I have always been curious as to the pay PH's receive from their companies (not tips). I know that the pay scale will fluctuate depending upon PH experience, time with company, etc. Could you in the business, please enlighten me, as to the actual "average" pay scales (high and low) for a PH in Zimbabwe and Tanzania. I thank you in advance for your assistance.

Zimbabwe:- Standard is US$100 per day and US$50 if you provide the vehicle.

The problem is- what does $100 a day equal in actual cash when you get paid. Actual income is about $70 per day and less if you make the mistake of providing the vehicle (unless it is an old landrover).

Isn't there normally a different salary scale for plainsgame safaris & dangerous game safaris?

DB there used to be- becuase we had an oversupply of PH's looking for work and $80 a day was ok. With our dual exchange rate- official went to 24000:1 on thursday and Black Market to 60,000:1 that nolonger applies.

However, some operators use hunters with "c" restricted licences or holders of a Learner PH licence only to conduct plainsgame safaris. This is legal, where there are no dangerous game for the client to encounter. Appy's are lucky to get $30 a day for conducting a hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
DB there used to be- becuase we had an oversupply of PH's looking for work and $80 a day was ok. With our dual exchange rate- official went to 24000:1 on thursday and Black Market to 60,000:1 that no longer applies.

Ganyana, what you are saying is that the Zim PH's are now paid "$100 US/day", BUT that it is no longer paid in US dollars but in Zim Dollars and at the official bank rate (24000:1), which is less then if the PH's were paid in US and exchanged it on the black market. Correct?

Where's the Professional Hunters Association in all this?

The bottom line is that the tip is a very important part of a PH's income.

Bill,

That is what I was told in Zim this year. $100/day for the PH and $50/day for his cruiser. That's the same amount they have been receiving since 1989. They are paid in Zim Dollars at the official bank exchange rate. According to some, the Professional Hunters' Association is weighted a bit heavy in the direction of the outfitters, although Sally Brown was spoken of highly. According to what I was told, there are plenty of PHs who don't have enough (or any work), so hard to ask for a raise when there are guys lining up to take your job at the current pay rate.

That is why the staff and PH's eyes light up when you hand them US Dollars at the end of the safari. Off to the black market to stuff their pockets full of Zim Dollars.

I am not certain, but I seriously doubt that every US Dollar that we pay to the outfitter gets exchanged at the official bank rate.

As you know, Zimbabwe is becoming a US Dollar based economy. When we exchanged some US Dollars at the Bulawayo airport (at the official currency exchange), we got the bank rate plus 25%, they were having a special that day. That is how hungry they are for US Dollars.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
Don't even think of taking Traveler's Checks to pay for the tips. Nearly impossible for the PH and staff to get those cashed, according to what I was told.

All depends I supose, on how good a PH you are, whether you work perminantly for a company or are just doing a contract hunt.

Many of the operators are crying about the "lack of Loyalty" from the PH's they employ. If you want loyalty- pay for it, and some operators do.

I never ceased to be amaized at the number of operators who do actually change all their money at the bank rate, when, infact, there are options to utilise 80% of the hard currency banked for essential operational imports- which can then be sold on. What it does mean is your hunting company becomes involved in many "non core Business" activities, like fuel imports, a gun shop, etc

Consiquently, these operators pay a blend rate (currently about 30,000:1). Still, it meand that actual purchacing power of your $100 a day is only $50. better than the effictive $40 a day if the operator pays you at the bank rate, but even so... And I, for one amongst many, am not going to try and run my vehicle for an actual income of US$20-25 a day.

So, the pendulum is swinging back towards the PH's favour. There is a shortage of top PH's and many of them are saying, I want an actual $100 bill in my hand or the full black market equivalent per day, or I don't do the hunt - find somebody else. The hunts I have done this year have been on that basis and after much hand wringing and wailing, furious calls to try and find anybody else, I have got the pay I wanted.

I don't see Zim catching up in rates of pay with either Mozambique ot Tanzania any time soon, but once the great leader, "Brother of Jesus, son of God" actually goes for a face to face consultation things will stabilise again.

Ganyana, is it possible to come to an agreement with the operator to pay PH fees directly and adjust daily rates to suit as I use one guy in particularly, or is this something they would not agree to?
Cheers, Adam C.

Adam

It is not legal for a PH to be paid in US$ unless he has a registered safari company - and for many small guys it isn't worth the hassel.

If the PH books the hunt, the operator should give him the agency commission on the daily rate, which is a whole new ballgame!

Many of the PH's I know aren't on salary at all. They have their own concessions and negotiate percentages that travel agencies recieve to manage bookings for them. In fact, I was under the impression that most of the PH's worked under this arrangement. Have I encountered just a select few?

