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No, this is not a DG/.45-70 thread. I was just thinking back over my hunt in Namibia two years ago, and it occurred to me that a nice old Savage 99 in .250-3000, or even a little Marlin in .357 or even .32-20, might just be the nuts for hunting the smaller antelopes, which we often encountered at buckshot distances. I had a CZ in 9,3, but my brother brought a Savage in .300, and it was the first such gun the PH and tracker had ever seen "in the flesh." There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | ||
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I know three guys who went to Namibia and mainly used original Win. Model 1886s. No "mouse rounds" though. I know one was a 35 Win. Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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anyone making CRF leveractions? Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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It would be a neat rifle to haul along on a third or fourth safari. You'd have the experience by then to know where and on what the rifle would be effective. That and a 375 Holland's would be a great plains game combination. Rich | |||
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Most of my shots in Africa were under 150 yards. A good old 35 remington would work just fine. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I did just that, in July 2008. Took my 1895 Marlin GG, .45-70, and 300 gr. nosler partitions, to hunt in the Limpopo, RSA. Took 7 head of plains game. My buddy took a Marlin .308MX, and took 8 head of game. Here's a link to the report. http://forums.accuratereloadin...=468106498#468106498 Mad Dog | |||
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Go and check out Michael458's lever guns in 375,458 etc. I would like to build one here for horseback guiding in big 5 areas. Except for the cost involved I have to say its one of the best ideas I have seen in years and could work wonders in the field | |||
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I've been hosting levergun enthusiasts during annual "levergun safaris" since 2006 and they work great on plains game in Africa. Over this time I've seen various calibers - from a .357 Mag to 45-70's perform on plains game and I have acquired a lot of respect for these easy handling rifles... But even more so for the wonderful people who brought them over. Here are a couple of pics of animals hunted with leverguns with us:       For those interested we have our 5th levergun hunt coming up in April next year and still have a few spots open... Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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Chris: Thanks for posting! Wow, what a nice eland. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Thanks Bill, as I recall that particular Eland measured 38" and a 308 Win together with good shot placement was responsible for it. Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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Any thoughts about hunting in Africa with either the Winchester .348 Model 71 or 30-30 Model 94? Popular lever guns both, but just never heard of them used on safari..the .348 is .30-06 energy in a close to medium range weapon. | |||
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Lever gun heroes, just like the single shot heroes, you know your limitations and go and have fun. Just plain terrible. | |||
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Yep the Savage 99 is a CRF lever gun. | |||
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The armament for my cousins and my first trip to RSA in 1973 consisted of a Marlin in 32 Special, A bow, a Win push feed in 338 and a pump shotgun amongst the three of us. If I had to do it over again I would of used the 338 more and the Marlin less but still had a great trip. If I ever try to complete my bushbuck collection I'll be using my Marlin for sure. | |||
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I believe the BLR from Browning is some sort of CRF. | |||
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FYI: Tex Grebner from You Tube shoots all his plains game and dangerous game (including zombies) with a tactical lever action Marlin. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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The original all steel (non-lightweight) BLR was made in 300 Win Mag I believe, how hard would it be to convert one to 458 Win Mag? They had detachable magazines too ... Might be a nice bear stopper Chuck Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I've looked at one of Turnbull's leverguns in .475 Turnbull. It was cool and I would not mind having one in my safe. I don't know if I would take it to Africa but that is my personal choice and I've seen a couple of buff vids where they used them to good effect. Just not my deal... On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Love to see those Savage 99s on safari!!!!! I have used the 99 and a Winchester M88/.358 in years gone by, used an '86 Browning by Doug Turnbull in .475 Turnbull last year. What fun! That rifle changed my opinion of the suitability for lever actions for dangerous game. Fun to carry, and awful fast! | |||
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I carried one in 300 savage for many years. Plenty accurate for min of antelope. Reliable as hell, you had to work to mess one up. Good solid rifles but a tad heavy for cal being shot. Good solid reliable rifles. Wish I had that one back. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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a long action lever in 9,3x62 would be a great african all round rifle and in 308 or 284 would make an excellent antilope gun too Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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Wow! Twenty posts combining the words "lever" and "Africa" and we are all still friends!  Bill wanders off from the computer, smiling, humming "Men of Harlech" to himself ... There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Mikelravy: I hate to insult a guy from a fellow state -and one that has great hunting -but one of you guys took a Win.32 Special to Africa? Years ago, I read a comment by Fred Barnes in his "Cartridges of the World" and it went something like this - " The Winchester 32 Special is a fine cartridge - if you believe that smokeless powder isn't here to stay" And you also had a bow? Gee! A little overgunned, weren't you? (Just kidding) | |||
