Not hard to see how the hunting groups are so ineffective . . . instead of divide and conquer, it is divide and ensure defeat. We have SCI, DSC, HSC, the National Wild Turkey Federation, the Wild Sheep Foundation, Ducks Unlimited, Quail Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the list goes on and on. Rather than combine efforts and mount a unified front, akin to the NRA, each seeks to advance its own parochial interests. Sort of hard to keep from getting depressed when you think about the long prospects of such a fragmented and disjointed approach.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Not hard to see how the hunting groups are so ineffective . . . instead of divide and conquer, it is divide and ensure defeat. We have SCI, DSC, HSC, the National Wild Turkey Federation, the Wild Sheep Foundation, Ducks Unlimited, Quail Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and the list goes on and on. Rather than combine efforts and mount a unified front, akin to the NRA, each seeks to advance its own parochial interests. Sort of hard to keep from getting depressed when you think about the long prospects of such a fragmented and disjointed approach.

I have put a lot of thought into this Mike. SCI would be a natural blanket organization primarily due to their Washington establishment. That is after all where the rubber meets the road with this. However Fiefdoms being what they are make this a difficult prospect. Quite simply it reminds me of being a kid and playing FORT. If you won't let me be in your fort, I will go start my own fort.

Jeff

And this slides to page 2 with a whimper....

The biggest difference I see between the NRA and the other organizations listed is the focus at a national level. The NRA's primary mission is to protect our right to own and bear arms. While they do much more such as support hunting, sanction competitive shooting, education, training, etc they remain focused on supporting our gun rights.

There is no national organization that has taken the NRA's role in supporting hunting rights. To some degree SCI has supported our rights but falls way short of the NRA not only in effort, but membership. I look at DU as more of a conservation group. The others seem to be local organizations and focused on their own interest.

I will visit with one of the board members at SCI about these concerns. I am certain he has heard what I will say already, but he will hear it again.

If you own a gun you should be in the NRA. If you hunt you should be in SCI. With enough ACTIVE grass root members we could force change, but it is much easier to whine and complain.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
The biggest difference I see between the NRA and the other organizations listed is the focus at a national level. The NRA's primary mission is to protect our right to own and bear arms. While they do much more such as support hunting, sanction competitive shooting, education, training, etc they remain focused on supporting our gun rights.

There is no national organization that has taken the NRA's role in supporting hunting rights. To some degree SCI has supported our rights but falls way short of the NRA not only in effort, but membership. I look at DU as more of a conservation group. The others seem to be local organizations and focused on their own interest.

I will visit with one of the board members at SCI about these concerns. I am certain he has heard what I will say already, but he will hear it again.

If you own a gun you should be in the NRA. If you hunt you should be in SCI. With enough ACTIVE grass root members we could force change, but it is much easier to whine and complain.

I will continue to say that they have the best basic infrastructure in place to build upon without having to reinvent the wheel.

Jeff

I can tell you all unequivocally that the NRA is getting involved in hunter rights. This is straight from the mouth of Jim Porter, the current president.

Their (SCI's) challenge is how do they pull in all the disparate groups that have their own donations, benefactors and parochial interests to protect (e.g. DU, RMEF, etc.). I think it would be highly doubtful for those groups to give up their turf. So that then leaves those groups, including SCI, to form some ad hoc group to address issues of a national concern with each of them having a voice in the national group. Sort of like Exxon/Mobil, Chevron and Shell all participating in a group like the American Petroleum Institute. Unfortunately I think several of these groups already believe (wrongly) they provide that role. So I am not very sanguine that would work. I am starting to believe that the only way to pull this off would be for the NRA to expand its mission to include hunting and then muscle the other groups on board. For the disparate groups to come together with some alliance in the absence of a major catalyst like the NRA, seems to me to be highly doubtful.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I can tell you all unequivocally that the NRA is getting involved in hunter rights. This is straight from the mouth of Jim Porter, the current president.

Absolutely fantastic news!

Hats off to those running the NRA!

When will we able to say this to those running SCI??

We live in hope!
But, I am not holding my breath!

This thread has provoked a lot of thought & discussion, whether anything good comes from it remains to be seen.
I do not see groups such as DSC, SCI, NWTF, DU and so on joining together, But I do see the NRA as a vehicle to put SOMETHING together that would be of great benefit to hunters.
A little thought for those thinking they should join forces: Can you imagine SCI giving any of it's clout to DSC? Or DSC falling in line behind SCI? DU sharing a fund raising event with the NWTF? AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!
But maybe, just maybe the NRA can pull the rabbit out of the hat.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

When will we able to say this to those running SCI??

We live in hope!
But, I am not holding my breath!

http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/advocacy/hdf

Hunters Defense Fund

SCI is "the blanket" that should represent with wisdom all hunting and hunters.

