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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Any Trouble with headstamps\barrel stamps not matching?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
In another post I told a perspective buyer of a firearm that it is best to have barrelstamp, headstamp, and ammo boxes with the same information. I was corrected. Has anyone had any trouble with wildcat cartridges or MTM type ammo boxes in their travels? I seem to remember Boddington, or some other high profile type, having problems with MTM boxes. | ||
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I've never had anybody even look to see if they matched. Nearly always fly with plastic boxes. No problem there ever. Did have a little run in with a Dudly Doo Raht (TSA) over the weight of my ammo - an airline reg at the time, not a Fed reg. I think the Feds have now adopted a 2 Kg restriction or some such tripe designed to force trap shooters to buy shells at the event instead of taking their own. Also a royal PITA for dove hunters going to Argentina. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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In theory the barrel stamp, headstamp marking matches are required in South Africa. In fact the barrels are also supposed to be stamped with the same serial number as the action. How closely this is monitored is just a case of how astute, aware, intelligent, bureaucratic, zealous the inspection agent is. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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In 55 years of shooting and owning many rifles, I have yet to see a barrel stamped with a serial number matching the receiver serial number. I wonder what bonehead in South Africa came up with this one? | |||
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I've wondered about that myself. My CZ75B is the only firearm I own that has the same serial number stamped on the receiver and the barrel. But heck, when you're thinking up gun control regs logic and reason are usually the last things applied. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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The serial number only has to be on the receiver I believe RSA dropped the barrel stamp idea shortly after the inacted the new regualtions a few years ago. I guess they realized most gun manufactors do not stamp the serial number on the barrel. I have gone thru RSA in 2005 and 2007 with no problems and have only listed the serial number as being on the receiver on the SAPS form. In addition they have never even looked at my ammo. Good Hunting,  | |||
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The requirement is probably a throwback to earlier times, you will find the gun's serial number on both the actions and the barrels on double rifles and shotguns. Of course that makes sense for these weapons since the action and barrels are easily seperated. No limit to beaurocraticly generated unintended consequence. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Believe that, in South Africa, the bolt must have the serial number on it, too. My .375 Dakota, built in South Africa, does. Regards | |||
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Most of the time my ammo is in MTM cases as it is reloads. I've never been questioned about that by TSA or Customs. _______________________________  | |||
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How many times a year do hunters take their vintage English Double Rifles to Africa with no marking on the barrels or flats as to caliber? This is getting into "Urban Legend" territory. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Walter, This goes back to the "It will probably be alright" philosophy. Why on what might be the trip of a lifetime would anyone take any chances that were unecessary particularly chances that could ruin your safari. Ammo does need to have the appropriate headstamps that match what is stamped on the barrel and matches the gun permit. I have had my ammo checked and every round looked at. People do get away with not having everything match all the time but do you want to be the 1-100 that gets checked? There does not need to be a ser# on the barrel and the receiver for a bolt action rifle. I use factory boxes for my ammo regardless of whether they are handloads or not. Probably over kill but nobody can question the appropriateness of the packaging. When traveling to Africa you will be dealing with officials that don't even have the slightest familiarity with firearms and ammo. I try to not give these amazingly ignorant folks any reason to misunderstand anything. Finally do not bring reloading components or ammo for the PH that does not match your personal firearms. I personally have talked to 2 people that spent time at a jail in Zim. One had bullets for a PH the other had 2 boxes of undeclared factory ammo. Two other guys were fined $200 bucks for non matching ammo in RSA, refused to pay and spent a weekend in jail. On Monday they paid willingly. Follow the rules and have a great safari. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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So, Mark what is your recommendation for ammo for vintage double rifle? Say a 450/400 3 inch. or 470 Nitro Express? Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I have not had this problem in the last 40 years and don't anticipate it in the future and I have sent hundreds maybe thousands of hunters to Africa....Some years ago I had a rifle with no marking except on the stock. They chambered a round and called it good, so I crawled out from under the counter and went on my merry way...... Just off hand I don't recall ever seeing a serial number stamped on the barrel of a rifle, at any rate its the exception rather than the rule. The serial number is normally only on the action and on many doubles the serial number is on the trigger guard and thats a removablel part. If you have a serial number on the gun your home free... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I've got a potential matching problem, but only for the most anal inspector around. I have a 404 with a barrel stamped "404 Jeffries", however my brass is stamped "404 Jeffery". We'll see what happens.  Caleb | |||
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Rusty, I'm not sure what you are asking. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Mark, Some older double rifles do not have cartridge info engraved on them. So whatever the ammo, it can't match the rifle re headstamp. This is the basis for Rusty's Q. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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I think I am going to get all the calibers I own tatooed on my ass....that should solve it Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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But then you will have to wrap your ammo in condoma and swallow it as a poster ont the other thread suggested. With the cartridge tatoo'd on your ass and your ass spitting out those rounds, well the headtamp will match if anyone dares check. