I just got an e-mail from Rowland Ward stating they will be excluded from SCI Reno, but will appear at the Dallas Safari Club convention. Strange, no?

I got the same notice. I am at a loss at why they would do this other than there are "no free hunts" offered by Rowland and Ward to draw bidders at an auction.

Does every exhibitor at SCI Reno offer a free hunt?

Maybe the ROI didn't pencil out.

Wink,

Not everyone offers a "hunt", but you don't get in without paying for a booth space plus extras. When I was there working for Oneida Bows, in addition to the booth fee we had to "donate" a bow all set up to get booth space. Due to the high demand by vendors for a booth in that show and the exposure to the hunting market, SCI can require a high price for booth space plus contingencies. Im not sure about RWard, but if they don't have anything to offer, and the booth space could generate more by bringing in an outfitter/taxidermist/fine art dealer/gun dealer, I can understand why they wouldn't be offered a spot.


Hugh

Sounds more like strong arm extortion to me!

According to the note received from Rowland Ward, they are "excluded" from opening an exhibit, not withdrawing their presence.

As I understand it, it's because SCI see RW as competitors in the record book world....

Still, I'm sure that SCI will still find room for OoA.

Perhaps someone should refer both matters to the SCI ethics committee......

As I recall from the email from RW they (RW) said SCI accused them of sharing revenue with DSC etc.

Here is the actual message from RW


Rowland Ward Press Release

July 2008 – For immediate release



Rowland Ward wishes to advise its customers and supporters that it recently was informed by SCI that, despite our attendance at and support of the past 11 conventions, they will no longer allow Rowland Ward to exhibit at their annual convention in Reno, Nevada. This was not entirely unexpected as the convenor of the previous convention unjustly accused Rowland Ward of being owned in part by and/or sharing its profits with two US organizations. Jane Halse, the managing director of Rowland Ward, wrote to SCI specifically denying these false accusations but, to date, has not received the courtesy of a reply despite a further reminder in this regard.



We naturally regret the decision by SCI as we have never seen ourselves as competitors to them but rather complementary in our support of hunters and hunting worldwide. Rowland Ward will, nevertheless, exhibit at the Dallas Safari Club, NRA, Wild Sheep Foundation and at least one other show in the United States next year.



To better serve our customers and supporters in North America, we have decided to move our current office from Fredericksburg, Virginia, where it has been ably run by Lucinda Lorei for the past six years, to Dallas, Texas where Haskell Stricklen, who worked with Gray Thornton, immediate past Executive Director of Dallas Safari Club, has accepted the task to head up Rowland Ward’s renewed expansion in this region. The move is designed to place Rowland Ward geographically closer to the centre of its current business and we believe that Haskell is the right person, with the right talents, in the right place to help Rowland Ward to implement its current strategic plans.



The office move will take place during August, 2008 and, despite the careful planning that has gone into making the move as smooth and trouble free as possible, we are aware that the best laid plans of mice and men “gang oft aglee†and we would ask you to bear with us if our normal service is not quite up to scratch for a few days during this time.



The official launch date for our new office and showroom in Dallas, Texas will be communicated shortly. We have a number of exciting developments specific to the US market and look forward to communicating these to you.



For any further information please contact:

Richard Flack (Rowland Ward Marketing Director)

rich@rowlandward.com

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Sounds more like strong arm extortion to me!

Precisely!

SCI has been doing this for years to a lot of outfitters from Africa.

Strange really, they talk about "ethics" and they are in bed with people like Our Of Africa!

Whoever is running SCI should be ashamed of themselves.

I know, some would argue that they do some good for us hunters.

But I am afraid I am beginning to think they ave $$ in front of their eyes, forgetting the basics of why they got started!

Sad truth Saeed....

It's the old saying: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

The bigger the association the more they want to play "god". In SA our recent gun laws have put similar powers into the hands of asociations, and the result is "gravy train" mentality.

Ultimately though, the responsibility lies with the ordinary hunter to try keep them honest and true to the original "nobel" aims, especially furthering conservation through utilisation(hunting)

Just means that Dallas will continue to grow. At some point when folks act in a heavy handed way that has a tendency to come back to haunt them. This is not the first that I have heard of SCI giving exhibitors in Reno a hard time. Maybe I need to take my SCI membership dollars and join the DSC.

Last week, I spoke to Lucinda Lorei, who ran Rowland Ward in the US.

Shakari hit the nail on the head. SCI doesn't want the competition with the record book business and they're scared of DSC.

SCI accused Rowland Ward of being owned or controlled by DSC - as if that really matters, and used it as a pretext to kick them out of the show.

For the sake of consistency, I wonder if they'll ban Craig Boddington, whose television show is sponsored by DSC, or Chifuti who do the hunts for the show, or anyone who is a member of DSC, or anyone who has ever been to Dallas?

Just a further reminder of why I quit SCI.
Went to the DSC convention last year, and though it was smaller, had a lot more fun. Guess its time to put my money where my mouth is and join DSC.