What needs to go with SCI is:

1) unethical and self-promoting leadership

2) The Record Books and Trophy System (this does harm to the hunting traditions and causes normal hunters to do stupid things)

3 Complete independent oversight of funds on both the National and Local levels. All funds raised should go to the support, development, and protection of hunting worldwide.


If these things were changed, SCI would become the Blanket we need it to be.

Wishful thinking I believe. What is the motivation for the other groups to give up turf to and align behind SCI . . . none. The difference with the NRA is that they are big enough and carry enough clout to force a resolution.

Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it SCI has forged very close ties with the NRA and other lobby groups in Washington.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it SCI has forged very close ties with the NRA and other lobby groups in Washington.

Matt,

My guess is that the NRA approached SCI because they are getting involved in hunting.

Not the other way around.

SCI is far too busy glorifying each other to do anything useful.

That is my guess anyway.

I would suppose I am more or less like the rank and file of SCI members. I have been a life member for somewhat over 20 years I suppose. I live in the area of their headquarters and watched it being built with all the attendent hoopla. I don't go to any monthly meetings,I read the magazine and newspaper and that is about it. I don't suppose I had ever heard a disparaging word about them till I became associated with this and one other African Hunting forums. I don't read it in the newspapers and cannot remember reading about all it's bad practices in any othe hunting periodical. Primarily only on here and actually on here only by a selected few that be counted on to bash them at every opportunity and even create some of the opportunities. I really hate to say it but I even like their magazine especially the new format and find myself going often to the Museum just to see the dioramas and refresh the memories of Africa. So I shall continue to belong (it costs me nothing as a life member) and actually believe they do more good than bad and how any American citizen can bash them and put up with the government we currently have is beyond me. I shall just try and ignore those on this forum who do the most bashing and enjoy those good parts of it.

Zimbabwe,

I agree with you the SCI does more good for hunting than bad.

I'm glad you expressed your opinion, and there are many who participate on AR who also support the SCI and appreciate your comments.

Naysayers are not uncommon in life, they find that criticizing makes them feel superior - a need that stems from insecurity. Insecurity - when over expressed - is an ugly unhappy feeling.

This is not to say that some things could be improved and need to be criticized, but I respect more, those willing to pitch in work and make things better - but, that takes time, effort, and work.

It's much easier to just naysay, especially on an internet forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Zimbabwe,

I agree with you the SCI does more good for hunting than bad.

I'm glad you expressed your opinion, and there are many who participate on AR who also support the SCI and appreciate your comments.

Naysayers are not uncommon in life, they find that criticizing makes them feel superior - a need that stems from insecurity. Insecurity - when over expressed - is an ugly unhappy feeling.

This is not to say that some things could be improved and need to be criticized, but I respect more, those willing to pitch in work and make things better - but, that takes time, effort, and work.

It's much easier to just naysay, especially on an internet forum.

The point is SCI can do an awful lot of good if they set their minds to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it SCI has forged very close ties with the NRA and other lobby groups in Washington.

Matt,

My guess is that the NRA approached SCI because they are getting involved in hunting.

Not the other way around.

SCI is far too busy glorifying each other to do anything useful.

That is my guess anyway.

'Guess' meaning you have no idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it SCI has forged very close ties with the NRA and other lobby groups in Washington.

Matt,

My guess is that the NRA approached SCI because they are getting involved in hunting.

Not the other way around.

SCI is far too busy glorifying each other to do anything useful.

That is my guess anyway.

'Guess' meaning you have no idea.

Yep, just like SCI

Check out the January issue of Americsn Hunter. There is an article about the NRA getting involved in hunting .

I got news for you... if it has anything to do with a gun... the NRA IS involved..

I have been a member of the NRA since i was 15, and I'm now over 60 and I never let it lapse.. started as annual member, then to life, and now Endowment. Dring that time I have belonged to other organizations as well. GOA, NAHC, SCI and a few others I can't recall at the moment..

The point is, the NRA IS the 800 pound gorilla in the room, and every added member give them a little more weight.

Sadly though, we are a divided group... all with our petty grievances against this organization or that one.. Nobody is willing to work them out, so we are divided.. If all these organizations were actually united under one leadership umbrella we would OWN congress!

I am a life member of the NRA, as well as SCI and RMEF. A few years ago I purchased NRA life memberships for my three sons. That's how important I believe the NRA is.

Zim
I wholeheartedly agree with you
I have been member of SCI only last five years and only hunted in a Africa three times, so not very experienced when it comes to that, but so far I like what I see
NRA member for long time as it is a must for every gun owner in USA, PERIOD AND NO EXCUSES