Bullet Report
Cutting Edge Bullets - 375 Caliber – 235 grain, Raptor - Extended Range
Remington cases - Remington 9 ½M Primers – 79.5 grains of Reloader 15
Muzzle velocity 3,002 fps – Muzzle Energy - 4,704 Ft-Lbs.
Winchester Model 70 – Classic Safari Express chambered in 375 H&H Magnum.

I recently used the 235 grain CEB Raptor ER bullets on a Nyala and Bushbuck hunt in the Kwa Zulu Natal region of South Africa and this is my experience with these bullets.
My first shot was on a bushbuck was at 230 yards, almost exactly broadside with about 10 degrees of downhill elevation. The bullet struck the buck directly on the shoulder. The buck did a backflip and then lunged forward approximately 20 yards into the brush. After a long tracking session and multiple follow up shots we had a chance to examine the buck.
It appears that the initial shot with 235 grain CEB Raptor ER blew up on the buck’s shoulder and failed to penetrate into the chest cavity. We found four of the petals from the six sided hollow point in the first inch of the buck’s shoulder meat.

The buck’s shoulder bone and joint was completely destroyed and bone fragments were found in the chest cavity with some damage to the buck’s left lung but there was no bullet hole into the chest cavity.

There was a large hole in the buck’s lower chest are where it looks like the bullet core deflected straight down after breaking the shoulder, damaging the sternum.

Our conclusions were that the bullet’s hollowpoint fractured immediately on contact with the buck’s shoulder and the bullet core deflected down the leg, shattering the breastbone but not penetrating into the chest cavity.

The second shot with the 235 grain CEB Raptor ER was on a jackal at approximately 200 yards. The bullet hit the jackal in back of the ribs and exited the offside without impacting any bone. At the shot the jackal dropped immediately. Examining the jackal showed that the entrance wound was approximately 2” in diameter and the exit wound was in excess of 5” in diameter. Again, it looked like the hollowpoint shattered on impact because of the size of the entrance wound.

Most of the internal organs were destroyed and exited through the large hole in the left side of the jackal’s belly. You can see how belly skin is sagging from the large hole in the backside of the animal.

The third shot that I took with the CEB 235 grain Raptor ER was at 140 yards on an approximately 400 Lbs Nyala bull. The bull was standing on a hillside across a narrow canyon facing downhill at a slight angle to the right. The only target that I had was an almost perfect overhead shot into the bull’s spine. Normally I would have aimed on the spine directly between the bull’s shoulders so that the bullet would break the bull’s neck and travelled between the shoulders through the bull’s chest and exit through the sternum. Even if the spine is missed, the bullet would break either of the bull’s shoulders from the top and travel through the bull’s chest. Because of the performance of the bullets on the first two animals that I shot, I was afraid to try to shoot through any heavy bone. I aimed instead about a 1/3 of the way up the bull’s neck where even if the bullet failed it should damage enough of the bull’s neck to put the bull down. At the shot, the bull dropped straight down, kicked once and died.
Examination of the bull showed a caliber sized entrance hole located about 1” to the right of the bull’s mane, broken neck vertebrae and an approximately 1” diameter exit wound about 8” down the left side of the bull’s neck. This bullet performed as I would have expected any quality bullet to do. Unfortunately I did not get any pictures of the wounds, or carcass after skinning.

My opinions:

The Cutting Edge Bullets Extended Range Raptor performance is too inconsistent to be a good big game bullet. I think that because the ER bullet has a longer nose and different ogive this makes the walls of the hollow point cavity too thin and they shatter easily on impact. This may not be an issue with other CEB models as they have a great reputation but I don’t know how many people have tried their Extended Range bullets.

I contacted CEB's US Representative and the response was:

"It seems like the bullets performed perfectly on the jackal and the nyala. As for the bushbuck it’s hard to tell what happened there. Sometimes they will do something strange when they hit a harder bone. From the pictures it does look like it expanded it just didn’t penetrate like it normally would. I apologize that you feel disappointed by the bullets performances. We have customers that swear by that bullet, so we know it’s a good one, but sometimes there are things that happen that we can’t explain unfortunately. I am glad you ended up bringing down each of the animals you sought out for. We appreciate your feedback either way!"

