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| One of Us |
My family will be doing our first safari to Namibia for plains game. Initially, my dad and myself were the only hunters, and my wife and mother were dreaming up a multitude of side trips. I mentioned that I would like a second zebra pelt to have made into a few items like a rifle case, sling, photo album cover, whatever. My wife pipes up with, "I want to shoot a zebra". Something that she was not interested in 6 months ago when we booked. However, since then, she shot her first big game animal, a beautiful 4X4 whitetail, this fall, and now has the bug. So, I am building her a 7X57 on a Mauser action to take. Which bullet do I stoke it with? I am thinking 150 grains is the minimum weight, and 160's are probably best. Maybe some 160gr Partitions? Swifts? I have an aversion to Barnes bullets, but it has been 23 years since they let me down. You guys that used a 7mm Mauser or similar, what did you shoot your zebra with? Lets get my wife set up, and reminisce a bit about your first safari. This forum is getting to be a political knitting circle, stop the madness. Jeremy | ||
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One of Us |
I fully understand your opinion of the old Barnes X bullets. I had issues with them in the early 90s. BUT the current TSX & TTSX are totally different bullets. The design is totally different with the bands & the diameter is 0.5 to 1 thou smaller than groove diameter of the nominal caliber. So a 7mm bullet is 0.283 or 0.2835 inch. They do not spike pressures with normal top loads They do not foul barrels unduely They are VERY accurate - I get 0.5 inch groups with 150gr TSX in my 7mm08 They are absolutely lethal on appropriate game even out to 250 meters. I have no experience (yet) with African game but with a regular non-magnum 7mm caliber I would go for the 160 gr TSX & the most accurate load around 2600 - 2700 fps. For my trip later next year I am taking larger calibers (416 Rigby & 9.3X62) as Buffalo in the main target. But I am very keen on a zebra rug. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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The 150 or 160 grain TSX would be my choice in 7mm Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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I have a friend that killed a zebra with a 243 using a swift a-frame. I would not attempt that myself, but the a-frame sure has a strong following. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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| one of us |
farbedo, If I were going after a zebra specifally with a 7x57 I'd try to find a TSX in one of the heavier weights that shot well in my rifle. I think you'll find the TSX a huge improvement over the old X bullet. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| one of us |
A few years ago when I took my son on his first safari, he took several animals, including 2 zebras and 2 wildebeests with a 6.5X55 Swede. All animals fell either on the spot or within yards using 140 gr. A-Frames at 2750 fps. Recovered bullets were perfect mushrooms. Good bullet and it was chosen because it was very accurate in his rifle. I would say, choose which ever of the many quality bullets out there,conventional or non-con, that shoots best in the gun. I think you will be well armed with anything in the 150-170 gr. range. have fun. Geronimo | |||
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So, I gather, that a tougher bullet is preferred. The finished rifle will have a 24" tube, so 2600fps with a 160 and 2500 with a 175 should be doable and safe. Does the reduced velocity of this cartridge change anyone's opinion? What would you consider the max range? 200 yards? 300 yards? My wife won't have trouble closing the distance or hiking as far as needed, but game animals don't read the script, so she needs to be ready for the oddball shot. Do you think the 175gr will be moving too slow to mushroom? I do adhere to the biggest bullet that is practical philosophy. If the bullet can't get to the vitals, what the point? Thanks for the responses. Jeremy | |||
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What twist rate are you going with? I believe Barnes recommends a 1-9" for their 175-gr. bullets. Have you looked at North Fork bullets? Their 160-gr. semi-spitzer would work well in a 7x57, IMO. | |||
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I have killed a bunch of Zebra with a 9,3x74R double rifle with 286 gr Woodleigh Softs, and 286gr Nosler Partitions. My wife killed her Zebra with a 308 Win and the 165 gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaw, with no Drama. In a 7x57 I would not hesitate to use a 160gr Nosler Partition, Swift A Frame, TBBC, or a North Fork. She also shot several animals with a 180gr Barnes MRX, with excellent results. If I was going to use a Barnes X it would definately be one of the plastic tipped ones. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Highly recommend the TSX bullet. With the exception of my double rifles, and even with the doubles to some extent, I've taken 95% or more of all of my animals with the TSX bullet over the last 10+ years. Animals have ranged from the tiny steinbok to Cape buffalo with just about everything in between. BTW, 4 Zebra with the TSX bullets as well ... 300gr TSX in 375H&H, 180gr TTSX in 300 H&H, 225gr TSX in 340 WBY, and 180gr TSX in 30-06. All one shot kills. All gave full penetration and exited with the exception of the 30-06 ... that bullet was just poking through the far side skin. | |||
