Mac, have you or anyone else NEVER made a shot that you would like to call back?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Because there was no rule making it illegal to not follow up wounded and escaped animals, the safaris being for the
most part on foot safaris, and following up one or two wounded animals could cost them a couple of days hunting, read money
lost, they simply didn’t do so.

Bell was not hunting in the totally golden era of 'do what one may totally unrestricted' with game everywhere,
He clearly states that those times had passed and that when he started hunting ivory, the elephant had already
been heavily persecuted in the easy access regions,,,and there were more and more controls regs. coming into place,
People being required to buy an ivory hunting permit for IIRC,40-80 BPS..?

Now in regards to pursuing wounded elephant,
Be aware that at times on his long treks, he could not see suitable bulls for a few weeks.
So if he then came across a suitable bull,he went to great efforts to secure it.
1./ because of its important financial value to him
2./its the only he's seen in well over month of hard trek, and doesn't really know when he will again see more good bull.

and Bell tells of himself ardently pursuing a no-money/ivory value tuskless ele for several hrs..
now logical would tell us that he would do at least the same for a wounded, but highly valuable ivory-laden bull....



[QUOTE] "THE hunting of the African elephant is now restricted in so many ways that it is difficult for anyone
to gain experience in the shooting of them. In most of the protectorates or dependencies of the European powers
a licence to kill two in a year costs from £40 to £80."...
...Twenty-five years ago parts of Africa were still open to unrestricted hunting, and it is from a stock of experience —
gathered during years devoted to this fascinating pursuit — that I am about to draw, in the hope that it may assist the
sportsman to bring about a successful termination to his hunt and perhaps save some unfortunate animal from a lingering death
due to wounds."

-WDM Bell
[end/QUOTE]

Gentlemen,
Elephant were worth a great deal of money and these expeditions took a lot of effort and months of walking. Losing elephants would have been a serious concern.
(Hence Bell's deliberate development of the brain shot from diffirent angles, since outright kills disturbed the herds less than body shot animals, which always went into a death run; by the time they died the rest of the herd was leaving also.)

However it is true there was no legal compulsion to find and kill a wounded animal. But just because their wasn't any, does not mean that one can surmise that he wounded and lost many animals because he used a 7x57mm. The man plainly was not an idiot, and if he thought he could perform better with a big bore, he would have used them more than he did.

He did own and use a 450/400, (although he put it away after his first safari) and also bought two .416's, and also a .350 Rigby Magnum. He write of using hte .350 Magnum, but only that it was too heavy for a rifle that didnt kill any better than a .275, and the .416's he never mentions at all, although we know he purchased two (several months apart) from the Rigby ledgers. I speculate they could have been on other peoples behalf.)

I think it would be fair to point out at this stage that Bell never claimed anywhere in his books, articles or letters, that he had a 100% success rate.
What he did claim, was that he had didn't have a lower success rate using small bores rather than with the big bores.

..

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:

Elephant were worth a great deal of money and these expeditions took a lot of effort and months of walking.
Losing elephants would have been a serious concern.
(Hence Bell's deliberate development of the brain shot from diffirent angles,...)

...I think it would be fair to point out at this stage that Bell never claimed anywhere in his books, articles or letters,
that he had a 100% success rate.

Bell much preferred the brain shot but was no stranger to the heart shot..[quite suitable for the short grass regions].
For such low grass areas he recommended one take about a 30yd shot.
However in parts where grass was 12-14 feet high, how does one take a heart shot?
Hence his skill & finesse at the brain shot and use of a stand, worked well to his advantage.

HIs preferred approach on a herd was to first shoot the furthest one out,then work back onto the closer ones.
he would also prefer to first shoot a still bull, then use his extended talents on the moving ones.

The least disturbing kills to effect the remainder of a herd,typically, were when the bull just fell to his knees,
but lets refer to Mr.Bell for an elaboration,.....


