I have not been to Africa. I have only hunted essentially alone (never been guided) in Canada, lower 48 and Alaska. I watch OLN on TV. I see a PH with client and assorted native staff, riding in a truck until game is spotted. Then the PH emerges with a shooting stick and the client emerges with his rifle. The PH sets up the stick, and urges the client to take aim and shoot "THAT ONE". The client shoots. The animal falls. The smiling PH slaps the client's back and shakes his hand vigorously and repeatedly. The fellows in the truck (peanut gallery) grin, wave and yell. OK-everyone is happy. But, why are all these congratulations in order? What the H__ has the client done?? Afterall....the PH drove and/or spotted the game. The PH set up the stick in the best spot for the hunter to shoot from. The PH instructed the hunter as to which animal gets clobbered. The only apparent responsibility of the hunter was to pull the trigger!! I honestly (sincerely, folks) don't see what all the excitement is for. And I certainly don't see any reason to congratulate the "hunter".....except, maybe, for his choice of guide to get him to a decent animal. **OK**, now (everybody) tell me how full of s___ I am.

Nope. You're right. I'm convinced. I'm not going.
Dave
OBTW-I'm giving up fishing too, since according to conifer and TV you catch a fish on every cast, doncha' know.

Answering your question, I would say you are compeletely full of shit.....

I can’t tell if you’re looking for a fight or if that question is rhetorical.

But it sounds like you’ve hunted enough to know that all hunts are different. Some are easy, some aren’t. Sometimes you’re lucky, sometimes you aren’t.

Many people won’t shoot from near a car or in fenced areas.

I have some of the same questions about sitting near a feeder, watering hole or river crossing on certain hunts.

Just like not all N. American hunts are the same, neither are all African hunts.

To each our own.

All the best,
Kyler

You have it about right - but its still a fun thing to do as long as you don't get too hung up about having to be a great white hunter all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by conifer:
I have not been to Africa. I have only hunted essentially alone (never been guided) in Canada, lower 48 and Alaska. I watch OLN on TV. I see a PH with client and assorted native staff, riding in a truck until game is spotted. Then the PH emerges with a shooting stick and the client emerges with his rifle. The PH sets up the stick, and urges the client to take aim and shoot "THAT ONE". The client shoots. The animal falls. The smiling PH slaps the client's back and shakes his hand vigorously and repeatedly. The fellows in the truck (peanut gallery) grin, wave and yell. OK-everyone is happy. But, why are all these congratulations in order? What the H__ has the client done?? Afterall....the PH drove and/or spotted the game. The PH set up the stick in the best spot for the hunter to shoot from. The PH instructed the hunter as to which animal gets clobbered. The only apparent responsibility of the hunter was to pull the trigger!! I honestly (sincerely, folks) don't see what all the excitement is for. And I certainly don't see any reason to congratulate the "hunter".....except, maybe, for his choice of guide to get him to a decent animal. **OK**, now (everybody) tell me how full of s___ I am.

No one is twisting your arm to go, so don't go. Do something else with you time and energy.

I have been to Africa once and will probably not be able to afford to go again. My first day there, the PH and "peanut gallery" and I were driving around his 5000 acre concession and not seeing anything that I either wanted or could afford, the PH kept apologizing profusely for not having had a shot at anything. I told him that he needn't be concerned for me. I had already realized my fondest dream. After having read Robert Ruark, Frederick Selous, et al, just being in Africa, having a rifle in my hands and the ability to shoot some exotic animal, was all that I had ever dreamed of. The plethora of birds and animals that I had never seen before had me grinning from ear to ear for seven of the most wonderful days of my life. The fact that we did STALK and shoot Kudu, Wildebeest, Impala and Zebra just put icing on the cake. I was 64 then and if I never go back I will have those dreams with me for the remainder of my life. I thank God I was able to go and take my wife with me. She does not hunt or care about it but had a wonderful time touring that exotic land.

quote:

Originally posted by conifer:
I have not been to Africa. I have only hunted essentially alone (never been guided) in Canada, lower 48 and Alaska. I watch OLN on TV. I see a PH with client and assorted native staff, riding in a truck until game is spotted. Then the PH emerges with a shooting stick and the client emerges with his rifle. The PH sets up the stick, and urges the client to take aim and shoot "THAT ONE". The client shoots. The animal falls. The smiling PH slaps the client's back and shakes his hand vigorously and repeatedly. The fellows in the truck (peanut gallery) grin, wave and yell. OK-everyone is happy. But, why are all these congratulations in order? What the H__ has the client done?? Afterall....the PH drove and/or spotted the game. The PH set up the stick in the best spot for the hunter to shoot from. The PH instructed the hunter as to which animal gets clobbered. The only apparent responsibility of the hunter was to pull the trigger!! I honestly (sincerely, folks) don't see what all the excitement is for. And I certainly don't see any reason to congratulate the "hunter".....except, maybe, for his choice of guide to get him to a decent animal. **OK**, now (everybody) tell me how full of s___ I am.