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I used a borrowed .308 Winchester in Namibia handloaded with Norma 200-grain Oryx bullets which is not all that different than a 7x57 with heavy for caliber 7mm bullets. Worked great on everything including mountain zebra at 300 yerds. Lots of good ideas already on bullets - I'd try the Partition, North Fork, Swift and Barnes in 160 or heavier and see what the rifle likes. Any of these at moderate speed from your wife's 7x57 will work on zebra - and a bunch of other things also!! Sounds like a fun hunt. | |||
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I have had great luck with Swift A frames in my 280. I used hand loads with the 175 grain a frame at 2563 FPS last year on a pg hunt. I shot impala, gemsbok,and two kudu plus my second zebra, which dropped in his tracks with a frontal chest shot at fifty yards. My kudu was shot at 280 yards broadside and the bullet broke both shoulders and kept on going. My wife shot the other kudu with great results. Zebra are tough and I would use no less than the 160 A frame, but the 175 gets my vote for stellar performance. DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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Like the OP I had poor experiences with the Barnes X and I just never got back to the Barnes bullets. From all the users and reports I am sure the TSX or new Barnes are indeed much better and do a great job. I just don't have any - or any Barnes at all. Zebra are tough, but for my next go on them I am planning either the 160 grain Nosler Partitions or the Accubonds (maybe) in my 7MM RM . I think in the end if your rifle shoots the A Frames, or the TSX, or the Partitions the best, then either will get the job done well. | |||
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I really appreciate the responses. The rifle will have a 1:9 twist barrel cut to 24". I have a box of 160gr partitions. It looks like I need to order an assortment of 160 and 175 grain bullets and let the load development commence. Has anyone tried the CEB 160gr in 7mm? Or similar in .30 cal? Good looking bullet. In a full length action, it should feed from the magazine. Jeremy | |||
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I've only shot two Zebras. Both were shot with 225 Gr. Nosler Partitions from my .338 Win Mag. They worked great. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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North fork now makes 7mm projectiles. One of their bonded core or precussion points on the heavy side would do well. That is what I will be using in my 24" 7x57 for plains game. | |||
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The first of the only two custom rifles I have ever ordered was built for me for use in Africa by a classmate at TSJC. It is a 7x57 on a 1909 with all the bells and whistles. I took it basically for plains game and with it I took several Kudu and an Impala. All were basically shot as meat animals at the request of the outfitter. This rifle has a very thin 22" barrel and strings vertically after 3 quick shots. It was built specifically to shoot 175gr Nosler Partitions and it will put 3 in under 1/2" all day long as long as it does not get hot. I shot all the Kudu in 100-300yds and most were 2 shot kills with the second for insurance since this was business not pleasure shooting. Scope is a 3-9 Vari-X II in Talley mounts on custom bases. I have the utmost faith in the rifle and the cartridge for use in Africa. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Yes, I would go heaviest possible and toughest possible for zebra. My only experience is with .416 calibre, 400 grain TBBC and Nosler partitions, and two out of three still ran after perfect shots (not far, but they ran). | |||
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23yrs ago the original barnes and the new ones are a 21 century bullet and there is no comparision. http://www.barnesbullets.com/p...e/tipped-tsx-bullet/ Look at these and there is no looking back. Mike If you don't want them then NorthFork. http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/bullets/ | |||
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Barnes- and if they aren't accurate in your particular rifle, then Swift A Frames Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I am not a reloader, but having killed all 3 animals I feel strongly that Zebra are tougher to bring down than moose or elk. IMO, handload accordingly. Good luck! | |||
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Zebra do need a harder bullet in my experience; but if your 7X57 shoots Partitions then either the 160's or 175's would be fine as they will not be driven all that fast. I would also try the current 160 TSX or A-Frame but my first choice would be the 160gn Lapua Naturalis....they are the finest mono-metal bullet available........... I took a common zebra last month in Namibia with a 170gr Naturalis out of a 300 H&H at a sedate 3000fps. It was put down emphatically! And a friend of mine who has a ranch in the Khomas Hochland, shoots her mountain zebra with a 8x68S and factory RWS 187gr H-Mantle ammo, which is a very soft bullet....but seems to work for her  | |||
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Blair 338RUM, it may be a great bullet, but it is pretty homely. I can't be putting ugly ammo into a rather pretty rifle  On the Barnes, tipped or no tip? | |||