A good PH in Tanzania hunting 21 day safaris can make between US$35,000 to US$50,000 from a FULL season. Less if not fully booked. Must supply own vehicle but fuel is supplied.

The RSA outfitter I recently spoke to pays PH's $100 per day [+ fuel on site, and pays the tracker as well] - The PH must supply a modern, first class double cab bakke, with AirCon. He must pay his own insurance, repairs, tires [2 sets per year], shocks etc.

I looked at some RSA vehicle prices while I was there - YIKES! the new style Toyota Double Cab Diesel top of the line Bakke is about R400,000. [$63,000].

The VW Tuareg[?] SUV was R480,000 [$76,000].

Les

As 500 grains said, tips makes a good difference in a ph income.

L

Most PH vehicles (the hunting cars) are not top of the line 4WDs but older vehicles. Myself I have never been in an air-conditioned hunting car except for the fact most have no roof or walls.

US$100 a day is probably on the upper side for South African PH's. In terms of numbers there are probably more PH's in SAf (8,000 +) than international clients (say 7,000) per year. At least from some numbers I saw last year.

Some of the TZ safari companies provide vehicles for the PH's. TGT, for example, keeps their Land Cruisers for 4 years each and cycles through a load of them each year. There is a big demand for them as they come into the secondary market by the other safari companies, but if my experience was any indication, the company owned vehicles get abused much more than those owned by the PH's themselves. That said, the PH-owned vehicles seem to rely on a more haphazard maintenance schedule, have lousy tires, get lots more flats, ect than those maintained in a fleet that also enjoy the heavy-duty 16-ply tires that can drive over most anything.
Those PH's that have a vehicle provided and work for the higher-end companies can make a good living. Some live in England or the US during the off-season where they communicate with their clients, market as needed, plan, and coordinate future hunts. Others hunt with different safari companies in places like Zim that have open seasons outside of what's offered in TZ. It all adds up to a pretty decent living compared to most opportunities in Africa for these guys.

I suppose I was rounding up after doing the exchange rate on my $100 per day! As I recall they actually said R550 or R600 per day, which depending on the exchange rate...

With a 12 hunt practical maximum per season, [8-10 more likely] that equals less than $12000 annual income before taxes and vehicle expenses.

Surprisingly I agree with 500grains on this subject! The tips are very important to the PH's survival in that business!

Les

Whatever it truly is, it is not enough. Those guys work hard.

I don't know any PHs that make $35,000 to $50,000 a season in Tanzania even if you count tips...I also don't know what doing 21 day hunts has to do with it...7 and 10 day hunts are just as important to us as 21 day hunts and yes we are booked full every year with both...

Thats a lot of money, I would like to know who is making that kind of money over there, working for a Safari Company...It seems totall out of context to what I know of the Safari business.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I don't know any PHs that make $35,000 to $50,000 a season in Tanzania even if you count tips...I also don't know what doing 21 day hunts has to do with it...7 and 10 day hunts are just as important to us as 21 day hunts and yes we are booked full every year with both...

Thats a lot of money, I would like to know who is making that kind of money over there, working for a Safari Company...It seems totall out of context to what I know of the Safari business.

Directly from a PH. Not from a booking agent (ie the "us" above).

Ray as far as TZ goes, I believe the well known ph's turn over between $25K and $45K with tips, commissions, etc. What actually remians in their pocket once all costs are deducted now that is different.

Don't forget though that most of them have no maintenance costs during the season other than cigarettes and a bit of TLC in between trips

I have been in business for a long time, guess somebody has got more information than I....

The only PHs that could even come close to that kind of money would be the ones at TGT, and most of that money would be tips I suspect and from the very influential clients they cater to IMO...Albeit none of us can make an educated guess on tips, there is just too much dispersion there...

Tanzania season last from July to Oct. 31 for all practical purposes, That is roughly 20 to 30 hunters and observers, The very best of PHs make $300 per day for 90 to a 120 days, while most make $100, and many of those days they are not booked to hunt and they sit in Dar in hotel rooms waiting for a job to come up or live with eac other in rented houses..

Most work a total of 30 to 45 days a season they tell me, and most make about $18,000 and tips, but much of that is taken up in gas that may or may not be furnished by the Safari company, hotel rooms,meals, and airline tickets from Tanzania to Zim or RSA and back...I could rattle on for another 20 pages but this is how it really is....

I don't understand, what's wrong with a PH earning a decent living?

Using some numbers. Per RA a PH might make $300 a day. If they worked for the full season (say July 1 to Oct 31) $300 x 17 weeks is $35,000. 17 weeks is about 5 and a bit 21 day safaris.

Now if they only work a month to a month and a half, who on earth would expect a big annual salary out of that short working period. For such a short working period they would really have to add up whether buying an expensive PH licence for Tanzania is money well spent ??? Plus getting their vehicle to Tanzania.

