I bet this won't be popular with the Booking agents or outfitter on this site, but I think next year about July you will see a flood of fantastic
discount hunts pop up on this site. Seemed like more than usual towards the end of this year. For those that never thought they could afford Africa Just wait until July and make the guy offering the hunt an offer. With the world now in a slump. I think the hunting companies are going to be hurting.

jeff h,

Not popular? Yes!

True? That remains to be seen. IMHO you are probably quite correct to say that "some" Hunting Outfitters" are going to be hurting.

The whole world over companies that don't sell really critically required goods - of which sport hunting is one - are going to be hurting. Will that cause the prices at which hunting is offered to go down significantly? That really remains to be seen! I run one, and I know quite a few other Hunting Outfitters, who operate on very modest profit margins. Most of these are not going to drastically reduce their profit margins - there simply is not enough "padding" to absorb such price cuts. What they will do is try to reduce their prices, but couple it to significant reductions in their expenses.

It had been said often in discussions about hunting costs that some HO's charge high Daily Rates and lower Trophy Fees, while with some others the reverse seems to be true. Having made an extensive study of what HO's charge it is clear to me that there are two more categories: Those that charge high Daily Rates and high Trophy Fees as well as those that charge reasonable rates for both. Now I ask anyone to guess where the real big [?] profits are made – where the prices are high, or where the prices are reasonable?

All HO’s will attempt to reduce overhead costs as one of the means to keep on making the same profit that they got used to if they have to reduce prices in order to compete for clients on a cost basis. You will likely see a flood of headings that contain words like “special offers†or “unbeatable offer†or “very good offer….†Or “ discounted hunt….†In the heading of postings on the “Oufitters - Offered and Discounted Hunts†Forum here on AR. You will also more and more see the words like "cash bar available" or "everything except alcoholic liquor" and similar indications that HO's are trying to cut costs in advertising material. You will also see “exclusions†and additional charges for aspects that are now usually covered in the Daily Rate or Trophy Fees. You can expect Trophy Fees to be reduced, but then see new cost items like a “skinning feeâ€, or a fee for â€delivery to taxidermistâ€.

What really bothers me is the fact that I simply do not know what is going to happen to those major cost items over which the typical HO has no control. Fuel is a big cost item and IMHO the world fuel prices are going to keep on going up! HO’s will have to reduce the use of vehicles on safaris – which is a good thing as more real hunting by walking will then take place. Liquor can be a very significant cost item, as said, some will provide cash bars in order to exclude the provision of this potentially costly service as part of the Daily Rates.

Trophy fees? What can one say about the future expectation on Trophy Fees that many HO’s have to pay landowners? If the whole of Southern Africa experience a normal rainfall year, many game farmers will simply not sell at reduced rates. Given a normal or good rainfall year they will have enough grazing to tide the increased populations over for another season. What then?

The really biggest unknown on the cost of hunting by overseas clients is the exchange rate. Now, at approximately R10.00=$1.00 the prices that were decided on when the exchange rate was hovering around R 6.00=$1.00 should come down by about 40%. Andrew McLaren Safaris quotes his offers in rand, and have thus indeed reduced the cost by about 40% already. But what happens if the exchange rate goes back to R6=$1? I also predict that you will see more qualifiers about exchange rate fluctuations in the price offers made by HO’s.

Yes, hard and tough times lie ahead for many in the hunting business - be they on the offering side, or the buying side. The buyers will have less money to spend, and they will
spend less. Economic common sense dictates that less money chasing the same amount of goods will result in a reduction of the cost of the goods. If they are also getting less that's fine. But if they demand more for spending less? Well some HO's can reduce overheads a lot, and pass the lower costs to the clients.

Everyone will probably "learn as you go"?

You can bet that I hope that the reputation that I have tried to earn the hard way by my former clients as a “Hunting Outfitter that provides good value for money†will help to see that I continue to get a fair share of the hunters who still have a bit of money to spend in the tough times ahead. What the guys who have been cashing it in will do is something they should remark on!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

jeff h,

I think Andrew McClaren is right. When I have booked hunting trips, I have gone with really good outfitters and not tried to chisel and dime them.

Neither of my HOs in Africa (Amanita Safaris in RSA and Russ Broom Safaris in Zimbabwe) tried to economize on the fuel. They could have. But they knew where the best chance to get trophies was and that's where we went.