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I took my Zebra in 2012 with a 30-06 and the 180 gr Nosler partitions at about 110 yards. Hit him 3X, twice in the chest which both passed through completely, and once in the hip which finally put him down. (Running shot) While you cannot kill anything "too dead", I personally would lean toward bullets in the 140 to 160 range in the 7x57 for all but the largest plains game. NRA Benefactor. Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne | |||
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LOl. The Naturalis wasn't designed by a marketing department, that's for sure! They don't petal up like an Barnes TSX, but mushroom conventionally and typically retain 98%> of their original weight. They are KILLING MACHINES. I would go the TSX (no tip) on donkeys. The TTSX can be a bit too fast to set up in my limited experience on African game with them. I had some bad results with them out my 338RUM on an Oryx cull. They are perfect for the smaller antelopes though. | |||
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My only Zebra was with a TSX from my 375 H&H in '07. Matter of fact has been my bullet of choice in '09 and '12 as well for all plains game and Buff. | |||
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People blame bullets for failure and I disagree I blame the shooters. A bullet if a solid will kill any animal. A soft point be it a conventional expanding soft lead core and copper jacket will mushroom and smash flesh and kill. A copper Barnes will expand unless you drop it and bend the hollow point closed or fire it back and forth in the steel magazine box and flatten the tip, won't work also. But if is not damaged it will penetrate expand in the first 1.5 inches of penetration and will cut and tear apart the flesh causing much more damage than a conventional soft. But let me say this accurate shooting is more important. Put a bullet thru lungs case closed. A zebra double lung him and he is toast. What ever bullet fired. Mike TSX thru head D.R.T.  TSX thru shoulder 20yds.  TSX thru neck D.R.T.  TSX D.R.T.  TSX D.R.T.  TSX in and out and shattered head  TSX D.R.T.  TSX D.R.T.  TSX thru neck  TSX neck shot D.R.T.  TSX D.R.T.  TSX head shot D.R.T.  | |||
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Mike is correct of course. I just like holes that are at least 40 calibre. | |||
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Bullet placement is of course the main determining factor in dropping a game animal. But I have had a number of Oryx (as per my earlier post) shot right in the on shoulder blade with my 338RUM and 225gr TTSX's that didn't penetrate any further than an inch or so beyond the on shoulder............that's a bullet failure, pure and simple. Barnes TSX's in calibres 375 and up have a much bigger hollow point than smaller calibres and seem to work much better........they also are generally not going very fast, which helps stop them shearing off petals. | |||
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Just be sure to engrave ".275 Rigby" on either the barrel or receiver. That will cause the animals to believe that you are a Brit, and they will simply fall down and die, no matter the bullet. | |||
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Those statements stand in stark contrast to anything, positive or negative, that I've ever heard concerning the TSX. I've never heard of a TSX failing to penetrate. Period! I've heard of them failing to open which I've personally never experienced, but have heard of of it, especially if the hollow point is somehow damaged, but never a failure to penetrate. Also, I've shot the TSX and TTSX bullet in .243, .277, .284, .308, .338, 9.3, .375, .416, .458. and .510. Various speeds as well, some slow, some scorching fast as in my 340 WBY. I've blown some pedals off as well and in those cases, the bullets have almost always formed a secondary and more typical "mushroom". Pedals on or off, they have always been a devastating bullet on every animal I've shot with them, and that includes both soft skinned soft boned as well as heavy boned thick skinned animals. They are my bullet of choice except for my doubles and I've not experienced any real negatives in shooting the TSX from the 2 pipe configuration for that matter. | |||
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To be boringly correct .... you will need a 175 grain projectile (or a hot loaded 154/160) to meet the legal minimum energy level for plains game in Namibia with a 7x57. I haven't heard of anyone being checked if their firearms/ammo combo meet this requirement. I know of one person taking plains game with a 6.5mm, which is not recommended by the Namibian professional hunters association.. If ranges are long, like they are in our outback, use a RNSP to help initiate expansion at longer/lower impact velocities. My 7x57 with a 175 Woodleigh PPSN penetrates as much as my 9.3x62 did with Woodleigh 286 RNSP's. Hornady make a 175 RNSP Interlock which would work well on Zebra. | |||