Your right. Its just good business on their part-make the customer happy, what else could they do? They cant tell the client their impala sucks. Its a dog and pony show just like casino's and cruise ships.

Well conifer, I havent been there yet, but my understanding is not all Africa hunts are like the scenario you described.

Some outfitters/ PHs will walk your legs off.
I think for instance PH John Sharp even advertises walking, stalking.

Some of the areas are so big you have to drive to get in the areas then spot and stalk and walk and walk. I like that scenario best. Allen

Conifer

The version that you see on TV has to be set up,introduced,build to a climax,and be resolved in about 17 minutes of actual air time.The hunt that you see may have actually taken a full day , or a week for that matter to get on tape.Then the stalk and shot are re-created to get a good camera angle and the propper lighting.Often this is filmed in a completely different location than where the shot really took place.Camera shots missed or taken in poor circumstance have to be re-shot until ,"They get it right".

In the actual stalk and shot of the animal there was no photographer walking along in front of the truck filming the hunter and PH looking for the animal.There was also no photographer walking along in front of the stalking hunters to photograph the stalk.

I thimk you should be getting the picture now.What you see on TV is not THE HUNT but a re-creation of a condensed version of a hunt.

After having made six trips tp southern Africa I can say that these TV hunts help to stir the memories of trips taken in the past, but they do make it seem pretty simplistic when taken on their own merit.

This past June hunted buffalo in Zimbabwe. After five days of the hardest hunting I've done in a long time, I finally was able to take my buffalo. There was nothing "staged" or easy about my hunt. You relly could have put your query in a less challenging way as it came across as sour ( green) grapes. jorge

Not everybody hunts like that in africa, you can if you choose to, or you can shoot from a truck or from a hide or from the veranda if you want. You can also choose to go and walk and stalk pick the animal you want to shoot and use your PH as a guide not as a crutch!!

On TV I see people from Texas wearing cowboy hats and chewing tobacco by using the conifer method i can construe everybody does. come on give me a break, TV is for entertainment not enlightenment!! jj

quote:

Originally posted by eyedoc:
Conifer

The version that you see on TV has to be set up,introduced,build to a climax,and be resolved in about 17 minutes of actual air time.The hunt that you see may have actually taken a full day , or a week for that matter to get on tape.Then the stalk and shot are re-created to get a good camera angle and the propper lighting.Often this is filmed in a completely different location than where the shot really took place.Camera shots missed or taken in poor circumstance have to be re-shot until ,"They get it right".

In the actual stalk and shot of the animal there was no photographer walking along in front of the truck filming the hunter and PH looking for the animal.There was also no photographer walking along in front of the stalking hunters to photograph the stalk.

I thimk you should be getting the picture now.What you see on TV is not THE HUNT but a re-creation of a condensed version of a hunt.

After having made six trips tp southern Africa I can say that these TV hunts help to stir the memories of trips taken in the past, but they do make it seem pretty simplistic when taken on their own merit.

eyedock

You let the cat out of the bag. Now he won't believe anything he sees on tv.

Are you actually confusing TV with reality??? Do you believe the TV shot of the client shooting is actually the shot at the animal? My god we are a TV nation.

I know for a fact Jorge busted his ass for his buffalo...John Sharp likes to stalk and walk..and walk..

I've only been once ... and very much want to go back.

The editing of footage to make interesting TV is probably most at fault for the impression you have. I'm sure that there are some hunts that are as bad as you seem to believe. That impression would certainly not be true of all hunts.

It would frankly take a very good editor to make good TV out of the spooking of Kudu by Zebra during other parts of our hunt ... it was exciting and aggravating and very memorable ... but tough to make into good TV.

The 2 1/2 days we tracked zebra afoot to get a good shot simply would not make very exciting TV. But it was a great hunt!

In our case, one of the first discussions we had with the PH was about what kind of hunting we wanted to do. We made it clear that we did not want to shoot from the truck, and very much preferred working some. As I am an older guy I appreciated the PH asking. I'm sure he has had older clients that did not want or might not have been able to do that.

Well my experience was much different, I lost one toenail and am about to lose another from a full day eland stalk.

