quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by shotgun46:
a 375HH is all you will need

Cringe!

A 375H&H that WORKS may be all you need, but regardless of chambering if the rifle is broken, you are in trouble if you have only one rifle!

...................................................................

Mac,

The right answer is:

It depends on the man behind it.

Some don't feel comfortable using a PROPER rifle, but an OVERSIZED rifle to make up for their own shortcomings

I always take two rifles on a safari, but never take more than one on my daily hunts. My PH always has a bigger caliber rifle than I have, so can use his if necessary (has never been necessary).

The last two times that I went to Africa, I only took one rifle (my 375 H&H) but with my recent purchase of a 458 Win mag, I'll be taking two from now on.

I have to bring my own rifles since I shoot left handed. It's hard to find left handed rifles in most camps. I can shoot right handed if I have to but much prefer to shoot left handed whenever possible.

Carry two rifles for leopard, and would do so for lion, however, have never hunted lion. The tracker carried my double, and I the .338. Upon closing in a couple of times on the leopard (tracking hunt) I then carried the double.

I bring my heavy double rifle and a 375H&H bolt when I go on safari. Both are legal for elephants or anything else for that matter, and I would never bring just one rifle or a rifle not legal for the largest game I intend to shoot (which will always be an elephant.) I'm left handed and left handed rifles are none to common in the bush, moreover, using a right handed rifle a lefty has to fumble with on DG must be close to the epitome of stupid.

When we are on tracks I carry my heavy double and that is my only rifle brought along. If we are on a scouting walk sometimes a tracker will carry my 375H&H with four in the magazine and the chamber empty, plus he'll have a five round slide of solids and a five round slide of softs.

I have carried my 375H&H only when the elephant quota was full, and then the double is in the rack on the truck.

I was hunting with Buzz Charlton once and his old number one tracker, Crispin, iirc, had been sub-planted by his younger tracker earlier in the season, can't recall his name offhand now, but he was an excellent tracker and a heck of a nice guy. The old guy's feelings were a bit raw yet and he wanted to carry my 375H&H. There was no need since we were focused on elephants and I mentioned it. Buzz pulled me aside and asked that I let the older fellow carry the rifle, which is a sign of status apparently. It meant wiping down a second rifle each evening, but since it made the older fellow feel good, I was fine with it.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by shotgun46:
a 375HH is all you will need

Cringe!

A 375H&H that WORKS may be all you need, but regardless of chambering if the rifle is broken, you are in trouble if you have only one rifle!

...................................................................

Mac,

The right answer is:

It depends on the man behind it.

Some don't feel comfortable using a PROPER rifle, but an OVERSIZED rifle to make up for their own shortcomings

Saeed maybe I didn't state my point correctly! What I meant by the word "WORKS" had nothing to do with the 375 Caliber, but in regard to a BROKEN RIFLE that doesn't WORK, regardless of caliber, being useless!

.........................................................................

For me as a bolt action shooter carrying one rifle in the field that covers all eventualities such as a 375 or 416 is perfect. For a double rifle shooter a scope sighted 375 or 416 carried by a tracker while you carry the double makes alot of sense. If you run into that 60 inch kudu on the opposite hillside from you and you've only got your double your kind of screwed but if you have access to a scope sighted flatter shooting rifle your good to go. Also if something happens to your double you have an adequate back up for DG also.

Mark

I have done it, but do it no more. Now my PG rifle is a .375, whether for duiker or, I am happy to say, eland.

When in DG country, always carry a DG rifle! Good motto and good practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have done it, but do it no more. Now my PG rifle is a .375, whether for duiker or, I am happy to say, eland.

When in DG country, always carry a DG rifle! Good motto and good practice.

How dare you refer to the .375 as a PG rifle.

Andrew, I apologize, but the .375 is the light beer of DG rifles. Yet it is truly the stoutest of stout when it comes to PG!

When I am focused after buff, hippo or elephant, I much prefer something much bigger.