Usually outfitters supply the fuel.

A sticky point is days when there are no clients there is no pay. Sitting in the bush and earn nothing.

Why did I mention 21 day safaris before? It is pretty common that 21 day safaris are charged to the client at a greater price per day than say a 15 day or 7 day safari. I would hope the PH also earns a higher daily rate if I was a client paying more per day???

An interesting comparison. If a PH earns $300 a day, that works out at $2100 a seven day week. If they are making a lousy $100 a day, that's only $700 for the week. And has to provide a vehicle at that rate and pay several grand for the annual PH licence.

The outfitter grosses $12,000 plus (based on 7 and 21 day prices) but must cover all sorts of expenses.

A booking agent for the same period pockets a minimum of $1850.

Something wrong in that equation don't you think? PH gets $700 to $2100 while the agent gets $1850 !!!!!

quote:

Something wrong in that equation don't you think? PH gets $700 to $2100 while the agent gets $1850 !!!!!

NitroX

I can assure you our commission is no where near $1850 on a 10 day hunt let alone a 7 day that I think you are talking about regardless of country.

Regards,

Mark

About the same as what some of the elk guides I know make. 100 dollars a day gee's I would not even flip the starter switch on a helicopter for that. What some one is worth or not worth is a subjective thing. We grow up, you don't really make a living as a ph or hunting or fishing guide, unless you become an outfitter or what have you, have you noticed that a lot of them write and become published authors? Its a life style thing, can't be the money. So make sure your ph or guide this year recives a bit more in the envelope. I know a fishing guide, that guides on the San Juan, its just him, and his truck and drift boat. Loves wade fishermen like me. Charges 270 a day supplies flies and lunch, booked solid for 225 days a year, spends 60 days a year, maybe not this year in New Orlean playing trumpet. He is a very happy man.

AR Guests /

I have been trying to tell our esteemed hunter guests for years that Outfitters, PH's other Africa Hunting operators in general DONT make a lot of money out of hunting per se, but there are those whom keep saying operators in Africa are charging like a wounded bulls and making a fortune out of hunting ...

The truth of the matter is MOST do it as a (lifestyle choice) and not to get rich as they will NOT get rich UNLESS they occasionally fall with their bum in the butter OR have some damn good luck along the way, there are exceptions but few and far between

It is (bloody expensive to operate in Africa ) under very trying political and other local but not related logistics considerations //

For private ranchers whom own their own land like my brother the only way he can make some money is by selling game animals, not by hunting per se

I have often challeged the detrarctors to start from scratch and buy a property build the lodges and operate a business and then report back to me on the profits made in the first couple of years ... BUT for some unknown reason they dont take up my challenge but sit back in an armchair and say we Africa Operators collectively are gouging the client

PS: George Semel /

Hi George how are you keeping, did you ever make it out to Africa to do some commercial flying or did that venture not come to fruition in the end as when last we talked you had some interest in Zambia I thought !!

Peter

Peter

I'm afraid that i don't understand this discussion. At $300 per day, for a full 120 days, that's $36,000. $100 per day for a 120 day season is $12,000. I am assuming that this goes further in Africa than it does in the USA. The issue is not "gee, they aren't making much" the issue is where is the rest of the $850 per day that I pay for my DG hunt going? These guys work their butts off. These guys supply the truck etc. etc. Someone is making out like a bandit. Who? The booking agent says "Not me". The PH says "Not me" Who is left?
Peter.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I can assure you our commission is no where near $1850 on a 10 day hunt let alone a 7 day that I think you are talking about regardless of country.

Mark

21 day safari advertised by a prominent outfitter here on AR - price $36,000 +. One week $12,000 x 15% commission = $1800.

$36G for 21 days is about $1700 a day. Not an unusal daily rate for a 21 day safari in Tanzania.

15% is pretty standard commission rate on daily fees. Nowadays some agents are trying to add-on their commissions to trophy fees as well.

As for the PH salary $300 + per day is the number I was quoted by an actual PH hunting in Tanzania (ie $50,000 from an 'extended' season). Nothing theoretical about it at all or "out of context". Bwanamich basically confirmed it. I don't know how much of this is made up by "tips" as I'm not very interested in that subject. Of course there are differences. I think I specified a "good PH who does a lot of 21 day safaris" as the criteria.

I was very surprised they make that much, as I know PHs in South Africa make around $12,000 and need a second job out-of-season.

I may sign off this thread after this. A member asked a question and I posted a simple answer to it and got challenged as to bullshit or not.