I would object to the statement that the bullet worked perfectly on the jackal because the impression is that the bullet blew up on contact. And blaming the failure on the bushbuck on "heavy bone" is absurd! It's a bushbuck, not an eland!

Thanks for the detailed report. I use their solids in some light bullet weight, reduced recoil .470 loads, but I've never really been a fan of the raptor concept. I prefer bullets designed to stay together and retain most of their weight ....

My usual reaction to failed bullet posts is at what point before the bullet "failed" did the animal die, but these photos look like you've discovered a real problem. I certainly wouldn't shoot anything bigger than a jackal or a duiker with those bullets and then they would likely destroy any trophy and a whole lot of meat.

Would be interesting to hear from others who have used that bullet at similar velocities. Here are some thoughts on the subject from me:

The Bushbuck is a head scratcher. Every bullet ever made has had completely inexplicable things happen. Is this an anomaly or a trend?

I don't believe you can draw any conclusions from the jackal, other than soft bodied animals do weird things when a bullet hits them, especially as velocity increases. I've had huge entrance wounds from solids as well as all types of expandables on small animals.

That is very interesting. Thanks for the post. I am a fan of the CEB Solid, but figured the jury was still out on the Raptors. I have never used the raptors.

There are some experienced hunters who swear by the CEB Raptors even on buffalo. But for me, I just can't believe that the advertized performance of Raptors would work reliably every time. It is just too much to expect.

Your post has been very informative/useful to me.

For factory Softs, I will stick with Swift and Northfork for now.

Actually for buffalo I am going to try my own hard casts in my 577NE this year.

Thanks again for the objective post with useful pictures. Brian

Sounds like I will stick with the safari raptors. I have shot 3 Cape buff, a Savannah buff, roan, 2 brown bear and about 20 odd PG animals with safari raptors out of .416 and .470 with pretty much perfect performance, but maybe those ER's are too thin.

Penetration is essential. The rest, including expansion, is secondary.

I guess it depends on which Raptor you are talking about. Killed this Brownie last week in Alaska with a 375 H&H, 230 gn ESP Raptor at 2930 FPS. He went 3 feet........straight down. Follow up and initial shot blew right through him. My buddy had similar results .416 ESP Raptors.

Whoa! I didn't read the original post properly. I didn't notice it was "ER" raptors in the original posts. My Apologies. I should have noticed that.

You guys are right it looks like the "Safaris" raptors perform much differently for heavy animals.

Obviously, Good news all around. Brian

Never shot them but always wondered about that design.

Is this a vote for Woodliegh?
Cal

We tested the Sierra Match King Bullets on a hunt in South Africa - 180 grains, 30 caliber, muzzle velocity over 3400 fps.

All animals died with one shot, regardless of distance.

Some as close as a few feet.

The bullets disintegrated completely, but they killed the animals.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Is this a vote for Woodliegh?
Cal

Is this where the barrel stress topic comes up?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We tested the Sierra Match King Bullets on a hunt in South Africa - 180 grains, 30 caliber, muzzle velocity over 3400 fps.

All animals died with one shot, regardless of distance.

Some as close as a few feet.

The bullets disintegrated completely, but they killed the animals.

Likewise, I've observed this effect with not only SGKs but also Nosler BTs and Berger hunting bullets - that is, they penetrate a bit (a few inches) and then disintegrate into total kinetic-energy-dump, fragmentation "grenades". Animals drop in their tracks from the massive shock.

Berger sells this concept in support of their hunting bullets.

It works, but the bullets must get deep enough to enter the thoracic body cavity or significantly damage the CNS before they fragment and stop penetrating.

Early or superficial fragmentation seems to be more common with super-high impact velocities and/or hitting shoulder bones.

This bullet design or concept usually works for long-range shooters, because at very long range the bullets have slowed down significantly, when there is less chance of high-velocity, superficial fragmentation.

The Nosler partition bullets are an apparent compromise ("failsafe") design - that is, the front half fragments while the bottom half remains intact, penetrating more deeply.

