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First of all - lawyers. Lawyers.... you know what I mean. While I surely would want to see him get serious consequences, you know he might have danced around it and not have done anything actually technically illegal. Or enough to get his butt a ticket to prison. But being a serious POS and shirking your organization and membership should carry not only some penalties, but have his butt thrown out and fast. Hopefully he is gone already. But I am saying that there is still a big SCI organization out there, excluding those POS rat basturds, that are sportsmen and individuals focused on hunters and the animals and improving that in various forms with both dedicated money and effort. Going off topic for a minute, there are so many organizations that the agenda is not in line , that SCI although the one we are concerned with here, is way down the clean house list. First there is DU which is lock step with the Feds and never even once has come out to support individual gun rights in the US since all this started swelling over again in the last few years. Why? They get a big chunk of their funding from the government(s). So they hide behind the cloak of " we don't have a position. We are only for conservation." I am a small fish and I am out but I took some big fish with me. Does DU do some good - yes. But they are a sell out for individuals. Then how about the IOC. The Olympics can't even get bids any more from many poetential hosts cities or countries. They don't pay a single cent to athletes and bilk the hosts for $5 billion at a lick. And favors never end. But again in the end the games are worth something - but that needs me and you and armed AR guys to clean it out. Then The United Nations. The king of frauds and a epic cesspool. There is enough here to fill up the internet. About all you can say is that World War 3 hasn't happened - yet. In the end SCI sure isn't perfect and the unethical there need to be outed and dealt with and suffer too. The higher up it is, i.e. President, then the harsher the penalty and legal action if you can make it stick. I also realize that SCI won't do everything and everywhere we would want, but then again who does. | |||
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So this former SCI president/lawyer - that Saeed likes to remind us of, ad nauseum. Has he done anything in all this, aside from represent one of these guys in the US, in the leopard case many years ago - and then apparently, simply walk away from the whole deal? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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To my knowledge, former SCI President Kevin Anderson has been legal counsel to Out of Africa for about the last 10 years or so. Here is an excerpt from a 2006 Newsweek article where he complains about the 'unsubstantiated allegations' concerning Out of Africa's poaching activities. This is while he was an SCI Executive Committee officer, as well as chairman of SCI's so-called 'Ethics' Committee. Newsweek: Shoot to Kill Shoot to Kill By Newsweek Staff Filed: 1/12/06 at 7:00 PM | Updated: 3/13/10 at 5:16 PM ... Debate also swirls around what many industry sources call the most controversial operator in Zimbabwe: Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris. Founded by four former South African policemen and based in both South Africa and Overland Park, Kan., the company has done a brisk business taking a heavily American clientele to hunt on several ranches that, according to industry watchdogs in Zimbabwe, were seized by ZANU-PF activists and independence war veterans. Critics, including the Zimbabwe Association of Tourism and Safari Operators, say that the group uses poorly trained hunting guides who, among other violations, sometimes endanger the lives of their clients and overhunt species in violation of the Zimbabwean government's hunting rules. Zimbabwe's Parks and Wildlife Authority banned Out of Africa last year from operating in the country. "This is an unscrupulous organization that doesn't respect the environment and pursues unsustainable quotas," says David Coltart, the opposition leader. Conservationist Johnny Rodrigues calls the company the most "flagrant violator" of hunting regulations in Zimbabwe. Dawie Groenewald, one of the founding partners of Out of Africa, denies that his company has done anything ethically wrong and says that he has been slandered by white Zimbabwean hunters. "The white Zimbabweans hunting in Zim don't want anyone else coming in there to hunt--they hate South Africans coming to hunt in their kingdom," he told NEWSWEEK. Out of Africa's attorney, Kevin Anderson, says that "these allegations about poaching and other illegal activities have been floating around for several years and they've never been substantiated." Anderson also says that Out of Africa recently decided to stop organizing hunts in Zimbabwe because "it's just become too difficult." Whatever the case, next week in Reno, Out of Africa will set up its usual booth at the SCI convention--just down the hall from Buffalo Range Safaris, according to the SCI Website. But for the hundreds of American sportsmen browsing for an African safari next week, finding out the full story of those two companies' activities in Zimbabwe will require a real hunting expedition. These so-called allegations Kevin Anderson complained about became substantiated facts in U.S. District Court in the Middle District of Alabama, on January 29, 2010, when Dawie Groenewald was arrested for smuggling an illegally killed leopard into the United States. Kevin Anderson unsuccessfully defended Dawie Groenewald in this case as well. http://www.justice.gov/usao/al...4_16_groenewald.html South African