Nitro's numbers look pretty accurate to me. As he said, the unknown factor would be the number of inactive days between safaris. In my limited experience, the safaris I have gone on, the PH was dropping off somebody when he picked me up, and picking somebody up when he dropped me off, but this may not always be the case. In addition to the regular pay, I would think the PH would be able to average $1000 to $1500 a week in tips. If you go by some of the threads posted here and the "suggested" tip list that is furnished, that would be more than reasonable in the "premiun" destinations. I know hunters who in addition to tips, like to give their PH's double rifles, and take them on vacation to places like Hawaii or Las Vegas when they visit the states. I think they certainly earn every penny they get paid, whatever it may be.

Wow, there seems to be an impression that PH's are making WAAAYYY more than happens in the real world. 35-50K? hah? $1,000 to $1,500 in tips a week? Almost never, double rifles or even a plain bolt or nice binos, forget it.
The $100 per day rate is right on for most of the world and that typically is a 16 HOUR DAY.
Tips are closer to $200 a week and lots of hunters, especially non-Americans tip NOTHING. Most PH's aren't going to tell you how much they make, BECAUSE ITS EMBARRASSING!

I paid $750 a day for my DG hunt, and tipped my PH $100 a day. I tipped the boys $100 each.

Regardless of how the math broke down, and who gets what, everybody seemed pretty happy with arrangement, especially ME!

I made a friend for life, and I cannot wait to return next summer for more of the same.

If you give me $100/day I'll be your friend too.

NitroX

Not trying to start any type of pissing contest myself. Your math is correct but if the hunt is advertised at what works out to $1700 a day and I'm assuming this is a Tanzananian safari we are talking about there are several government fees that come out of that $1700 before the commission is figured. Also some companies such as ours include everything in the daily fee so there is no additional dip/pack, gun permits, hunting license, concession fees or conservation fees. Only after all those costs are subtracted is the commission figured.

I agree with you a PH that can get say 100 days a year in Tanzania can make a pretty good living by African standards particularly if he can book his own hunts and get that comission plus tips. Zim I think is a different story particularly now.

Regards,

Mark

It must also be considered that the $30M-$35M in earnings you are talking about is for only about 1/3 of their year. That obviously leaves the balance of the year for some variety of gainful employment. I doubt you'll find many of these sitting around playing on the computer all day like some of us seem to do...

The PH I had in RSA was an HR Director for a company in Capetown. He was a PH on the side, and a damn good one.

Every PH I have hunted with was worth the entire day rate. I thought they were great and I tipped accordingly. If they make $35,000 to $50,000 then more power to 'em because to us who hunt with that's a bargain. I'm going to safari the way I want and tip them what I can till I go broke. Then I going to get a job with Ray.

I see a lot of misconceptions being made by guess and by gosh...there is a lot of dispersion in the amount paid to PHs, would you think otherwise, in every business you get paid according to your experience and that includes PHs and booking agents so tossing around figures and saying 15% of the total price of a hunt is a joke, and just shows you how little some know about the business, nor is there any reason they should...

PHs make $100 to $300 per day, most make the latter, thousands can't even get a job....Many work for room and board just to get some experience. Every farmer in RSA and Zimbabwe is a PH these days...

Booking Agents salaries vari like hell but a rule of thumb coul be:
15% of the daily rate on a bigger hunt.
10% on Specials like a 7 0r 10 day buff special.
this is where commissions start and the more in demand a booking agent is the more he can charge, thats the American way and he probably earned that right, just like you in your business..

I won't discuss my business beyound those borders, Like Judge Roberts, it might come back to bite me..and I wouldn't ask any of you about your business and salaries, its none of my business....

Perhaps I will share a little more with you...

A lot of my business is not on a comm. basis..I may very well buy a number of elephants or Buffalo and pay a PH to to hunt my clients or some variation of such...I may also form a partnership in a Safari Company and split the expenses and the profits..In other words its a business to me, not a past time nor a part time job...Its easy to call yourself a bookin agent, hunt consultant or whatever other name you wish to use, not a regulated business and it has been horribly abused over the years and the internet has added greatly to the scam artists..and the wannabes that are just looking for a free hunt...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I see a lot of misconceptions being made by guess and by gosh...

Ray, you still show a distinct failure to actually read anything else others have posted.

Not by "guess and gosh" but by actually TALKING to the PH and what they say they get paid.

quote:

A lot of my business is not on a comm. basis..I may very well buy a number of elephants or Buffalo and pay a PH to to hunt my clients or some variation of such...I may also form a partnership in a Safari Company and split the expenses and the profits..In other words its a business to me, not a past time nor a part time job...

Nothing new to me here. I "gosh and guessed" as much some time ago.

Arguing salaries down and tips up is then good "business" hey?

But some of us actually come here just to have fun, a good time, chat to other hunters. Is it a crime to be here for enjoyment and fun, and not to be here only to make a buck?

Personally I try to keep the truth as much as I can. That way I am consistent in how I tell the "story" now, the past, and also in the future. I'd rather be a "wannabe" than a bullshit artist.