I cannot speak first hand regarding the ESP's, but I was personally present during the several extended hunts in Australia, on our Asiatic buffalo, that involved numerous calibers, including 9.3, .416, .458, .475, .50 & .510 using and testing the Safari Raptors in various bullet weights.

I also used them exclusively for my own back-up use for the last four years of my career as a buffalo hunting guide.

In total, between the buff I saw shot by clients using these bullets, those that I anchored, and/or stopped in back-up situations whilst guiding and those I simply shot myself for control/cull work the total number of buff taken using the CEB Safari Raptors would be somewhere approaching 200.

I never witnessed a Safari Raptor fail, all far exceeding what the company marketing says they will do.
The trauma inflicted by the blades way exceeds anything I have witnessed by any other projectile on the market.
The remaining solid "shank" penetrated at least 1.5 to twice the distance expected, usually fully, including quite a few full length body shots from the rear.

My exposure to these projectiles extends way beyond a packet or two of bullets and covers half a dozen or more different calibers, including some doubles, and encompasses several hundred different animals, including around 200 buffalo, and I have no complaints whatsoever and continue to use them to this day.

Consumers may balance decisions with anecdotes given by people who have never used them, and have nothing but negative opinions, and others like me who have had 100% reliable performance results.

I can't believe the reading comprehension on this thread.
Fjold clearly states in the op CEB Raptors.
NOT SAFARI...I hope you have your glasses on when your hunting. jc

CEB Safari or ER set aside for the moment, my question is if these petals didn't penetrate more than an inch, then what would make me confident that any sheared petals would do so with certainty?

I believe it likely that had the bullet in question been placed further back it most probably would have produced massive internal damage and a one shot kill. Much like Saeed's example.

I can push conventional monos fast enough with the very light for caliber bullets out of cases with enough powder capacity to shear petals. But why? I already know that sheared petals don't penetrate for squat compared to intact but expanded bullets. The cavitation of well expanded bullets moving at speed produces a lot of damage in fragile tissue like the contents of the chest. More weight in one piece carries more momentum which equals less deflection. That is what buys the penetration to your intended target, the internal parts that need to be damaged/destroyed. Absent that, you have to be more careful about making sure the bullet CAN get into the vicinity of the organs targeted.

The thought of intentionally using a bullet made to come apart even partially to me implies limitations I have to consider in bullet placement. I use very fragile bullets for varmint work to eliminate ricochets and because I like vaporizing small troublesome critters. Once the varmints get to be more than a pound or so though, it becomes much more difficult to meet those objectives and virtually impossible for shoulder fired weapons once the target gets to be 100 pounds.

The point is that bullets that cannot accomplish their work from any angle with some margin for error don't belong in the hands of the average shooter. IMO, not even in the hands of the merely "above average" shooter. Only a tiny percentage of shooters understand the anatomy of their game and have the skill and discipline to put a bullet that doesn't have that margin for error where it MUST go.

Though not familiar with that specific bullet, I have had similar experiences when puching a bullet beyond it's velocity design parameters. One notable example is the Nosler .458 300 grain protected point designed for .45-70 velocities. When experimenting with this bullet in my .45-90, I learned that it "exploded at 2600 fps (easy to reach in the 45-90). A call to Nosler revealed that it should not exceed 2200 fps and loaded to that velocity, the range was extended and it performed nicely on game with devastating results.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Is this a vote for Woodliegh?
Cal

Is this where the barrel stress topic comes up?

No, but it is amazing how many times the wheel needs to be reinvented.
Cal

I have good results with the 275 grain CEB bullet in the 375 H&H and 370 grain in the 416.

I think 235 is too light in a 375.

The TSX is a lethal killer for such jobs.It will make both a small entrance and exit wound but the game will drop in its tracks.I had used many bullets for caribou but the TSX was better.I decided to use it on leopard and it was most impressive.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:

Berger sells this concept in support of their hunting bullets.

It works, but the bullets must get deep enough to enter the thoracic body cavity before they fragment.

