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I have come across a few safari operators who charge $150 for a missed shot. We are talking a miss not drawing blood. I see pros's and cons theoretically but something about it bothers me. From the PH perspective I guess it will make you only take more certain shots. It may be a motivator for someone to practice shooting more before the hunt. Once again to me it is bad enough that you missed without adding insult to injury by paying a fine. Other opinions? Jim | ||
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Find another operator. Sometimes misses just....happen. For reasons that are hard to explain. Could be a scope problem, maybe a bad load in that specific round, maybe there is a cross wind farther down range you are not aware of....if they want me to pay 150$ for a miss, I want them to refund me 150$ for every inch under a certain size animal they can/cannot find for me or they tell me to shoot. Guide says thats a 40" oryx and it tapes 37.75", well you owe me 315$. Oh, and no extra charges for going over on size of course  since they're not going to pay ME 150$ for NOT missingIf you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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It might be reasonable if you are paying only by the trophy, without a daily rate, because the guide has done his part to procure the trophy even though you did not do yours. It does not seem reasonable to me if you are paying a daily rate for the guide. You have paid him for his services for the day, regardless of the number of stalks, successful or not. . | |||
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Absurd.................no operator worth his salt should be charging for :missed shots" Thats about the most ludicrous charge I have ever heard of. Best you be dealing with a different operator...mt 5 cents worth!!!! | |||
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Absolutely agree. Your paying a daily rate, then paying for a clean miss is nonsense. Bob Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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Never heard of such a thing. No blood no coin! | |||
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http://www.visit-transylvania....in-transylvania.html I have seen this in advertised hunts that are conducted in Europe. The link is just one example of the fees for a missed shot. If you "google" europe missed hunting shot fees, you can check on countries, operators and their missed fee rates. Never heard of the practice in Africa. Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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Jim, I have one comment and that is BULLSHIT! Charging for a miss is not a standard practice and in fact I've never heard of that practice. Do not book with this outfit because who knows what other shenanigans they might come up with. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Absolute and utter poppycock ! A miss is a miss and as Vandyboy phrased it, "no blood no coin" Can happen to anyone to miss for whatever reason. What Kathi says is also true - happens on those top dollar European hunting reserves. | |||
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It's actually a carry over from local hunters/hunting in SA and a few other places. A lot of those guys think that because Grandaddy could take a monocle out at 500 yards, so can they and they like to take head shots at long range....... and the think they missed because they don't find paint or pins whereas they've actually done something like take the jaw out....... I'm sure I'm not the only one who's gone into an area after these clowns and spent a day or two clearing up their messes. Most places that charge that fee to overseas hunters usually/probably cater mostly for the local market. | |||
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In SA the "Pull and Pay" policy is commonplace with those operations that cater to local biltong hunters who sometimes shoot away at anything and everything, take running shots, etc. You cannot enforce personal shooting ethics but you can make guys think before they shoot. It certainly eliminates excessive wounding. Additionally, the locals are usually out hunting with only a black tracker from the farm with them. I have never seen this policy applied to foreign clients who have licensed PHs with them. Ken Moody | |||
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Stealing... Should one charge a PH or a safari company if you do not get intended animal? You can see trophy and Ph can't get you close for a shot. Its hunting and everyone can and will be humbled with a missed shot. Mike | |||
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The only hunters, outfitters and PHs who haven't missed are those who are waiting to do so. And it won't require more than one season. To think otherwise is just silly. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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If you know of operators who are charging for such utter nonsense, please name them here so we can avoid them like the plague! | |||
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What a bunch of utter Bullshit, at least for a guided safari client. I'd never consider hunting with someone who'd do this. | |||
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AMEN! Mad Dog | |||
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A person in business for themselves can run their business however they want to. I can see where paying for a missed-shot might increase the thought that goes into every shot made. That in itself is a great idea. Missed shots as stated earlier were very common in the 1980s and before in eastern Europe. I think it is something that most folks would not agree with today. If the outfitter offered quality animals, good food, fair chase (at least in my mind) hunting, and was a nice guy to deal with I would probably put up with this. As I am he only one responsible for every shot I make, and I can't see me paying a lot in missed shot fees. | |||
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I'm also doing some research for a planned 2012 hunt and have seen two outfitters that charge for missed shots. I moved right past them without another thought. There are too many good outfitters out there to even consider such nonsense. | |||
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I have never heard of any operator doing this. Could you please post the names of those you have come across? They should be named and shamed. | |||
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absolutely post them | |||
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I will post each one I find on this thread. Let's see how many there are. ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, duke of York ". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand Cogito ergo venor- KPete “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.” ― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations” | |||
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Likewise, I need to go back and look who they where. I think they had some good prices but missing shot charge turned me off. | |||