Safari Owner Sentenced For His Role In The Illegal Importation Of A Leopard A few months later (September 2010), Dawie Groenewald was busted again in South Africa for poaching rhino and selling their horns. He faces 1500 charges and is accused of killing more than 50 rhino in that case. Here is a link to a good synopsis of the story, including the latest charges in the US. As a bonus, there is also an update on Hugo Ras for allegedly poaching rhino, racketeering, money laundering and selling rhino horn. I have been told Hugo was Dawie's commanding officer in South African Police Services before Dawie and Janneman got drummed out of SAPS for selling stolen cars from the police impoundment lot. US add to ‘Groenewald Gang’ charge sheet All in all a quite a resume for SCI's golden boy, don't you think? For about 10 years, Out of Africa was one of the top donators of hunts to the SCI convention as well as the local chapter fundraisers. Despite over 25 complaints from rank and file SCI members about being extorted and ripped off by Out of Africa, no action was ever taken by SCI to ban them, until the leopard smuggling charge forced SCI to act. Even then, Out of Africa was only banned from exhibiting at the national convention... the local fund raisers were not mentioned. It must be a coincidence that Kevin Anderson was their attorney and so-called Ethics Committee chairman during this period. Probably also coincidental that one year later Kevin Anderson was elected SCI President. I find it amusing when the people who were Out of Africa's biggest supporters and loudest apologists are now proclaiming how they "fought against Out of Africa the whole time". Unfortunately for them, the record does not support their protestations of ignorance or innocence. Like the original article says, "The Out of Africa investigation is continuing.  Cheers, ~ Alan Life Member NRA Life Member SCI email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow | |||
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OK I thought it was before 2010. The whole thing is a fucking mess, that's for sure. With regard to the SCI chapters. I think it has been acknowledged that there has been a communication disconnect between the Int body and the chapters. I dont think that was intended to deceive. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Kevin Anderson was actively involved with the crooks of Out of Africa. How come everyone else was hearing about their crimes, except him? He is the sort of bloody lawyer who gives the whole profession a bad name! | |||
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KA is not just an attorney, but also principal in the law firm of Anderson & Milholland, at one time as principal his other titles included: President-Elect of SCI and SCIF Chairman of Legal Task Force of SCI Member of Exeutive Committee of SCI | |||
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In for a penny, in for a pound ha? | |||
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Any dolt can clearly see that if he was the President he would also be on the Executive Committee... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Yes, and any dolt can clearly see there was no "communication disconnect between the Int body and the chapters". Dawie tried to run Tielman Erasmus in to the local chapters to carry the ball, but USFWS busted him as well, and sent him packing with a $10K fine. No amount of sycophantic bullshit can make any of this look good. The only way this will ever go away is for the perpetrators, who consorted with Out of Africa and ZANU-PF to rape the game ranches, conservancies, and National Parks of Zimbabwe, to go to jail... no matter who they are. Cheers, ~ Alan Life Member NRA Life Member SCI email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow | |||
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Kevin Anderson himself declared that exact list I gave of his official SCI titles, in an actual case document for the United States District Court of Arizona. Since its deemed proper to do so by the USDC and by principal attorney Kevin Anderson himself surely its then fair & appropriate to list all his official SCI titles the same way on AR. However, feel free to contact KA and the USDC of Arizona and tell them both what 'dolts' they all are.....  | |||
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Exactly. ~Ann   | |||
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I am not a sycophant, not in the slightest. I am saying that OOA is not the only example of where a donor has been barred by international but chapters still accept donations from them. I don't believe this is deliberate on the part of SCI itself. Just a (extreme) lack of communication. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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its not deliberate? so the national part of SCI doesn't derive any benefit from chapter fund raising activities? so money raised at the local level all stays in the local chapter area and doesn't filter back to Arizona?????? ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I have met people in chapters that took OOA contributions that had no idea of the action by SCI. I also have a problem with the Andersen/OOA connection. However, I truly believe there was a lack of communication to the chapters. | |||