I've had mixed results with Berger VLD Bullets. They're VERY accurate, but pricey. The first deer I shot with a VLD was at 260 yards, and he dropped instantly. The second deer was at 140 yards, and same results- DRT. The third (and final) deer I shot with a Berger VLD was the largest whitetail buck I've ever seen in Alabama. It was at 30 YARDS and a perfect high shoulder shot at last light. He fell immediately, but got up and ran 100 yards before falling again. Light was fading fast, so I walked up to where he fell and when I got within about 50 yards, he got up again. There was a large puddle of blood about the size of a pie plate where he had bedded. I decided to back out and came back at first light with two buddies. Long story short, we found two additional large puddles of blood, and tracked him for over a mile until he entered a flooded swamp that was much too deep to enter. I took pictures of the blood puddles and sent them to the property owner, along with the GPS location of the final blood puddle. He assured me that he'd go back in a week or two, and was sure the buzzards or coyotes would point out the remains- he never found him, nor the skeleton. Last time I used Berger VLD's on game. Our theory is that the bullet exploded on the shoulder bones, but never penetrated into the vitals. I've never seen a deer lose so much blood and still survive.

Here's a picture of the first blood puddle:

I used to shoot the 210 grain Berger VLD (i think). I had pretty good results . Dropped bucks in their tracks often without exiting. One day I shot a giant hog (500+) right on the shoulder with this round. I could hear the bullet hit. We could see a shoulder flopping . We even had a video and could see where the bullet hit. In spite of all of this , wenever found a drop of blood and never found the hog. I switched bullets.

With all this talk of the best bullet, it still comes down to shot placement rather than bullet.
We've all had to follow up game hit poorly and also seen game dropped instantly with a good shot. I've personally dropped game instantly with 60 year old bullets and also lead bullets, and had to chase game hit poorly with premium bullets. I would bet if the game you all killed immediately with your fancy bullets would also have dropped with another projectile if hit exactly the same.
Cal

If you hunt enough you will have unexplained results from bullets. I've had two broadside shots turn 90 degrees and come out the brisket. Both animals were of moderate size one bushbuck and another a Sitka blacktail. I wrote those off as flukes and continued to used the bullets as I had had great results overall with them. Most will agree I think that the 210 NP and 180 TSX have pretty good reputations. Frank's results though seem extreme and if it were me I think I'd forget about the 235 ER bullet. I have a client using the 235 TSX in his 375 this year. I'll be interested in his results.

Mark

Given enough time I'd dare say there's not a bullet made that at some point has failed too perform properly. I understand the o.p worry of the bullets not performing properly. I have used those same Bullets and had exceptional results, not saying the next one may do as described.

I'll stick with Northforks.

Sounds like the 1940s all over again..

I'll stick with Nosler, GS Customs, North Forks and Woodleighs, you know the old proven stuff that made it this far with me, see no reason to change.

Lots of problems would be solved by backing off a couple hundred FPS with most magnum calibers, and particularly big bore cartridges where 2300 to 2400 FPS is magic. I know for instance the 375 is a better killer at 2400 to 2500 FPS than its max 2600 plus. and yes with both solids and softs...Light fast bullets have never impressed me on the big stuff, but can be impressive on light weight animals.

High velocity is the culprit it seems to me..but hard to convience its clan of 4000 FPS seekers..but hey, I once believed in high velocity myself..when it works its bloody impressive, but when its bad it is very very bad.

Books and volumes of print on the subject going back ages, and its still up in the air!

With cordite, the English and Scottish could have opted for higher velocity. They decided on 2150 (approximately) for doubles and a bit more for bolt rifles. Not by chance, it is just right. The only time more is needed is in the mind of the magnumitis idiots.
Cal

I used the 275gr raptors in .375 for lion and buff and was very happy with the results. I shot my buff facing me at 100 yards through the cheek, the bullet traveled along the neck and into the lungs. All the peddles broke off and the bullet turned into a solid like it was supossed to.

MHY is right - strange things happen.

A Zebra shot last week with a 180AB from a .30-06 shouldn't have died from the wound due to poor placement, but the bullet came apart and one piece caught a lung and the liver. Same person shot an oryx with the same load in the perfect spot and the bullet performed perfectly - but the animal ran a LONG ways.

Go figure.