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DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
______________________________________________________________________________
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 23, 2014 (202) 514-2007 WWW.JUSTICE.GOV (866) 544-5309


OWNERS OF SAFARI COMPANY INDICTED FOR ILLEGAL RHINO HUNTS

Out of Africa Charged with Wildlife Crimes, Fraud and Money Laundering

The owners of Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris were charged with conspiracy to sell illegal rhinoceros hunts in South Africa in order to defraud American hunters, money laundering and secretly trafficking in rhino horns, announced Sam Hirsch Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department’s Environment and Natural Resources Division; George L. Beck, Jr., U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Alabama; and Dan Ashe, Director of the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. The indictment was unsealed today in Montgomery, Alabama following the federal indictment.

The indictment charges Dawie Groenewald, 46, and his brother, Janneman Groenewald, 44, both South African nationals, and their company Valinor Trading CC (d/b/a Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris) with conspiracy, Lacey Act violations, mail fraud, money laundering and structuring bank deposits to avoid reporting requirements. The Lacey Act, the nation’s oldest criminal statute addressing illegal poaching and wildlife trafficking, makes it a crime to sell animal hunts conducted in violation of state, federal, tribal and foreign law.

According to the 18-count indictment, from 2005 to 2010, the Groenewald brothers traveled throughout the United States to attend hunting conventions and gun shows where they sold outfitting services and accommodations to American hunters to be conducted at their ranch in Mussina, South Africa. During the time period covered by the indictment, Janneman Groenewald lived in Autauga County, Alabama, where Out of Africa maintained bank accounts and is accused of money laundering and structuring deposits to avoid federal reporting requirements. Hunters paid between $3,500 and $15,000 for the illegal rhino hunts.

The defendants are charged with selling illegal rhino hunts by misleading American hunters. The hunters were told the lie that a particular rhino had to be killed because it was a “problem rhino.” Therefore, while no trophy could be legally exported, the hunters could nonetheless shoot the rhino, pose for a picture with the dead animal, and make record book entries, all at a reduced price. Meanwhile, the defendants are alleged to have failed to obtain necessary permits required by South Africa and cut the horns off some of the rhinos with chainsaws and knives.

The indictment alleges that the defendants then sold the rhino horn on the black market. Eleven illegal hunts are detailed in the papers filed in federal court, including one in which the rhino had to be shot and killed after being repeatedly wounded by a bow, and another in which Dawie Groenewald used a chainsaw to remove the horn from a sedated rhino that had been hunted with a tranquilizer gun. The American hunters have not been charged.

“We are literally fighting for the survival of a species today. In that fight, we will do all we can to prosecute those who traffic in rhino horns and sell rhino hunts to Americans in violation of foreign law,” said Sam Hirsch, Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Environment and Natural Resources Division. “This case should send a warning shot to outfitters and hunters that the sale of illegal hunts in the U.S. will be vigorously prosecuted regardless of where the hunt takes place.”

“These defendants tricked, lied and defrauded American citizens in order to profit from these illegal rhinoceros hunts,” stated U.S. Attorney Beck. “Not only did they break South African laws, but they laundered their ill-gotten gains through our banks here in Alabama. We will not allow United States’ citizens to be used as a tool to destroy a species that is virtually harmless to people or other animals.”

“The fact that defendants used American hunters to execute this scheme is appalling - but not as appalling as the brutal tactics they employed to kill eleven critically endangered wild rhinos,” said FWS Director Ashe. “South Africa has worked extraordinarily hard to protect its wild rhino population, using trophy hunts as a key management tool. The illegal ‘hunts’ perpetrated by these criminals undermine that work and the reputation of responsible hunters everywhere.”

Rhinoceros are an herbivore species of prehistoric origin and one of the largest remaining mega-fauna on earth. Adult rhinoceros have no known natural predators. All species of rhinoceros are protected under United States and international law. Since 1976, trade in rhinoceros horn has been regulated under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), a treaty signed by over 170 countries around the world to protect fish, wildlife and plants that are or may become imperiled due to the demands of international markets. Nevertheless, the demand for rhinoceros horn and black market prices have skyrocketed in recent years due to the value that some cultures have placed on ornamental carvings, good luck charms or alleged medicinal purposes, leading to a decimation of the global rhinoceros population. Like hair or finger nails, rhino horn is actually composed of keratin and has no proven medical efficacy. As a result, rhino populations have declined by more than 90 percent since 1970. South Africa, for example, has witnessed a rapid escalation in poaching of live animals, rising from 13 in 2007 to a record 1004 in 2013. Illegally killed rhinos like the ones charged in this prosecution are not included in the published statistics of poached animals.

