In this particular situation, would a .416 Taylor be all that much better than a .375 H&H? Performance wise only, not component or factory ammo availability, ect.

In this situation I would assume the bigger bullet would be better. But was wondering just how much better or how much of a difference there would be between the two.

When in an area where you could bump into Elephant, Buffalo, or Lion, even though not hunting them in particular.
The rifle would have open sights only, Express and Peep.
So range is a moot point.

A .375 H&H loaded with a 300gn bullet @ 2350fps or a .416 Taylor loaded with a 350gn bullet @ 2350fps.
Soft or solid as appropriate. The Taylor load would similar to a modern 10.75x68 (with good bullets).

I know they both could be loaded a good bit faster, but would be loaded as above to keep recoil moderate and be a nice low pressure load. It would be a ladies gun.

I haven't ran a recoil calculation yet, but would guess the recoil in like guns would be somewhat similar though probably a little more in the Taylor.

So, on bigger game with the above loads would there be a noticeable difference on game?
Am I correct about the recoil, or would the Taylor have substantially more recoil loaded as above?

Allen

Questions such as this.....give good men a good reason to have another sip of wiskey..

I would rather load the Taylor to original 404 J specs(400gr at 2125fps). That would have similar recoil and better SD.

I hear that several dangerous animals have been killed with the 404.

Jason

Yes a 400gn bullet @ 2150 would be a good option also.

I would guess that would still keep the recoil in the .375 H&H ballpark.

To me the advantage of the .416 Taylor is it would fit easily in a M98 action and brass would be no problem to find or make.

I know the .416 Rem is good but has more performance than wanted. The Taylor seems like it would do very nicely loaded to the 10.75x68 performance level. Though an with an ever so slightly smaller (dia) bullet.
Plus with the slightly smaller case (than the .416 Rem or 404 J) it should work well for making up a plinking load for fun shooting.

She is interested in a big bore, so was thinking the .416 Taylor might make an easy going big bore for her.

We are both fascinated with the 10.75x68 and it's performance level and history. But the possibility of problems finding brass in the future is a concern.

I appears that the Taylor can be loaded (down) to the same basic performance or power level as the 10.75x68 without potential brass issues in the future.

It seems from what I have read that the 40 calibers hit a bit harder on the bigger stuff.

I am wondering if that will hold true with the lighter loads,
ie. a 350gn @ 2350fps or a 400gn @ 2150fps?

I need to look up some .416 Taylor loads and run them through the recoil calculator and see how they compare.

I guess it gets back to the question will the .416 Taylor gain her much over the .375 H&H to be worth the recoil? Of course we could ask would the .375 H&H gain anything over the 9.3x62! Which her and I have discussed.

She wants to have a rifle and be able to use it well so that she can take care of the situation her self if need be.

Allen

You say its a ladies gun then i will suggest the 375h&h there is something about ladies and a 375 it just works

Your .375 Load is down below 9,3 specifications. It is adequate in a pinch, but not a stopping round.

For elephant and lion the requirements are contradictory - especially in .416. A 400grn FMJ at 2150fps is good ele medicine and better than the .375. A 350grn soft at 2350fps would be a better choice for lion or buff.

In reality, I suspect you would be better off loading a 416 with .350grn for practice and lion/buff and just buying a box of the new Norma African PH .416 Taylor which has the 410grn woodleigh FMJ at 2350fps in case of ele. If you need it for real you are never going to notice the recoil, and the change in point of impact at under 20 yards is going to be insignificant between your regular use loads and the FMJ's for justincase

Hi Ganyana,
Norma African PH in .416 Taylor?!
That's something new to me.

Are Norma tooling up for the Taylor now or...?

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
Hi Ganyana,
Norma African PH in .416 Taylor?!
That's something new to me.

Are Norma tooling up for the Taylor now or...?

You would be amaized at what I know - available in limited quantities from next week -The first order has been for Dubai!!!!

If the decision is to be made between two cartridges that will easily fit into a M98 action, then I would echo the 9.3 X 62 choice. IMHO it has the least recoil (and can be made into a nice trim rifle) for the proven historical results on big game. Also, ammo is available in Southern Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Your .375 Load is down below 9,3 specifications. It is adequate in a pinch, but not a stopping round.