[QUOTE] "The deadliest and most humane method of killing the African elephant is the shot in the brain.
Its advantages over the body shot are numerous, but among them may be mentioned that it causes instantaneous
death, and no movement of the stricken animal communicates panic to others in the vicinity. The mere falling
of the body from the upright to a kneeling or lying position does not appear in practice to have any other effect
than to make the others mildly curious as to what has happened. On the other hand, if there are several elephants
together and the heart shot is employed, the one hit almost invariably rushes off with a groan and squirm
for fifty or a hundred yards, taking with him his companions, which do not stop when he stops, but continue their
flight for miles. Another great advantage that the brain shot has over the heart shot is that with the former there
is no search for the dead animal, whereas with the latter it is sometimes extremely difficult to find it in thick bush
even when lying within fifty or sixty yards of the spot from which the shot was fired."

-WDM Bell.
[end/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Mac, have you or anyone else NEVER made a shot that you would like to call back?

Yes, on an estimated 90 pounder I lost from a shot I should not have taken - it still haunts me to this day.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Mac, have you or anyone else NEVER made a shot that you would like to call back?

Certainly I have and anyone with more than a little experience has as well. I will say that I have never wounded an animal and LOST him, out of hundreds I have shot, because I clean up any mess I make, and am not shy about telling anyone of the fact.

That is my whole point. I'm sure Bell lost a lot of game over his hunting life. The fact that he was a deadly shot with his little pop gun and did kill and collect a lot of game, I'm sure his COLLECTED bag was in the numbers he stated. My point is he and most others of his day failed to mention the, I'm sure, several hundred head of game that were wounded and lost, with no mention of in his writings.

Smoke and mirrors does not just come from what you say, but more importantly, what you fail to say!

Still I don't think Bell was being evasive, but just didn't think it was a big deal so didn't mention it at all. After all, the game was limitless in the minds of the market hunters of Bell's day!

.....................................................................

quote:

That is my whole point. I'm sure Bell lost a lot of game over his hunting life. The fact that he was a deadly shot with his little pop gun and did kill and collect a lot of game, I'm sure his COLLECTED bag was in the numbers he stated. My point is he and most others of his day failed to mention the, I'm sure, several hundred head of game that were wounded and lost, with no mention of in his writings.

Mac, you are the first person I have ever heard say that they had never shot and lost an animal.

I am not disputing your claim, just stating that I have never talked to anyone that has not lost at least one animal over their hunting career.

It would be great if more folks could say that.

Your conclusion is that Bell injured and lost, not some, but several hundred elephant?

And this can be deduced not in spite of, but because he never mentions anything like that in his books?

Should we conclude of Jim Corbett the same - that he injured and lost say, how many, twenty (or fifty) tigers? - the proof of this being in that he never mentions it in his books, and he also liked to use a 7x57?

Of course not.

There are certain assumption being made that have become the foundation for conclusions like this. One, that 7x57's and .303's with solid ammo really are not very effective at killing elephants really, despite the history and proof of those who have done it...and secondly, that with no game laws , people will automatically just shoot and wound a bunch of animals because it doesn't matter.

I won't address the small bore/big bore debate - Bell did that in his own day and I refer you to his article for American Rifleman in 1947 (Small Bores - Big Bores)

But on the lack of game laws I will give some perspective. There are no game laws in my country today. None. No seasons, no tags, you can shoot young deer, females, or males of any age, throughout the year, and on every day of the year, as many as you like. And there are good numbers of them in many areas. There is no legal requirement to collect any of the meat. You could just leave them to rot if you wanted.
Despite this, I would really doubt that there are more deer injured and lost here than in the United States. The concern for a humane kill and ethics for following up are the same, yet we didn't get them from the USA or any country in Africa. We got them straight from England, from a hunting culture that included WDM Bell.

(One thing I will admit too, is that here hunters do not take as much of the meat as hunters in the USA. Many people take the whole carcass if they can, but with much of the hunting being backpack hunting the terrain limits what can be carried and many hunters will take the back haunches and backsteaks, depending on the terrain and the distances.)

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

That is my whole point. I'm sure Bell lost a lot of game over his hunting life. The fact that he was a deadly shot with his little pop gun and did kill and collect a lot of game, I'm sure his COLLECTED bag was in the numbers he stated. My point is he and most others of his day failed to mention the, I'm sure, several hundred head of game that were wounded and lost, with no mention of in his writings.