An indictment contains allegations that a defendant has committed a crime. Every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The investigation of Out of Africa is part of Operation Crash (named for the term “crash” which describes a herd of rhinoceros), an ongoing nationwide effort to detect, deter and prosecute those engaged in the illegal killing of rhinoceros and the unlawful trafficking of rhinoceros horns led by the Special Investigations Unit of the Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement in coordination with the U.S. Department of Justice. Thus far there have been 26 arrests and 18 convictions with prison terms as high as 70 months. (See attached Crash Fact Sheet). Throughout the course of the investigation on the current charges, U.S. authorities received substantial cooperation from South Africa’s National Prosecuting Authority and a specialized endangered species unit within the organized crime unit of the South African Police Service. That unit is known as the Hawks. Additional assistance has been provided in this case by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, in Montgomery, Alabama and the Autauga County, Alabama Sheriff’s Office. The Out of Africa case is being prosecuted in the Middle District of Alabama by Assistant U.S. Attorney Brandon K. Essig and by Richard A. Udell, Senior Litigation Counsel with the Environmental Crimes Section of the U.S. Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. The Out of Africa investigation is continuing.

The Criminal Division’s Office of International Affairs provided assistance.



-


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
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email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

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Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

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Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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National Geographic had a big article on this.
 
Posts: 12134 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
National Geographic had a big article on this.


U.S. Indictment Accuses South African Brothers of Trafficking Rhino Horns

Safari outfitters allegedly duped hunters into paying extra to illegally shoot rhinos.

U.S. authorities today announced the indictment of the alleged kingpin of a South African rhino poaching and trafficking syndicate, Dawie Groenewald, and his brother, Janneman, and their company Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris on multiple charges, including conspiracy, money laundering, and wildlife crime.


The Groenewald brothers own and operate Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris, an outfitter that organizes and conducts trips in private hunting areas in Botswana, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, and South Africa, including at their 10,600-acre (4,300-hectare) game farm, Prachtig, about 40 miles (60 kilometers) south of the town of Musina, in South Africa's Limpopo Province.

U.S. authorities will be seeking to extradite the brothers from South Africa.

According to the 18-count indictment, between 2005 and 2010 the Groenewald brothers duped nine American hunters at their ranch into illegally shooting rhinos.

The brothers would then cut off the horns and sell them on the black market in Asia.

The Groenewalds and their safari company solicited American hunters at large regional sportsmen's shows, including Safari Club International conventions.

They also donated hunts to local chapters of Safari Club International in Kansas City, Missouri, and a National Rifle Association convention in Louisville, Kentucky.


They later offered hunters add-ons, such as the chance to shoot rhinos for additional fees (typically around $10,000). The outfitters said those rhinos were "problem" animals that were "dangerous" and "aggressive" and could be hunted legally. (Related: "Q&A: Can Airlifting Rhinos Out of South Africa Save the Species?")

The Groenewalds said that although the hunters couldn't export a rhino's horn as a trophy, they could measure it and take photographs and videos of the hunt and of themselves posed with the dead animal, which could then be submitted to record books.

The Groenewalds and Out of Africa also offered Americans the chance to conduct "green" hunts, when the hunter would shoot a rhinoceros with a tranquilizer gun and then pose for photographs with the sedated animal.

The Groenewalds, however, never obtained the necessary permits, and they also concealed the fact that the hunts would be in violation of South African law.

After photos were taken, the Groenewalds or their staff would cut off the horns with chainsaws or knives and sell the horns in Asia.

In essence, they earned profit twice: once for the sale of the hunt and again when they trafficked the horns.


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn

Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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In another 10 years or so we may actually see a conviction... or not.

Don't hold your breath.

coffee


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Posts: 22445 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Aren't the same people running another safari company now?

Which I understand are in very close relationship with some high ranking SCI members??


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Every time SCI is mentioned - it takes the focus AWAY from the Groenewald's.


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Posts: 4456 | Location: Australia | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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Who actually "owned" the rhinos they were killing???


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Every time SCI is mentioned - it takes the focus AWAY from the Groenewald's.


The Groenewalds would never have gotten as far as they did if it wasn't for SCI's undying support!


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
The Groenewalds would never have gotten as far as they did if it wasn't for SCI's undying support!


Come on Saeed, isn't SCI a victim of the Groenwalds also?.... animal
 
Posts: 9434 | Location: Here & There- | Registered: 14 May 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Every time SCI is mentioned - it takes the focus AWAY from the Groenewald's.