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Todd, Don't get me wrong I like Barnes products; in fact I was the first person in Australia to order and use them, confirmed by Connie herself. BUT I have had trouble with the 225TTSX setting up too fast and not penetrating on Oryx that we were culling a couple of years ago in Namibia. We had a couple of strange results on Hartebeest as well........it might have been a bad box of bullets and the 338RUM does drive them fast which only increases the likelihood of bullet failure. It happened. I have shot 50 or 60 PG with the Lapua Naturalis in both .30 calibre and .338 calibre.......in fact my PH, Mike Kibble was so impressed with them that he and his father Pete Kibble load them in their PG back up guns. I'm not trying to blacken a product, I'm just giving feedback, as I do a lot of shooting of PG in Namibia......and I have no financial reasons to push the Naturalis.....I just love their performance. | |||
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Code4, thanks, I didn't consider the legality of the cartridge. Though, who over there is going to pull out a chronograph to check? It still has meaning that they thought about suitability of a cartridge and put some specifications to it. I'll try out both 160's and 175's to see what the rifle likes. The consensus is that either weight will get it done with good placement. If you read through the mountain of info about terminal bullet performance elsewhere in forumland, petal shearing is a method of increasing wound volume and is proper performance for some designs. As to my failure with a Barnes years ago, it was a 180gr X going 2950fps in my 300 Winchester. I shot about a 5 year old bull elk at 75 yards in the front shoulder. He was quartering to me in the timber and that was the shot I had. The bullet flattened into a 50 cent piece when it hit the thick bone at the bottom of the shoulder blade. Didn't break the bone, and didn't do its job. I later shot him in a clearing after a long afternoon of tracking him. This time the bullet worked fine, but I didn't hit any bones either. Was this a fluke? Probably. Was I going to take that chance? Nope. I went back to Nosler Partitions and have had good results with them. Everyone settles on what they feel is the best solution. Reasons vary from perceived, or actual bullet failure to simply what shoots the most accurately, bullet design being ignored. Jeremy | |||
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I used to shoot TSX and TTSX, and killed a heap of game with them in Europe and Africa, without incident. Probably talking about 150 to 200 animals with this head. For the last couple of years I moved to partitions with the same effects. We shot oryx, wildebeest, zebra and a heap of other stuff with the 140's this year without any issues in 260rem. What mike said, put it in the right place and it will do the job. K | |||
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Blair and Mike, I've also used the TTSX on quite a few game animals. I'm not disputing Blair's reports, just that it's the first time I've heard of a TSX or TTSX not penetrating. If anything negative, I've specifically heard that the TTSX has not upset at all and penetrated without opening. It's just that this is a new statement to me. I took zebra, baboon, impala, and leopard with the 180gr TTSX from a 300H&H driving that bullet at 3,050fps on a trip to Zim in 2011. That same bullet and rifle resulted in 3 one shot kills on a Tahr (300yards), Chamois (150yards), and red stag (75yards) on a trip to New Zealand in 2012. Various other animals have also fallen to that combo including 3 whitetail deer and more hogs than I can count. Every one of those animals taken with that bullet / rifle combo have been one shot, dead right there, kills with the exception of the zebra. He was a 1 shot kill taken at 300 yards, right on the striped triangle on the shoulder, perfectly broadside, and he ran 50 yards or so and fell in sight of the hunting party. Every kill with that bullet / rifle combo has resulted in a complete pass through and I've never had to shoot twice. I've got a fair amount of video of using that rifle / bullet combo as well. I've posted the Tahr hunt below if anyone has an interest in viewing it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEh9snMhmzE I'm certainly not saying any of the reports of poor performance with the TSX or TTSX are false as there are too many circumstances to account for that could produce less than stellar results, but I have shot a large number of animals, of a large variation in constitution from small to large, soft to hard targets, in a wide variety of calibers and velocities and have yet to have a single failure of a TSX of TTSX bullet. I've blown some petals off with my 340WBY. Specifically on a waterbuck taken in 2009 using a 225gr TSX, shot on the point of the shoulder at 100 yards. The result was that the animal reared up on his hind legs and sidestepped a few steps, falling on his left side and began kicking, never to regain his feet. Again, a 1 shot kill. Like all others here, I can only report what MY experience has been with these bullets. Cheers. | |||
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``Ive never heard of a TSX failing to penetrate`` stop bullshitting | |||
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| One of Us |
Agree completely Todd. And thanks for the further information on your results. | |||
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| <Mike McGuire> |
Todd, I think what you Yanks should do is come to Australia and shoot more animals than you can imagine Think of this way. The numbers will be like shooting prairie dogs but the animals are full size. PS. I am a shooter not a hunter. If it moves or looks like it can move then it is shot | ||
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