Lately, I have settled on a .500 A-Square. A big boomer is a big comfort.

But sometimes, as when staring upwards at spitting distance at an irate elephant, hoping he will back off, even my .500 has seemed a pitifully humble tool.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have done it, but do it no more. Now my PG rifle is a .375, whether for duiker or, I am happy to say, eland.

When in DG country, always carry a DG rifle! Good motto and good practice.

How dare you refer to the .375 as a PG rifle.

Andrew,

We have some members who are just plain jealous that there are hunters who are capable of killing every animal on this earth with the lowly 375!

We know how to use it, and haven't had any inclination to use anything bigger.

Of course, if one is incapable of shooting accurately, and hopes that 0.125" of an inch can save him, good luck to him

Depends on how well you know the tracker who is carrying your second rifle. If he runs in the event of a charge, one rifle is what you have anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I have done it, but do it no more. Now my PG rifle is a .375, whether for duiker or, I am happy to say, eland.

When in DG country, always carry a DG rifle! Good motto and good practice.

How dare you refer to the .375 as a PG rifle.

Certainly the minimum caliber for Sitatunga.

Those that suggest the .375 is the be all to end all ignore the reality that different tools are sometimes better for different jobs. That is no different than suggesting that a claw hammer is all the hammer anyone ever needs, when the truth is that sometimes a tack hammer is the best tool, sometimes a hand sledge is the right tool, sometimes a ball pein hammer fits the job best, etc. With the plethora of caliber options available these days, it is myopic to suggest that regardless of the hunting situation a .375 is the answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

...

Of course, if one is incapable of shooting accurately, and hopes that 0.125" of an inch can save him, good luck to him

It isn't the 0.125", it is the extra 300grains or 100% bullet weight that will save the .500 shooter when the .375 will get him killed.

If you prefer to hunt close and mix it up with elephants, there will be times when you end up shooting when you would hope not too, and some of those times will be in positions, in brush or at angles where making a perfect brain shot is beyond difficult. On the other hand, if you prefer "stand off" distances, the 375 is enough and some.

JPK

No one is suggesting that bigger will account for crappy shooting, but the facts are hard to ignore: The .500 NE has a diameter 36% greater than the .375 and a bullet weight that is 90% greater. To even hint that there is no meaningful difference between the two is simply ridiculous. That said, more power to those that want to hunt elephant cows up close with a .375, that would not be me. I hope that they elect to have their hunt videoed.

Man oh man....this discussion is the top of the heap for....

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Man oh man....this discussion is the top of the heap for....

+1

+7/8 and 3/4s.

I agree. We should all go afield with .22s against all comers.

And may the stupidest best man, or the best stupid man, win!

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

...

Of course, if one is incapable of shooting accurately, and hopes that 0.125" of an inch can save him, good luck to him

It isn't the 0.125", it is the extra 300grains or 100% bullet weight that will save the .500 shooter when the .375 will get him killed.

If you prefer to hunt close and mix it up with elephants, there will be times when you end up shooting when you would hope not too, and some of those times will be in positions, in brush or at angles where making a perfect brain shot is beyond difficult. On the other hand, if you prefer "stand off" distances, the 375 is enough and some.

JPK

+1

Some guys actually have become convinced that "size really doesn't matter"!

I wouldn't know from first hand experience, but I'm told that little tale is often told to those needing "reassurances"!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Some guys actually have become convinced that "size really doesn't matter"!

I wouldn't know from first hand experience, but I'm told that little tale is often told to those needing "reassurances"!

Todd,

Size does not matter.

If it did, the population of this earth would be drastically less

One should use what HE thinks is fit for the purpose, and let other decide what THEY want to use.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Not far after leaving the truck, I got cold feet, as I wasn't really happy with anyone carrying my rifle.

I took my rifle from the tracker, and left it behind a tree to pick up on the way back to the truck.

Saeed,
Re: the tracker who you didn't trust to carry your rifle,..
If you or someone got badly injured or snake bitten while hunting,
would you allow [trust] that same tracker to carry you or a good friend out?