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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At least in the Republic of South Africa it is illegal to posess ammunition for a firearm you don't own or posess. In other words if you own a .300 H&H and have .375 H&H ammo with you then you're potentially going to have the ammo confiscated. If your gun shoots the .275 Rigby and you have 7MM Mauser ammo (the same thing) you could again have your ammo confiscated. If your gun is marked 416 Taylor and your ammo is marked .458 W M then again some unknowing fool might disallow the ammo even though it's specifically for the gun. Even though the law allows for this, I've never come across anyone that has ever had this problem occurr to him. Potentially a few hunters had to explain that the ammo he has in his posession actually is for his gun even though it's not marked so......but noone has ever (again) posted a loss of ammo because of confusing headstamp. RSA is the only nation like this to my knowlege but it's likely that a few other nations are similar. Normally folks go the extra mile to insure their ammo is stamped like their gun as a safety measure but then again.....no one has ever posted a loss of ammo for such a problem The folks at the airport in Johannesburg are just like flunkees all over.....they have no clue about these things or often about their own countries laws.....most folks like to avaid trouble by going the extra mile.......but those that didn't had no trouble at all to date. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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These threads get a little unrealistic from time to time, anything you do can and sometimes will be challanged by ignorant people, especially uneducated people that cannot count or read... 99.9% of these things can be worked out at the airport by the people with the Safari company. The worst thing for me in 40 years of dealing with the public is the guy who flipped out a $50 bill on the counter in front of everyone and loudly stated he knew how these things worked in these countries..I had to call Dar es Salaam and pull in a favor to get him and his bride out of jail. It took me several days and he was mad to say the least, I listened to him for just so long and then I gave him my response for his actions, never have heard from him since! guess I was a little harsh, and it cost me considerably to get him out, these things don't come cheap! You will almost never have a problem if you are polite and understanding and work around the problem in a foriegn country..If you don't understand the bribe system and how it works then don't do it...The best thing you can do is just act like you have no clue what is wrong, they will normally just pass you through. basically in Africa, if you can show them the round chambers in the rifle they will pass it, but the serial numbers must match, but even if they don't and this has happened many times due to folks being careless, but we always get it corrected and all ends well...so be astute when you fill out the forms and don't misprint your rifles serial number etc. I have all my guns engraved with a serial number on the bottom of the trigger guard so I can just lift them up a tad from my Tuff case and they read them and let them pass. I also have the serial number inked in on the back of the recoil pad and that has worked everytime but once, and I had to show him the number on the trigger guard.. I had a misread number on a double that was an old gun and hard to read, the customs guy in Dar just changed the form and let me go after I explained it was my mistake as my eyes were bad in my old age.. Most of these guys just do their job and most of them are very polite and nice in my experience.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Rusty,JPK Guys I guess you just have to travel and hope you could convince any questioning official that the law could not be applied to your vintage double. Personally that seems too nebulous for me. The SAP 520 forms requires a ser# as does every other gun permit form I've seen in the 8 African countries I've hunted. I don't have a clue on how you get around this unless a more modern rifle. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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You are absolutely right. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I have hunted in Zimbabwe in 2006. So I guess with one African safari under my belt I know it all.  I used factory boxes to carry my ammo in my luggage and the apprentice hunter had a good laugh. He noted on the high quality of my equipment, except the ammo boxes. They were old and held together with tape. The airline instructions were to do so, and I did. The Zimbabwean Customs official did check barrelstamps, what was written on the permit, and the ammo headstamps. As everything was above board I had no problems. She did check though. | |||
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I cannot help thinking all this was started by Art Alpin, and like a lot of things he said, they have absolutely nothing to do with reallity, except for him to make some money out of it! I have been going to Africa since 1982, and have never, ever, had anyone check the headstamp on my rifles or ammo. And I have been hunting with wilcats too! In fact, on every occasion, the customs people have the import permit, I get my rifles out of the gun case, and read the serial number for them. That is it! They never asks anything else apart from how many rounds I have. | |||
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And when you answer "Ten Thousand rounds of 375 H&H loaded with the Infamous Walterhog Bullet" what do they say??  | |||
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Or how stupid the hunter is by volunteering information such as: "The action is numbered different from the barrel, but it is a replacement barrel!" Or something like: "My rifle is a 'Wildcat", therefore the actual caliber stamped on the barrel is not accurate, my rifle is a .300 Improved Weatherby. And besides, the cases are headstamped .375 H&H, but I just blow these out to make my cases." This type of volunteered info is sure to bump the beetle right off it's corck! And as all informed South Africans know, once the beetle has fallen off, you've got serious problems! Rather just walk up calmly, open your guncase when asked - and not before - leave the guy to do his inspection and in all probability walk off, even if the serial numbers do not match! [Ever seen how they actually check the numbers?] In good hunting. Andrew McLaren Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Only time I ever had a problem was with Rem.7mm ammo with ballistic tips(red). I was told that only military tracer ammo had red tips, and why was I hunting with tracer ammo? Talked my way thru that one.... | |||
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oh, that could be bad.... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Will you have problems if you have a 458 Win Mag that has been changed to a Lott and don't have the graphics on the barrel changed and are packing Lott ammo? The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
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Dave, If the cartridge cases say Lott and not Win Mag there is the potential for a problem. The point is you can't depend on being able to explain your way out of any minor infraction if it is picked up. One of the members here on AR spent a weekend in the police station at Vic Falls because the police thought the Barnes X bullets he was taking to a PH were undeclared cartridges. They told him the powder went in the litte hole. No shit!!! Get your barrel engraved. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Looks like a little engraving work is needed Thanks Mark!The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
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jetdrvr, this condition is common on European made rifles. I can show you racks of Mannlichers, Steyr-Mannlichers, and FNs marked in that way. On the other hand, I have never seen an airline, TIA, or customs agent to check for such markings. LLS  | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Any Trouble with headstamps\barrel stamps not matching?
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