I think you can arrange for yourself the kind of experience you're looking for. After all of my vast experience (1 trip to Namibia!), here's how my son and I did it. We chose a PH, hunting on his own 42 sq mile ranch, who didn't hunt out of or near vehicles.

We probably walked 10 miles a day, left the house at dawn and got back at dusk. We would drive to an area, then walk. My first jet lagged afternoon, I passed on a good kudu (best we saw the whole trip) that walked out in front of us and stared. I wasn't ready to hunt yet or close out my kudu in the 1st 15 minutes of hunting. My kudu (smaller, but grand nonetheless) was my last kill after about 15 blown stalks. I passed on the 1st day kudu because I hadn't earned it. The one I took was my trophy, just not measured in inches. I could have just followed my PH and tracker and let them do all the work, but I was determined to pull my load. The first day or so I saw nothing on my own because the terrain and animals were unfamiliar. By the end, I was spotting my fair share of animals first.

In the meantime, I was pestering my PH with questions about everything under the southern cross.

I guess it's like fishing too. I can tie my own flies and have a guide point out a general direction for me to cast or have him bait my hook and cast for me.

It's up to the hunter to make his own experience and choose PH/outfitters accordingly.

Bob

Don't get TV confused with real life. Most of the PH's believe in stalking and hunting for sport, not shooting. Hell if I believed the TV shows, it would only take a 30 minute hunt to knock down a 6x6 elk or 160 B&C whitetail. You know that's BS, so why do you take the African TV hunters for real. You will see more game in Africa than anywhere else, and you could blast from the truck if that's your style, it isn't mine.

quote:

Originally posted by conifer:
I have not been to Africa. I have only hunted essentially alone (never been guided) in Canada, lower 48 and Alaska. I watch OLN on TV. I see a PH with client and assorted native staff, riding in a truck until game is spotted. Then the PH emerges with a shooting stick and the client emerges with his rifle. The PH sets up the stick, and urges the client to take aim and shoot "THAT ONE". The client shoots. The animal falls. The smiling PH slaps the client's back and shakes his hand vigorously and repeatedly. The fellows in the truck (peanut gallery) grin, wave and yell. OK-everyone is happy. But, why are all these congratulations in order? What the H__ has the client done?? Afterall....the PH drove and/or spotted the game. The PH set up the stick in the best spot for the hunter to shoot from. The PH instructed the hunter as to which animal gets clobbered. The only apparent responsibility of the hunter was to pull the trigger!! I honestly (sincerely, folks) don't see what all the excitement is for. And I certainly don't see any reason to congratulate the "hunter".....except, maybe, for his choice of guide to get him to a decent animal. **OK**, now (everybody) tell me how full of s___ I am.

If you're talking about the show that was on OLN last night (on 10/27) where the client was hunting Kudu in Namibia, then I have to say I wasn't very impressed either. Really wasn't much of a hunt. But, like eyedoc said, you have to remember it was TV show.

I've been on three trips to hunt plains game in South Africa. Yes, it was on a fenced game farm (about 18,000 acres in size). I will say that my hunting was not that easy. I did tell my PHs that I did NOT want to shoot from the truck. We did a lot of walking and sitting in blinds. And, as bobc said, "you can arrange for yourself the kind of experience you're looking for." Like most anything in life, you get out of it what you put into it.

My two cents worth....
-Bob F.

Well....your letters (with the possible exception of monosyllabic "bwanahile" are logical...and appreciated. And it WAS last night's kudu "hunt" that was vomit material. Gentlemen...I LOVE this web-site!!!

How's about an impudent question about North American "hunting". Do you think OLN's or the others North American hunts reflect their true "feel".

Been to Africa twice, never used shooting sticks and no one stayed in the truck grinning or otherwise.

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

The 10 days I hunted in Africa were the hardest, best tracking hunting, that I've ever done. It isn't driving down a road and shooting stuff from the vehicle.

Would you suggest iron sights, off hand, Black Powder rifles only? At what point do you consider a hunt acceptable?

African hunting is not US meat hunts. It is trophy hunting. For what I pay for trophy fees, I wouldn't mind a good rest.

Of course you have to be quick on the setup in the case of a charging buff or hippo.

Conifer

I think I walked half way across Tanzania stalking Bufalo. After walking all morning, I crawled what seemed over a 100 yards through the nastiest shit in the world, got a good shot using a rock for a rest.

Then there was the Buff a 30 feet in the long grass..... Now, what are your thoughts?

One lure of Africa is the quantity of game. I've been on those 8% success rate elk hunts...no thanks!

Yes, it can be somewhat artificial at times, but there is a limited amount of time and every PH is under the gun to produce. Some hunts are easy and some are tough.