Mac, you are the first person I have ever heard say that they had never shot and lost an animal.

I am not disputing your claim, just stating that I have never talked to anyone that has not lost at least one animal over their hunting career.

It would be great if more folks could say that.

Well CHC, there is no way I can prove it to you, so I guess you will just have to believe it or not! I have lost game by blowing a stalk but not after shooting them.

As I said in my post I don't believe the old guys were purposefully being evasive by not mentioning the lost game they experienced. It is just that nobody cared in those days because they considered game nothing more than a way to make a living, and believed it was an endless supply!

.......................................................................

Personally, I think by the conventions of his time, Bell was 100% accurate.

By the conventions of our times, he had to have left quite a bit out- if he was averaging 1.5 rounds per elephant, his whole system is hogwash (ie every herd he would have had a blown brain shot by that figure)

I am sure that he killed 3 buffalo with 3 shots from a 7x57 at one point, but why mention if there were times when he dumped the magazine in one buff and it ran off? Personally, while having shot now 16 buffalo and having some drop quickly to the shot, it would seem somewhat strange that the buffalo which fell didn't take a bit of that time to fall and make the second visible, and then acquire and fire at that one, then to have the second one stagger off, requiring Bell to decide if he needed a second shot in it or not, and then acquiring the third... Not doubting for a second he could fire 3 precise shots in 5 seconds, but that he said that only one was visible when he opened the ball, that makes me think it was his perception of things, not any sort of accurate statement. As I recall, I said once that I had emptied my .416 (4 shots) in to one buffalo in about 5 seconds. That was my recollection- it was wrong. When I got to see the actual film, it was more like 9 seconds- fast, but not that fast. I think this is something similar- he knew he could shoot that fast, and thought that had to have been the case. Stress does funny things to our sense of time, after all.

Also, when one thinks of it, the 7x57 and such in Bell's day was the equivalent of the fast magnums now- compared to the BPE guns, and we have plenty of debate about whether or not a high speed cartridge kills any better than a standard one.

I will say this- if Bell were alive and hunting today, I really doubt he would even think of shooting elephant with a 7x57. The mid bores have caught up with the small bores in quality projectiles and while he probably would be using a light for caliber monometal bullet, he would undoubtedly be shooting a .375 (probably a ruger as it would give him the short action light package he evidently preferred.)

I am not saying I do not believe you Mac, I am just stating something I have been hearing from folks for almost 45 years, and my own experiences, nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

..if he was averaging 1.5 rounds per elephant, his whole system is hogwash (ie every herd he would have had a blown brain shot by that figure)

I was under the impression Bells average of 1.5 per bull for his career, was based on both brain and heart shots.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
It is just that nobody cared in those days because they considered game nothing more than a way to make a living,
and was an endless supply!

endless supply?

Ivory hunters could trudge for weeks and not bag a bull, or track the same herd for weeks just to get a shot at them,
hence there was no easy endless supply.
Bell had to make long treks into the remote interior, bcause other areas had been already decimated by other hunters.
Numbers below show that there was no endless supply of bulls that were just falling into Bells lap everywhere he went;
[QUOTE]
Locality. Bull Elephants.

Mombasa-Malindi Coast..... 14
Tana River ............... 17
Masindi District...........23
Mount Elgon ...............42
Mani-Mani..................91

Dodose.....................63

Dabossa ..................149
Lado Enclave ............ 266
French Ivory Coast.........80

Liberia ...................27

French Congo..............189
Belgian Congo..............22
[end/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by petermayall:
Use a large rifle and get the job done quick and affectively !

using a large rifle,yeh, certainly not a bad idea, but not good as a blanket rule.
since,sorry to say Peter,
Bell,Selby and PHs of today, are still seeing unskilled hunters who can't close the deal on DG with BigBore.
(i.e; people completely missing elephant at 5yd), that is no better than people who cannot hit the brain or
heart with 7mm. Theres no magic in .500cal or 7mm, one just needs whats required to apply each very effectively.

id say 14yo Gail Selby would have been more confident and effective with her 7x57, than an intimidating .470 or .500cal.
She was said to be nervous enough at the bull, without having to be doubly nervous about having to be firing a large rather
off-putting cal.
+ anyone who might expect everyone who hunts to be able to brain with 7mm as good as Bell, or use .500cal as well as a
seasoned African PH, is not in the real world.

quote:

Originally posted by petermayall:

Some of us are lucky, some are good. I'd prefer to be lucky !