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As mentioned in the previous postings, this is becoming more prevelant with game ranches catering to local hunters. However, I have run across a few landowners that are trying the same trick with outfitter/PHs and their foreign clients. Frankly it is greed and I would not advocate supporting landowners that demand this. Another practice gaining ground is that landowners are wanting increasingly higher trophy fees, and where previously the outfitter/ph would be able to offset these fees by utilising or selling the meat and passing the savings on by way of better prices to clients, the landowner is demanding that the meat stays the property of the landowner. Some landowners will not even let the client have a taste of the animal he shoots unless the outfitter/ph buys some from him. Naturally those people are avoided where possible, but when greed takes hold...... Harris Safaris PO Box 853 Gillitts RSA 3603 www.southernafricansafaris.co.za https://www.facebook.com/pages...=aymt_homepage_panel "There is something about safari life that makes you forget all your sorrows and feel as if you had drunk half a bottle of champagne." - Karen Blixen, | |||
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Crocodiles are an exception. You pay the full trophy fee whether you miss or wound. Reason: If you miss, the croc immediately goes in the water. If you wound, the crocodile immediately goes in the water. So you can't tell a miss from a hit, is the theory. I didn't know this until after I killed my first and probably only croc. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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As others have said it is generally for local hunters to prevent trigger-happiness. Should not be relevant with a PH as the client should only shoot on instruction from said PH. In other words, the judgement on distance and ability is made by the PH and not the client. | |||
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500nitro: Those fools need to be named here as well. Once greed takes over there's no stopping it. I have jettisoned two PH's because greed was beginning to control our relationship. It was becoming more about the money they were making, than keeping me happy so I would book yet another hunt. I have no use for those types at all. As to the croc miss/wound fee theory, it's the same. A good PH will know that you hit the croc and where. The theory that he can't tell a miss from a hit is utter, unadulterated bullshit, and he ought not to be in the business if that's the case! | |||
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http://forums.accuratereloadin...781074511#7781074511 Attached is a previous thread we had here on AR involving hippos and crocs paying trophy fees. Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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This is all bull dung. Why should you accept paying for any animal due to a miss? That includes Croc & Hippo. This is the first time I've ever heard of this and those outfitters and PHs doing such should be outed here loudly and clearly. If your PH and/or the the game scout can't tell a miss from a hit on Croc, then neither are doing their job! It's that simple. And as to Hippo, everyone in viewing distance will know when you miss the brain as it is a mess to sort out. Indy - please ID who is charging for a miss on Croc. Anyone who goes along with this ridiculous policy is contributing to the degradation of African safari hunting and doesn't belong on the AR website. And I believe Saeed feels the same. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I would tell them to f off. | |||
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Wonder what Walter would say about this? | |||
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What a great way to discourage new hunters from taking up our sport. Hopefully bird hunting never gets wind of this. | |||
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quite the contrary,I feel ARers enjoy having such folks post here so they can be subject to abuse,judgement and condemnation for at least 5-15 pages...  | |||
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I have missed both a hippo and a croc, and I did NOT have to pay a trophy fee. One has to be hunting with a decent PH, who can clearly see that it was a clean miss. I feel this is another silly policy created by an outfitter who has no business conducting hunts. Whoever they are, they should be named. | |||
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 Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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There was a guy on AR called jagter or something like that from Witbank in RSA. Me and him had a huge dust up about 2006 or 2007 here on AR OR on another forum about this bullshit. I have not seen him post for many years. Maybe he can enlighten us on this if he still lurks, or maybe posts under another name now. I agree, name them guys. Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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I have a friend and PH from South Africa visiting with me as we speak. I showed him this post. He tells me that there are some ranch owners in RSA that will charge the PH for missed shots but has not heard of it being passed along to clients. He mentioned one preserve that has a game scout along with the client and PH. The game scout marks down any missed shots along with game taken. At the time the safari is settled with the landowner and PH, the PH is charged R200 ($35.00 us) for each missed shot. This is done to supposedly cut down on taking careless shots and excessive shooting. | |||
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One of the main complaints I hear from PH's about American clients is, they take too long to shoot. I believe the reason for this is #1 it taked a little while (especially 1st time safari clients) for us to recognize the animals. #2 we worry about making a bad shot. Ivan Carter talked about this in his thread a few weeks ago. He at least appreciates the pressure on the client. What will be next? A charge if we turn down an animal that doesn't meet our wishes after a stalk? I believe the only way for us as clients to prevent these extra charges is to refuse to book with these guys. P.S. I have been pressured to take 2 shots I wasn't comfortable with by ranchers, or PH's and both shots turned out bad. | |||
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Charging for a miss in my opinion, borders on nickel and diming of clients. | |||
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While it does stink, especially if the miss was due to an "act of God" type scenario such as a bad round or a impact to the scope, there must be a reason. I can't help but look on the flip side, what if the PH/operator had recently experienced a rash of bad clients that caused him to instill this fee. It does happen unfortunately. Some people will spend the money for the trip but not spend the necessary time behind the trigger yet expect their high dollar gun to do all the work for them when the time comes. I don't necessarily fault the operator but I more so wonder "why" or "what" their reasons were for going this route. You never know, that may be a fee that is left up to the descretion of the PH and could be negotiable and geared more to those that prove to be grossly unprepared. Just my .02 cents. | |||
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It was normal in East Europe countries, when it was absolutely necessary to get any western currency (Dollars, Deutch Marks, French Francs, Liras). It was applied only if there was some ministerial inspector or some local boss. Otherwise a tip and a hand shake was often the solution. bye Stefano Waidmannsheil | |||
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