I've often heard through my contacts that SCI likes it "their way or the highway" in regards to business

With regards to their out right refusal to pull Usangu Safaris off the floor until enough people went to the Chair of the SCI Ethics committee, it works both ways. Usangu was a "Major Donor". Never mind they were theives. Remember SCI's Slogan..."First For Money..." Yes I am a member so spare me the lecture.

This is the case of the aging, whining, pompous girlfriend that demands jewelry every time you see her, compared to the younger, more laid back girlfriend that just wants to have fun!

I've heard PHs complain about the pound of flesh SCI demands from everyone.

I'm a member of both SCI and DSC. DSC is cheaper, more laid back, more fun, and seems to be less of a pecker measuring contest, i.e. if you're not high net worth go away. SCI does plenty of good, but can't stand sharing the limelight with anybody. They even send out jealous "alerts" if they think DSC is stealing their thunder. Gimme a break. When you start acting like a jealous junior high girl, your days are numbered.

Now I think we're way overdue to hear a staunch rebuttal from a sputtering life member of SCI.

I was a member of DSC back when DSC was still affliated, some way, with SCI. I am still a bit confused about the reasons DSC and SCI went there separate ways, however, I suspect that although Dallas was the largest affiliate, (I believe), SCI felt it could dominate the club and Dallas wanted no part of it!

quote:

or anyone who is a member of DSC, or anyone who has ever been to Dallas?

Uh-oh... do I need to let my reservations at the Peppermill go????

Actually, I belong to both organizations as well. SCI and DSC both accomplish much for the hunters both here and abroad. But I have to admit, DSC and Gray Thornton (hated to see him go)did a masterful job of building their association into one of the best marketing and hunter advocacy groups in the nation! Look at their affiliations, Boddington, Sports Afield, Rowland Ward, Safari Press. While the guys at SCI doddered around in their own self-importance, Dallas really became progressive in their strategic planning and vision for their organization. Have to hand it to them... they executed well.

SCI? They need to take a hard look at who is leading the charge and bring in some new folks with fresh ideas...

It's quite simple really.

The reason that exhibitors pay the amount they due to SCI is because it is worth it to them to do so. Everyone bitches about how much everything costs but in the end you pay what you have to if you benefit enough from it.

The reason that DSC is smaller and cheaper is because it is smaller and cheaper. Not as many people go so not as much interest in the products being sold, so not as much money being charged.

<<<<<<,"I was a member of DSC back when DSC was still affliated, some way, with SCI. I am still a bit confused about the reasons DSC and SCI went there separate ways, however, I suspect that although Dallas was the largest affiliate, (I believe), SCI felt it could dominate the club and Dallas wanted no part of it!" Bryon Chick >>>>>>

Bryon:

My 2005 book, "The History of SCI," tells how about a dozen SCI chapters, including Dallas, Houston and Sacramento (SCI's largest chapter then) left SCI in 1983 when the club's board (comprised of reps from every chapter) passed a resolution calling for all chapters to give headquarters 30% of the profits of their annual fund-raising efforts.

It made no difference that groups such as Ducks Unlimited, Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation were taking 100% of their local chapters' profits.

The leaders of the rebel chapters believed what came to be known as the "Dearborn Resolution" (the 30% rule) would directly benefit controversial founder C.J. McElroy and they walked out when the vote didn't go the way they wanted. All of them except Dallas, Houston and Sacramento returned to the fold within the year.

Sacramento re-affiliated a couple of years before I retired in 1999 from my post as SCI's director of publications. It may be a safe bet that Dallas and Houston never will. But who knows? Stranger things have happened.

Bill Quimby

Incidentally, Cazador Humilde, I'm an SCI life member but I'm not sputtering because I'm not defending or knocking the club for banning Rowland Ward until I'm certain what led to that decision.

This just what we need....another split. If someone would pull the tail feathers out of some of these mirror parading Cock's, we might all unite and stand a better chance against the forces that want hunting stopped and every gun confiscated. I score for SCI and RW, so the hell what! I belong to many hunter organizations and attend DSC (great show in my opinion) so what does it matter if RW gets a few crumbs now and then? Always going to be about money and power. Pfffft

Sounds like Jessie Jackson is now in charge of space for SCI

SCI is nothing more than a "billonaire boys club".

SCI can kiss old spot as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure there are many exceptions, but IMO they are a bunch of pompous assholes who need a pin stuck in them to let some of their inflated air out. I know personally of many outrageous activities of the founders back in the 80s, I swore then that I'd never have anything to do with them and I won't.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

< Perhaps someone should refer both matters to the SCI ethics committee... >

SCI has an Ethics committee? Really?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
With regards to their out right refusal to pull Usangu Safaris off the floor until enough people went to the Chair of the SCI Ethics committee, it works both ways. Usangu was a "Major Donor". Never mind they were theives. Remember SCI's Slogan..."First For Money..." Yes I am a member so spare me the lecture.

