Rifle is 375H&H. Leaning towards 300gr in weight and either A-frame or PP North Fork. Opinions?

Choose the most accurate in your rifle.

Dieseltrucker,

Either bullet will be just fine. I killed my first lion with an SAF and the second with the NF. One shot each. They don't kill that hard.

Mark

Lion are lightly constructed compared to buff. They react better to shock then buff. I would use a quicker opening bullet than the SAF to maximize shock power. The 300 grain Nosler partition should work very well and would be my choice.


65H&

Upon studying the perfect shot book and shooting some in my 375 I used NF's on a Buffalo and plains game hunt. They shot very well in my particular gun and where very devastating on game. That being said with exactly zero lion experience I would follow Dr Kevin's advice and use the PP's, he labeled them the pussy pounders in his book, kinda like the name. I would guess a partition or A-frame would have the same effect if well placed also.

CEB 275 gr Safari raptor-
or
CEB ESP ER raptor

I have killed 2 with 300 grain TSX. Both died without taking a step.

Placement is much more an issue with lion than what you hit them with.

I would shoot them with whatever you are shooting buffalo with for bait. Just make sure its nuts on.

I shoot 300gr Swift A- Frames in my 375 H&H, I've shot buffalo and lion and am a firm believer in the A-Frame. As in everything, shot placement is the most important factor.

Go with the A Frame. Trust me it works and works well.

Many bullets work, but more importantly pass bullet thru middle of chest case closed.

Mike

quote:

bullet thru middle of chest case closed.

The above reckoning, with possibly an "expanding" type bullet produces the desired results with almost all animals.

And .... what happened to the over-hyped "Lion Load" that sprung up but quietly faded away?

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

bullet thru middle of chest case closed.

The above reckoning, with possibly an "expanding" type bullet produces the desired results with almost all animals.

And .... what happened to the over-hyped "Lion Load" that sprung up but quietly faded away?

Disregard the shoulder shot.

I simply add my voice that bullet placement is the most important factor. I am a fan of the A-frame. The expand well and loose very little mass.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
[QUOTE]bullet thru middle of chest case closed.

The above reckoning, with possibly an "expanding" type bullet produces the desired results with almost all animals.

And .... what happened to the over-hyped "Lion Load" that sprung up but quietly faded away?

Disregard the shoulder shot.[/QUOTE

Its full frontal at 10ft or nothing .... the proper way to hunt and kill a Lion.

fulvio

The "Lion load" as loaded by A-Square ended up being too soft. I think quite a few people had some unpleasant experiences with it.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
[QUOTE]bullet thru middle of chest case closed.

The above reckoning, with possibly an "expanding" type bullet produces the desired results with almost all animals.

And .... what happened to the over-hyped "Lion Load" that sprung up but quietly faded away?

Disregard the shoulder shot.[/QUOTE

Its full frontal at 10ft or nothing .... the proper way to hunt and kill a Lion.

Well it was a little further than 10 feet.

Interesting...

Both the lion I shot were frontal shots as well.

While not 10 feet, both were well under 25 yards also, if memory doesn't play tricks.

For the PH's, are most lion shot more commonly frontal and rather close?

I used local ammo in Namibia. Looked like a partition.
I would think you should ask Aaron Neilson as he has shot more than a dozen and he doesn't sell ammo. I don't think!!

I have been subsequently reminded that Aaron is sponsored by Hornaday on the TV show. My bad. Anyway, he has shot a dozen or so lions so should still be a source.

Australian made Woodleigh Round Nose Soft

North Fork PP (Pussy Pounder) .... Good bullet if you can find a load your gun likes.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I used local ammo in Namibia. Looked like a partition.
I would think you should ask Aaron Neilson as he has shot more than a dozen and he doesn't sell ammo. I don't think!!

I have been subsequently reminded that Aaron is sponsored by Hornaday on the TV show. My bad. Anyway, he has shot a dozen or so lions so should still be a source.

Think he has used a 270 Barnes X or TSX driven fast on most of his lions.

I shot mine with the 300 grain A-Frame in the heart. They work.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
CEB 275 gr Safari raptor-
or
CEB ESP ER raptor

+1

quote:

The "Lion load" as loaded by A-Square ended up being too soft. I think quite a few people had some unpleasant experiences with it.

Yes indeed Mark I understand they had an "egg on the wall" effect and a somewhat irate Lion to be dealt with.

That said, there's a lot of naive/gullible people out there who will swallow any BS they get fed when it comes to bullet performance.

As you know, most any respectable expanding bullet will comfortably do the job on both Lion and Leopard as both are soft-skinned, relatively soft-boned and normally shot at distances within 70 yards.

Based on all the reports I have seen I don't get why people overthink their bullet choice for lion, thats when trouble happens, take your buffalo bullet that will kill any animal in your safari and you will always ready.

I mean people change soft for solids when hunting the pigmy antelope because of fear of over expansion but are worried of bullets not expanding enough on a big lion?

I've taken two lion. One with a 350gr TSX in 416 Rigby, the other CEB Safari Raptor in 9.3x74R. My son took a lioness with a 300gr TSX out of a 375 H7H. All performed flawlessly.