Personally, I strongly prefer my surgeon,aircraft mechanic,gunmaker,chef,barista,dentist,legal adviser,home builder,and PH,
to be good, not just lucky,... since the fickle thing called luck, can easily run out at any time.

To me, luck is something people come across by chance,then if alert will seize and capitalise on, but don't automatically
or ultimately hope to rely on it.

I never read anything by Bell to indicate he'd written his books for the income. He made quite a nice fortune with the ivory . Someone said he shot sparrows of something, with his rifle. he shot these birds that dive for fish, forget the name, but they're the size of ducks. He was using up some questionable ammo, and getting in some good practice. He also went back to Africa a time or two. I have had this discussion with another on another forum, about a rifle that recoils enough to disturb you, when if you're using something a bit smaller (in this case we were discussing the 375 on plains game, as opposed to the 06/308, etc on the same game), and my position was, if you can shoot well, the 06, is the better round, because most people can shoot it better, and it has all the power it needs to kill most game, here or anywhere else. Depends, too, on the shooter. Saw a recent video where a professional culler in N. Australia killed 40,000, yes , 40,000 water buff with a 308 and ball ammo. This guy shot'em under the ear. With a lot of folks "trophy" hunting and not wanting to damage the cape/horns, head shots not used much, but if you can hit them there, is definitely a DRT, shot.

The name of the birds Bell was shooting at were Cormorants..

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petermayall:
...Use a large rifle and get the job done quick and affectively !

using a large rifle,yeh, certainly not a bad idea, but not good as a blanket rule.
since,sorry to say Peter,
Bell,Selby and PHs of today, are still seeing unskilled hunters who can't close the deal on DG with BigBore.
(i.e; people completely missing elephant at 5yd), that is no better than people who cannot hit the brain or
heart with 7mm. Theres no magic in .500cal or 7mm, one just needs whats required to apply each very effectively.

id say 14yo Gail Selby would have been more confident and effective with her 7x57, than an intimidating .470 or .500cal.
She was said to be nervous enough at the bull, without having to be doubly nervous about having to be firing a large rather
off-putting cal.
+ anyone who might expect everyone who hunts to be able to brain with 7mm as good as Bell, or use .500cal as well as a
seasoned African PH, is not in the real world.



Trax, you really are a "rabbit"

You were very slow to come back with this one. Do you sit for days pondering over posts and wondering what to write next ?

You really should get a life !

If you ever did any hunting at all, you would be able to read another person's post and interoperate it correctly.

I'm only bothering to answer this post in case a novice hunter reads it and gets the wrong idea.

Let me spell it out for you again.

Novice hunters on Buffalo are told to use a minimum calibre of 375 H&H, with premium ammo and told to aim for the heart/ lung area. Not the brain, not just the heart.

This is the largest target area. That way the margin for error is reduced.

Now a 375 H&H can still penetrate to a Buffalo's vitals on a shot where the animal is not standing exactly square on to you.

It's all about reducing the risk ! This is all very simple really. Are you with me so far ?

I never mentioned a for a Novice DG hunter to use a 470NE or 500J. I said I use them for a back up rifle.

Also don't worry about the recoil of a 375 H&H. I've guided plenty of 100 pound women that could handle it.

In regard to Gail Selby. Do you think she had no one behind her with a larger rifle backing her up in case things went wrong ?

Now before you say you know all this and it's all been written before.

Then why do you keep raving on about it?

You know people would maybe pay a little more attention to your posts, if you could include some personal experience.

quote:

Originally posted by petermayall:

Some of us are lucky, some are good. I'd prefer to be lucky !

