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Guys, I need your help to choose between a 458winmag and a 416 rigby.I already have two rifles one is a 300winmag and the other is 375H&H.mag. My first two rifles are in cz550mag and these new rifles are also in cz550mag. Hamdeni  | ||
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did you have a purpose in mind????? Animals that you wish to hunt? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Have you ever shot either caliber??? How well do you handle heavy recoil??? Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Hog Killer, I have shot a 458winmag with 400grains Federal TBBC and i was comfortable with it but i don't how much difference in recoil is 500grains. I have never shot a 416rigby. Vapodog, I was thinking of Buffalo and because nearly every one in this forum has a caliber bigger then a 375H&Hmag  Hamdeni | |||
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Just get both. Both are in the same recoil neighborhood and work pretty much the same on buffalo. The only advantage to the 458 is greater magazine capacity, in a CZ. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will, I wish i could have both but at the moment i can only take one. Hamdeni | |||
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I´m partial to the .416 as I have one myself. But the difference between a .375 and a .416 isn´t that big so I´d give the .458 som thought -but as a Lott. | |||
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Hamdeni, I am no expert, so asked the same question of a person that is, Brian Van Blerk, PH. Brian says that the 458 Win is a pretty sorry cartridge for buff and ele due to poor penetration. The 458 Lott is excellent, however, it is beyond most hunters ability to shoot well due to excessive recoil. Brian believes the 416 Remington and 416 Rigby to be the ideal large bore for most hunters. | |||
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Hamdeni, I am going to suggest you stick with the .375H&H you already have and spend the money on a hunt. It will kill anything on the planet.  ~Ann   | |||
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Not to rain on any parade, but a 375 is not a 416 or 458! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Aspen, You are right the 375H&H is a good caliber if you have a PH to back you up.I don't hunt with a PH but I have two trackers and sometimes a friend or a relative joins me. That is why i feel i need a bigger caliber. Hamdeni | |||
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Billy, What's that cloud hanging over your head?  Hamdeni, Good luck in your research! But I will vote for the .416. ~Ann | |||
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When John Taylor voted for the .375 H&H as the best all around African caliber, he sort of back slid in saying that well, a 400 would be better but was too big for most game. Ask anyone that has hunted elephant extensively and a .375 ain't the choice. No PH I know uses one. So there! (Two back at ya' )!------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Hugh W, 458lott would be nice but i don't know bad is the recoil? Hamdeni
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I think that the Lott's reputation for recoil is a bit overstated. While it is stout, if you can shoot a 416 Rigby well in a gun as heavy as the CZ then a Lott can be managed too. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Exception, please! I found the difference in the 416 (458, etc.) at 5100 ft-lb and the Lott at 5800 ft-lb to be quite noticable, and painful. But everyone is different. P.S. Brian may be talking ancient 458 WM history. Since a 458 500 gr. at 2150 fps is the same as the famous 470 NE, I hope he doesn't think the 470 NE is trash! I suspect Brian is quoting someone else.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I would vote strongly for a 458 Lott given your circumstances. The Recoil you will survive, the thrashing and stomping of a pissed Jumbo is a totally diferent matter. Learn to live with the recoil as you may not have any say in the matter on the flip side of that coin. IMO | |||
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Recoil all depends on stock fit and shape and rifle weight. A .416 Rigby is a pretty stout kicker as is a .458Lott. Either of which you can learn to shoot well with time and practise. Unless of course like you are like some of our members here from Idaho and are so old and brittle that the mere mention of a .458Lott sends you into constirpation, chillbanes and serious case of geriatric induced fliterations. But to answer your question. Either rifle will handle all of your needs handily. So it just bopils down to which you perfer. | |||
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One important difference that is often ignored is stock design. Take a factory M70 in .458 win mag, punch it out to .458 Lott, and it will be miserable and painful to use. But restock it with a stock dimensioned to dissipate recoil (NOT the A-Square Coil Check stock, by the way), and the rifle becomes tame. | |||
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Bill, I am sure your drill intsructor's favorite words were, "No pain, no gain." Heed his advice! Please tell me you aren't skeerd of a little recoil?  ~Ann | |||
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hamdeni, Buy a 458 Lott and put a good recoil pad on it. The recoil won't be much more than a 416. I have both calibers and don't see a lot of difference in felt recoil. In a hunting situation you won't feel the rifle go off anyway. CHEERS | |||
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I would suggest that you get the 458 Win Mag and never look back. I shoot a bit and have the biggies under 50 cal. I've found that the 416 Rigby tends to kick a bit more than any 458 Win Mag I own. If you get something that is way beyond your capabilities, you'll develop a monster flinch within half a box of ammo. With today's powders and great bonded core bullets, the 458 Win Mag will be with us for a long time. Reloading for the 458 Win Mag is much cheaper because of the availability of inexpensive brass and good bullets out there. One major plus is that a very good cast load or two can be developed w/o much effort. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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One of the greatest benefits of the AR forums is the outstanding value of the technical information available. Rather than relying on someone's opinion about recoil, checkout the wonderful "Recoil Observations" section that Saeed has available for us under the FAQs section upon hitting the AR site. According to this resource the following are a numeric value for recoil for each round: 416 Remington: 1117.5 416 Rigby: 1187.9 458 WM: 997.0 458 Lott: 1521.5 I personally know that the Rigby is at the outer edge of my ability to control without being afraid of a rifle. I have no desire to even try a Lott. And I have heard enough negative about 458 WM, I do not desire to own one of them. 416 Rigby why argue with success!  | |||