Very interesting topic, thank you for bringing it up.

I would love to be in the "I have shot 12 lions club". Right now I am in the I have never shot a lion club. Hopefully I get to fix that some day.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Interesting...

Both the lion I shot were frontal shots as well.

While not 10 feet, both were well under 25 yards also, if memory doesn't play tricks.

For the PH's, are most lion shot more commonly frontal and rather close?

Mr Butler,

In my book there are two shots on Lion - one broadside a good couple of inches behind the shoulder and the frontal shot using the chin as a marker. Well placed it is very effective. If on foot I would only call this shot if I had faith in the shooter.

We have heard that using hard bullets like the Barnes X and other copper ones is not recommended for lion.

I have shot a few lion, two with the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets, and the rest with either a Barnes X or our own Walterhog bullets.

None had gone more than a few feet from where they were shot.

I would not use A-Square's Lion Load, or any bullet that has a think jacket.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We have heard that using hard bullets like the Barnes X and other copper ones is not recommended for lion.

I have shot a few lion, two with the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets, and the rest with either a Barnes X or our own Walterhog bullets.

None had gone more than a few feet from where they were shot.

I would not use A-Square's Lion Load, or any bullet that has a think jacket.

This professional also found the same thing re soft jacketed bullets but his solution was a little different to most:

The famed professional Harry Selby who hunted 55 consecutive years from 1945 to 2000, a great majority of those with his beloved .416 Rigby had this to say about bullets;

“In time I abandoned carrying soft-nose bullets for the .416, for the ones available from Kynoch tended to break up. The only possible use for a soft-nose bullet would be lion, and I found the .416 rolled lions over with a solid pretty well anyway”.

He said possible use, and I know for a fact that during his time the soft point bullets were terrible, they had very thin skins.

What we classify as non solids today can be used as solids in 99% of cases.

Years ago I used to use solids for buffalo, as the only bullets available then were like the Winchester Silver Tips.

Once Barnes came up with their X bullets, and all the copy cats after that - the need for solids have been eliminated except for elephant.

And I can assure you I would not hesitate in shooting an elephant on a side brain shot with one of our Walterhog bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We have heard that using hard bullets like the Barnes X and other copper ones is not recommended for lion.

I have shot a few lion, two with the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets, and the rest with either a Barnes X or our own Walterhog bullets.

None had gone more than a few feet from where they were shot.

I would not use A-Square's Lion Load, or any bullet that has a think jacket.

I agree and in addition to my experience stated earlier with the TSX bullet on lion, I've taken two leopard with the TSX bullet as well. Both were dead under the tree.

If I wanted to shoot one with a 375 I would consider a very fast TSX.Better yet a fast 300gr TSX from a hanloaded 375 Ultra Mag.Muzzle brake on the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We have heard that using hard bullets like the Barnes X and other copper ones is not recommended for lion.

I have shot a few lion, two with the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets, and the rest with either a Barnes X or our own Walterhog bullets.

None had gone more than a few feet from where they were shot.

I would not use A-Square's Lion Load, or any bullet that has a think jacket.

I agree and in addition to my experience stated earlier with the TSX bullet on lion, I've taken two leopard with the TSX bullet as well. Both were dead under the tree.

Which really goes to throw the argument that one should use soft bullets for leopards.

All the leopards I have shot were by either a Barnex X or our own Walterhog bullets.

Except one which I shot with a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

Again, all were dead under the tree.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If I wanted to shoot one with a 375 I would consider a very fast TSX.Better yet a fast 300gr TSX from a hanloaded 375 Ultra Mag.Muzzle brake on the rifle.

I guess the muzzle-brake is what makes the difference in producing an ultra dead Leopard super fast.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If I wanted to shoot one with a 375 I would consider a very fast TSX.Better yet a fast 300gr TSX from a hanloaded 375 Ultra Mag.Muzzle brake on the rifle.

I guess the muzzle-brake is what makes the difference in producing an ultra dead Leopard super fast.

Hahahaha!

You will be amazed at what makes one kills animals super fast.

I have a cousin who can hardly hit a barn door - with him inside the barn!

One of my friends was having a conversation with him about shooting in general, and why he is so bad at shooting, while apparently I am good at it.

My cousin said "what do you expect? He designs and makes his own rifles, designs and makes his own bullets. He programs them not to miss!"

He has an 8 year old son, and came over to shoot.

I told him I had set up targets for both him and his son, with an Anschutz 22 match rifle.

I got Lapua Center X ammo, removed each alternate row of 5, and replaced them with bulk Lapua ammo, so he would not notice the headstamp if he looked.

As you can imagine, his son beat him

Now the son is hooked on shooting, and I am happy to teach him.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

bullet thru middle of chest case closed.

The above reckoning, with possibly an "expanding" type bullet produces the desired results with almost all animals.

And .... what happened to the over-hyped "Lion Load" that sprung up but quietly faded away?

They were probably too soft. However , in the 90's , I witnessed dozens of cats ( lion and leopard ) folding spectacularly to these bullets. Calibres .416 to 500 A square. Mostly frontal and behind the shoulder shots on the lions.
The lions that did get wounded in this era were normally shoulder shots with RWS ammo.