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| One of Us |
I was wondering what all of you feel about the recoil of the .416 magnums compared to the recoil of .458 magnums. I used to own a .416 Remington magnum in Winchester Model 70 and it hurt me to shoot the thing. I now own a used Winchester Model 70 .458 Winchester magnum that I have chronographed at a little over 2100 fps. This rifle is very easy to shoot and I'm wondering why this is. Is it the extra velocity of the .416 magnum calibers that seem to hurt or is it something else? The .416 was a model 70 as is the .458. I can also shoot my friends Krieghoff .470 double with ease compared to the .416 I used to own. What gives? Thanks, jfm | ||
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I am a puss when it comes to recoil. I don't come to the range to get hurt. I don't own and have not shot a 416, but have a 458. There is a difference in felt recoil between heavy bullets going slower and light bullets going faster. My suggestion is run the recoil numbers. How heavy is the rifle? How heavy is the bullet? How fast is it going? If you are shooting a light rifle and a BIG/FAST cartridge, it may hurt. Then option is to slow down the bullet, or make the rifle heavier. | |||
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I think you are dreaming! In equal weight rifles, the recoil momentum of the 458 will typically be noticeably more than a 416 but the recoil velocity will be less. Maybe you are more sensitive to velocity than momentum. Everybody is different. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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That's amazing. I had a 416 Rigby that I could shoot with no problem but a .470 NE double...I just don't want to shoot that again... Sendero300>>>===TerryP | |||
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jfm I think Will is correct. The velocity of the recoil can make a difference in how you feel it. I know that when I shot a Searcy 577 side by side with a Merkel 500 Nitro, the 577 seemed more comfortable to me to shoot, even though it probably has more ftlbs of recoil. The "whack" of the 500 was much faster. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Apart from weight of the rifle, would stock design and fit influence felt recoil?May be there in lies the answer?Just asking. Best- Locksley,R. "Early in the morning, at break of day, in all the freshness and dawn of one's strength, to read a book - I call that vicious!"- Friedrich Nietzsche | |||
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Per the attached -- and I do not take any claim to this info being correct -- the 458 has more umph in the recoil dept. http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm OMG!-- my bow is "pull-push feed" - how dreadfully embarrasing!!!!! | |||
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| Moderator |
I've owned and shot both too, and the 458 was definitely harder to manage than the 416 for me. Even my Rigby, when pushing 400s at 2600fps doesn't bother me as badly as the 458 or my current 450 Dakota. | |||
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I would concur that my Kreigoff .470 is a tad kinder than a .458 Model 70. Both are much more pleasant than my .338. None of the above are as pleasant to shoot as my M70 .375. Go figure. ______________________ RMEF Life Member SCI DRSS Chapuis 9,3/9,3 + 20/20 Simson 12/12/9,3 Zoli 7x57R/12 Kreighoff .470/.470 We band of 9,3ers! The Few. The Pissed. The Taxpayers. | |||
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Yes, My 45-70 kicks more than my 458 loads. | |||
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i have all of the above cal. My big Ruger 416 Rigby just seems to punish me a great deal more than the others. I have a light weight (7 lbs) Savage Safari Express 458WM that I carry for bear protection and that gun pounds me, but not as much as my 11lb Ruger 416. My 470 Krieghoff is a pussy cat compared to either of those. I also prefer my M70 .375 H&H to my M70 .338WM. I'm a believer in heavy for cal. bullets, so I typically shoot the largest standard bullet for cal. Do all the calculating you want, run the formula's, it all comes down to what it feels like to you the shooter. | |||
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This is so true it is lost sometimes. For many, the recoil velocity is what is tough to deal with. But whether it is total ft/lbs recoil or reciol velocity, it can be overcome with proper practice. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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The fit of the rifle will make a big difference, get someone knowledgable to have a look at the fit for you. | |||
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jfm, A little rifle weight goes a long way in reducing the recoil effect, but I don't want to carry any of it. A straight butt also helps enormously, for me, and I suspect that is why the Krieghoff owners above go on about their soft recoiling 470's, relatively speaking. Though shooting the different rifles with the same shaped stock is impossible, you might want to play with the recoil calculator. It might reveal why you are getting beat up. http://huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/ ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Of the several big bangs I have owned --- an 8MM Rem Mag was the hardest kicking thing I have ever owned -- for some reason that sucker just kicked the dog snot out of me --- sold it! G OMG!-- my bow is "pull-push feed" - how dreadfully embarrasing!!!!! | |||
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Its the particular "gun" not the caliber, in "like rifles" the .416 kicks considerably less than the .458, no question about it, the .375 is less than the .416 and the 338s are less than the 375, the .300 is less than 338 and so on and thats the way it works, it cannot be changed... If a .416 does not fit you and a .458 does fit then the .458 will have the "less felt" recoil.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The most painful guns I've shot, are 1.1895CB w. Garret 540gr bullets... I was bleeding, w. a sore jaw, and could barely move my arm after 18 of those. 2.Ruger #1 in 375 H&H 3. Mark X 458 Win Mag Everything else I've shot has been quite manageable... What's even more unusual, to me, is that my superposed, will occasionally leave some faint bruises on my shoulder, but I never seem to notice anything more than some slight fatigue, after shooting it for quite a bit... And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. | |||
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Recoil has to be subjective. I have a .375 H&H, 300 H&H, 9.3x62 and .33 WM and neither of them are unpleasant to shoot. However, I owned a 700 ADL 30.06 that hurt like hell. | |||
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I have only owned and shot one 458 and that was a Remington custom shop 700. I have owned two and still own one 416 Rigby. I have found the 416's to be less punishing than the 458 from offhand shooting. What is most unusual is I found my 470NE Merkel the most comfortable to shoot and not nearly so bad a recoil as either of the others. That is my percieved reaction to the recoil but I must say I am sensitive to recoil and have never achieved this resistance to recoil you are supposed to develop. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Good observation.Some rifles kick more than others of the same caliber.I think its because of the way they are designed and how efficiently they send a counter force back at you in a harmful manner.I was happy to discover that the Ruger bolt action rifle is a champ at dealing with this harmful counter force.I am so sure of this and this rifles accuracy and quick pointing,that I went out and bought another one today in my favorite african caliber,the 458 Lott.Now I'll have two,one to practice with and another on safari stanby just in case my other rifles don't measure up. | |||
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Ditto's Will and 450#2; recoil velocity is a major factor. I am more sensitive to velocity, I'd rather shoot my 500 N.E. than a 416 Rigby. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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I think the main thing to consider is which Rifle is the most accurate for you? A .375 in the heart beats a .470 in the stomach! | |||
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3.8 ft/lbs diff in the same gunweight, assuming realistic loads (83gr for 400/2400 and 70gr for 500/2100) ... I've had and shot the heck out of both, the rem recoils FAR faster than the 458 at 2100. It's understandable, and real opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Howdy I have no problems with my 416 Rem Mag with full loads and 400 grain bullets but I sold my 458 Lott because the recoil was well beyond my abilities when using a 500 grain bullet. Adios Sport | |||
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