Personally, I strongly prefer my surgeon,aircraft mechanic,gunmaker,chef,barista,dentist,legal adviser,home builder,and PH,
to be good, not just lucky,... since the fickle thing called luck, can easily run out at any time.

To me, luck is something people come across by chance,then if alert will seize and capitalise on, but don't automatically
or ultimately hope to rely on it.


Trax, Once again you have taken what I have written the wrong way.

This statement was referring to how some hunters can go through there whole hunting life, kill thousands DG animals and never get so much as a scratch.

While others get "smashed" within their first 100. Which is usually the case due to their inexperience.

If you want to mention a bad luck story try Fletcher Jamieson's, hunted all those DG animals, survived to tell the tale and then was electrocuted in a well !



Now Trax, study this post for a while, but don't bother coming back to me.

I really can't be bothered replying to someone who speaks with authority, but their only real chance of getting hurt by DG is a paper cut from a book they are reading on the subject.

Mr.Mayall,
you say you tell people to use .375cal minimum, and that small women can shoot them,
so why do you allow male hunters to use {bow & arrow} to turn buffalo in slow dying pin-cushions?
are not slow-dying buff from .30cal enough problem for you?

GOODHAND BUFFALO HUNT VIDEO,

Since .470cal or .500cal are back-up, why is nobody stepping in with such to humanely end the life of this
multiple-arrow hit bovine?..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by petermayall:

In regard to Gail Selby. Do you think she had no one behind her with a larger rifle backing her up in case things went wrong ?

She was a 14yo Girl of course she needs back-up,...whereas skilled Bell with .275 seems to have handled all his encounters.
Now in regards to Harry using .416 RNsolid, some today think he really needed more gun and better bullets, but 40+yrs PH duties, culls, and
a burnt-out/replaced .416 tube, shows they are talking nonsense.

Now before you say you know all this and it's all been written before.
Then why do you keep raving on about it?

Mr.Mayall,
Just remember, It was you who came into a Bell thread to give more 'current' advice,..claiming that 100yr old advice is obsolete,
but when we listen to you, we find its the identical advice Bell gave 90yrs ago!...

As Such, Bell readers have know about it for frikn' ages,.. so why did you find the need to come into a Bell thread
to expound the bleating obvious??

quote:

Originally posted by petermayall:


I'm only bothering to answer this post in case a novice hunter reads it and gets the wrong idea.

How about you have the sense to carefully consider more before you actually post, so you don't have come back and expand-clarify.
since you seem to have habit of being vague and ambiguous in your statements.

This is a thread about Bell, but so far all you have talked about is yourself and what you describe as your 'bag-full' of 'idiot'
small cal. using clients, you( time and time again) taken money from.

quote:

Originally posted by petermayall:

I never mentioned a for a Novice DG hunter to use a 470NE or 500J. I said I use them for a back up rifle.

Actually what you said was very vague-generalised, you simply suggested using large-bore, NO stipulation about it being for back-up
or not for in-experienced novices,..since you cannot remember what you actually post, or what context, and always struggle to express
what you really mean,,
Id say your plain-vanilla dumb!...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by petermayall:
Use a large rifle and get the job done quick and affectively !
[end/QUOTE]

x3

quote:

Originally posted by petermayall:

Novice hunters on Buffalo are told to use a minimum calibre of 375 H&H, with premium ammo and told to aim for the heart/ lung area.
Not the brain, not just the heart.

Harry Selby guided his 14yo daughter onto elephant for the heart-shot with Bells 7x57 rifle,
Harry did his job properly as a PRO -Gail did hers properly as novice, ...and the results we see are fine...

and since this threads really about Bell,Africa,Elephants and the 7x57, posted in the AR-African forum ,
who really gives a ratzass interest in hearing about you & your novice clients in Australia on water buff????

It has Fckall to do with Bell and his extensive experience with very effective method of brain-shooting thousands of elephants.

However if you still want to question the 7x57, you are free to contact Mr.Selby and inform him of his 'errors' as a PH.
He probably will like to know how many elephants you have killed , and will likely then reflect on his own elephant kill number.