The Groenewalds would never have gotten as far as they did if it wasn't for SCI's undying support!
Time to move on... 'SCI' would never have knowingly sanctioned illegal rhino hunts. No not ever.


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Posts: 4456 | Location: Australia | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Trax:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
The Groenewalds would never have gotten as far as they did if it wasn't for SCI's undying support!


Come on Saeed isn't SCI a victim of the Groenwalds also?.... animal


SCI has a knack of supporting crooks!
What is that old saying; "birds of a feather flock together" comes to mind!


Just look at their record!


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

SCI has a knack of supporting crooks!
What is that old saying; "birds of a feather flock together" comes to mind!


Just look at their record!
What you are really saying is that the 'industry' supports crooks. That may well be the case.


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Posts: 4456 | Location: Australia | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Time to move on... 'SCI' would never have knowingly sanctioned illegal rhino hunts. No not ever.


No, Nay, Never,... No, Nay, Never, No More ..... will I play the wild rover ..... Big Grin
 
Posts: 2731 | Registered: 23 August 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

SCI has a knack of supporting crooks!
What is that old saying; "birds of a feather flock together" comes to mind!


Just look at their record!
What you are really saying is that the 'industry' supports crooks. That may well be the case.


No Matt I am not saying that at all.

I will repeat it for you, just in case you did not get it the 100 and so times before.

SCI has been supporting crooks for years.

All the crooks need do is get in bed with some crooked board member - and by the looks of things there are plenty of them have been running SCI!

We have not heard the end of this.

Some highly placed SCI members are already in a very cosy position with some of Out of Africa employees!


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Like I said - you guys fail to focus on the real issue here - the misuse of South Africa's rhinos.


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Posts: 4456 | Location: Australia | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Like I said - you guys fail to focus on the real issue here - the misuse of South Africa's rhinos.


What is SCI's moto?

FIRST FOR HUNTERS!

What are they concentrating on?

Glorifying each other at whatever cost - even by breaking laws! completely forgetting the above moto!


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I hope they get hammered hard in the US and do some serious time, because apparently in SA you only get 5yrs for killing a girlfriend of which if you behave well in prison you get out in 10 months.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Thierry Labat:
I hope they get hammered hard in the US and do some serious time, because apparently in SA you only get 5yrs for killing a girlfriend of which if you behave well in prison you get out in 10 months.


And don't forget the number times their "dockets" somehow gets lost!


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I quit SCI several years ago because of the lack of action pertaining to OoA. They continued to allow these criminals to be a part of the money machine despite the facts.


~Ann





 
Posts: 19639 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Being indicted in The US throws these guys into deep water. People in danger of drowning often flail about and it might be interesting to see who they drag down with them.
 
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Does the US have an extradition treaty with RSA? Probably.
 
Posts: 2827 | Location: Seattle, in the other Washington | Registered: 26 April 2006Reply With Quote
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Let's just hope these crooks get serious prison time, and that their network of supporters is fully outed. Then we shall see if Saeed is right.


There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
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Posts: 16679 | Location: Las Cruces, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Wow - That didn't take long, huh? A guy posts an informative piece of info about a situation we are ALL in agreement with, and it is immediately turned into an SCI Bashing Thread in a heart beat by the "you know whos". Not surprising though. Shameful at best.

Larry Sellers
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R8 Blaser
 
Posts: 3460 | Location: Jemez Mountains, New Mexico | Registered: 09 February 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Wow - That didn't take long, huh? A guy posts an informative piece of info about a situation we are ALL in agreement with, and it is immediately turned into an SCI Bashing Thread in a heart beat by the "you know whos". Not surprising though. Shameful at best.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser


I think we as hunters should all be ashamed of what SCI has been up to.

After all, they claim to represent us all worldwide!

I wish they would, instead of following their silly self glorifying policies, and supporting every crook in the business as long as they are buddy buddy with their top management!


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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SCI or rather, SCI management have certainly proved themselves to be as bent as nine bob notes many times in recent years but in fairness and as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence to suggest the hunters involved in this particular case are or are not SCI members....let alone high ranking members and my guess is the guys involved were more likely to be just dumb clucks (or something similar) who just wanted a cheap way to shoot a rhino...... some may well have been SCI members but equally, many may well not have been.

One important question to me is why the USG have chosen not to prosecute the hunters when it's reasonably clear they must have broken the law and the USG must know the names of at least some of them and ignorance is no excuse as the old saying goes.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
SCI or rather, SCI management have certainly proved themselves to be as bent as nine bob notes many times in recent years but in fairness and as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence to suggest the hunters involved in this particular case are or are not SCI members....let alone high ranking members and my guess is the guys involved were more likely to be just dumb clucks (or something similar) who just wanted a cheap way to shoot a rhino...... some may well have been SCI members but equally, many may well not have been.