My favorite story involves an elephant I wounded. That night we had two of Broom's employees in camp for another reason. They volunteered that one of them would charter an airplane to fly out from Harare and pick him up while the other one drove back to Harare (a 7-hour drive). The guy in the airplane would fly around ahead of us and see if he could spot the elephant before the plane headed to Harare. This airplane found the elephant dead, which is what my PH had predicted.

You know how much they charged me for chartering this airplane? Zero!

So where do you want them to cut costs?

My only surprise in settling up the bill was after I decided to tip the PH and the staff the maximum suggested by Atcheson's, my booking agent. The PH suggested an additional tip for the trackers, as opposed to considering them part of the staff. I gave them each $200 at his suggestion. I thought their work was excellent and I want them to be there if and when I return.

A few years ago I booked an elk hunt with Cabela's. The Cabela catalog was quite explicit. You could pay about $4,000 or you could pay about $12,000 and they described the type of elk you were likely to find. I paid about $8,000. Of the six of us staying at the ranch house, one guy got a 6x5 and five got 6x6s. The previous week six guys got five total elk, all 5x5 or bigger.

The day before I shot my elk, we got about 20 yards from a 5x5. The guide could have saved himself some trouble by telling me to shoot that one, how good it was, etc. But he didn't. Where do you want this outfit to cut corners?

My four friends found a "bargain" elk hunt. They drove out west and hired a wrangler to pack them up into the mountains and pick them up a week later. The first night it snowed about 30 inches. They didn't see an elk.

quote:

My four friends found a "bargain" elk hunt. They drove out west and hired a wrangler to pack them up into the mountains and pick them up a week later. The first night it snowed about 30 inches. They didn't see an elk.

Been there, done that. I find that in hunting, like most other things, one generally gets what they pay for.

I think Jeff is probably correct that there will be some good deals from cancellations and the like as the economy goes further into the shitter.

Andrew I agree you might just see offers like this

day fees 100USD
prices exclude the following
all transport all camps is self catering with a cash bar skinning will be done at 50c per square inch.

delivery to taxidermist at R3 per KM
chair hire at 10usd per day

Guys not wishing bad things for any hunting company or booking agent. Facts are facts DG hunting is very expensive. Really few can afford it.
I have personally booked 2 cancellation hunts. Both the very best outfitters in all of Africa. Both of them I see on TV very often, one every week. I could have never afforded the list price. Got them both for better than 50% off. Shot my lion in Tan. and another ele. this year in Bots. I was just saying to keep your ears open and I believe you can score some good deals. You just need to be able to travel at a months notice.
Andrew heard nothing but good things about you and your operation and wish you the best.

Jeff,
your very intuitive. My phone is ringing now with offers from guys I know wanting to fill new holes. Zim is already cheap just to get guys there, Tanz., Zambia and maybe bots will have to discount. RSA is so very competitive now they probably can't do much but offer some free shooting maybe. RSA game aution prices will drop due to demand which in turn will lower the cost of the P&T guys. It's all simply supply and demand.

Well I hope the best for all of us. As a hunter I like to see prices decrease but frankly except for the really top end operators I think that profit margins are thin already.

There does come a point at which there is no longer an economic incentive to continue on with sport hunting.

I'm worried that if we don't get some stability in currencies times are going to get very tough for every one. It is just about impossible to do business when no one knows from one day to the next what the dollar is worth or what it's relationship is with other currencies. That problem is not just going to affect hunting it is going to touch every one.

Let's hope and continue hunting .

Well! I know that what I say may be suspect as I have a commercial interest here but I do not see a big drop in prices in the near furture. I think if people are waiting to book a safari because they assume there will be a flood of deeply discounted hunts they are fooling themselves. There will be some cancelations and discounted hunts as always but will these hunts be what a guy wants or at a time that he can do the hunt?

We work with 3 operators in Zim and all have now given us their '09 pricing. All are increasing prices and one is at $1250 per day for a short buffalo hunt. I just can't imagine them doing this if they anticipated a significant drop in bookings.

Book now, avoid the price increases, get the dates you want and the quota you need.

Mark

Mark,

Maybe you are right, but when car sales are off record levels, home sales are off record levels, major institutions are laying off thousands (Citigroup announced today 53,000 more layoffs), the major automobile manufacturers are teetering on bankruptcy and the recession is worldwide and expected to last as long as 14 months, I think anyone running a business like the outfitting business that is so dependent on discretionary income, that is not planning for business to be softer in 2009 may not be acting in a completely rational way. Whether they change prices is another matter, but demand is almost certainly going to be down, just like it will be for vacation homes, boats, single engine aircraft, expensive vacations in Europe, etc.