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Gerry, don't believe everything Fred had to say. The 32 Spl was always a smokeless loading from Winchester. More ME than any 30-30 load. Shot placement is always the bottom line. That said, I would have no hesitation taking my '86 Winchester 50-110 to hunt ANY Dangerous Game on the face of the earth. 350gr bullet at 2000fps, would work pretty well. One of the finest lever rifles I've seen was the 1895 for sale here a year ago in 9,3x62. That would just be the cat's a$$ for anything out there. Rich | |||
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hi dosen't Ted rosevelt used 1895 in africa? Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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I think the M95 Win would/could work fine with the 9.3x62. Most of the factory ammo I've seen would work through the action and thier pressures (factory) would be of no concern to the M95. | |||
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Back in 1973 my cousins and I were poor folk. We saved to go hunting and took what we had. Bear in mind that back then there was no internet and practically nothing current in print about African hunting. There also weren't many outfitters. It was only a luck business connection that enabled us to go at all. So no, I'm not recommending the 32 Special but if that's what you've got you should go hunting and be glad. | |||
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As NFMike notes, the M1895 should work just nifty with the 9.3x62 cartridge. I however would love to see a modern manufacture M99 Savage or M1895 Winchester factory produced for the .375 Ruger and .416 Ruger cartridges. It’d be absolutely awesome for hunting anywhere in the world…and just think of the really wildcats that could be built from the combination! Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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The lever action is an American invention and has generally and historically been used by Americans almost exclusively in America! My only concern regarding the use of a lever action in Africa would be on DG. The lever action is generally not available in DG suitable calibers and does not have as much extraction power as a bolt action. I have experienced stuck cases in my .308 Winchester caliber Savage 99 when firing South African military 7.62x51mm ammunition. The extractor just jumped out of the groove on the case head and failed to extract. Not a good thing. I think the ammo is just a bit too hot for that rifle. (Not a problem in my bolt action, BTW.) If I'm not mistaken, the only lever action that was ever used to any extent in Africa was the Winchester Model 1895, in .30-40, .30-03, .30-06 and .405 Winchester mostly. First used by Theodore and Kermit Roosevelt, and then by Stewart Edward White, Charles Cottar and others. Using one in .405 on a cow rhino got Bwana Cottar killed when it failed to stop a charge. Not enough gun. That said, I might use my .308 Winchester caliber Savage 99 on plains game, with carefully selected and proven loads, if I ever got the urge to do so. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Wife used my Browning Lever Rifle in caliber 7/08 in Namibia. Her gemsbok sits alongside mine. No problems. You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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Mr. Lexma: No offense, but poor Cottar had some really lousy bullets in those days, which accounted for much of the .405's uneven reputation. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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A Model 71 with hopped-up rounds would do it nicely....348 is a real killer!  | |||
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Browning currently chambers the BLR in .450 Marlin.....already a pretty decent bear stopper with the right load. | |||
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Idaho Sharpshooter: I always assumed that Fred Barnes was speaking of the Win. 32 Special as a successor to the 32/20. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. (I think the only reason I remember this remark is because it struck me as quite funny at the time) BTW, I am a devoted lover of lever actions - if they are Savage 99 or Win.88 -which I still think are two of the smoothest loading lever actions ever made)  | |||
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None taken! I think you are right. And I hate to see a cartridge branded as inferior when the fault lies entirely with a bad bullet choice. But in the case of the .405, I'm afraid it was more than just the bullet. The .405 needed a bit more case capacity along with a mild steel jacketed 400 grain solid, driven to 2,000-2,100 fps, to be a decent thick-skinned DG caliber - instead of the case and the weakly constructed 300 grain bullets at 2,200 that Winchester designed and provided for it. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Check this out. Pricey, too. Kilimanjaro Rifles http://kilimanjarorifles.com/c...es/lever-action.html  And yes I did, Chris Troskie Safaris 2006.  I hunt, not to kill, but in order not to have played golf.... DRSS | |||
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I can only see me carrying a bolt for african hunting but I'll share my 'bear gun'. Shoots a .510 diameter 535 woodleigh at 2060fps. Might work in a pinch?     | |||
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 Here is what one of our members Michael458 has made. They give 458 full house ballistics in a lever gun if I remember right Looks like a great idea to me. Ian | |||
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Ian Well you are close, but not quite on track. The M71 and the Marlin are chambered for 50 B&M Alaskan. .500 caliber. Take a 50 AK and squeeze it down, simple. Both rifles have 18 inch tubes, and are pretty handy, very fast. I have been so busy with the various bolt gun cartridges the last few years I have yet to get these to the field, but it is only a matter of time. The 50 B&M Alaskan is capable of shooting 500 gr Hornady at 2000 fps, excellent for thin skinned critters. I have a 470 HP and 455 gr solid that does good work and would be excellent for larger type critters. I am a huge lever gun fan and with the right bullets one will work wonders, extremely fast. I have used a lever gun quite a bit in Africa, Marlins in 45/70. Much better bullets these days than what I used back 8 yrs or so ago. Also might see some new NONCON bullets coming in the near future for some of these, might increase their performance a good bit. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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You also have to remember Cottar had, had a stroke and lost much of the use of one arm, was trying to film a charging Rhino HIMSELF and then kill the critter at the last moment. It is very likely the results would have been the same no matter what he had with him. One of his boys was nearby but he didnt want to miss the chance at the filming. | |||
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