For elephant and lion the requirements are contradictory - especially in .416. A 400grn FMJ at 2150fps is good ele medicine and better than the .375. A 350grn soft at 2350fps would be a better choice for lion or buff.

In reality, I suspect you would be better off loading a 416 with .350grn for practice and lion/buff and just buying a box of the new Norma African PH .416 Taylor which has the 410grn woodleigh FMJ at 2150fps in case of ele. If you need it for real you are never going to notice the recoil, and the change in point of impact at under 20 yards is going to be insignificant between your regular use loads and the FMJ's for justincase

Gosh, I can't believe you didn't recommend the 9.3x62. I kept waiting for it.

Allen,

I guess I don't understand the need in the first place. Is she going to be hunting or just wants something for personal protection? Been reading too many scary African tales?

I wonder where you guys find these gals that can stand up to the recoil from these guns. Makes me feel like a wimp for sure.

I do love the Taylor and use 400 gr. bullets at about 2160 fps for dinking around practice. It still has plenty of recoil, and is a 404 Jeffery in disguise. Though the bullet energy will be about the same as a nominally loaded 375 H&H the Taylor with 400 gr. bullets will have a bigger effect on game even downloaded to 2150 fps.

I guess Ganyana just got done saying all of this already!

---------
I do take it one more step and use a 9.3x62 downloaded as practice for the Taylor.

If it was me I would use a 30-06 for practice and the Taylor for serious practice. The nice thing about the CZ 550 action is that they can be had with/used for the 30-06, the 9.3x62, and the Taylor. And the 458 WM but that is another animal altogether.

---------

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
Hi Ganyana,
Norma African PH in .416 Taylor?!
That's something new to me.

Are Norma tooling up for the Taylor now or...?

You would be amaized at what I know - available in limited quantities from next week -The first order has been for Dubai!!!!

Ah! So you heard it through the grapevine?
Obviously the lines of communication between Zim and Sweden seems to be very fast

Another good cartridge in the making from Ã…motfors, congrats guys, now how is the .450 NE going in the process of being made there ...

And another confusing question of " what to turn a fine M 98 into from the original caliber ....."

IMO, the .416 Taylor is one of the best cartridges to be used in the 98 Mauser, or any standard length action, for general hunting in Africa, and deserves a factory ammo sourse!

Like the 375H&H it's recoil, even in full loads, is not that bad, and I don't, for one minute, think the Buffalo hit with it would be able to tell the difference between the 375H&H and the 416 T.

As Ganyana said in his post, when faced with a sudden need, she will not feel the recoil anyway. Men often make the mistake of thinking a woman can't handle recoil as well as a man. That is non-sense, most women can handle any rifle a man can, and their limiting factor is rifle weight, not recoil. A very heavy rifle is harder for her to hold up to shoot well. However, within reason the lighter a person is, the better they handle recoil, because they roll with the recoil, while the heavy weight absorbs it! There are many women who shoot 470NE double rifles, so a Taylor shouldn't pose a problem.

The 416 T is very interesting to me, and I have several 98 Mauser actions, that I have been wanting to make up rifles on, and the Taylor will be my first I'm sure. .458 Win Mag brass is abundantly available, and .416 bullets are on every gun shop shelf, makeing the 416 Taylor one of the best wildcats from and ease, and performance standpoint. I say, go for it!

I suppose the Taylor is better than a .375 H&H but not by a heck of a lot..I would feel comfortable shooting anything with either one of them, but I would load them both at higher velocity than you indicate. I like the .375 with GS Customs flat nose solids at 2500 FPS and the Taylor the same at 2350 FPS..

For Lion I would use a 350 gr. GS Customs HP in the 416 Taylor and the 350 gr. RN Woodleigh in the .375 H&H, but there are many options.

"There are many women who shoot 470NE double rifles, . . ."

So Ganyana, if you can say, does that mean that in the not to distant future there will be .416 Taylor factory Norma brass also?

Allen

& I guess it also begs the question, will it be the Saami version that was legitimised by A-squared or a std wildcat version. At least the A-squared version will fire in a std wildcat chamber but normally not the other way round. In any case brass will fireform to whatever chamber.
Steve

Allen

In both nickeled cases and regular brass as soon as the initial orders for brass have been fulfilled. Not sure weather it would be black hills, Cabellas or Midway in the US who would hold stocks.