Just how far do you want to be "pure?" You could canoe across the Atlantic if you reaaly wanted to prove the point. But most hunts, here or in Africa are time limited, so you make the most of it at times.

I have to laugh at the car insurance companies and the game departments in the US when they complain about too many deer, or whatever. You can drive a thousand miles in the US and never see a wild animal!

I'll take Africa every time. Please stay home...there is too much competition already!

Hey, I have seen the same in Canada, the USA and about anywhere their is hunting, and if you have hunted as much as you say then you have too, but I doubt that you have hunted very much at all or you would know better.....

Come with me Jr. and hunt elephant, if you can walk 20 miles a day and sleep with Lions.

Conifer,

Consider buffalo hunting on very large concessions, it takes a vehicle to cover the roads/tracks looking for buffalo spore early enough in the day so you can catch them before the heat or swirling wind sets in. So you have at least of two hours or more of very active walking to get a look. Shooting from a vehicle--hardly. This can happen 2-3 times day and for quite a few days until you see a trophy bull. Multiply that by 4-5 times for elephant hunting.
The old timers did it by foot but had months to hunt and the fortitude to do it. Not many desk jockies and oldees were hunting Africa years ago in the old way.

Still a good PH will give you all the tracking and walking you can stand on a 14 day hunt and the camera man walks along with the rest of us, at least on my hunt.

Dak

If you saw it on TV what does that tell you!!

quote:

Originally posted by conifer:
I have not been to Africa. I have only hunted essentially alone (never been guided) in Canada, lower 48 and Alaska. I watch OLN on TV. I see a PH with client and assorted native staff, riding in a truck until game is spotted. Then the PH emerges with a shooting stick and the client emerges with his rifle. The PH sets up the stick, and urges the client to take aim and shoot "THAT ONE". The client shoots. The animal falls. The smiling PH slaps the client's back and shakes his hand vigorously and repeatedly. The fellows in the truck (peanut gallery) grin, wave and yell. OK-everyone is happy. But, why are all these congratulations in order? What the H__ has the client done?? Afterall....the PH drove and/or spotted the game. The PH set up the stick in the best spot for the hunter to shoot from. The PH instructed the hunter as to which animal gets clobbered. The only apparent responsibility of the hunter was to pull the trigger!! I honestly (sincerely, folks) don't see what all the excitement is for. And I certainly don't see any reason to congratulate the "hunter".....except, maybe, for his choice of guide to get him to a decent animal. **OK**, now (everybody) tell me how full of s___ I am.

UH-OH you figured us out. Really nothing to it, no fun at all, better to stay home and hunt whitetails. You can't even bring the meat home! Don't go!

I'll bet what conifer thinks was the hunt was when the hunter had to put down the young bull kudu that had been shot by a poacher then got caught up in the fence!

Dave

Conifer

Don't let them fool you. Cruiser Safaris happen a lot, it's just that most won't admit to it. A year or so ago we had a fella brag about chasing a Cape Buffalo into the corner of the fence and shooting it from the back of the Safari Car.

A hunt in Africa can be anything you want it to be. And when you get back you can remember it anyway you want to.

I have only been once (to Zimbabwe in '99), so take this with a grain of salt, but came away thoroughly disappointed. Much of the "hunting" was more or less as depicted in the show, i.e. glorified road-hunting. In fact, on several occassions I thoroughly pissed off my PH by refusing to shoot from his landcruiser! Granted, I had a young and over-eager PH who wasn't about to let some stupid rookie American tell him what to do, so my experience is probably not very representative. I would just be very careful in selecting a good PH and making my expectations very clear the next time. That being said, I would like to get back again someday, just not for plains game. I think hunting buffalo would probably not consist of glorified road hunting.

And as others have said, I think many high-priced guided American hunts don't make you work that hard either (of course with many exceptions). How can they if they routinely have 100% success given the sorry physical shape and shooting skills of a typical hunter?

quote:

Originally posted by Masterifleman:
I had already realized my fondest dream. After having read Robert Ruark, Frederick Selous, et al, just being in Africa, having a rifle in my hands and the ability to shoot some exotic animal, was all that I had ever dreamed of. The plethora of birds and animals that I had never seen before had me grinning from ear to ear for seven of the most wonderful days of my life. The fact that we did STALK and shoot Kudu, Wildebeest, Impala and Zebra just put icing on the cake. I was 64 then and if I never go back I will have those dreams with me for the remainder of my life. I thank God I was able to go and take my wife with me. She does not hunt or care about it but had a wonderful time touring that exotic land.