I too am a long time member of SCI, almost from their begining, and I don't agree with everything they do, but they do a lot of good for the hunter, and wildlife all over the world. They have some bad habits as well, and that is unfortunant, but I have very close friends who have some bad habits as well,and that I don't agree with,I'm sure I have some as well, but like SCI, their good habits far out weigh the bad.

I have never been to even one SCI convention, in thirty years, but I never miss an DSC convention. The main reason for that is, the price gouging of members by SCI, keeps this rif-raf out of their conventions, and I don't care if I can afford it or not, I refuse to be gouged, by anyone! As I said earlier I consider their handleing of exibitors as "STRONG ARM EXTORTION", and their priceing to members for conventions, the same!

Safari magazine is worth my annual dues, and I donate to some of the projects they work on, but simply will not be bullyed into submission by anyone, or any organisation!

prof242 it is about time . The best thing SCI has going for it are its local chapters. If DSC could do something like that SCI would realy be in the Crapper.

Die Ou Jagter,
Does this mean I'm welcome again at the dinner table in Jan 09?

Um, well I guess so, and if you aren't doing anything on Sept 13th Dulcinea is having an AR get togeather at his place in York, Pa. your welcome and we may have some shooting.

I don't know when I will go back to the SCI convention, but I did renew my membership because a member of AR explained to me the good that the local chapters do, (and I was able to remain a measurer). The great thing about the DSC convention, is that it is becoming a kind of get together for members of Accurate Reloading. I was really surprised at how many of the members were there last year. I skipped the official dinner and auctions last year and attended the dinner for AR with my wife and the party saturday night at the hotel with AR, and had a great time. I hope it continues to be an Accurate Reloading event. I sure had a good time!

DOJ: Will have to miss the PA event. Will be antelope hunting in Wyoming.
Max

I don't know the details on this issue but I do know that each and every Trade Show has "their own" rules and regulations for vendors. As a manufactures rep over the years (RET.) have seen all kinds of this happening. I am sure DSC, SHOT and SCI have all denied various vendors from exibiting at their shows. As a vendor you play by the rules of those in charge of each venue or go elsewhere. It's their football, their field so play by the rules involved or go home!! Funny how when things like this happen on here and nobody really knows the entire story how all the "bashers" are the first to come out of the woodwork??

Nobody makes us attend any of these Shows, so go to the ones you want and like and be done with it.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I'm curious. I'm a member of SCI, in fact a life member, and have been to the sum total of one convention when it was held in Las Vegas. Reno is inconvenient AND expensive so I don't go. What I'm curious about is just exactly WHAT does Rowland Ward DO. I know they keep some sorts of records of game animals but have no idea of anything else the do for anyone. I also only know of the convention that DSC has and don't know of anyother thing THEY do either. I know reasonably well what SCI does for it's membership and while I don't always agree with all aspects of their management I have no idea of anything the other 2 organizations do.

Zimbabwe,

I am on the board of directors of DSC. Call the office on Monday and ask for Jaimey, one of our employees. She will have my information of how you can reach me. I can explain to you what the DSC mission is and what we do.

I have nothing but comtempt for the leadership & ethics committee of the SCI. The leadership is corrupt in my opinion.
However, the local chapters is a different story. The local chapters are filled with good, hard working hunters---my hat goes off for them.
Saeed: I ditto our comments

Prof242
what unit are your hunting pronghorns? I will be hunting with my two sons in 91--good luck to you. I love hunting sagebrush goats

Gonna be in the area up by Rock River on a friend's ranch. Its good to have friends with ranchland.

Caretaker,
Thank you for your most generous offer. After your response I did what I SHOULD have done before I posted and went to the web site of both DSC and Rowland ward. Your organization,DSC, seems to be a most laudable organization that I would, indeed, be proud to be a member of. It does appear it is specifically oriented to Texas residents and specifically those in the Dallas Area which is perfectly natural given the name. While the publications are probably first rate and the contributaory support is of organizations I percieve as worthy it does not seem that it would offer me,as an Arizona resident,much in the way of incentive to belong. I don't even go to the SCI convention because it is equally as far away so see no really outstanding reason to attend the Dallas meeting. Rowland Ward appears to be no more or less than a publishing company that keeps a record book of big game trophies and as such is of little interest to me personally. I am not an active member of any organization as that is just my nature. I participate little in the Chapter activities of SCI though they are within easy distances,and have not even been to the fundraiser for a couple of years. I do go to the museum here quite regularly and read the publications avidly. I just become somewhat weary of the constant bashing of SCI and fail to understand how they could maintain ANY membership if they did so little for the hunter and their membership as this bashing indicates. I have also been an endowement life member of the NRA for many years and a member for over 50 and they have achieved the same status of being bashed at every turn on this forum and other but they too still prevail and endure. My prognosis is they both MUST be doing SOMETHING right and their membership must be basically pleased with the organizations to endure.

quote:

I have nothing but comtempt for the leadership & ethics committee of the SCI. The leadership is corrupt in my opinion.

Other than hearsay, what evidence do you have to back up the statement?