What facinates me is the new technology so that various notable persons can have their name engraved on every case!(at $200 a box but still!)

The Taylor is an excellent caliber in both 375 and 416, but if I owned one today I would simply punch it out th the new Ruger case and be done with it...

Surely the 375 and 416 Ruger will bury the Taylor once and for all!

Ganyana, thanks for the heads up.

Ray, if we do end up building it in .416 Taylor, the main reason for using the Taylor as opposed to a .416 Rem Ruger or the 404 J is the smaller case capacity, as we would only want to basically duplicate the ballistics of the 10.75x68.

I'm 99.9% decided that mine will be in 404 Jeffery and I will have mine loaded a little warmer than what Heather would prefer. I will load in the 2250 to 2350 range with a 400 bullet.

Maybe I going about this wrong.
What we are looking for is preferably something in the 40 cal range. But not with to much velocity and bullet weight
because then the gun needs to be heavier to keep the recoil
reasonable.

Basically we would like to have 10.75x68 ballistics with out the 10.75x68 potential brass issues.

With me having a 404 Jeffery, would it be more practical to build Heather a 404 J also and just load a 350gn bullet @ 2350fps or a 400 @ 2150fps for her?

Can the 404 J easily load down to this level with current powders? How would we be able to easily differentiate between the two loads?

Maybe this would be a better choice than building her a .416 Taylor?

It seems to me that if we can get a 40 cal cartridge in the same general recoil range (with proper) loading, as a .375 H&H would be a plus when it comes to the bigger stuff.

Allen

The 404 is going to require a big action where the Taylor won't.

The reason I have a .416 Taylor, in my way of thinking, is that it gives me a little more punch in areas where dangerous game may be encountered.

The reason I have a .375 H&H, in my way of thinking, is that it gives me flatter trajectory and is better suited for plains game in areas where dangerous game will probably not be encountered.

The reason I have both is that - ummh, I don't know why - I just do.

My .416 Taylor weighs in at a little over 10 lbs unscoped and my .375 is at 11 some lbs scoped so the felt recoil is about the same, which to me is a non-factor for field work.

Namibiahunter

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of the .416 Taylor.
Especially now that Norma is going to be producing factory brass. If for some reason Norma quit making .416 Taylor brass it would still be easy to form from .458 win Mag. But it would be nice to be able to just buy factory brass.

Also since we are not wanting to match the ballistics of the .416 Rigby,Rem or a full bore loaded 404J. The slightly smaller case is really an advantage in this situation.

In a M98 with a drop box mag she can have at least 4 down, easy to get to feed. It would have enough powder capacity to get what ever performance she wants to load up to.

That Woodleigh .416 340gn PP looks like it would be a nice all around bullet loaded to around 2300-2400fps.

Any one used that bullet? What did you think of it and what velocity did you load it to?

namibiahunter, along the same lines, in one of Ganyana's articles in the Nickadu files Ganyana commented on the odds going up a fair bit with a 40 cal over a .375 if the Elephant is right on top of you.
I know, probably not a realistic concern, but comforting none the less.

Allen

Double Tap ammo (www.doubletapammo.com) has five different loads for the .416 Taylor:

300 grain Barnes X
350 grain TSX
400 grain Partition
450 grain Woodleigh soft
450 grain Woodleigh solid

They range in price from $89.99 to $109.99 for 20 rounds........

They must be using the magic powder to get that velocity with a 450 gr. bullet.

Good for them.

Didn't A-Square recently standardize the 416 Taylor? In the lastest Cartridges of the World the Taylor has been moved from the wildcat section to the proprietary listing.

Midway is showing 416T brass from A-S and Quality Cartridge. They also have loaded ammo from A-S and Double Tap. Both brass and loaded ammo are cheaper then 404 J stuff. I'd consider a 416T myself if it wasnt for the 416 Ruger now being official....hard choice.

quote:

Didn't A-Square recently standardize the 416 Taylor?

just recently the latest poop:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/505107539

A 404 Jeff would be better. Hornady will offer factory ammo for the 404 Jeff next year.

Ganyana just made my day! Wish I could add something of value to the conversation, but my only experience is at the range. I can say that I can't feel the difference in recoil between the two, even though my Taylor is at 8.5 pounds and my 375 is a pound heavier.
Bfly