 375 H&H. Most here claim the 375 is not adequate for DG, but it is used the most, and carried by a lot of PH's. In this manner, its a hunter's rifle, a DGR and a stopper rifle, all in one.
~~~Suluuq