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Ahh OK, so now you have a conspiracy theory. Seriously? Chapters choose their own fundraising donors and ultimately send a portion of the raised funds back to the main body. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Thank you Larry. I think it is quite common as I said before, not just with OOA. The whole thing is a horrible mess. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Matt, The sad part is people like yourself, who will defend SCI no matter what, is empowering them to carry on. So much was public knowledge about the crimes members of Out of Africa were up to, and people have been telling SCI for years about them. But, SCI, being an organization run by crooks, decided everyone was lying, and the crooks of Out of Africa were telling the truth! A mini BANANA REPUBLIC is what they should be called! | |||
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Have you been taking lessons from Trax Saeed? Or just having trouble reading? I am telling you that there is (or was?) a PROBLEM with a disconnect between SCI and the chapters. No doubt a disconnect with the membership too. Not making excuses. Not defending them in the least... they screwed up!!!! Meanwhile - Groenewald et al walk freely and rhinos are still being poached. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Why blame any chapters when the head honcho at SCI is being paid to defend the crimes of Out of Africa? Wouldn't any chapter have referred to who is supporting them at headquarters and just carried on? We have heard here many times, chapters do great work, it is the people at the top of SCI who are as guilty as sin! | |||
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ALAN first mentioned the chapters... and I made a comment regarding that. The point being - that the chapters have operated independently and groups like OOA have exploited that fact to continue their operations.
A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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And the same lot who ran Out of Africa are involved in at least one SCI chapter right now! | |||
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As I see it, there must have been a degree of (perhaps deliberate?  ) 'info disconnect' between at least some of the SCI directors and others and also some (perhaps deliberate? ) misinformation such as the KA statement about the OoA accusations being entirely unfounded but to me the question is how much of it was deliberate, who was involved and will any guilty parties (whoever they are and wherever they're from) face investigation and possible prosecution for charges such as corruption and racketeering?I think it'd be entirely wrong to blame SCI and/or it's members as a whole but it strikes me that at least some of the guys in control of either the entire corporation or it's chapters must have been involved. - If not, they must be so naive they shouldn't be in charge of their own dinner money let alone anything else. How's that for a diplomatic way of putting it!  | |||
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Oh it wouldnt surprise anyone if there was a (had been some) deliberate disconnect in this case - but what I have said is that OOA is not alone and the disconnect was ongoing. I know this because I pointed out some other 'anomalies' with the Chapter donations to SCI at another time and they were quite shocked that the Chapters weren't up to speed. But how can they be if no one TELLS THEM!!! We all know that these are the kind of loopholes that crooks will pick-up-on and exploit. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Well speak!! Tell them.... Dammit Saeed you are a member - take action!!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Bearing in mind that ordinary members were being tucked up left, right and centre and that at least some of those members will have been also complaining/talking to their individual chapters, it'd be unreasonable to suggest that no-one except the (so called) ethics committee knew what was going on......... but of course, a criminal investigation should be able to clear such matters up. SCI could and should be a momentous force for the good of hunting but it needs a thorough clear out of the dodgy bastards (whatever position they hold) to say nothing of readdressing it's other problems and issues so that it can actually start being 'first for hunters' as it could and should be. | |||
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Yes they were, and yes no doubt many were talking to their chapters - but the chapters are entirely staffed by volunteers. Ethics committee - enough said on that. Not sure what criminal investigation would be called to investigate these workings unless it was peripheral to this current case. SCI has many failings and many good points too. It is still the largest and most powerful organisation of its type in the world. Members are not locked-out - these members must be active and vigilant if they are to see this organisation perform. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Agreed that it is the largest organization , but when have they ever listened to anything the membership say? | |||
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They certainly listened on the SCI booking agency matter. | |||
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Yes they did Larry. But, did they have any choice after making such a stupid decision in the first place? I would not trust those bozos to come up with anything that makes sense! | |||
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Matt: And for a good reason did Alan mention the Chapters. Not all Chapter Presidents walk with a halo hanging over their heads; quite a few of these individuals are of the same genetic pool and partake in sharing the spoils of the likes of KA and Company. I say this convincingly as I have had the "privilege" of meeting a few of these "distinguished" gentlemen. | |||
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Interesting..... 3 senior positions.  Santa Claus | |||
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