Trax's troll rantings.... .... he can't even remember what the OP was about!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Trax's troll rantings.... .... he can't even remember what the OP was about!!!

and he's ranting like a lunatic as usual. note that he again assaults the experiences of others yet offers not even minuscule anecdotal evidence of his own hunting experience. i will make a wager that all of his experience is tied up in the bindings of the books he reads

quote:

Originally posted by maxenergy:
note that he again assaults the experiences of others

Huntings guides like Mr.Mayall in OZ, who continue to allow a long list bag-full of inept clients to poorly wound DG,
with arrows and small cals, time and time again.. ..are pathetic and don't rank as experienced or professional to me.

and of all places,he comes to an African thread on WDM Bell, to tell the hunting world all about himself..

WE all know what Mark Sullivan cops from AR for his deemed unethical practices and now we have another guide like him.


-- I wonder what our host Saeed, thinks of another hunting guide who has poor ethics like Mark Sullivans?

the forum beats Sullivan to death yr after yr...., but we let the poor hunting ethics of guide PeterMayall slide????

I have and have read all the books by Bell that I know of, Bell, by Bell, Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter, and Karamjo Safari, I think it is. Are there more? an I missing something. Trax seems to have a wealth of information, from Bell's writings, that I haven't seen. I'm not saying it isn't there, would just like to read those books, articles, myself. BTW, I have a friend a former PH, who lived and worked in Rhodesia (So.), and when I hunted with him in 1972, had already killed 4,000 elephant.

Max,

I would like to hear what you disagree with what Trax has posted. Trax's experience or the lack there of has nothing to do with what he posted. The essence of the matter is wheteher or not it is true or plausible. Perhaps we can learn more from you.

If you critize Trax for a lack of experience, then you might wish to tell us about your experience and why your experiebce and opinions are superior to those of Trax. This would then be helpful for us to gain more insight.

Castigating someone for book experience is a problem in itself - as you may also sit with a lot of theoretical or book experience that you read at school, college, unisversity, et el. Shall we then burn these books, so we can't read them and have to experience everything ourselves?


Santa Claus

I cannot offer much knowledge on first hand performance of a 7 x 57 on Buffalo but can definitely confirm that I sent quite a few to the cemetery with my 7 Rem Mag.

While admitting having botched the odd one here and there which were later dispatched with something more appropriate, my preferred "first shot" was invariably with the 7 Rem.

All a question of shot placement.

quote:

Originally posted by Santa Claus:
Max,

I would like to hear what you disagree with what Trax has posted. Trax's experience or the lack there of has nothing to do with what he posted. The essence of the matter is wheteher or not it is true or plausible. Perhaps we can learn more from you.

If you critize Trax for a lack of experience, then you might wish to tell us about your experience and why your experiebce and opinions are superior to those of Trax. This would then be helpful for us to gain more insight.

Castigating someone for book experience is a problem in itself - as you may also sit with a lot of theoretical or book experience that you read at school, college, unisversity, et el. Shall we then burn these books, so we can't read them and have to experience everything ourselves?


Santa Claus

i know you have feelings for trax, so it was obvious you would come to his defense. however, if you were even remotely objective, you would see this pattern where trax goes after those in the safari industry. so, instead of attacking a new member like peter mayall and making unfounded accusations, he should turn inward and be critical of his own experiences. this has nothing to do with my experiences as they are not relevant to this discussion however trax seems to think peter mayall's experiences are insignificant

Can you folks not see that traxs is obviously here to purposely disrupt and cause problems. He/ she is most likely an animal rights activist and is able to get away with this drivel due to the complete lack of moderation on this sight.

The one and only solution for a low rent idiot like traxs is the ignore function.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Can you folks not see that traxs is obviously here to purposely disrupt and cause problems. He/ she is most likely an animal rights activist and is able to get away with this drivel due to the complete lack of moderation on this sight.

The one and only solution for a low rent idiot like traxs is the ignore function.

+1 on the ignore.

Trax is a passive/aggressive troll who is incapable of answering a question straight up.