One important question to me is why the USG have chosen not to prosecute the hunters when it's reasonably clear they must have broken the law and the USG must know the names of at least some of them and ignorance is no excuse as the old saying goes.


Steve,

Don't forget that Out of Africa's lawyer was a high ranking SCI board member!

How crooked can one get?


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
SCI or rather, SCI management have certainly proved themselves to be as bent as nine bob notes many times in recent years but in fairness and as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence to suggest the hunters involved in this particular case are or are not SCI members....let alone high ranking members and my guess is the guys involved were more likely to be just dumb clucks (or something similar) who just wanted a cheap way to shoot a rhino...... some may well have been SCI members but equally, many may well not have been.

One important question to me is why the USG have chosen not to prosecute the hunters when it's reasonably clear they must have broken the law and the USG must know the names of at least some of them and ignorance is no excuse as the old saying goes.


Most of our criminal laws require an element of knowledge or willfulness in the breaking of the law. But not all. There is also the doctrine of "reasonable reliance" on a person in authority to provide you with accurate information regarding laws and regulations. Reasonable reliance doctrine doesn't really fit here (since it typically involves a defendant's reliance on the words of a government official,) but the prosecutors were probably sympathetic to the hunters' reliance on the guides and outfitter in SA wrt staying within SA's laws and regs, since in the real world it is entirely reasonable. Plus they probably got the hunters' enthusiastic cooperation by dealing fairly with them.

JPK


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Posts: 4900 | Location: Chevy Chase, Md. | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JPK:
quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
SCI or rather, SCI management have certainly proved themselves to be as bent as nine bob notes many times in recent years but in fairness and as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence to suggest the hunters involved in this particular case are or are not SCI members....let alone high ranking members and my guess is the guys involved were more likely to be just dumb clucks (or something similar) who just wanted a cheap way to shoot a rhino...... some may well have been SCI members but equally, many may well not have been.

One important question to me is why the USG have chosen not to prosecute the hunters when it's reasonably clear they must have broken the law and the USG must know the names of at least some of them and ignorance is no excuse as the old saying goes.


Most of our criminal laws require an element of knowledge or willfulness in the breaking of the law. But not all. There is also the doctrine of "reasonable reliance" on a person in authority to provide you with accurate information regarding laws and regulations. Reasonable reliance doctrine doesn't really fit here (since it typically involves a defendant's reliance on the words of a government official,) but the prosecutors were probably sympathetic to the hunters' reliance on the guides and outfitter in SA wrt staying within SA's laws and regs, since in the real world it is entirely reasonable. Plus they probably got the hunters' enthusiastic cooperation by dealing fairly with them.

JPK


Was the SCI PRESIDENT who represented Out of Africa providing them with the relevant advice to avoid prosecution? clap


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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http://www.justice.gov/sites/d...rhino_indictment.pdf



Copy of indictment, lists hunters by numbers not names.


Kathi

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Posts: 9535 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I quit SCI several years ago because of the lack of action pertaining to OoA. They continued to allow these criminals to be a part of the money machine despite the facts.
What FACTS Ann????? This is about RHINO POACHING. Are you suggesting SCI was involved in this rhino poaching? Seriously....


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Posts: 4456 | Location: Australia | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Don't forget that Out of Africa's lawyer was a high ranking SCI board member!

Just sheer coincidence maybe?... Big Grin

Everyone has a right to a defence,
however,You'd think any high rank from SCI would be contributing to help get law breaking grubs convicted,
rather than off the hook.....Lest one has undisclosed vested interest in seeing them off the hook.



quote:
The outfitters said those rhinos were "problem" animals that were "dangerous" and "aggressive" and could be hunted legally.


so everyone who apparently claims to be innocently involved/victims of the Groenwalds, took them on their word alone?
Im not sure if 'dupped' is entirely the correct term to use.


quote:
The Groenewalds, however, never obtained the necessary permits,


Good grief, No one would wrangle me into killing a Rhino lest I held and then read the required documents with my very own eyes.
 
Posts: 9434 | Location: Here & There- | Registered: 14 May 2008Reply With Quote
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHlGHkbzb0


News interview discussing extradition and other aspects of the case.


Kathi

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Posts: 9535 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Surely it doesn't surprise anyone that the rats always try to get cozy up in the top with the various legitimate organizations. This happens in all business.

Not unlike Madoff and the SEC. These things can go on for years - then the floodgates open.