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Not far after leaving the truck, I got cold feet, as I wasn't really happy with anyone carrying my rifle.

I took my rifle from the tracker, and left it behind a tree to pick up on the way back to the truck.

Saeed,
Re: the tracker who you didn't trust to carry your rifle,..
If you or someone got badly injured or snake bitten while hunting,
would you allow [trust] that same tracker to carry you or a good friend out?

Carrying my rifle and carrying an injured individual are two totally different matters.

One has a choice over, and the other one has no choice but to do it.

As far as bringing two rifles along on a stalk or hunt,I guess that would have to be a buff hunt unless one just feels more comfortable with a heavy double in his hands in dense brush ele country while on a plains game or cat hunt or just out in the bush.I say a buff hunt because although it would be best to get one up close,such an opportunity might not present itself.If instead I got a chance at a nice trophy 150yds away it would be nice having my open sight bolt rifle along.
On the other hand if you have just one rifle along-a heavy double,its up close or nothing-not that there is anything wrong with that-as long as you can afford to do another hunt in the future if you dont score.

I always carry two rifles. Then I shoot everything with my .416 because it is what I have in my hand.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Not far after leaving the truck, I got cold feet, as I wasn't really happy with anyone carrying my rifle.

I took my rifle from the tracker, and left it behind a tree to pick up on the way back to the truck.

Saeed,
Re: the tracker who you didn't trust to carry your rifle,..
If you or someone got badly injured or snake bitten while hunting,
would you allow [trust] that same tracker to carry you or a good friend out?

Carrying my rifle and carrying an injured individual are two totally different matters.

One has a choice over, and the other one has no choice but to do it.

Of course they are two different circumstances.
The tracker carrying a seriously injured client,can prove critical in helping save a clients life,
yet be consider not worthy or good enough to carry the same clients rifle at other times.
anyway,
That reminds me of an elderly Jewish person I have spoken with in the past, who told me about when he was making his way
across Nazi occupied Europe,
Hungry,cold and afraid, they came across a farm house, A German farmer briefly took them in and fed them.
They accepted the food and brief hospitality, despite their distrust for Germans and disdain of having to eat the
pork meal served to them.

In fact, when I have got my second, or other, rifles back, they have invariably been scarred up.

Now, no one carries my rifle but me.

I may be slow, but I do keep moving along.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Those that suggest the .375 is the be all to end all ignore the reality that different tools are sometimes better for different jobs. That is no different than suggesting that a claw hammer is all the hammer anyone ever needs, when the truth is that sometimes a tack hammer is the best tool, sometimes a hand sledge is the right tool, sometimes a ball pein hammer fits the job best, etc. With the plethora of caliber options available these days, it is myopic to suggest that regardless of the hunting situation a .375 is the answer.

To suggest the veritable .375 is nothing more than a plains game calibre is uneducated. Especially when one considers the most widely used Elephant calibre today is the 7.62

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Those that suggest the .375 is the be all to end all ignore the reality that different tools are sometimes better for different jobs. That is no different than suggesting that a claw hammer is all the hammer anyone ever needs, when the truth is that sometimes a tack hammer is the best tool, sometimes a hand sledge is the right tool, sometimes a ball pein hammer fits the job best, etc. With the plethora of caliber options available these days, it is myopic to suggest that regardless of the hunting situation a .375 is the answer.

To suggest the veritable .375 is nothing more than a plains game calibre is uneducated. Especially when one considers the most widely used Elephant calibre today is the 7.62

But is it not true that what can be done, and what should be done, are often two different things?

The only circumstance where I would use a .375 on elephant would be if nothing bigger were available.

And I would hope to have planned ahead, as I generally do, to avoid that eventuality.

Mike,

There are many threads here that argue the merits of medium to large calibers and we do not need to regurgitate the pros and cons. And most of what I state here is tongue in cheek mate.