Bell was far from the only one who used light rifles.
Fred Everett used a 7x57 for years, and later a 9.3x62 and .404. He was a poacher, and could not afford a lost animal to give away he was in the area. He also shot birds on the wing as practice and for food with a .22
Werner Von Alvensleben was a hunter and PH who's ethics are beyond reproach. He shot over a thousand buff, mostly with a 7x57 and some with a 6.5 mann. Robert Chatfield-Taylor was a friend of Werners, and he told of Werner telling him to just bring a 7x57 as he didn't need anything else for buff. Chatfield-Taylor declined as he didn't feel he had the abilities of Werner.
So, just saying, there are others out there who have done what Bell did, and didn't have a wounded animals running helter skelter across the country-side.

put the traxxbastage on ignore like I have him and you do not have to see his drivel.....

quote:

Werner Von Alvensleben was a hunter and PH who's ethics are beyond reproach. He shot over a thousand buff, mostly with a 7x57 and some with a 6.5 mann. Robert Chatfield-Taylor was a friend of Werners, and he told of Werner telling him to just bring a 7x57 as he didn't need anything else for buff.

Where could we read about the wanderings of Werner Von Alvensleben? Did he publish a book or are there some articles that one could read. This is amazing.

Santa Claus

Baron in Africa by Brian Marsh

quote:

put the traxxbastage on ignore like I have him and you do not have to see his drivel.....

And it will lower your blood pressure.

Thanks Alf, I found it.

Title Baron in Africa: The Remarkable Adventures of Werner Von Alvensleben
Author Brian Marsh
Publisher Safari Press, Incorporated, 1997
ISBN 1571570675, 9781571570673
Length 290 pages

Santa Claus

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
.. traxs is obviously here to purposely disrupt and cause problems.

The real problem is disrupter PeterMayall, who highjacked a thread about the specific subject- of the career of Mr.Bell.
Mr.Mayall just can't stop talking about his own career, his experiences, his advice{yawn}.... and nothing else.
If he wants to expound about himself so much, he is free to satisfy his self importance by starting a new thread
all about himself, ,there is no need to impertinently Highjack Mr.Bell .

unfortunately I must take some blame, because i gave the attention his small distant mind craves,
but now I will do my best to stay focused on the much more learned,interesting and orig. subject of Bell in Africa....and
I hope Mr.Mayall now understands and respects the interests of the Bell readers & contributors.

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:


I think it would be fair to point out at this stage that Bell never claimed anywhere in his books,
articles or letters, that he had a 100% success rate.
What he did claim, was that he had didn't have a lower success rate using small bores rather than with the big bores.

True, I don't recall Bell claiming he had all one-shot kills, or securing every animal shot,
Sometimes he would only manage to kill a few out of a large herd....other times he could find six bulls
and brained them all with six shots total, all done in a few minutes.
but definitely he found the small bore .256, 275,.318 highly suitable-effective 'braining' tools
for his style of hunting.

His hunting technique and locations, meant he had to trudge many long miles carrying his own rifle,
Running herd of elephant down for 8hrs is physically taxing, and a heavy cumbersome Bigbore with cartridges
was a burden for such...Sometimes ten months straight of trekking,hunting for the camp and chasing bulls,
the lighter carrying,faster handling small bore magazine rifles, very much proved their worth and effectiveness.

When he was using a stand to shoot across the top of 14ft high grass,the light recoil small bores would make it
easier to get several quick well-aimed shots off, compared to a using bigbore.

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
and the .416's he never mentions at all, although we know he purchased two (several months apart) from the Rigby ledgers.

'Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter' is published in 1923, and Bell purchased the two .416 rifles in 1913.
He does briefly mention .416 cal in his book when talking about the brain-shot on elephant;


[QUOTE]"As regards rifles, I will simply state that I have tried the following : -416, -450/ -400, 360, 350, -318, 275 and -256.
- WDM Bell.
[end/QUOTE]

If we can speculate and draw conclusions from heresay, why can't we believe what the man wrote? Egos' i suspect

quote:

Ignored post by Charles Mc Williams posted 02 December 2014 04:02

Wow, there's a blast from the past. I assumed this account had been closed back when he was posting as Charles Mc Williams, Wynnwood, and Cats.