I am not sure SCI has any relevant powers that we seem to assign to them. It is a pretty fair given that SCI has no agenda to protect these kind of operations.

And they (SCI) probably hear misleading stories every day. So lacking any incontrovertible evidence SCI goes along with what seems to be good and working on the ground at the time.

But that is a long way from being complicit in the various real wrong doings.

Like all of us I want these guys and their accomplices shut down and punished. But when the Fed gets in to your sport, then there is a big chance that it will not end and it will not end well for us the sportsmen as has been evidenced before.
 
Posts: 1440 | Location: Houston, Texas USA | Registered: 16 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Fact no 1 - head of ethics committee was the attorney defending Gronewald in the leopard smuggling case! Why associate with a criminal?

Fact no 2 - the same attorney was President elect! President of the worlds no one hunter conservation group also defends the worlds biggest rhino poacher!

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
quote:
Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I quit SCI several years ago because of the lack of action pertaining to OoA. They continued to allow these criminals to be a part of the money machine despite the facts.
What FACTS Ann????? This is about RHINO POACHING. Are you suggesting SCI was involved in this rhino poaching? Seriously....


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 11400 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Fact no 1 - head of ethics committee was the attorney defending Gronewald in the leopard smuggling case! Why associate with a criminal?

Fact no 2 - the same attorney was President elect! President of the worlds no one hunter conservation group also defends the worlds biggest rhino poacher!


SCI says its first for hunters,
clearly that includes putting the lowlife dirtbag ones that bring hunting into global disrepute, first as well.

However its no different to another org. who supposedly represented many responsible hunters in another part of the globe,
yet, when the acting CEO got busted-charged by police for multiple firearm/trespass/illegal hunting offences, his high level colleagues
ran to his defence, -'guaranteeing'- his innocence....however when it came to the courtroom, the defendants rolled over and pleaded guilty... rotflmo

- At one point idiots 'guaranteeing' innocence prior to any proper official investigation by law enforcement,
vividly claimed it was the greenies who did the crimes and then tried to put the blame on hunters.
Of course such ill-conceived rash false statements were not backed up by what extensive police investigation found regarding the incident.
When we have high level hunting representatives behaving as bad as some radical greenies, the sport of hunting clearly has problems in its ranks.

Just remember, when it comes to money,position,power and politics, all orgs(hunting or otherwise),are all equally susceptible to corruption,
sleight of hand and coverup attempts....anyone who naively thinks SCI is not equally capable of such, has their head in the sand.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"-Sir John Dalberg Acton, Member for Parliament for Bridgnorth.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by TexKD:
Surely it doesn't surprise anyone that the rats always try to get cozy up in the top with the various legitimate organizations. This happens in all business.

Not unlike Madoff and the SEC. These things can go on for years - then the floodgates open.

I am not sure SCI has any relevant powers that we seem to assign to them. It is a pretty fair given that SCI has no agenda to protect these kind of operations.

And they (SCI) probably hear misleading stories every day. So lacking any incontrovertible evidence SCI goes along with what seems to be good and working on the ground at the time.

But that is a long way from being complicit in the various real wrong doings.

Like all of us I want these guys and their accomplices shut down and punished. But when the Fed gets in to your sport, then there is a big chance that it will not end and it will not end well for us the sportsmen as has been evidenced before.


When it comes to Out of Africa, SCI did not just turn a blind eye to their crimes, they had the SCI bloody PRESIDENT as their lawyer!

And despite the facts that SCI were told continuously what Out of Africa is up to, they never did anything until the USF&W got involved.


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Incredibly - Saeed is left with Trax and nakihunter to support his anti-SCI rants. Roll Eyes Bottom of the barrel right there....


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Posts: 4456 | Location: Australia | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Incredibly - Saeed is left with Trax and nakihunter to support his anti-SCI rants. Roll Eyes Bottom of the barrel right there....


We have a loooong way to go to get to the bottom of the barrel as long as SCI and its cheerleaders reside there clap


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Posts: 69286 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Surely it doesn't surprise anyone that the rats always try to get cozy up in the top with the various legitimate organizations


There's a handful around here who appear to have the right credentials. coffee
 
Posts: 2731 | Registered: 23 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Bearing in mind how so many people complained to the SCI ethics committee about the dodgy practices of OoA for so many years and how the ethics committee consistently rejected all complaints for so long, I'm surprised there were no corruption charges laid against at least some of the committee.

Either way, it's good to see the US justice dept now placing charges and let's hope the American law processes are faster than the RSA ones appear to be. Smiler






 
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