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hamdeni I have owned a 416 Rem mag, a 416 Weatherby and 2 different 458 bolt rifles. I now use a 450/400 and a 450 No2. I recommend the 458. With todays ammo it will do the job. Also there a lot of lighter weight bullets that you can load for practice shooting. The more you shoot the rifle the better you will get with it. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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One option not mentioned so far, which I will admit having no experience with, but have considered, is the fitting of a muzzle brake on the chosen caliber. I understand it will reduce the recoil significantly. Dave "What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value." -Thomas Paine, "American Crisis" | |||
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Here is an option: .458 Win Mag for sale! I agree with .450 No.2. With modern ammo and bullets, the .458 Win Mag will do just fine! JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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I value statistics as much as the next man but personal experience has its value too. If your decision not to shoot a Lott is based on the info above, you may be denying yourself a treat and a confidence-builder. As to brakes, they work great you won't make many new friends. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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One other thing to consider is the fact that the 458 WM is one of the softest recoiling big bores out there provided the rifle weighs at least 9.5#. It will just be a bit more of a good push than the 375. In a softer kicking biggie, that is conducive to good shooting and confidence. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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Ernest; Did you sell taht 458? Regarding the two calibers in question, all things being equal there is a definite difference in recoil between the 416 and 458. I think the 416 is a bit more versatile and Tny Sanchez Arino likes it for elephant so that's about a good an endorsement as one can get I thnk. Incidentally Will, he also recommends the 375 H&H for clients for elephants. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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475Guy is correct. We have identical rifles in 375 and 458 Win that we use for Dangerous Animal escapes. The 458 does rock you back more, but it is not as sharp/fast a jab as the 375. Standing sitting or kneeling there is not much difference. I shoot the 375 prone, but I would not want to shoot the 458 prone, if that makes sense. Either calibre is a good choice. Whichever rifle you get, do not be so quick to shoot it on the bench. Shoot 40 to 60 rounds off hand and kneeling first. They do all not have to be fired on the first day either. I still think the 458 is the best choice for a persons first big bore, as they are so cheap to shoot. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I will vote for the Lott. I have a Ruger#1 and a RSM. Many of the Bubbas and I shot the RSM yesterday with 500gr Factory loads. Shot it off hand and off of sticks. Dose it kick? Yes it do but at 5'9" and 165 lbs It did not beat me up and I was happy to shoot it. If you get the Lott and just don,t like it you can shoot Win Mag just fine. You might find the Lott to your liking though. Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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Hamdeni, Go up to the Lott it is where the 458 wanted to get to but not quite there...As for recoil if you have fired a 458 the Lott is a little more but highly manageable...I will pm you on how to hold it and not get beat up... Mike | |||
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Absolutly correct! You have the same problems with old Mauser 98 chambered in 9,3x64! BEcause of the mostly used bad stocks the 9,3x64 is called a"kicker" in Germany... :-( | |||
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Yes, take the 416 Rigby! 1. No belt 2. Lower pressure 3. Very good accuracy 4. Much better penetration than that old bastard 458 WINMAG with the soft loads you can buy. 5. I think that the 416 Rigby shots more comfertably than the 458Winmag... 6. The 416 rigby shots flatter! | |||
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I agre totally, I have both the lott and Rigby, and when you shoot a 410 gr woodleigh at 2550-2600 fps then it is similar to the lott 500 gr at 2300 fps, it's a faster recoil. | |||
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It would not make a lot of difference to me if I used a 375, 416 or 458 on anything in Africa and I have used all three... I settled on the 416 Rem and 404 Jefferys, for what reason I don't know other than they just work fine, I like the balance and feel of the 40 calibers, and have never had a failure with them. If you know how to use a .375 then it will work as well, but certain angle shot you need to pass on or simply use solids on all dangerous game.... I have a .470 double and I like it about as well as anything, but I don't put a lot of faith in the caliber of a rifle saving my bacon, its my job to put the bullet in the right spot and to use a proper bullet... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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If, you go with a .458, get the Lott. It is a much more flexable round for reloading. And will out preform the Winne. I have really enjoyed my Lott. With loads from 405gr plinkers @ 2112 fps up to 500 gr @ 2275 fps. As for the "low pressure" advantage of the Rigby, with modern powders this is not a problem. Texas can be just as hot as any place you may go in the world to hunt. If these loads will work here they will work anywhere. The "Bubba Shoot" yesterday was in heat of over 95 degrees, no pressure problems with any of our big bores. That said, the 416 Rigby is a great round, wtih a great history. If I ever got the urge for a 416 boltgun, it would get a look, if for no other reason than nostalga. Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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458Win one of us Posted 04 October 2004 19:55 The difference between the Lott and the original .458 in Hornady top factory loadings is only 100 fps. I've found reloads about the same. Hell, a little league pitcher can throw a 500 grain bullet 100fps !! It makes no difference in the field. I compare the .458 Win to the .45 ACP. they may not be the biggest or the most powerful but thousands of pros have bet their lives upon them for decades and will for You Lott Worshipers nedd to wake up and smell the coffee, The 458win with modern ammunition will do anything a Lott will Dr B | |||
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Well Hamdeni, you have received recommendations for every concievable cartridge choice known to mankind. Not sure it proves much. All I know is that the moon is green and anybody that says different is a freaking liar.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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