+1.

When the season starts winding down and there are hunts available there will be discounts. happens every year.

I have a good friend that owns a very successful fishing lodge. Last week he refunded $100,000 in deposits. All saying they might rebook but for now there is too much un-certainy with the economy and not just in the USA. He has been booked usually one to two years out for quite some time. Not anymore.

There will be some deals for those that want to afford it. There will be some deals for those that can come on short notice. These deals will take place because 70% or even 50% of a dollar is better than 0%. Will this make hunting better, NO of course not, but business is driven by the economy and hunting in this arena is business. We are in for a difficult time world wide, some will have money, some will hold their money, some will invest (buy low) their money, but a great deal of people won't have the money they had last year or the year before.

Any operator has every right to charge what ever they want for the services they provide!!!
Just as any consumer has the right to buy or not to buy !
Let me put it this way, I bought a new flat screen TV the other day , I looked at the same TV at two diff store's one charged $1500 the other $900 guess wich one got my biz.

But I also admit I'm the kinda guy that if I'm gonna save a couple grand on a hunt by drinking beer and not Champagne crap pass the Lager.....

B.Watson,

You make an excellent point. You bought the SAME television for a substantial discount. As for safaris I don't think you are going to buy the SAME safari at a discount price that you would get a higher price.

I'm only saying what my experience is to date on the agent side of the business.

Mark

I generally believe you get what you pay for as well, but I have also noticed some operators increase their trophy fees, etc. when they take over a new area. I hunted Kigosi in 2005; had a very good hunt for a very reasonable price. I got an email from the "new" booking agent who is now representing the area. Prices went up substantially - over double what I paid. I know trophy fees have increased, but even considering this, the fees went up a huge amount.

In the past two years I have booked two great hunts: shot a 61inch moose (you can see it on the inside cover of Atcheson's catalog) and a very nice 6x7 elk that scores well over 330. Cost for the hunts was 6500 and 5000 respectively. Both camps were comfortable with excellent food.

In 2009 I am hunting Masailand for two buffalo; incl trophy fees the cost is 25k. The hunt is with Luke Samaris. I know you can hunt with others in Masailand, but it will cost a lot more.

As for the economy, there will no doubt be a reduction in hunt demand. For the truly wealthy, it might not matter - the cost of a 21 day is still lost in the noise of day to day dealings. But the number of folks here is quite limited.

I will not cancel my 09 hunt, but I am not booking anything right now, even though my business profit this year will increase more than the cost of a lion hunt in Zambia. Who knows what will happen, but I would rather keep everyone employed than layoff someone and then book a 21 day hunt. Some things just don't seem right...

New Zealand hunting began to feel the pain this past Spring. Cancellations and refunds. It is continuing. Africa will also get bit, if it hasn't already.

One of the problems, in my view, is that HO in Africa believe all Americans are rich. Yeah, I know that's a blanket statement, but I've done over a dozen safari in many sub-Saharan countries with many outfitters, both large and small. I know the business and have acted as a consultant/booking agent for both clients and HO, and I absolutely believe this to be true. I've seen the pendulum swing. Consequently, it may take longer for African HO to realize the truth about the U.S. economy and the effect it is having on the middle class.

Secondly, over the past three years, some African governments have gotten wise to the license v. trophy fee discrepancy charged by HO, and have raised License fees accordingly. This in turn caused the HO to raise their trophy fees to maintain their profit margins in what could become a never ending vicious circle. This is a self-defeating proposition and has already started pricing middle class U.S. hunters out of the African safari market. Since most HO seem to be at odds with government game/hunting/land management, it is going to take some years for this to work itself out into some kind of equity for all concerned.

I don't know any poor African HO. Airplanes, helicopters, boats, farms, city houses and staff. Don't tell me about the Rand v. Dollar rate. How will you continue without the U.S. middle class hunter who can no longer afford current safari prices or who make their one dream safari and never return?

OK, your turn.

anyone , anywhere in the world selling anything , is going to get the most that they can for what they are selling and will only reduce the prices when they cant sell enough ...

I have never been an outfitter though obviously have worked very closely with many of them and i will say this ,when its good , its real good , but when its bad its VERY bad so quite a risky investment to say the least. there is a good margin for those who are good business people and thats no different to any other industry.

Just my 5 cents worth but i believe that the top outfitters wont be dropping prices.

There will always be the lucky few who get a great last minute deal in a great area.