Masterifleman:

You are one of the few who feel the sacred flame of hunt ... the soul of the hunter ... hunting is basically that: about the chase of the hunt ... one might kill in order to hunt, should never hunt in order to kill ....

some of us hunt just to experience what you wrote in a magnific style, others just to show their trophies, somehow circumstancial and sometimes gotten in doubtful ways ....

I can undertsand conifer ´s concerns, you just wrote THE answer ...

in fact, to each our own ... we all try to obtain (or gain) what we are looking for by the using the means we have at hand ...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Come with me Jr. and hunt elephant, if you can walk 20 miles a day and sleep with Lions.

Hey Ray !!!
That´s the most wonderful description I have heard in a loooonnnng time !!
You convinced me!
I am going to check all my available savings ... perhaps I might book an elephant / lion hunt for 2008 (if my wife let me so, of course ) with you !!!!

I agree with Mickey the hunt is anything you want it to be. Just got back from my 6th trip. Go with little expectation and the Godess Diana will provide. Pick one animal you really want, don't go with a shopping list. If you want 10 animals in 8 days the PH will find them for you and they will be "good representives of the species", they will NOT be good trophies. The hunt is more than the word, it is the smell, the talk, the blacks, the food, the bushmans TV, the tales, and the experience. NEVER shoot out of the truck, be prepared for all eventualities, practice shooting looooong distances, get in shape, don't drink TOO much, don't piss anyone off, treat everyone as you want to be treated and enjoy the best there is.....Africa.

Afrikaander,
Always glad to oblige it keeps the wolves from my door and the kids fed, even though they are married and have kids of there own!!

This bugs me. because the implication inherent to this type of post is that in order to be a real hunter, your hunting must somehow be about accomplishment. What a crock.

Somewhere along the line, I realized something. Which is this: there is no law that says every hunting trip has to be about accomplishment. Maybe it's my job, where every day I need to accomplish milestones, and every year I need to accomplish the completion of projects. After a bit, I get sick and freakin' tired of everything having to be about accomplishment, and when recreation time rolls around, it's time for something other than accomplishment as far as I'm concerned.

Don't get me wrong, I love the challenge of taking a 3 1/2 or older whitetail with a bow - in my mind there is no bigger challenge. But I equally love an easier hunt, which I found in Africa (without shooting from the cruiser). It doesn't have to always be about thumping one's chest about walking the furthest, making the most difficult shot or...fill in the blank. What in god's name is wrong with just spending a day outside, learning about another culture chatting it up with the "peanut gallery", and enjoying the total experience? Let's be honest, and I risk alienating myself, but it must be said: killing any animal, no matter how challenging the hunt may be, is not that big a deal. Curing cancer, that's an accomplishment. Turning a child into a contributing member of society, that's an accomplishment. Making someone else feel special, needed and loved, that's an accomplishment. Killing a big animal, nope, not that big an accomplishment.

Well Put.

Unfortunately that's not how the Safari Industry operates.

It used to be the PH, the client and a tracker. Fly camps and tent camps that moved around the concession.

Now you have to haul around a whole village and sleep in a 4 star motel to be happy.

Times have changed, for the worse.

I have hunted Zimbabwe, several times, and each was a challenging and physically demanding experience.

I could have done SOME (but not all) of it easily, from a vehicle, but that is not how I like to hunt.

At the same time, some of the game I have hunted, including Cape buffalo and elephant, do not obligingly stand next to the tracks saying "shoot me, shoot me" and you have no choice but to put in some very, very long, hard and thirsty miles before getting a shot at them.

Here is Australia there are many shooters who shoot EVERYTHING from a vehicle but there are also many hunters who venture into rough country looking for trophies that know how to stay away from road and tracks. I'll even bet that there are some Americans who do their hunting from vehicles, but there are also many who hunt long and hard on foot.

Essentially, what I am trying to say is that worldwide there are places and people who will allow you to shoot from a vehicle, or from the vicinity of a vehicle, but that doesn't mean that everyone does, nor does it mean that that is all you have to do to get a great trophy and have a memorable hunt.

Most African PHs would walk most of us tourist hunters into the ground. And here is a challenge for you - book yourself an African hunt and tell your PH that you want to hunt hard and for the best trophies and that is exactly what he will do for you - and, sitting on a sunburnt hill, footsore, thirsty, bleeding from many vicious, thorn cuts, with many miles to go to get back to the vehicle or camp, and you may even regret asking for a big kudu or a 50lb plus elephant, but you will know that there are very few hunters, anywhere, who can look down on your hunt and the only people who could trivialise it are those who have never done it!