Though what I did find of interest recently was the MS DVD that came with his book for the Stu Taylor donation. It was of interest to me as a majority of buffalo shot by Mark or his clients or both were taken with .500 plus calibers and not one of those buffalo succumbed to a one shot kill. In fact most were shot multiple times and many at close quarters.

All my Buffalo last year were shot with .375 and one with a .403 lever action. All of them fell over dead, no scary follow ups and if another bullet was used it was only for 'insurance'.

I must say I was very impressed with the results and will continue to promote the caliber as an effective DG weapon.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Mike,

There are many threads here that argue the merits of medium to large calibers and we do not need to regurgitate the pros and cons. And most of what I state here is tongue in cheek mate.

Though what I did find of interest recently was the MS DVD that came with his book for the Stu Taylor donation. It was of interest to me as a majority of buffalo shot by Mark or his clients or both were taken with .500 plus calibers and not one of those buffalo succumbed to a one shot kill. In fact most were shot multiple times and many at close quarters.

All my Buffalo last year were shot with .375 and one with a .403 lever action. All of them fell over dead, no scary follow ups and if another bullet was used it was only for 'insurance'.

I must say I was very impressed with the results and will continue to promote the caliber as an effective DG weapon.

Cheers

Hi Andrew

I hear you, I have analysed the last 5 years buffalo we have taken in the Timbavati (170 Buffalo)

And no other calibre outperformed the 375H&H for one shot kills, there is no disputing this fact at all,

But in saying that I love my Rigby 470NE and my 500 Jeffery’s too much to put them down, I have killed my last 10 buffalo with both and with one shot+1 insurance,

The big issue with lager calibres are clients who do not have the confidence in handling the Bigger Bore rifles and as soon as that flinch or twitch catches you its shit all around for you as the PH, the client and the whole team involved on the hunt.

quote:

The big issue with lager calibres are clients who do not have the confidence in handling the Bigger Bore rifles and as soon as that flinch or twitch catches you its shit all around for you as the PH, the client and the whole team involved on the hunt.

Dead right!

Many hunters will not admit that they are incapable of handling the larger calibers and shoot them accurately.

They think by picking a larger caliber they will make up for their bad shooting.

I probably shoot more large caliber rifles than most.

But, for hunting, I prefer to have my 375/404.

I designed and built to be a one gun for everything.

And that is what I have been using, as well as many friends, on all our hunts.

Fellas:
It seems most of the discussion here is about hunting animals of different sizes. If after only one size of game, haw about an exta rifle in case of an accident? In the Selous in 2006 the stock of my .450-400 broke at the wrist when I slipped and fell on rocks in a riverbed. I repaired the stock and it worked well on croc but was glad I had a second double in camp. Formerly in Alaska I would carry a nice double and a beater rifle in case I had to hunt in bad weather.
Just my 2 cents, mates.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Fellas:
It seems most of the discussion here is about hunting animals of different sizes. If after only one size of game, haw about an exta rifle in case of an accident? In the Selous in 2006 the stock of my .450-400 broke at the wrist when I slipped and fell on rocks in a riverbed. I repaired the stock and it worked well on croc but was glad I had a second double in camp. Formerly in Alaska I would carry a nice double and a beater rifle in case I had to hunt in bad weather.
Just my 2 cents, mates.
Cal

That is one reason I take two rifles on every trip, except for local whitetails.

For safaris the second rifle is a 375H&H, since it will do everything at least reasonably well, from grysbok to elephant.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Fellas:
It seems most of the discussion here is about hunting animals of different sizes. If after only one size of game, haw about an exta rifle in case of an accident? In the Selous in 2006 the stock of my .450-400 broke at the wrist when I slipped and fell on rocks in a riverbed. I repaired the stock and it worked well on croc but was glad I had a second double in camp. Formerly in Alaska I would carry a nice double and a beater rifle in case I had to hunt in bad weather.
Just my 2 cents, mates.
Cal

Cal:

I thought when you carried two rifles it would be a double in .600 loaded with solids and a double in .600 loaded with softs.